The Daughter Test

Try not to damage your own reputation by hanging out with dumbasses, the obnoxious, the cheats or the insane.
After some thought I will be reviewing my blogroll widget and my feed reader et al and deciding if you pass “The Daughter Test”.
Simply put, “is this something I would feel comfortable about my daughters reading at some random point in the future”, and if I don’t feel comfortable about it, you’re gone. Here’s a non-exclusive list of things that might make me rear back and release the hounds…
Untreated PTSD about your failed marriage where you admit to zero error in your relationship failure.
Oppositional Defiant Disorder about marriage in general.
Omega Male Howling Disorder over lack of sex.
Suggesting women shouldn’t vote, be educated or work outside the home as a rule.
Helpful tips on how to cheat on your wife or girlfriend.
Suggesting women are sexually turned on by violence or enjoy rape.
Use of the phrase “Marriage 2.0″.
Entitlement Syndrome where you think no woman lower than a 6 is acceptable as a human being or that you think pump and dumps on a 10 are possible if you are a 6 yourself.
General Stupidity where you tell a 50 year old man that Game will get him 20 year old women into his bed on a rotating schedule.
X Rated photos without a NSFW warning. (don’t get me wrong, I like them, I’ve just got kids about)
Toleration of the budding Sodini’s that are squatting in your comments. Your silence is mistaken as endorsement.
Anyone that charges so much money for teaching bootcamps on how to pick up women that you could easily budget $500 for hookers on the final night so everyone gets laid and still turn a $1000 profit per person.
Anyone who seems to actively want Western Civilization to end because no woman is willing to breed with them and therefore nothing really matters anyway.
Anyone who doesn’t wish me Happy Birthday… I turn 40 tomorrow!


  1. Well, happy birthday then.

    I have to say, I'm not married, nor do I intend to get married before I hit 30, but this blog is pretty much the bright spot of the manosphere. I'm sure this will be met with protestations that the truth is ugly, but I like seeing something that's not utterly depressing.

    Glad to see that a practical yet optimistic view of women can help make a good wife out of one.

  2. Happy 40th!

  3. Welcome to 40 Atholk. It's the new 30. Now that you are a little older and refined, (uhm well into middle age); I offer you a classic quote in line with your opening comments on reputation:

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing; 'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands; But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him And makes me poor indeed. William Shakespeare (1564 – 1616), "Othello", Act 3 scene 3

    Yeah, you're right Atholk…quoting Shakespeare to the ol' wife probably isn't going to get her all hot and bothered. Well maybe bothered.


  4. haleyshalo says:

    Happy birthday, Athol! When my dad turned 40, my brother made a card that said, "When you're 40, you're over the hill. When you're 100, you'll be over the mountain." Congratulations on making it over the hill; on to the mountain! :)

    All of the criteria you mentioned are indeed worthy, but my top two have got to be Omega Male Howling and Entitlement Syndrome. Not surprisingly, they are related issues. It's strange, though, that Manosphere men constantly praise the "old days" where 5s hooked up with 5s, but a Manosphere man wouldn't be caught dead with a 5. I suppose that's because he really deserves an 8, the logic seeming to be that because he can get an easy erection from an 8, she ought to have sex with him….

  5. Athol Kay says:

    LIL don't make me reach for my mock-Shakespeare game.

    Thanks Bob, Jane and Haley.

    "Bright spot of the Manosphere", maybe that should be the subheading of the blog.

  6. All good except:

    * Marriage 2.0. There's something to that idea, especially when talking to social conservatives/"fundamentalist Christians", …

    * Suggesting women shouldn’t vote, be educated or work outside the home as a rule. There are sane economical arguments for this. Or at least interesting ones.

    * Suggesting women are sexually turned on by violence or enjoy rape. So you get rid of the Taken in Hand link now?

  7. This test is not exclusive to daughters. While the daughter test screens out a lot of the misogynistic problems, the son test also deals with lots of these problems. I live my life with the standard of trying to be the person my children think I am. For my daughters I try to be the man I want my daughters to marry. For my son I try to be the man he will grow into. I idealize my father in many ways, but I know he had many faults I was never exposed to or aware of. That idealized vision is what drives me on the road to self-improvement. Unfortunately my mother is also pretty idealized and my mother-in-law in not idealized by anyone.

    Happy 40th birthday. I turned 40 last year, and had a great time. My wife threw a surprise party for me and said that in lieu of presents people should bring strawberry pie. That was one of the best parties ever.

  8. Ferdinand Bardamu says:

    Happy birthday, Athol.

    haleyshalo: Have you read this?

  9. Happy 40th, sir. I'm a couple of years ahead of you, but I am just a wee grasshopper when it comes to your superior wisdom on the MMSL.

  10. Wicked Shawn says:

    Happy Birthday! What did you finally decide to ask for as a gift?
    The blogroll cut was a brilliant idea. I'm happy to see you do it.

  11. haleyshalo says:

    Ferdinand: Yes, I have read the article. Chuck's theory makes a lot of sense.

  12. Delurking to wish you a very happy birthday.

  13. Demonspawn says:

    First, happy birthday.

    Second, I disagree with a few things…

    Marriage 2.0 is real. No-fault divorce is the biggest change, but there have been several changes over the last 100 years that have fundamentally changed the meaning of marriage.

    Women's suffrage is detrimental to the society which allows it.

    As for women being educated and women working outside the home, well let's just be honest: women (on average) don't want to work outside the home, and if they aren't going to work outside the home then it is a burden upon the advancement of society, and their future husbands who are going to end up paying back the student loans, to spend so many resources educating these women for roles other than being homemakers.

    Look at full-time employment rates of women 10 years out from graduation. They're abysmal. Even master-level degrees such as MBA's see less than 50% of women working full-time after 10 years.

    Now, I'm not saying that all women should not work outside the home or not receive basic education, but we should reserve higher eduction for those women who are going to remain in the workforce instead of taking the mommy-track out of it.

    As for your daughter, she needs to make a choice. Does she want to be a mother or have a career? Either choice is fine, but she needs to make the choice.

  14. Cellofeign says:

    @DemonSpawn: What about women who make their choice, but then want to either try or switch to the opposite one? You know how women are with making up their minds.

    But really, you can't be serious. Even if a woman wants to work part-time nowadays (doing something other than flipping burgers, of course) she needs some sort of higher education. I would think that a woman who only wants to be a mother would be smart enough to forgo a college education.

    @Athol: Happy 40th. I have recently found your blog and already shared it with guys I know who could use a few pointers. (OK, I am using some of them myself as well).

    I'm wondering: Using your advice, do you really believe I can get laid every night? Most every night? Morning and night? How often is 'enough' anyway? I know there's averages out there somewhere…

  15. Happy Birthday, Athol!

    Since I understand you're likewise into fitness… Yet another positive about getting older/wiser is that as you keep yourself in shape you raise your sex rank (all else equal). If you were in shape in your 20's and had a sex rank of, say, 7 compared to others in their 20's, when you're in shape and in your 40's that sex rank grows to an 8 or 9–at least relative to others in your age cohort. You stand-out as more rare. Strange but true! Perhaps it sends a signal to others that you've got extra-fit genes or something.

    In any event, way to go! The 40's are great.

  16. Demonspawn says:

    "What about women who make their choice, but then want to either try or switch to the opposite one? You know how women are with making up their minds."

    What about the cost to society as a whole and men individually (husbands who repay her student loans) in return for "giving women easier access to change their minds."

    Yes, that's a great moral and ethical decision. Women being able to freely change their minds is obviously more important than a successful society.

    "Even if a woman wants to work part-time nowadays (doing something other than flipping burgers, of course) she needs some sort of higher education."

    It is only in our currently messed-up culture that we would even imagine job requiring higher education to be available as "part-time." If a job requires that level of skill, knowledge, and dedication it is much better being filled by people who will dedicate their full capacity to it rather than only being there part of the workweek and having others carry the weight for when they aren't there.

  17. Athol Kay says:

    If there are economic reasons to suggest women should not go to higher education, no laws/rules will be required to address this. The economics will create enough force on their own. I'm simply not willing to link to people who argue that laws/rules should be created to ban women from higher education. Or voting.

    There is no suggestion of rape or violence on Taken In Hand as something women want to happen to them. There is discussion on dominance and submission however which is quite different.

  18. Demonspawn says:


    You might want to read this:

    As for voting, if you consider the goal of "equality" more important than a small working non-intrusive government and 35% more money in your pocket… well I guess that's your choice.

  19. Athol Kay says:

    I think I've made my point of view quite clear on what I'm prepared to link out to. There's simply no way women are going to lose the right to vote short of some sort of post-nuclear war rebuilding of society, or zombie infection outbreak. Unless of course you can point to any historical situation where the majority voted to disenfrancise themselves to the minority.

    Blogs are free Demonspawn. Why don't you start your own?

  20. Demonspawn says:

    "I think I've made my point of view quite clear on what I'm prepared to link out to."

    You can link to whatever you want. It's your views which are in cognitive dissonance.

    "Unless of course you can point to any historical situation where the majority voted to disenfrancise themselves to the minority."

    No, but I can point to a few historical examples on how Women's suffrage ultimately lead to the downfall of the greatest (at the time) civilizations in the world. But we didn't learn from history, it was too politically incorrect, so we are repeating it.

    "Blogs are free Demonspawn. Why don't you start your own?"

    I've thought about it several times. The problem is, a blog doesn't work for what I want to say because it starts at the beginning and builds upon that knowledge layer by layer. You can't just jump in the middle of deprogramming all the wrong that society has taught the masses. That's why I've decided that what I want to write would have to be in book format.

  21. Athol Kay says:

    My point being this is my blog and you are repeatedly linking to what I obviously disagree with. I'm trying not to reach for the banhammer but you aren't responding to polite requests to desist. :-)

    Then write a book then. Just realize that books do not sell themselves and that writing a blog can essentially be writing a book in public and an effective marketing tool.

    Honestly if you can't write a blog post, you can't write a book length work. You just have to start the craft of writing and get it done.

  22. Demonspawn says:

    Ahh, if it's the linking you have a problem with, then *shrug*. The first two are research papers. Are you going to shield your daughter from the real world because it might have facts she doesn't like? Knowledgeable and prepared makes for a better life than shielded and ripe for exploitation.

    The second, btw, is a woman blogger. And since yer in the medical field, I highly suggest you become a nurse practitioner. As the doctor shortage becomes more severe, NPs will start doing a lot more work currently done by doctors and be in high demand (and pay).

    And, honestly, I write far more code than I do posts. That's because I prefer to do more productive things with my time. The problem with sharing unpopular truth is that people have a vested interest in maintaining their own worldview. There is a very high emotional and intellectual cost for admitting a long-held belief was incorrect.

    It's because of that I have decided the most effective way of making a good future for my own children is not to make attempts to change society to adopt a non-self-destructive model. Society isn't going to do it. Instead, I teach them the skills of critical thinking, evaluating risk, and prepare them for the fact that someday their best answer may be to escape a dying society and to feel free to escape. The world doesn't want to learn, my kids don't have a choice ;)

  23. First of all, happy birthday. Never thought you'd be this old, did you?

    Love the strong stance against some of the more pronounced bs in the manosphere. A lot of these pseudo-intellectuals need to get out more. Some of these opinions reek of bitterness from guys who can't be successful in the world as it is today.

    Also like that this position is getting some positive play at some of the other blogs. It needed to be said, and your initiative is appreciated.

  24. Athol Kay says:

    Thanks Salut.

  25. So…when are you going to share the very short list of blogs that made the cut?

  26. Athol Kay says:

    It's on the left side bar about halfway down.

  27. Looks like I'm late to the party! Happy belated 40th Athol… it's a good age.

    Your quest for the respectable blog roll is a good one, I'm struggling to distill a decent blog roll myself. It's tougher than it should be, man!

    I'm glad to see Dick-n-Jane made the final cut. Thanks for the endorsement.

    It's been a while since I clicked out of my feed reader, your blog's new style is nice. I've also missed the comment battles, apparently. Gee wiz… you can't be sure who'll show up to your blogger party, can you.

    I should visit more often. :o)

  28. Athol, I feel honored to have made your blog roll.

  29. Athol Kay says:

    You are welcome Grerp

  30. Anonymous says:

    Well-done, Athol.

    Jennifer 6

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