10 Critical Things In How To Choose A Wife

Quick disclaimer, I’m basically describing my own wife here. So your mileage may vary. I will say that I am remarkably happy with Jennifer and that her personality and presence is a huge factor in my happiness and the level of sex that we have. Also at the time of getting involved with her, I really only had a few of these rules in my head as rules, so I really do see myself as being quite lucky in what me at 21 years old signed me up for me back in 1991.
Also this post is assuming that by wife, I really mean a one and done marriage option to a young woman with intent for kids together and lasting for 50+ years hand in hand into the sunset of death do us part. I’m not worried about remarriage, or middle aged couples or whatever. I’m talking fertile kids starting the rest of their life together.
The basic problem is that most men do not go looking for a wife. They start looking for a date, and then try and turn the date into more dates, then the dates into a girlfriend, then a girlfriend into a relationship, and then and only then worry about whether or not to bridge the relationship into marriage. Of course by then you may be realizing you’ve been backing the wrong horse as what was great for a few dates (that would be tits, ass and easy pussy) isn’t the best or only thing for a lifetime together.
If you’re really looking for a wife, kids, the PTA, ER visits, Thanksgiving Dinners, a joint bank account and someone who will hold your hand until the last minute as they push your bed into surgery, then you need to start with that somewhat in mind. By all means date around, but when you start to see major red flags, just stop dating them and move on. If you’re dating within any sort of coherent social group and you are passing on women because you are “looking for a woman with wife material” that will likely make all the women in that group at least consider you.
The truth is that men willing to commit to a woman in this day and age are in short short supply, and your value is high. You can afford to be a little picker than you think. Here’s my list of criteria;
1. No Smoking. Basically it’s a nasty habit but it’s also a serious health risk. The woman that smokes will age much faster and become much less sexy over time. Also you risk lower weight babies and birth defects if she can’t stop during pregnancy. Also importantly people that smoke just smell so powerfully bad that it overrides even their own sense of smell and much of sexual attraction is smell based. Imagine your wife can’t even smell your pheromones over the smell of her own cigarettes, how is she going to react to you sexually? Badly that’s how. Plus people that smoke just die earlier. If you’re signing up for 50+ years together with a non-smoker, it’s really like 35+ years with a smoker with the last 5-10 years being them dying by degrees in front of you, and then you living alone and sad as your kick off to retirement. I know this seems harsh, but as soon as you see a woman light up a cigarette just cross her off the list and move on.
2. B Cup Breasts. Overall the potential wife needs to be attractive and good looking. After all you’re going to be looking at that face and ass for 50+ years, so she better be tasty as you can get. My basic handle on this is B Cup breasts. A young woman with B Cups is going to be proportional and in shape overall. After the kids those puppies are going to morph into C Cups and C Cups are absolutely perfect. Enough for a handful, they crush against your chest when you kiss just right, they fill out a shirt, cleavage gets activated and they don’t suffer from sagginess like D or larger does. Miss D Cup at 22 is Mrs. EE Cup at 42 and her back always hurts and she’s cranky from the pain half the month. Her ass is wide as well. Be advised.
3. Basic Health. If a young woman is on routine medications for various ailments, you need to ask some serious questions about her health. Find out about her health as a child. Find out about any special complications or difficulties when she was young. None of these are deal breakers or course, but if you find a history of basic illness you can bet that this will be the pattern into the future as well. It’s not the job of your marriage to save the world or even any one woman; it’s to have a full productive happy life. If you want to save people be a fireman or an EMT worker or something. So if she’s constantly sucking an inhaler when she’s 24, you can bet it will be worse at 34 and the kids will probably be much the same as well. You really have to ask serious questions about psych meds and diabetes if you see that sort of history too.
4. Positive Family History. Did she have a reasonably intact family home and childhood? If she’s from a divorced family then you will have a higher likelihood of divorce in your marriage to her. Again the purpose of your marriage is not to save a woman, it’s to have a happy productive life with someone. Is the rest of her family basically normal and generally free of mental illness, developmental disabilities, crime, cancer and drama? By all means make allowances for the few black sheep in every family, but a coherent bad pattern is a stumbling block. If meeting her family feels like a social worker visit just bail and start over.
5. She Has A Clue. I don’t care what it is that she does at college, or even if she doesn’t go, but either way she needs some sort of direction and purpose to her life that doesn’t really require you to be attached to her for her to have a life of her own that’s functional and productive. If the whole point of her life is simply to meet a man and be a Stay At Home Mom, that fine as long as she is displaying a top notch SAHM skill set already. I’m talking baked goods, knitting, cooking, child care, cleaning, decorating and social planning skills. Or put another way – would some rich ass family hire her as housekeeper/nanny for $40,000 a year? I want to see some sort of ability to hold a job and responsibilities together as an adult.
6. Virgin. You heard me. The fewer sexual partners a woman has before marriage the higher her marital satisfaction and the sexual satisfaction she has within marriage. You very much want your wife to sexually imprint on sex with you and completely bond to you. The sex is just going to be that much better over the long term. Not to mention no other ex-lovers lurking on Facebook, sexual diseases, bad experiences and regrets to worry about. The harsh truth to the modern hook up girl is that yes indeed every time you sleep with another man, you damage your long term wife potential. Plus the best predicator of future behavior is past behavior and highly promiscuous women before marriage are probably far more likely to cheat on you during marriage.
For the record I also believe the man should ideally be a virgin too. I say this not from a current religious perspective – in my teens and early 20’s I was an evangelical Christian but am a quite firm atheist now – but simply from the perspective that while this was horribly hard in my time before Jennifer, the sexual payoff and trust between us is outstandingly good and on balance a significant part of our current happiness. I am laid like tile and have been for 15 years now.  However I will not lie and say it was anything other than torture at the time though.
Edit: I revisted this issue here.
7. Totally Into You Sexually. This is the counter point of sorts to the virgin one. By the time we were engaged, we pretty much ran roughshod over “the rules” about no sex before marriage. We were still each others first which is the essential point of the virgin thing, but so sexually activated on each other that we simply did not care what anyone else had to say or think on the matter. My worry about a woman not willing to flex in the engagement period, is that she is simply not sexually interested enough in her man, or has a very low libido. You do need to see obvious sexual interest and eagerness in her for you. You don’t want a multi partner slut, you do want a wife that is sexually activated on you though. Chemistry matters, it really really matters.
8. Can problem solve with tools other than emotion. If you’re running into excess drama over minor issues, and the woman using tears, anger or moodiness as a problem solving tool, this will not get better over time. Treat it like a shit test a few times, but if you find it keeps coming back at you again and again, just move on. Who wants to spend 50 years with a screechtard whose hobby is giving you a colonoscopy? You are not the Beta Male she is looking for.
9. Has a talent. Again this is one of those open things where I don’t care what the talent is. All you need to see is that she has the willpower and interest to start something and master it. Maybe it’s a musical instrument, maybe it’s ice skating, maybe it’s knitting or gardening or soccer or whatever… it really doesn’t matter. She may very well move from talent to talent over the 50 years together, everything has a season, you just don’t want to get handcuffed to a couch potato that complains you never take her anywhere as her form of entertainment. She needs to provide some of her own stimulation and interest. You’ll find that you’ll probably share an interest or two over the years that just develops at some point. But if her idea of fun just involves nothing but sitting around eating and drinking at 25, don’t complain about being married to an angry slug at 45.
10. That thing that you really need from a life partner. There’s something that you as a man really need from your woman that you can’t flinch on. Maybe you’re all about politics and are a dyed in the wool Republican and intend to seek office – it probably helps if she is Republican too. Maybe you’re Jewish and you just really want a Kosher home – maybe she should be Jewish too. Maybe you’re a military guy and will be deployed often – it really helps if she can tolerate being apart and knows what she’s getting into.
See whatever it is that you’re about, if you’re compromising yourself to have her in your life, it’s never going to work. The idea is not trying to have some sort of 50/50 relationship and fairness and equality, the idea is that you have that thing that you can’t frakking flinch on that she gets you’re about. Then you cut her a lot of frakking slack on everything else that you don’t really care about.
If you’re a man of any worth, you’re a man about something. It really helps a great deal if she can be on board with that.
(And incidentally… all those ten points can just as easily apply to what a woman should look for in a husband. For B Cups think physical fitness lol.)

Comments

  1. 6. Virgin. You heard me.

    I'm assuming hyperbole here. Keep in mind that today's marriageable kids didn't grow up in the 70s and 80s like us; they are growing up now, immersed in sex. (Whereas I would say we were lightly dipped or dunked.) Having a boyfriend or two in her student years and losing her virginity would certainly not disqualify a woman in my book. Today's pretty, young, American women (7s and up, maybe even 6s) would have to be total prudes, or very religious, or extremely picky in some way, to make it into their 20s as virgins.

    I would restate it as:
    6. No history of casual sex.

    Stated that way, I couldn't agree more. That said, I was the boyfriend who my wife had in her student years, and damn did we have some fun with that.

  2. rosiewiklund says:

    Ah Athol. I know you mean well, but this one sort of sucked. Here is three hoping my husband hasn't settled too much for a petite lady with DDs and a history in foster care. I'm emotionally sound, in touch with my sister, and intend to have my breasts fully removed if they get any larger. Look forward to seeing your posts for the ladies, especially the sort that don't make me question my marriage-ability, Butthead. ;)
    Men folk, he has a point all flash and no substance won't age well. Look for someone you could really love.. even if their breasts look like deflated skin balloons later.

  3. Wicked Shawn says:

    *sigh* You know my opinion on posts such as these, in general. I realize guys ask you this stuff. But your willingness to cave and give them this bullshit list instead of telling them the truth, which is simply that there is no list of traits you get to check off, set sail and look for to find that perfect mate. It simply doesn't work that way. Well, it disappoints me. So, now, when some guy falls in love with a girl who is not a virgin, has maybe had 3 sexual partners, but the 2 of them are in their 30's, does he hesitate to marry her because he remembers your advice. Where does this leave him? How do you feel about that? Are you comfortable with that? Because as a man who has been happily married for years, I would think you know there are many factors to a marraige and someone who is so disconnected from the fundamentals that they are seeking this sort of list, they are truly not in touch with those fundamentals. Those are the people who are likely to pass up that one true chance because there was a box left unchecked.

  4. Athol Kay says:

    Shawn – I thought I was clear that I was talking about young people getting married with a clear intent to plunge into babymaking. What you'll be looking for from a 30+ woman is similar but not exactly the same.

    Rosie – Yeah I know this is a harsh post. Sexual selection is quite brutal when spelled out like this. The fact is though 98% of young men only think of one thing when it comes to a woman T&A. I'm hoping that this post opens up a few eyes to the thoughts that you marry not so much for style, but also substance.

    Coyote – Yeah this is a very hard one. The basic princple though is be as first for each other as you can be. There is a commitment to the idea of marriage you hope to see before hand. Points 6 and 7 are in dynamic tension…

  5. I think you got it Athol Kay. Guys need to be reminded sometimes that it's more than T&A, and you covered the bases on this one.

    If I was giving the advice, I'd suggest treating the list as warning signs. Broken home, promiscuity, aimless, etc.; these are all things that should give a guy pause.

    We've all seen people get married to someone they shouldn't, not reading the signs that were all there from the beginning.

  6. I would recommend looking at your potential wife's mother when making a decision. It doesn't matter what your wife looks like when you marry her, she WILL turn into her mother. She will spend a greater portion of your married life looking like her mother than she will looking like your bride. If she comes from a genetic line that never looses the pregnancy weight, you should know that going into the marriage.

    Most men turn into their fathers too, it just takes longer. Women can make the transformation in one year (the one when they're pregnant).

  7. Athol Kay says:

    I'm not really prepared to discuss my mother in laws weight on the blog :-)

  8. Anonymous says:

    Let's not forget the author prefaced his list with the goal of finding a life partner and raising a passel of kids. While YOUNG. It's a great list, although not particularily well suited for the "modern woman" who is mostly interested in career and casual sex during her 20's and 30's.

    THAT woman is largely unmarriable by 30 to any but the most desperate and beta man. It may not be fair, but it is a reality. Sorry ladies, but just sniffing "double standard, unfair" dosen't make it any less true.

  9. Athol Kay says:

    Yes it is very important to note that this article was aimed at younger people marrying each other aimed at a long marriage and kids together. If you're going to go the kids route, I really believe it's best to do that while you're both in your 20's.

    Having kids after the woman is age 30 isn't impossible of course, just less and less likely and you risk so much more with pregnancies and birth defects.

  10. Willy Wonka says:

    I like this post, definitely a very solid list. The only qualm I have is #6. As a 23 year old man with over a dozen sexual partners, it would seem a bit rash to only look for a virgin when I intend to find the right mate. That'd be kind of hypocritical, so to speak. Also, it's not entirely necessary, after dating a woman for a short period of time and getting to know her friends and how her friends date you can find out pretty quickly how prone she is to monogamous relationships. For the record, I just see #6 as damn near impossible as I've never dated a virgin, and actually can't even think of the last time I met one.

    So, all out virginity is not at all on my list, but a few things I would put in place of that that could somewhat tell the story would be basically what you have at #4, family history – if her parents stayed together and weren't adulterous, that's a solid start right there. Also, when she lost her virginity – I'd rather marry a girl who lost her virginity when she was 20 to her college boyfriend, than one who lost it when she was 13. Matter of fact, if she lost her virginity before she was 16 – she's not marriage material – scratch her off the list and move on.

  11. Anonymous says:

    2 or 3, OK. But what if you fell in love with the girl who's had 60+ partners?

  12. Anonymous says:

    Yes, only marry a virgin, if you want a woman who will be able to bond with you.

    And by virgin, I mean no sexual contact of any kind with anybody. (For you sluts out there, that means no blow jobs, or anal sex or sticking your tongue in some girls cunt.)

    If you won't buy a used mattress, why would you accept a used woman?

    And for all the women who whine that men are not being penalized for casual sex: 1)why that is so is explained on most blogs for men, and 2) why don't you raise your standards?

    (And by raising your standards, I don't mean becoming the 50th ho of a bigger thug.)

  13. Athol Kay says:

    Hi Willy Wonka,

    yes I get the difficulty factor here in finding someone fairly untouched in this day and age. As I say my ideal is both partners being virgins. It's an ideal.

    There is real science that suggests women are happier with their marriage and sex life the fewer partners they have. I'm just saying if you want to be married to that sort of woman, you'll be better off over the long term.

    There is real bonding that happens with sex. Dr Helen Fisher says there is no such thing as casual sex, there's always a biological bonding reaction at work on some level. I believe the ability to fully sexually bond with a marriage partner can be damaged by casual sex.

    If nothing else, I sleep easier knowing my wife doesn't have 12 old boyfriends she screwed trying to stay in touch with her on Facebook.

    Though don't think for a minute I don't understand the whole idea of staying a virgin et al isn't enormously difficult and painful. I really get it.

  14. Athol, thanks for laying it on the line, for not caving-in, for not pulling punches with this post. Your list is spot-on. Just a few more I would add include…

    #11 Did she grow up with siblings and does she get along well with them? A woman (or man) who has successfully managed the give-and-take of brothers and sisters all living together in tight quarters stands a higher likelihood of successfully doing the same with you.

    #12 Does she treat her father with respect? How she respects her father is an indicator of how she'll respect you in 20 years.

    #13 Has she had to work? If she's had to work to support herself, two points. If she has worked AND gone to school at the same time, four points. If she has put herself entirely through school, double the above!

    #14 Does she manage her money well? Most important is if she pays off her credit card each month. If she's also gone so far as to have started an IRA (or at least knows what one is) hang onto her. No other decision will affect your own financial success than the decision of whom to marry. Quick check: does she wear items from her closet that she proudly found at the second-hand store? Yes!!

    Now to the commenters looking to make caveats on the virgin issue… It may be uncomfortable for you to hear personally, you might think it difficult to maintain in today's world, or you might no longer own the v-card yourself. But that doesn't change the facts. The many large sample studies are pretty consistent on this issue: The fewer one's sex partners prior to marriage, the lower one's risk of divorce and sexual frustrations later on. Athol's correct on this one.

    To the commenters denigrating the concept or attempt at such a marriage list in general… There will always be individual exceptions. Everyone is not the norm. A violation of some of the above doesn't doom you to matrimonial misery. But these exceptions don't disprove the central tendency: marriage relationships satisfying Athol's criteria stand a greater chance of success than ones that don't.

    Think of it like a horse race. Sure the horse with a bad history, weak legs, or inexperienced jockey *can* win the race. But which horse do you really want to put your money behind?

  15. Athol Kay says:

    Thanks MNL on backing me up on the virgin thing. I knew I was going to get heat on that one and aren't fazed by it. It's just the science behind it that I'm focusing on. And yes if I say it a hundred times – I really understand the need for sex and neither myself or my wife are prudes about it. (Jen is fairly shy, but not with me behind closed doors)

    I actually thought people would be up in arms about the smoking thing. But apparently not.

    And again – this is aimed at younger people looking for a one and done marriage. Obviously if you're 35+ and up for round two you aren't getting a virgin or likely anything near one.

  16. I'm surprised no one has mentioned #2: B Cup Breasts. If someone's overweight, that implies something about their self-discipline. Breast size isn't something a (not overweight) girl can control. Responsibility with money management seems much more important to the success of a marriage (I'm a teenager so no personal experience there). Yet breast size makes the list and financial common sense doesn't.
    Athol, you may be a bit outdated in regards to virginity. Casual sex is a bad omen; lack of virginity is not so surprising. My parents began offering birth control pills to me when I was ten. Nothing wrong with a girl who isn't a virgin due to a couple past long term boyfriends.

  17. Athol Kay says:

    Oh I understand a woman doesn't have over much control over breast size, I personally just look for the ones that will still be appealing when she is 60+.

    I'd include money management as part of #5 "has a clue".

    Yes I am well aware I'm outdated on virginity. That being said the science tends to show a women is the happiest in marriage and will her sex life in marriage the fewer lifetime partners she has.

  18. Anonymous says:

    One thing comes to my mind about studies.

    They are all based on couples married for decades already. Otherwise wouldn't mean much.

    So to give advice to some one today you would have to know future figures.

    I'd say virginity is one of those points.

    So much for the statistics.

    But I totally agree it is a good thing to take your time and ask your self what the life you wan't to live should look like and who might be the best spouse on that journey.

    Btw:
    I just recently spotted your blog and it is refreshing and help full. Having to many thoughts about my current relationship in mind it helps to get a frankly perspective.

  19. arctic_front says:

    Loved the list. I disagree with some of it but can see the merit you give it for your reasons for giving it. Young folks starting off life together. How sweet. How utterly stupid too. I',m not trying to be a despoiler, but holy cow, Dude, have you spent much time around young people?

    They are so totally not ready to commit to a double latte or one with low-far milk. They have no clue. We've raised our kids to be total morons. I have a 22 and a 15 yr old daughter(s) and both I wouldn't loan $50 to. its not that they are bad kids, but they have no sense of what being grown-up or being responsible is. maybe at 30, MAYBE, they could be intelligent enough to make a decision like marriage , but before then? they have been so dumbed-down by the education system, they have not a hint of a clue.

    As for the virgin thing… I get where your coming from.. I really do. I'm old enough to say I've had a few. But really, I've been around the block a time or tewo, and so had my wife… but (luckily for me) I rocked her world right out of orbit and so the 'previous' men in her life are not threatening to me…and she rocks my orbit just as much. So absolutes are not really appropriates…and young kids getting married, as per my opening statements, are included. I'm sure some young 20-somethings will make 50 yrs together… but honestly,… its very unlikely. Sad, but true.

    However I really like this blog, as i just found it tonight… but ya, you habve a good insight to a lot of guys should be tuning into. Relationships are hard. we always have to work on them. its a never finished job.

    peace Bro and keep up the good work.

  20. virgin + healthy + mentally stable? calculating…
    calculating…
    calculating…

    Congratulations! The pool of potential brides has been narrowed down to three candidates around the world, living on different continents.

  21. Athol Kay says:

    Oh I completely agree this list is no easy thing, but there are more than three women out there that would meet the criteria.

  22. Martian Bachelor says:

    Can you please name them for Xamuel and me, or at least tell us where they are?

    I'm probably older than you (but better looking, and certainly wealthier too!), and have yet to meet even one who gets about half of the ten checkmarks.

    IOW, this is real pie-in-the-sky stuff IMO, even if you whittle it down to the six or seven that really matter the most to you.

    Maybe I just live in a really crappy place (aka America). Better conditions for women was supposed to give us better quality women. WTF happened?

  23. Athol Kay says:

    "Better conditions for women was supposed to give us better quality women. WTF happened?"

    Sadly too true.

  24. Anonymous says:

    This article is the funniest thing I've read…today. lol

  25. "Better conditions for women was supposed to give us better quality women. WTF happened?"

    Maybe you're holding us to the old standards that no longer apply? Or just think of it this way – men still hold all the keys, yet so many have so little to offer. How does that work?

  26. Athol Kay says:

    Men that don't care about the old standards find themselves in divorce court with a much higher frequency.

    Men offer so little because the "new standards girls" give it up so easily. Why would a man offer a lifetime of love and committment, and positive attention and care, when pretty girls give up pussy for shots and planning ignoring.

  27. By that logic, women offer so little because men give it up so easily. Why would a woman offer a lifetime of love and commitment, positive attention and care, when men give it up for some cleavage and attention at any meat market bar on 6th ave?

    It's much easier to slut shame sexually active women (who obviously aren't looking for marriage) than to admit that in this age of equality, women want to be treated as partners. Women are the majority of the workforce and are graduating at a faster rate than men and are more independent than ever before. If these are not better quality women, then you are holding women to old standards that no longer apply. We do not have or not have sex for men's approval – but because we want to. The men who don't understand this divorce at a much higher frequency. Independent women have no time for such drivel.

  28. Athol Kay says:

    Missdk there is no requirement that you marry. I'm simply saying what makes a woman attractive to a man as a wife and makes a good long term bet for happiness and good sex.

    Marriage itself is an old standard.

  29. I don't know if I agree with "Positive Family History" so much. I don't think you should judge people on their family but what they make of themselves. I think strength of character is so much more important. My best friend's mother had a severe mental illness and she is one of the loveliest, most mature, successful (in marriage and in life) people that I know. When I have a problem she is the first person I call because I think her experience growing up actually made her into a better more understanding person. She even says so herself. I think if her husband had cancelled her out because of her family history he would have missed out on a wonderful life mate.

  30. If they can pull themselves out of the rubble of a crappy family – sure.

    Unfortunately I get many emails from men married to women badly damaged by their childhoods. It's much harder to make headway with those couples. Much much harder.

  31. Hi Athol

    I'm a woman in my early twenties married to my first and only sexual partner whom i have an 11 month baby with.

    Your blog made me laugh out aloud at how accurate your 10 points are! You are so right about the breast sizes ! Further, i would like to add that i am very attractive and receive substantial amounts of male attention to which I can honestly say i have no interest for because i feel very bonded to my husband. I don't think i mainly feel like this because of the virgin thing, but because i love him for who he is. So to the men out there, embace your alpha domineering masculine energies because that is what real women want.

    i have gone to law school, run my own business and also raise our baby girl but that doesn't stop me from being 'submissive' to my husband. I love it when he commands, leads and takes charge. its extremely sexy.

  32. Hi Penelope, glad you liked it. The virgin thing means that you don't have a lurking emotional connection to an ex-boyfriend waiting to blow up on your husband via Facebook 12 years from now.

    If you doubt that it matters and is special to your husband, ask him… :-)

    You sound wonderful btw.

  33. Ex boyfriend of 14 years ago contacted me via Facebook (message, I didn't accept him on my friends list) and I met up with him a couple of times. We were very close back then, first serious relationship and couldhave easily ended up in marriage..but now whilst it was nice seeing what he is like now, it's like it all happened to someone else, I don't feel bonded to him at all.

    Lily

  34. Yeah but you met him… if sparks had flown then what?

  35. ;-) I wouldn't have met him if I were married at the time or in a serious relationship.

  36. But many people do unfortunately. Facebook is cited as a cause in something like 20% of all divorces nowdays.

  37. Athol,

    I am 35 years old and tried to use my life experience and male intuition do my own '10 critical things…'. Then I found your post.

    One true observation: As women get older harder, for men, to find marriageable material.

  38. Great List one exception no 6 Virgin. My wife was 10/10 on your list including No 6 in todays world keep it if you want but don't have it forced on you as it can cause problems

  39. Anonymous says:

    Now imagine the kind of man YOU would have to be to score that chick! Certainly not one who would be making such an idiotic list.

  40. Anonymous says:

    Wow… reading some more of these comments made me decide this blog is not for me. Have fun in the parallel world, people.
    Penelope, good luck. I sincerely hope HE doesn't blow you for an old girlfriend via Facebook. You sound wonderful to have YOUR life blown from under your feet when he decides he's bored. Take charge of your life. Things change, you know.

  41. Anonymous says:

    Athol,

    What a great list. I'm a mid-20's man who discovered the "manosphere" just a few months ago, and I'm particularly found of the Christian flavor that you and a few other espouse.

    My long-term girlfriend is a either a 9/10 or a 10/10 on the list (not too sure about #2). They exist, and you don't have to be superhuman to get one.

    And for those scoffing at #6, if you go to church – a serious one, not a fluffy Jesus-as-therapy one, you'll find plenty of young women who fulfill #6. It's some of the other ones that are hard.

  42. missdk – you keep talking about old standards but there is fundamental problem with this and every feminist canard. The men don't have to go along with them. Which is precisely what you're seeing now. How many men actually want to settle down and commit to you or any woman? You are all now interchangeable sex toys. And men, like women, have every right to express their sexuality the way they see fit.

    Men are taking advantage of a golden age of pussy – the age of the liberated, feminist woman who cuts off her nose to spite her face.

  43. Ha. Score. My wife is 10 out of 10.

  44. Anonymous says:

    Athol, I think you've done great with your list. Virginity may be more important to happiness in life than you suspect. It shouldn't be the "fewer sexual partners" before marriage but truly none. Granted fewer is better than more, but none is best. It may be difficult for a man over 35 to find a younger virgin, but it is testimony to how dysfunctional modern society is if it is indeed impossible or nearly so. Another case for virginity that I haven't seen mentioned is physical stretching. The more sex partners a woman has, the more likely she is to literally be a loose woman from having been stretched out of her natural tightness by a big man. I disagree that a woman over 30 is at substantial risk for a problem pregnancy or birth defects. Perhaps a slightly elevated risk but nothing worth worrying about. The greater risk is that she will have some fertility problem making it difficult or impossible to get pregnant. I also disagree a little about B cups. A cups or even flat are alright with me, but B cups are best.

  45. Anonymous says:

    After reading this, I feel sick. You people are shallow and unintelligible about dating and finding a mate. It is about the person, not about making a perfect society. Absolutely disgusting. Women should not be forced into being virgins and stop talking about them like they are cattle in the field. Oh yes, and passing over someone that was in a divorce? Do you have any idea how traumatic it really is, and you are going to use that over someone who had no say in it growing up? Wow, I can't wait to see how poorly your future partners treat you.

  46. Must have B-cups? Most women's bras have some padding or shaping material; therefore the only way you're going to be sure on this point is to actually get nekkid together and whip out your tape measure. And really, what kind of slut would allow such liberties; certainly not the sweet VIRGIN you want! Very good list overall, but #2 is a bit silly! (should we ladies demand no less than a 7 inch penis? the average peen size is around five'ish inches).

    That virgin issue: you boys just won't give up on this in theory, altho I believe most of you will not end up with this unicorn and in the end it won't matter to you once you accept reality. Perhaps would have been wiser to say: "reasonable sexual partner number." This applies to men as well as women; a shallow player who's had 30+ women by his late twenties would strike me as someone who's maybe not cut out for monogamy.

  47. ive just met one that ticks 9/10 nine of the ten boxes, only one boyfriend since sixteen.now 28 broken up a few months. Might have finally found one who s up to my standards to date. We ll just have to wait and see…….. Have to agree well educated, in shape, fun active, loaded, career focused, family orientated, marriagable men are in short supply.. but its also the same on the other side of the fence.

  48. pdwalker says:

    Great list.

    Quite a few of those (and some others) were in a list I was going to pass on to all my children.

  49. Anonymous says:

    I'm an 8/10. I do not have B-cups and I am not a virgin. My father's side of the family has well-endowed women, and I was raped as a freshman in college. Due to things beyond my control, I get a "B" grade at best on your list. However, I'm engaged to a wonderful man who accepts me as his future wife.

    "And by virgin, I mean no sexual contact of any kind with anybody. (For you sluts out there, that means no blow jobs, or anal sex or sticking your tongue in some girls cunt.)

    If you won't buy a used mattress, why would you accept a used woman?"

    I don't see myself as "used goods" because although I've been "used" I'm not an object to be admired, bought, and discarded. I'm not here to be "accepted" as though a man is doing me a service by marrying me. I'm not something to be bundled off or ashamed of, not am I a slut. Non-virgin =/= a slut.

    I would add a sense of humor to your list. Someone who can make you laugh and make your home life pleasant and enjoyable might be a better point than "B-cups". Just because I can breed doesn't mean I'm an animal. Why don't you check her dental records too?

  50. Athol Kay says:

    Actually the dental records thing is important. Had to shell out an awful lot of money on braces on my two daughters… and Jennifer had to have stuff redone as well.

  51. Anonymous says:

    So I suppose us A-cup ladies are destined to be single and childless, thanks to our genes, darn it. Guess I'll be preparing for a life of loneliness…

  52. Athol Kay says:

    Most men only have body shape as a criteria. 1 of my 10 points is about body shape. So I'm a shallow man?

    You already knew men respond to larger breasts anyway. Just make the best of what you have and stop whining about it. Don't waste the pretty.

  53. Anonymous says:

    Sorry, I was actually being a bit light-hearted about the breast size issue, attitude doesn't seem to convey well via typing :)

  54. Athol Kay says:

    Gotta throw the :-) out there then :-)

  55. Anonymous says:

    Awesome post! Gotta lay the truth out there. My wife met all but the virgin thing when I met her at age 20 and now 11 yrs and 2 daughters later we're still happy.

    Change virginity to no casual sex/reasonable number of partners and change has a clue to financial responsibility/wise spending. Now it's perfect!

  56. Athol Kay says:

    Anon – the drop off in marriage success chances and reported happiness of the wife is quite extreme though. Even a handful of other partners make a difference.

    I fleshed this post out much better into a chapter in the The Primer as well.

  57. Anonymous says:

    I dont know if I agree with you on the virgin thing. Well on the female side, only because I was a virgin and my husband of 14 years has cheated two times I know about. The last woman was a call girl I never turned him down when asked and I did everything he wanted. I never complained about not being sexually fulfilled which we women tend to do…I get stuck with all the kids while he runs around looking for sluts.

  58. '…. the science tends to show a women is the happiest in marriage and will her sex life in marriage the fewer lifetime partners she has '

    this is because if the guy she marries is not so good in bed (for whatever reason) she will have nothing to compare it to if she is a virgin. He may be terrible/selfish/lazy/whatever in bed but she wont know it. For her this will just be "sex" as she knows it.

    where as, if she sleeps with 5 guys before marriage and EVEN ONE is a cassanova expert in the sack (though not marriage material) it will ruin her marriage because she will *know* how good sex can be and that her husband does not perform as well.

    this is why men should seek out virgins, because sexual naivety = happy with what ever you give her.

  59. Anonymous says:

    I'd love to see a list of 10 critical things in choosing a husband, if you ever feel like making one.

  60. Athol Kay says:

    Anon – Did you miss the ending?

    (And incidentally… all those ten points can just as easily apply to what a woman should look for in a husband. For B Cups think physical fitness lol.)

  61. Anonymous says:

    Other than your silly old breast requirement, these are all-around generally unilaterally cool advice!

    Jennifer 6

  62. I am surprised no one noted it, but the danger of "once we are engaged all limits are off" approach is that lots of things break off after the engagement.

    That leaves your "perfect women" (or man) not perfect anymore.

  63. A broken engagement leaves you less "imperfect" than a broken marriage does.

  64. Matt Riggins says:

    Great list, Athol. And props for standing up for and speaking boldly about the virginity issue. You have many scientific studies on your side on that issue. Virgins aren't as rare as commenters are making it sound. I dated many before I was married.

    Even though it may be difficult to achieve, virginity until marriage is still a worthwhile objective that can add a great deal of peace to a marriage relationship and strengthen the bond. I would never consider a non-virgin unmarriable, but sexual history is an important factor that will bring a certain degree of consequences whether you agree with Athol or not.

  65. Anonymous says:

    Kudos, Athol, on this list. I'm particularly impressed with #6; I require it myself (I know that's hard to find, and that's ok) and I'm especially impressed that you said it despite your firm atheism.

    (Most VBM types, I think, are quite religious, myself included, so I certainly didn't expect to see what I saw here!)

    Anyway, I'm new to this web log, and I'm a fan; it's good as gold.

    (I know this post is old, but again, I'm new here.)

  66. A good list. Personally, I'm willing to give on a few points if the other traits can compensate.

    My own list was:

    1) unselfish/kind
    2) attractive
    3) interesting in some way
    4) at least somewhat emotionally mature
    5) virgin vastly preferred
    6) healthy overall
    7) young enough to safely have 2-4 kids

  67. Anonymous says:

    I think women with smaller breasts (experience talking) tend to be more athletic on average, and as Athol pointed out, when they hit 40 their bodies look better and younger than the girl with D cups at age 20. No two ways about it.

    If you plan on staying married and being attracted to your wife after 20 years, little things like that make a difference.

    Now all the comments made about fiscal responsibility, upbringing, mores, etc are also true in my opinion.

    Solid post.

  68. Considering we got married at 16 and 17 because she was pregnant, I did really well! My wife fits almost every area. #2, she is more like A to B, but I LOVE small breasts!! Neither of us did well in #4 (divorce is rampant in our families) and #7 started great (hence the pregnant part) cooled off for a while, and is now better than ever!! Everything else is 100%

  69. I would *love* to see a similar list (for both sexes) on qualities to look for in a remarriage, at both pre- and post- childbearing age.

    I'm new here, a barely post-menopausal woman who had her 20 year marriage blow up. Many factors, not all covered here, but if my ex was capable of following Athol's advice, the marriage could have been saved. [I won't go into details, but he would often confusing bullying for alpha and whining for beta.]

    So, I'm a single First Mate looking for a good Captain. As I get to choose which Captain I'll serve under, (pun intended) I want as much advice as possible. [I'm fully capable of running a ship, I like the ship I have now, but I'd rather be First Officer.]

    Z

  70. I can say first hand that breast size has absolutely nothing to do with physical fitness. I myself have been a DD cup since before 16 most likely. I exercise almost daily – I run, I lift weights, I'm getting into yoga. And my breast size has never been a limitation. I do a lot more than the majority of my smaller chested friends in order to keep my body healthy.

    Not only that, but having children does not guarantee that a women's breasts will remain bigger. They may get bigger during pregnancy, but many women return to their natural size. At the end of the day, perky b cup at 22 will simply morph into a saggy pancake b cup at 42 unless she makes an effort to stay fit.

    I'm quite sure that the men would not be too keen on a husband material list requiring a penis size of 7 inches or more. I'm sure that many of you would have your feelings quite hurt.

  71. Ethan Blue says:

    Number 6 always seems to bother people.

  72. Marshall R says:

    Regarding #2, (breast size, and the long term implications therof) I disagree with comments comparing ideal breast size to ideal penis size. This item is about *long term* attractiveness as bodies change with age.

    Rather, I think that the male equivalent to #2 is overall body type and weight.

    A guy who is over 220 lbs (100 Kgs) and built like a linebacker or bodybuilder (with amazing pecs, abs and ass) when he's in his early 20s is likely to maintain (or gain) his weight over the course of his life, but he'll lose muscle mass and tone and likely gain a huge beer belly.

    On the other hand, a man who is between 150 and 200 lbs and looks more like a distance runner or gymnast is likely to maintain a much more attractively-shaped body as decades pass.

    Regarding #6, (few prior sexual partners, ideally none) I (somewhat) disagree with TDD saying that the reason for this is that the wife will compare sex with the husband to sex with previous partners.

    I believe there's a world of difference between having opportunistic sex with an attractive, consenting person (who is great in bed) and making love to your one and only lover.

  73. Anonymous says:

    Wow, Athol. Except for 2 (I'll live with the sag) & 7 (yeah, this one worries me), my wife wins on all points. Thanks for reminding me that what we do have is worth fighting for.
    Jason

  74. Brett Stevens says:

    Everything on this list is correct, although I haven't been assessing breast size for comparison (sorry). People who follow these basic rules are headed toward pleasure, not pain. My generation could have avoided a great deal of misery with this simple guide. I think it also addresses the question of "Why marry?" which is more complex than most modern people think…

  75. Anonymous says:

    I'm a woman – and I think I would have been wise to have followed many of the points on this list. Frugal, with-it and fit – are all pretty good standards. If I could go back in time – I would kick him to the curb over Number 7 – he was never totally into me sexually. He was a virgin when we met and I thought his lack of sexual prowess was something that could be overcome. Sadly not so. So instead of that being a "GOOD THING" – it's turned into an enormous burden and strain on our marriage. We live in a sexless marriage – he's refused and rejected me consistently over the years. I am very thankful that I did have sex with other people before him, because it gave me a reference point to know that some of the demeaning and hurtful things he told me about my qualities as a lover were just plain untrue. Basically he's sexually dysfunctional and refuses to work on it.

    Make sure that you look very, very closely at that family of origin. I was always advised by my mother to look at how the father treats the mother. And I did. He was patient, loving and kind to her. My mom didn't say to look at how the mother treats the father. She's a harridan. Verbally and emotionally abusive – and some of that was apparent during our short courtship. I worked hard at the beginning of our marriage to make sure that he knew that being verbally abusive or picking fights was unacceptable. But after I had my son, he became even more like his mother – constantly criticising me, belittling me and emotional abuse (like repeatedly saying to our baby son "your mother's abandoning you" if I asked him to watch him so I could take a shower or use the bathroom on my own). And unfortunately no sex.

    I'm sure we will divorce.

  76. TDD,
    After I married I found that my wife judged me as a man for the wrongs of the 15 men she had known in the biblical sense before we married. I would make the statement that she was jaded rather than used.

    Our marriage has been a disappointment for me as I suspect for her as well since as a consequence it weakened our closeness and tended to forced me into a more beta mode of interaction with her.

    Sasha

  77. To the author who wrote: "You don’t want a multi partner slut, you do want a wife that is sexually activated on you though."

    THAT'S RICH COMING FROM A MANHO who coerced his wife into having an open marriage just so he could cheat without guilt.

    When the wife had enough you cowardly stopped the "multi partner slutting" before she divorced your selfish azz.

    Poor woman. I'd never in a million years even consider doing that to my wife. If I wanted to have sex with other women that badly I would ask for a divorce because I would no longer be suited for marriage.

  78. Marrying a virgin? Well, perhaps some of these husbands have pointed (incorrectly) to their wives that if they left, they'd be "damaged goods" and no new man would want them. Insecurity speaking loud & clear. Same with not wanting to be compared to a previous lover. Just give your lady orgasms.

    Athol: Regarding the whole cheating thing. You are dead wrong here. WOMEN CHEAT BECAUSE THEY ARE NEGLECTED/LONELY. They also may cheat as revenge against their husband if he had cheated on her (getting even, or an eye for an eye).

    She is not going to run off with the newly resurfaced Facebook boy UNLESS you have been ignoring her for months/years. Military men are the most obvious example, as they're deployed for months at a time. Men who travel extensively and men who work 80 hours a week fall into this category, too.

    She has no reason to act married to you if you are never around, either physically or emotionally.

    –Jaz71

  79. Anonymous says:

    Grow the fuck up.

  80. I thought the list was hilarious, especially the one about the woman having B cup breasts! Do men really go around measuring women’s tits before they decide if they are suitable marriage partners?

    And I am also amazed by the hypocricy. At one point he says the woman should be a virgin. At another point he says she should be willing to have sex when she is engaged. But what if they have sex when engaged, and then he dumps her? That makes her totally ineligible for anyone else to marry, doesn’t it? And if a woman really values her virginity, why would she be willing to give it up before marriage?

  81. gothchiq says:

    I have yet to meet or even hear of a man who even halfway qualifies to be this picky about women. To me, this list sounds like a recipe for Forever Alone, if not something concocted by a mad-scientist eugenicist from inside his padded cell.

    In fact, any man with such a laundry list of demands would be automatically disqualified and turned down by me for having his head firmly wedged up his tookus.

    The rest of your writings look fairly reasonable, even if I disagree with a good 50% of them personally… but this list is a real facepalmer.

  82. All I’m saying is I’m a 10 and my husband is very happy.
    That’s all I’m saying.

  83. Great list. My wife fits pretty much 10/10 :) Well, we had sex before the marriage, but at this point we were quite sure it is just the question of time :)

    BTW, this is about finding wife, with whom you want to spent whole life, and when you are still young. As such all the points here are pretty revelant. Also the virgin thing. Sorry, but you may whine about insecurity, but it just walking with your feets firmly on earth (do you have such proverb in english? hmmm). You want to have long-lasting marriage. You should then do anything do increase the probability of this to happen. Your wife == virgin, means the probability goes a bit higher. The more partners your wife had before == the higher probability of dissatisfaction.

    @missdk
    As for the “increased quality of woman” I tend to disagree, but this is just semantic issue. The kind of “quality” needed in wife is not the same “quality” you need from your friend or co-worker (though it may overlap). It’s the same about material for husband, for friend, for your worker.

    As for “contradiction” between 6 and 7 requirements, treat that as advice, woman. Behave like “I would want to do that so much with you, but I can’t because there are some rules I must follow” and “you are so sexy… I can stop thinking about what we will do when we marry” :) :-D P-].

  84. This list makes me even more depressed than I already am.
    Im 26 with a list of 36 sexual partners and only 3 were LTR. Most were casual or flings.
    I have D cup breasts. I come from a broken home, foster care and depressed mother, perverted father.
    Everything else is ok though – I’m experiencing a bit of a career blip right now but that is more or less covered.

    I am no longer promiscuous, going through intense therapy – tell me who will have me? who will take the risk?

  85. @NK
    I wish you will find someone, however, a girl with more partners than once is a high-divorce risk. I remember reading that having more than 15 partners means 80% probability of divorce. Not many people would take the risks. On the bright sight, there is still this 20%, and while MOST males would not want to marry you, there will be still those few, who will be willing. Your chances are slim, but you HAVE the chances — of course, if you REALLY want long term relationship. Because this is the real question — are you sure you really want a husband? You can be happy living alone.

  86. Annonie Mouse says:

    Oh puleeezzz…. Men have –and always will fall over themselves and trample each other for the most beautiful girls.. They are programmed this way by evolution/god/santa Claus who ever….

    If she is young, feminine and rapturously beautiful, she can be a chain smoker from a broken home who has no talents, education, or career, be a “recovering” porn star with bad credit and have a history of cutting her wrists …. And all the men will clamor to be her hero. She is their perfect damsel in distress, don’t you know.

  87. Annonie Mouse says:

    Oh… And I forgot to add.. The less “sexually activated” on a guy this young beautiful girl is—- the more he will want her…oh yes!!!!

  88. “He chose . . . poorly”.

  89. @NK, if you’re still reading…

    I know no man would really disqualify a potential wife based on breast size. Do not spend a second more worrying about your breasts.

    Besides that, 26 is fairly young. My advice to you is to decide as soon as possible whether you want a marriage and family. If you don’t, then don’t worry because standards need to get a man to invest in a loving, long-term relationship are far, far lower than what is needed to for a lifetime marriage commitment with associated risks.

    Should you decide firmly to pursue a husband, far more important than statistics and probabilities is whether you, personally, will be able to commit to marriage, love your husband, enjoy sex with him, and be a good wife. It’s true that ‘men with options’ don’t look favorably on an extensive sexual history. But men aren’t mindless automatons either. You can certainly overcome your past, but you must commit to improving yourself– just like boring betas must commit to improving their ability to stimulate sexual attraction in women to increase their sex rank. Work on trustworthiness, loyalty, and rationality. Number 8 on Athol’s list above, having a clue, can set you apart from a great many women trying to pin down husbands. Sexual self-awareness follows on that. If you fail to understand why you were promiscuous in the past, a man probably won’t believe you’ll commit to him. He’ll believe (and rightly so) that you are a high risk for cheating. However if you understand yourself, recognize the superficial alpha lust for what it really is, you might be able to convince. Note that the self-awareness is not for HIM it’s for you– you need to be able to recognize backwards-rationalizations and control impulsive behavior. The man will pick up on this through your behavior, not the explanations you give him. If you simply tell him that you’re not promiscuous anymore, he’ll probably be able to tell from body language and other incidental behavior whether or not he can trust you.

    If that sounds challenging, it is. But the worst thing you can do is lose hope. If a man ever challenges you with some variant of “you’re asking me to commit for what you gave to other men” simply give him a straightforward, truthful answer. “Yes, I did. I’m sorry. It was a mistake and I understand your concern.” If he still gives you a hard time, it was probably never going to work anyway. Most women will, at this point, blame the man or some other such rationalization-hamster nonsense. Resist indulging in that, and simply move on. This will build character, and the kind of man you should be looking is the kind of man who will recognize that character.

  90. I agree with all your criteria. I married when I was 39 and up until then I was afraid of being a 40-year-old virgin. My wife and are each other’s first partner and it’s been awesome not worrying about ex-lovers and diseases. She’s 6 years younger than me and we are both Christians. We do respect people’s right to choose how to go about their lives and we don’t judge them. We decided to follow Biblical guidelines and it’s worked out wonderfully for us. It’s nice being able to trust your partner 100% and know they aren’t comparing you with someone else.

  91. “It’s nice being able to trust your partner 100% and know they aren’t comparing you with someone else.”

    I also respect the right to choose of other individuals, but I really wonder about that last statement. Following the same logic, shouldn’t we fetishize the blind? Or the pre-pubescent? Or the illiterate? Or just hang out with severe amnesia victims after a brain trauma?

    Come to think of it, why shouldn’t we hire people who’ve only read a single book in their lives to teach literature? I mean, they’d be so passionate about how it’s the best book ever that they’d overshadow all the other experts, wouldn’t they? It would probably be good to restrict travel to any other countries, too, just like Stalin did: people get IDEAS when they go anywhere else, don’t they? Nothing beats totalitarianism for stability: just look at Burma and Cuba!

    And while we’re at it, let’s just make sure women are nothing without men, like back in the “good old days.” Men wouldn’t have such trouble settling down so long as women just towed the line, would they? And then everything would tie itself into a perfect bow.

    I used to help my ex-husband with his work while he was in grad school. But no one ever let him forget that his wife was the smarter one, and it destroyed him. I will never, ever forgive anyone who claims that ignorance could be the basis for a “sound” marriage.

    That said, I know you’re right: I might get away with the good looks, but the 5 languages, solid career, and 3 Ivy League degrees are a big problem. I’d still be married if they hadn’t made him look like less. Now, I instinctively look for more (read: someone I wouldn’t threaten), but that’s quite the limited pool. More degrees, more languages, more money…

    Sigh.

    I am not perfect; far from it. Actually, I am injured: I was a ballet dancer, and now I run marathons. When you live life to the fullest, you fall down. And you scar. And it becomes part of who you are. Despite the arthritis in my knee, the ballerina still runs harder than anyone else on that track. So I wouldn’t have it any other way.

    I might be single for the rest of my life. But if that’s the price I have to pay for having lived it richly, then I’m more than fine with it. I’ll be happy if even one single woman who read this post scrolls down, looks at my response, and doesn’t feel like she’s doomed. Forbidden or not, it’s a piece of fruit I gladly took a bite of.

  92. Regarding older and/or re-marriage: Revirgination is possible. On many levels.

    My 16-yr marriage was essentially sexless; I can tell you the exact minute each child was conceived because That Was It For The Year. I think I was traumatized by general marital neglect. By the time I left I was in my mid-forties and was convinced I would remain celibate for life. I couldn’t remember what sex was like, actually, or the last time I had experienced it. I felt like a virgin, scared of sex and unwilling to try it with just any guy. (I also got tested for STD’s and was clean, and wanted to keep it that way.)

    I dated around for nearly a year and those poor guys, thinking a newly single woman in midlife would want to get it on, were sorely mistaken. I did have some really nice dates, though. Such gentlemen!

    I got a job (I had been mostly a SAHM) and went to grad school (on my own dime) and got a better job teaching college. I also got in great shape (I even worked as a fitness instructor). I think I even went back to B-cup boobs. So, at this late point in life, I became better wife material (on your list) compared to who I had been in my 20′s/30′s.

    Mr. Wonderful came to my apartment while visiting other friends and needed a place to stay for a few days while in town. I thought I would just hand him a spare key and we would pass like ships in the night.

    On Night Two, he simply lay down beside me while I was in bed. And, uh, rocked my world.

    For that reason alone–that Alpha approach to sex, was it?–I said YES when he asked me a year and a half later to marry him; we were living 3000 miles apart and saw each other approximately once a month at best. So yeah, I married him for the sex. Because he was my first and only. He knows it and wears that with pride and responsibility. He tells me that sex in his previous relationships was generally lukewarm and often the lack of chemistry led to eventual breakups. Is it possible that my revirginhood is what is so invigorating to this relationship? I mean, the sex is out of this world.

    By the way, he was then 57 yrs old, a very attractive marathon runner/physician, very successful in many arenas in life, and had never married nor did he think he would ever want to, preferring the idea of cohabitation with which he had a lot of experience.

    Reading your list, Dear Athol, makes me think that what was missing for both of us in our previous lives was some element of innocence and appreciation for these basic things: for me, the wonder of first-time “real”sex without reams of pseudofeminist “dating rules” negotiation, for him the thought of marriage vs cohabitation–no back door. It’s deeply romantic. Six years later I can state with confidence that we are still very much in love–me with my notions of sex upended, him with his anti-marriage ideas completely shot (I even changed my name to his–had not even done that in my previous marriage), and both of us amazed at how happy we can be. It’s as if, upon meeting each other, our past lives were rewritten to make sense for what we really wanted. As far as I’m concerned, this is my first marriage and he was my first sex partner. For him, he says “my parents would be happy.” (They were married for over 50 years before they died, just like my folks.) So we have come full circle, and I think it’s important to realize that revirgination is possible as we mature and reconsider what we really believe in. We’re both good people, and we finally grew up.

    PS He always opens doors for me and I want for nothing.

  93. @gothchiq
    LOL….I highly recommend you get your head out of your tail…This list is a facepalmer? Have you ever heard the lists WOMEN come up with? This one is concise, and lists only ESSENTIALS, unlike what most women list (must make more than me and be the hottest guy, even women who make $80k make this kind of stupid statement).

    Why is it women like you think it’s fine to denigrate a man’s list of requirements, yet you “ladies” can have whatever nonsensical, unrealistic list you want?

    PS. This list of ten requirements is nearly identical to my own, and I just recently proposed to the ONE woman who’s met my list of BASIC/ESSENTIAL requirements.
    She’s amazing, and (no insult intended) most likely far smarter than you or most other women (given her field of work, AND how she handles me and other people). She’s the kindest, sweetest woman I’ve ever met (I’m in my forties, and quite successful, so I’ve met many). She’s pretty, sexy,caring, kind, and wants to make me happy. And she’s no doormat. Her friends are ALL jealous of her for getting married (a second time, and they can’t find husband #1), and she’s marrying a generous, successful man who ALWAYS treats her great (and they see it). Her feminazi friends *want* to hate me, but can’t fault me. It frustrates them so (and I love it!)

  94. The guy who wrote this article is a totally self-absorbed prick. Glad I’m not married to him.

    Guilty as charged.

  95. I’ve read all the insightful comments and fundamentally agree with commentors who point out higher sexual satisfaction in one sex partner marriages probably correlates with “nothing to compare it to.” I LOVE the idea of revirgination because after a celibate phase and spiritual transformation I too feel born again sexually. Recently a highly perceptive guy even described my body as looking virginal. But I really have to speak to the remark “every time you sleep with a man you damage your long-term wife potential.” In terms of obstacles to marital bonding, this doesn’t take into account past sexual intrigues that never found fulfillment. Sure, it’s probably 90% unrealistic expectations of who they are or fantasy, but in my case a one-time sexual experience with that person would suffice. In this light, women, if they want to be marriageable need to attend an all-girls school, wear a burka, and have no contact with the opposite sex beyond family. I am a passionate attractive woman with high libido, single, have not had many partners (not for lack of opportunity.) Even when dating, I sometimes think of the desirable men I didn’t sleep with. Some of whom I am still in contact with. In the back of my mind I know it could still be a possibility. I have no desire for ex’s or any former partners. In fact I turned down sex with one who took a long detour on a cross country trip to hook up. I’ve been “in love” with a friend of my dad’s since I was probably 8. If this still very hot guy, who is in a miserable marriage (with a mean, materialistic dog of a wife) indicated interest in me I’d drop everything in a New York minute. I’m also still “in love” with a man I met on a flight. We kept in touch after he divorced and if he had his way we would’ve sealed the deal when I was in his city on business. The timing wasn’t right…Still a possibility! Only a handful of guys, but the emotional/sexual attachments remain, and sex is only a few text or online messages away.

  96. Great article. I would love to reiterate something MNL said earlier in 2010…

    “Does she treat her father with respect? How she respects her father is an indicator of how she’ll respect you in 20 years.”

    This might not seem to be a big issue unless you have seen a woman who DOES NOT treat him with respect… I see the exact same attitude gradually creeping into how my wife treats me.

    It’s not a deal breaker for me personally, but I think it’s a great addition to the checklist when considering the whole package.

  97. If a girl has casual sex/ one night stands dump her right away. The double standard is because women can have sex any time they want and anywhere. They just need to spread and a bunch and there will be a guy around that would fuck them… guys on the other can’t wip out there cock and a girl would just come and suck it. So when women go out have casual sex one night stands fucks around sucks guys off…. its gross she can compare you to all the other guys. StY far car away and sign prenups like crazy if you are fooled by a settling down slut that now knows her sex rank is going down and all of a sudden she’s a born again virgin or any other bullshit to rationalize in her mind…..all guys need to use technology (polygraph lie detector tests) for any real trust to be built in a new relationship. If she fails move on to the next one. This is a screening process and a life long investment for a happiness and your most successful chance at completing life with a true life partner…. if she’s not a virgin it has to be a gir that was in committed relationship of long-term where she must not drink alcohol, smoke” havent had one night stands, fuck buddy’s, or any of that shit. More to coke later on this issue

  98. It was very hard to stay a virgin. Temptations are everywhere and in your face. My sexual awareness started when I was 3 yrs old. and became a head turner growing up. So imagine how extremely hard it was to remain virgin till the age 28 when I met my husband? But, I made a conscious decision day in and day out not to give in; see pass the facade most people do when they try to impress someone. What kept me going is that I have precepts I live by with. In the end, it was worth it because I have never loved anyone as strong as I have now. I may not have a reference as to what is an awesome sex should be but who needs it when I am happy and fulfilled with my lot? Isn’t that the idea, not to compare? If you do, you won’t be happy and fulfilled which adds pressure to your marriage. Hence, Athol’s guidelines is practical and true. Besides, my husband and I have a lifetime to practice! E.g. Kamasutra *wink*

  99. P.S. re:virginity
    Most of the girls I have worked with throughout have admitted that they wish they have waited. In saying that, there’s only a handful of men with noble characters as well. You have got to see pass the facade.

  100. Athol what do you think of polygraph tests? For screening out new girls ? I think before becoming a couple a polygraph should be used to build a foundation of solid trust of her sexual past and history of one night stands fuck.buddy’s threesomes college fuck days if she’s really into you or your resources and money. Etc…..if you were to polygraph test a potential mate what questions would you ask in the screening process?

  101. Elizabeth says:

    This list is the most pathetic piece of trash I’ve ever read. I have size A/B breasts, am by no means a virgin, didn’t have a fantastic family life and I bet 99 % of the guys commenting here would die to wife me up.

  102. Cheeky Sim says:

    I like the list for young people. Some are a little outdated (showing your age Athol). I was a virgin when I got married and I tell you now that if I happened to have great sex with a man who outdid my low libido husband who knows nothing about foreplay, he would win me over (but in reality I will never put myself in that situation to begin with because I’m loyal). I think the virginity thing isn’t important, it’s more important a man picks up his bedding game to sexual imprint on a woman. My body is better than it was when I got married, so those C cups are now B cups – LOL.

    Most of my single girlfriends complain there are no men out there giving good sex. If they find them, they hold on regardless of how else they treat them. Apparently sex is very very important for 30+ year olds single women.

  103. “Athol: Regarding the whole cheating thing. You are dead wrong here. WOMEN CHEAT BECAUSE THEY ARE NEGLECTED/LONELY. They also may cheat as revenge against their husband if he had cheated on her (getting even, or an eye for an eye).”

    Not necessarily. My ex-wife reconnected and had an emotional affair on Facebook (which became physical after divorce proceeedings started) becuase she has issues stemming from her family never dealing with the death of her mom at 16. After looking back (I’ve known her since we were 16), she has run from every situation that is uncomfortable or hard. That’s on me. We had a tough time due to 2008 Depression and rather than try to work it out she ran. Now I will admit I wasn’t 100% best hubby I could be but I never knew there were issues. So it’s not just loneliness or revenge.

  104. Billybob says:

    @Elizabeth –

    Please read my comment to gothiqchick on Nov 1. Seems you have the same problem she does.

    Your arrogance alone tells me *I* wouldn’t want to “wife [you] up”, and any man who would want to is deluded and not a great man. Only men who are easily fooled and not in control of themselves are suckered into marrying women like you.

    Personally I love small-boobed women…that’s my physical preference…but more importantly I like smart women – women who expect me to be a man, while they are women. Women who don’t believe in power games in a relationship, but rather use their feminine strengths to influence me, and embrace my masculine influence.

    Sadly you’ve bought into the feminist nonsense that only *masculine* strength/power is valuable. The irony is that us “red pill’ men (and women) are the ones who actually support and believe in the validity and equality of feminine power, while it’s feminists who denigrate feminine power as “second class”!

  105. @Billboy, you’re last two paragraphs are so sexy….wish I hadn’t read the first two. You would have been in my 5 finger dance fantasy. Darn

  106. Elizabeth says:

    Billybob : Not one bit. I am 100 % anti feminist and would like to marry early, have children early, be monogamous and have a life as traditional as it can be. But this list is ridiculous.

  107. I’ve been a lurker on this blog for the past week or so since I’ve discovered it. I love this post as well, its so true!
    I’ve been “shopping” for a serious relationship quite selectively, (and guarding myself against casual sex encounters While most of all my friends were getting laid left and right). Even though i was able to weed out some unsuitable potential partners using some of these criteria, (wish someone had shown me a similar list back then) i ended up marrying a girl that’s got 5 or 4 of the problem issues… She’s was by far not a virgin. Her family is both divorced and an emotional mess. She had had huge financial un-accountability, and she’s herself a self esteem bottom feeder… Needless to say our marriage is in deep trouble.
    when we were dating, she already had her act together to the point of pulling the wool in front of my eyes, plus she owned up for those things that she was still improving. She was straightforward about those of her shortcomings she knew about. I felt she was responsible and trustworthy but In short I missed some huge red flags until we were a year in and she was pregnant.
    We are now seeing 2 counselors and I’m slowly waking up to my sad reality (we are married 4 years now). I’m not a quitter, but if not for our kid, I’d have left her in a heartbeat! because darn it was hard when i had finally unwrapped/discover what kind of”gift”she was. Back then i was also in a middle of med school, and had almost flunk it. We had about zero communication going, cuz she’s so sensitive to any criticism (family history), savings were vanishing (she knows that something is good quality based on the ads in magazines, and had almost no financial self control) sex life sucked and still sucks (although i should be fair, she gives me whenever I want, she’s a HOT girl: a 7 to 9 depending on how dressed up she is, and she’s the one working now while I’m finishing school.) She’s like one of those models you see advertising ‘insanity workouts’… But I’m so depressed over the relationship that I Became a 4 or 5 in my own eyes on the sex chart. Maybe a 6 or 7 on hers (Coz she gets really sad if i don’t hug her or if I’m carrying myself aloof in regards to her. Plus she worries about the pretty nurses that I’m around at medical facilities) but i myself am always worried that some guy might make a move on her. She swears that she loves me and would nt think of bring unfaithful, etc… But she also dresses like a model when at work Coz that’s a look she absolutely diggs into, while i prefer more conservative stuff (elegant but not flashy like those Hollywood sluts… We had plenty of fights over this. She’d war-paint her face Before a date evening, and for me its a turn off.and i’d ask her to redo it differently, and she’d get insulted.).
    I’m starting MAPping. restated dressing nicer, working out, and reading mmsl blog everyday. I’ll be getting the book soon as well…

    But to those out there who are unmarried. Do your homework ahead.its really easy to fall for pretty pussy (or handsome cock) But you’ll have the rest of your life to bite your nails (and maybe even, g-d forbid to pay alimony or share the assets if you guys hit the D-road)

  108. Sydney Girl says:

    @AyersRoq

    Cuz, you’re OK despite not having the list prior to committing.

    She still sees you as hot because despite the fact that she’s equivalent to a Fitness Model Hot (and really in my PERSONAL experience every guy will say yes to a woman above a 7) she still wants to have sex with you. This website has taught me that as a clear sign of faithfulness (not 100% guaranteed but if you are the one chasing and she’s saying yes, it’s a good signal).

    Keep up your game and concentrate on the shit she’s doing well such as working now to support your med studies etc. I highly suggest tantra sex for your boring sex life (it’s good to hear a male after quality over quantity). Teach her about money – I taught my husband and he gets it now. It took years but if you plan on staying with her, it’s worth the effort.

    And whatever you do, don’t criticize a woman on her makeup or clothes when she’s fully dressed. You hint at it another time or you compliment her (and I mean over the top so she hears it) when she’s dressed to your standards. Never ever put a woman’s makeup/hair and clothing down when she thinks she looks nice…..I’m not the type of girl to get offended but if someone did this to me, because of their timing, even I’d punch on.

    You sound like you’re OK, there’s a lot worse. Focus on that.

  109. @Sydney
    Thank you for your observation it puts me a little more at ease. And about criticism, you are obviously right! I’m trying a lot to scale it down, and she notices and appreciates the efforts.
    Another reason i’be been worrying about fidelity, is that she used to initiate sex quite often during the first year and a half. Now this happens maybe once in several months. most of the time when she let’s me on, ages half asleep, or snoozes off during the act. Is it that baby drains all if her emotional strength away?

  110. Sydney Girl says:

    If she’s snoozing during the act, it has nothing to do with you and all to do with her exhaustion. My goodness, I’ve never heard of that before. She must be sooooo drained, poor thing.

    Children are the most exhausting aspect of our (womens) lives. Sometimes there’s not much you can do except help out after you get home from work (I mean take over completely if you have much energy left, you wont notice her appreciation straight away though so you’ll have to plough through it for a while before she catches up with her rest).

    If you can afford a childsitter/ minder, get one, take her for a massage, let her have a big sleep and then kiss and cuddle her all day the next day. You’ll notice something happens to her sex drive if she’s still turned on by you and it sounds like she is. You two sound sexually compatible actually.

    I was the absolute opposite with children (but I don’t know anyone else like me, all my girlfriends were like your wife), I wanted sex more because it helped me relax plus breastfeeding brought on lots of oxytoxin. Sex is the answer to everything for me except hunger.

    Don’t forget, in the meantime make sure your body is smoking so when she comes out of her baby fog, she sees the hulk in front of her. If she’s approached by hot men, she’ll always say to herself either I have a hotter one at home or one who loves me and my child/ren (and is not only after sex which many of us women recognize) – if however, she says I have a hot husband at home who ALSO loves me and my children, my guess is she’ll remain loyal forever.

    You sound like you’re very clever and you’ll save your marriage no problems

  111. If u want a girl with all those quality….there is only one place in earth …INDIA

  112. Ashley Lakes says:

    Perhaps rack size should be changed to phisical fitness. What about someone who is a D but can run a full marathon? Or swim 5 miles? Or goes to crossfit 3x a week?

  113. extuncvoid says:

    if a wife had before child’s birth a size A, then while being pregnant she get a B.
    will a wife has a C ‘ size during a lactation or breast-feeding? is that size worse as a wife with ZZZ, big boobs?
    as to me, I prefer big boobs, surely , but it hadn’t happen to me. my fate is either to live with a B size or less, or trying to cheat…

  114. I really question where you get some of these “studies” that you use to support this list. So many marital studies are biased that it’s really difficult to assess their usefulness…whether done by an ultra liberal university, or a conservative Christian organization, or from various government administrations…and I have seen the same statistics used to support opposite conclusions by manipulating the data.

    There are so many things that can happen to a couple during 50+ years of marriage that your selection criteria fails to really provide support for. Qualities that are needed over a long term relationship include:

    - Trust
    - Loyalty
    - Commonality of Purpose or Goals
    - Compassion
    - Passion
    - Commitment

    All of those qualities can be demonstrated in various ways during the course of dating and engagement.

    So many of the items you mention are just silly.

    For example, the B cup breast issue. A woman that has D cups over time and after breastfeeding several children will have even larger breasts and at some point will likely develop back and shoulder pain…but haven’t you heard of breast reduction surgery. I also hope you understand the statistics behind breast cancer and mastectomies…anyone focused on cup size will likely have difficulty in dealing with the realities of breast cancer.

    I think the studies about virginity and marital/sexual satisfaction are so overly simplistic that they rarely delve into the true fundamental underlying issues of trust and loyalty. Research into these studies show many are biased and high percentages of the surveyed virgins were from Mormon and ultra conservative religious families which tended to not properly gauge marital satisfaction due to traditional female roles “forced” by these religions.

    Your point on talent is not really what my experience has been, although I believe your point is about commitment and ways in which it can be identified during dating/engagement. There are many ways in which people can successfully demonstrate their abilities to keep or achieve commitments beyond having a talent.

    Also, I believe your points regarding she has a clue and the thing that you really need from a life partner really misses the point about ensuring having common goals and purpose. Your implied most obvious common goal is starting a family. But again…I think a deeper understanding of your shared goals in starting a family is really required. What happens if either the male or female is infertile…adoption…using egg or sperm surrogates…infertility treatments…all of these options require a better understanding of each other’s goals as to what may be acceptable to each other. And without some compassion…thus issue alone results in high divorce rates.

    I understand how you tried to make your list of 10 items…however I give most of your readers more credit than you do about their ability to understand the more complicated personality qualities that really make for a successful long term relationship and the other ways that you can judge those qualities in a potential partner.

    I came across your site by accident…and was interested to read a few articles…but was surprised by this article since it seems out of place with much of your other advice in tone and content. And I am not a counselor, but I feel like one very often, as an MD that has dealt with couples on various medical issues thru their lives over the course of the past 35 years. Plus happily married to my college sweetheart for the last 37 years.

  115. @Jim
    Finally!
    Someone with real brain came. Thank you for your opinion. Reading the article and some of the comments here has make me wondered, “do men really are this backward?”. Thank goodness, your comment has restored my trust.

    I am a very successful single woman, traveled the world, highly educated, award winner young entrepreneur with successful business, run 10 K daily, do yoga and P90X work out, a good cook, have my own property, raised by good family (parents still madly in love together after 37 years of marriage), 30% body fat with D cup breast, never had casual sex and into long term relationship. I don’t have a problem to become submissive as long as the man is worth to my submission.

    I know my worth and if the rest of men in the world thinking like this article, I would rather be single for the rest of my life.

    @Raquel
    I am with you girl!

  116. Seriously??? says:

    This article – actually this whole site – makes me feel a little sick. Thank god the majority of men I know don’t have such deluded, misogynistic views of women. For a wonderful, intelligent critique of this nonsensical piece of writing take a look at this article:
    http://talesofwhimsy.blog.com/2014/05/28/take-the-red-pill-why-wonderland-is-a-dangerous-place/

    Note that she ignored my post four days earlier where in many ways she pointedly ignored my discussion of why I’ve made changes to my viewpoint. http://marriedmansexlife.com/2014/05/a-choice-between-two-blue-pills/

  117. modernlove says:

    I agree that everyone should have their own standards /requirements whether it be male or female. Every person should not settle for less of whatever makes them happy,of course ethically and morally speaking. However, a woman’s breast size does or good family history does not promise that she will give you her full dedication.Perhaps, she is confident female that’s had multiple sex partners would love the right man dearly or the married young virgin will leave a few years down the road because she grew up and wants to experience more with males(does not mean she’s a ho either). I would dedicate my whole to the a man that finds me equally as valuable regardless of my history because its “HISTORY”! Let it go! Not saying the list is a bad thing but remember in a relationship there are always two list of requirements from both parties and they need to be consolidated… Yes, I do mean things on both list are most likely going to have to be sacrificed by both parties and some one that can do that for me aswell as I for them .. Well that’s just f****n sexxy.. Yum! Lol

  118. Wow! The most enlightening discussion I have ever seen on this topic

  119. Breast size: my wife doesn’t have big boobs, nethertheless she has enough milk for our baby and I’m very happy.

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  1. [...] ever-cheerful Athol Kay echoes this sentiment: The fewer sexual partners a woman has before marriage the higher her marital satisfaction and the [...]

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