What Do To If She Comes Looking For You Wearing Lingerie

One thing to be very careful of doing with your wife is to positively reward the sexual behavior you seek from her, and to negatively reward the sexual behavior you don’t wish to see. This sounds simple, but it’s very possible to totally screw the whole thing up accidentally if you are not being somewhat mindful of this basic point.
Here’s an example…
Mike has long complained that Cindy never initiates sex. Cindy says she wants sex and is happy to have sex when Mike suggests it, but “just doesn’t think of it”. Every so often the issue comes up and is rehashed and no progress is made. Occasionally Mike freezes Cindy out and waits for her to get horny and initiate, but after a couple weeks he folds and initiates anyway. Cindy knows Mike is angry after these freeze out periods and cries either during or right after the sex that breaks the freeze.
During a Saturday afternoon when their son is at a friends house, Cindy gets the thought in her head to actually have sex with Mike. Happy and proud of herself she seeks him out and makes a attempt to remove his belt and unbuckle his pants. Mike just says “what are you doing?” and brings his arm up defensively and fends her back off him. Cindy is badly hurt by this. Seven months later when Mike complains about her lack of initiating sex, Cindy just explodes on Mike and the D word is mentioned in her ranting.
So here’s the deal…
If you’re asking for something in particular sexually and you get it, make sure you accept it and acknowledge that you got it.
That being said, the best form of positive reward you can give, is not usually your spoken praise – that can sound awfully silted and can draw attention to the fact that you are actively trying to positively reward her. The best reward is simply you obviously enjoying what it is she is doing. You don’t have to turn into a screamer, but you certainly should at least turn into a moaner and groaner. Try a heart felt “mmmmmm” or two. “That’s so fucking good”, “I want this to last forever”, “you’re amazing”.
Basically when she is acting sexy the way you want her to be, don’t withdraw from her, lean into it and let her know you’re turned on and follow through on the impulse. The correct way to frame it is not that you like that she is doing what you have asked, but that she is inherently sexy and you are turned on. You want her to feel sexy and if she doesn’t have the self-image of being a sexy woman (if only with you), you very much want that to develop.
The right time to follow up with “verbalized praise” is the next day. Remember in the act itself, you were so into the moment of her you could hardly think, the next day you can think. Text her something “you were amazing last night”, “I can’t stop thinking about you”, “Ok I give up where did you learn XYZ I’m hard again thinking about it”.
In terms of negatively rewarding sexual behavior you don’t want, (i.e. not getting any) the best response is again obviously not reacting overtly negative towards her. Don’t become angry, frustrated, insulting, bad tempered, grumpy, sullen or otherwise freeze her out. All that drama can be quite reinforcing in that you are proving to her that she has power over you to affect you. If she declines sex and you have a temper tantrum, not only is it childish, but you turn her into someone that can make you have a tantrum. The best approach is simply to minimize attention to what you don’t want, and to continue on with your day.
Again, be careful not to frame it as “Please pay attention to the way I am minimizing attention to what I didn’t want to see”, but simply that you weren’t going to do XYZ with her, so you were just going to go ahead and do ABC. If she wants to tag along with ABC she can, but you intend to do it regardless. It’s just a natural consequence of her not wanting to be with you.
So if she declines sex to you, it’s no big deal to you. Maybe you’ll just go to sleep, maybe you’ll ask her to cuddle with you as you masturbate, maybe you’ll just stay up and play computer games, or watch a little porn and masturbate. On a case by case basis, it’s all no biggie.
Over the long term though, constant denial does very much become a biggie. So outside of the bedroom it can be something that is mentioned once in a while. Again, work hard to not frame it in anger or that she is trying to do something wrong, frustration and disappointment is a better angle. Long term though, (as in over months and years) you gain the most leverage by self-improvement rather that complaint. What you do is vastly more powerful than anything you say.
It’s one thing to be in a low sex marriage and complain about it and argue why you need more sex and how you are frustrated by it and slam a few doors. It’s entirely another matter to be in a low sex marriage and say “you understand this is something I need right” and just start pumping iron, dressing better and go get your teeth whitened.
And for goodness sake… if she ever comes looking for you wearing lingerie… THAT’S HER INITATING SEX DUMBASS. Sorry for yelling, just I know some guys need to be told ;-)

Comments

  1. Bullseye, thanks. I see how this frame applies to my overall affection issues also.

    Men have this impulse to fix something that's broken right now. Pull out the hammer and swing it. Make it bend to our will. But this praise/reward approach requires patience. I know I have been guilty of complaining even though I knew it was the wrong approach, but I was driven by frustration. Good advice. I will strive to maintain this frame.

    Our hammer is inner game and free weights.

  2. Well said. It's not productive to rant and rave, as that seems to do more harm than good. Funny how I manage to use this same approach with my three year old's behavior, but it becomes tougher when dealing with sex and my wife.

    I think it's important than when you do have sex, that you make it good sex. It's too easy to get into the married roll on/pump/roll off variety, and that's not helping her want it more.

  3. Wicked Shawn says:

    Ummm, the total focus should always be on bringing your very best sex game forward when the sex is on. Always. My vagina just cried a little when I read that whole "roll on/pump/roll off" thing. Egad.

    Athol, sweets, you and I have this whole manipulation issue. See my post from last night. I advise against it, your entire world revolves around it. I understand your reasoning. Alas, I have such a problem grasping the need. Help me my dear sweet gentlemen, to understand how you got here. To this place where you have wives who refuse to give up the goods. Who have lost that loving tingle when you walk out of the shower clad in just a towel. I am lost. Are you still in love with these women, or are you in love with the idea of these marraiges and therefore trying very hard to keep the sex at home?

  4. Oh it is unquestionably easier to do this with a kid than an adult, and you are so bound to your wife, it is very difficult indeed to do this with her and maintain in this mindset. It takes a great deal of self-discipline to not get sucked into an emotional state and stay mindful of your long term goals.

    Shawn you have great questions, but I'm afraid you don't understand how many men are very much in love with their wives, but the wife simply is no longer sexually interested in them. The majority of men experience the love of their wife through sex with her. We don't get emotionally mushy over hallmark cards for example, we do get mushy over looks of lust and lingerie et al.

    Men do want sex of course, but without it we don't feel loved. And without those, marriage seems like a cruel joke.

    Is it manipulation? It can be and I won't shy away from saying that, but everything has an effect so you may as well be mindful than not. My wife is always my first reader here, so I'm giving away all my plans as we go, so on a personal level I'm sucking as an evil genius ;-)

    I believe many men get divorced by their wives against their wishes, and that the divorce would have possibly been averted, and the couple regained happiness with each other, with the right application of relationship knowledge. When kids are involved as well, I also think if a marriage can be saved and made happy by a little gaming, that's a tremendous thing.

    Right now I am more deeply in love with my wife than I have ever been before now.

  5. Anonymous says:

    Wicked, if you ever read this, I've given a lot of thought to your question for years and years. I met my wife many years ago, and when she was my girlfriend sex and thus all the rest of the relationship was fine. We lived together, "in sin" as my mother said, for over five years. I resisted marriage because I'd seen far too many happy couples turn into something very different after marriage. Old joke: there are many aphrodesiacs, what food is guaranteed to totally kill a woman's sex drive? Answer: Wedding cake.

    But to my surprise, our lives continued on after marriage the same. When she got into her mid 30's she became quite frisky in bed. Then we got her pregnant, and things began to change. Her father died, she got pregnant with our second, and that was that.

    She refused any sex, any touch except for a sisterly hug, for about 6 – 8 months during the time of the birth of our second child and her father's decline into death. Ok, I gave her slack. I gave her a lot of slack. But finally, when she agreed to do it again, she was just not into it. Any expression of affection more than a peck on the cheek clearly embarrassed her. No more afternoon romps, even when the children were miles away at a friends house she just was embarrassed, using sarcastic language "Ok, ROMEO, go ahead" and so forth.

    There are still things that we did before children that she won't do now. I tried to just be sensual with her after her father died – just lotion on the back, that sort of thing – and she burst into tears and left the room. Well, ok, I didn't try that again. She still refuses it, nearly 9 years later.

    Sex with her is like masturbation. In fact, it's worse than masturbation. She just lies there, inert in missionary, or on her side. Once or twice a year she'll do a half-hearted cowgirl, but not for long. Once or twice a year she'll half-heartedly try oral on me. She refuses oral on her, passively; when I try, she will pull on my head to put me into missionary. She's never actually asked if I'm done yet, but her body language says it from time to time. Before children, I could and did touch all of her body. After children, large swathes of her anatomy went off limits — I mean, grab my hand and push it away off limits. She won't let me see her naked anymore, except by accident. Sure, she put on some pounds, but that doesn't really bug me. I can't convince her of that.

  6. Anonymous says:

    Now for the second part.

    Every couple of years, usually on a trip, she'll come alive seemingly out of nowhere. I can't predict this; sometimes it's on a trip with the children but they are in a separate bedroom, sometimes it is at home. But out of the blue, she'll initiate things in a half hearted manner. The problem is, Athol, she's also cock teased me for years, so I have a hard time responding because in the back of my head I'm wondering if it's another "set up" for disappointment.

    There's something we did on a trip years before children, doesn't matter what. She knows I like it, a lot. We've never done it since then. But starting back in 1998, every couple of years, she starts that thing up. She sets the scene. She initiates the action. And when I'm clearly, obviously very, very aroused — she stops, and basically lays back, offering me the same old missionary position, get it over with sex. This is not just sexually frustrating, it's emotionally frustrating as well, because first of all she never did this before we had children, and second of all one of the few rules I laid on her when we were dating was "Don't start something you are not prepared to go through with". It makes me angry. I have a lot of anger nowadays, because although I have basically put up with this for years, I also blocked it from my mind. Just about this time last year, I began wondering about her, and started remembering stuff. I have over 10 years of things I'm angry about, stuff I should have challenged at the time. If I bring it up now, of course she'll just claim not to remember it.

    So if she showed up in a nighty, fat chance, my first thought would be "She's going to turn me on, and then do her best to turn me off. So since that's her plan, why should I bother?". Yes, there's an element of cutting off my nose to spite my face, but damn it, I can take her to the exact spot where she has cock teased me horribly — and I even did take her to one of them just as an experiment, she was pissy and annoyed the whole time we were at that place. So I think she does remember some of what she's done, she just isn't ever going to admit it — because that would mean she'd have to admit she did something wrong, and even cruel.

    Now, maybe you wonder if I'm failing to respond. Yeah, because she's taught me to. For the last 4-5 years every time we do anything physical that I like, if I respond, she quits immediately. Not just sex. A few weeks back, I got her to scratch my back while we watched TV (children in bed, naturally, can't allow children to see parents touch each other). She hit a good spot, and involuntarily I said "ooh!". Immediately, that second, she moved her hand far away to a different part of my back. Same thing in bed. On those rare occasions when she does anything I like, if I make the slightest noise she stops, if I remain silent she'll do it a little while longer. Before children she knew some of my good spots and went to them on a regular basis. Now, forget it.

  7. Anonymous says:

    Third part.

    My wife works. So do I. She's made more money than I do for a while, now. After childbirth, I rearranged my work schedule to stay home with the first newborn; it had to be done that way, because my schedule was flexible and hers was not. So I actually spent more time in the first year with that child than my wife did. She picked some strange arguments that year, now I think that she was insecure, or I was too beta, or something. We had to hire college women to stay with the second one, that job schedule was much less flexible. My commute is about an hour, so sometimes I'm gone 10 – 12 hours / day. Even with that, I found my sex drive increased after each child was born, right at the moment my wife refused all sex. I have never had an affair, although the temptation has been really serious.

    Years ago, before children, I was around a lot of new college graduates. More than once I had 20-something women heavily flirt with me; one came right out and told me she was getting married soon, but still available. One of the ways I kept myself away from them was to remind myself that there was nothing, but nothing, those gals would do in bed that my sweety wouldn't do, and she'd do it better. Well, after the first child, that defense went out the window.

    I'm older, don't get as many offers as I used to, but I could still have an affair right now if I wanted to. As tempting as that might be, it's not what I want. I want my wife back. But I'm stuck with a businesswoman who argued with me about using her damned Blackberry in the bedroom (I won, she doesn't do that, she does it in the kitchen). I'm stuck with a momlady who seems to regard sex with me as a nuisance on a par with cleaning the bathroom. The only topics of conversation as a rule are her work, our children, maybe a little of my work, family once in a while. That's it. We used to talk about all kinds of stuff. No more. When I try to steer the conversation to something else, she brings it right back. I don't think it's deliberate, that's all she can think about now. I don't know how to get her to think about anything else, have tried it and she either gets snippy, or freezes up and won't talk, just sits on the couch with her arms across her chest in a defense posture.

  8. Anonymous says:

    Last part.

    It didn't help that she got offered a promotion a few years back that brought more money into the household but a lot more stress as well. She's been harder to live with than ever for a couple of years; short tempered, often cranky over things in the house. She wants to quit, but also wants to make the money. It's like she's married to her job and to the children; those are the two things that matter most to her now as far as I can tell.

    So Wicked, if you figure it out, tell me. I want to know how a woman who is uninhibited, spontaneous, willing to initiate sex, comfortable with her own body, game for any sexual notion that doesn't involve other people or animals can turn into a momlady who compresses all physical affection of any sort into one and only one approved act, that may not occur before 10:00 PM or after 11:00 PM, that must be in a bedroom with closed door and lights off, in a bed with the covers up, that shouldn't last more than 3 minutes.

    You figure that out, I'll pay you a reward. Sorry for going on at length.

  9. Athol Kay says:

    Hi Anon – thanks for your long comments. I think what you are writing about is exactly the sort of question I am trying to answer on this blog.

  10. Athol,

    Very interesting blog. Not sure if you read back this far but I'd appreciate your comment (or a referral to a later article addressing this – I'm reading from beginning to end)

    You wrote
    "So if she declines sex to you, it’s no big deal to you. Maybe you’ll just […] watch a little porn and masturbate. On a case by case basis, it’s all no biggie."

    Except when you wife disapproves of porn :) She believes it is, in essence, cheating.

    -philip

  11. Athol Kay says:

    If she's a chronicly disinterested in sex, then this is just a way to control you and keep her utterly dependant on you. She's going to get seriously pissed off if you go to "another supplier of sex." But I think you just go ahead and do it anyway (assuming you're not a lower sex rank than her)

    In that case the person who is cheating in the relationship is her. The agreement was that you have a sexual relationship. You're just trying to cope with her cheating you out of the marriage you were agreeing to.

    If this is just a once in a while thing, maybe not so much of a fuss about it.

    Generally though – she has first refusal, but if she declines I don't think it's any of her business how you masturbate.

  12. Heres an area where i have completely failed. I’ve always had a lingerie fetish, since my masturbation aids in high school were my stepmom’s Victoria’s Secret catalogs. Bra and panties got boring by age 16. I pushed way too hard for the corsets, stockings, garters etc. She would buy them with me but never wear them and would tell me she would never wear them when we would fight. When she bought some pink and black matching underwear and bra, I totally blew it. I told her she’d get just as much excitement out of me from some white fruit of the looms (i dont know why i love white but white pwns all other colors to me.) “A bra and panties is the same as all other bras and panties to me”. I’d have to try pretty damn hard to screw that up worse. I should have rewarded her for the “effort and coaxed her along which would have been much better than the corset sitting in her drawer unused for 6 years. Baby steps toward the goal. This is my “fitness test” for Athol’s method. Can i generate enough attraction to get her to actually wear the stuff we bought?

  13. petticoat says:

    Where to start? I could write a thesis on this.
    Lack of libido in mothers.
    Anonymous, your wife’s story is mine. After 3 kids i just wasn’t interested. Permanently knackered, overweight from pregnancy, felt completely unsexy. His approach was a fumble under the duvet. I went thought the motions for years. Never did he tell me I was desirable, that he still fancied me, that I was sexy. A far as I was concerned it was an alternative to masturbation (for him).
    Then I was ill, lost a stone and a half, in fact I was too thin by then. I had to buy new underwear and the more I bought the sexier it became. It was like I was waiting for permission to become a woman again. He let me indulge my lingerie obsession, after all he benefited and simultaneously I discovered erotic fiction (way before FSoG). Don’t underestimate the power of a good erotic novel written by a woman for women!
    The problem is now he can’t keep up with my demands.
    So my advice would be to look at why your wife doesn’t want sex. One of my reasons was not finding him attractive any more. One was my self-esteem, my own view of my body. One was kids and tiredness. There may be many reasons but the one thing you can do is make her feel like a woman, a real woman not a mother, wife etc but a desirable woman (maybe you already do that, you can still work at it though).
    And x1134x – what lingerie does she wear now? Buy something a little more sexy, tell her how fantastic she would look in it, make her feel desired. Then ask her what else you could buy for her, what would she like. As you say, baby steps.
    Hope my ramblings may have helped in some way.

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