Reader Question;
“Does a vasectomy null the effects of the semen?”
This is a very interesting question that I have been trying to find the answers to for some time. Vasectomy could easily be a book length topic in and of itself. Based on my overall approach to Body Agenda I would think that there should be a way for the woman’s body to go “hmmm there’s no sperm in this semen”, and then react negatively to the man that is giving her sperm-free semen. If women can judge a mans genetic compatibility by sense of smell, you’d think sorting out vaginally his fertility would be a snap. But most of the literature states that women are all happy and excited about the vasectomy and sex improves afterwards… which would be an argument against my general theory. Though these are sales pieces often, so…. hmmm.
However I do strongly suspect vasectomy leads to divorce for some amount of men as the wife finds herself unconsciously unhappy with her husband after the vasectomy. Or he becomes unhappy with himself as a psychological cause. Most of the vasectomy reversals happen after a divorce it seems, so there is some indication that there is a link there.
Also with vasectomy there are serious immunology concerns, plus post vasectomy pain hits about 20-30% of patients. That pain can be quite permanent. That’s ball pain. Ball Pain. As in pain in your balls. Some small number of men are basically ruined by bad procedures on even more than just a sexual level as well. Though any and all surgeries can result in life threatening outcomes due to infection so it’s hard to say no to a vasectomy on simply that account. Ball pain. Owie owie.
My basic concern about vasectomy is that is that the testicles keep producing sperm and they have nowhere to go once the vasectomy is done. “It’s all just absorbed into the body” seems such a weak explanation for the long term effects. It’s basically akin to tying a knot in a fire hose and not turning the water off… you really wouldn’t expect that to play out well over the long term.
I’m still delving into this, I can’t find any hard numbers or data that even asks this question, but I definitely stand by the idea that crappy sperm and semen results in decreased sexual interest by the wife. Basic good male health is always going to get you more in the bedroom. If you have experiences (good or bad) with vasectomy, please comment. You can also post at http://www.vasectomypainstories.org/
My other concern is less medical and more relational. I know about freezing sperm and all that, but upon occasion a wife just goes nutty about having another baby. (Go go Body Agenda!) They can do this even after deciding and stating that you having a vasectomy is the greatest idea in the world because they are 100% completely done with having kids. If they change their mind, I’d rather not be the guy shooting blanks…
…I’m just sayin’.
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My basic concern about vasectomy is that is that the testicles keep producing sperm and they have nowhere to go once the vasectomy is done.Don't worry Athol, a man with a vasectomy just has to smoke some pot…
Well that would help with the pain I guess.
Even so, I suspect we will hear from a few men displeased with the effects of the operation.
Another reason why Marriage 2.0, that is marriage in America today, is indentured servitude for a man.
Reason being, behind all these feverish desires of you to ultimately please your wife despite what she's told you, is the relative power she ultimately hold over you should she pull the plug.
The divorce 2.0 plug. In America.
You wise guru, didn't get a prenup that mimics living together upon divorce, did you?
Don't get married until marriage 2.0 becomes a much more male friendly marriage 3.0.
I would think that there should be a way for the woman's body to go "hmmm there's no sperm in this semen", and then react negatively to the man
While this ought to make sense, I can't help but think about the reverse situation and of women on the pill or who've had their tubes tied. Does a man's body go "hmmmm… there's no egg swimming towards me (or no hormones indicating so)" and react negatively (once he's already had enough children with her)? Perhaps so. Maybe there's indeed something reptilian or autonomic about it all. However, it seems that men are more immediately motivated by the friction, the conquest, the relationship karma, or other bennys of sex. The idea that she's not presently fertile doesn't factor in negatively. (Though no doubt these benefits of sex developed in the first place as a reward for its procreative possibilities). Do women (not) react similarly to a man with a vasectomy?
Instead, and rather than something immediately physical, I think there can definitely be a shift in the power dynamic once a man gets a vasectomy. And THIS is the route through which attraction can wane. I suspect that, for some women, it's psychologically empowering to know her man can't impregnate another woman. Granted, he could still play around. But even if he did, she and her offspring are still much more safe from the risk of having to share that man's resources in a pregnancy with another woman. …And once she's feeling a little too safe and secure in the wrong way, unless those feelings are countered, it could develop into an attraction turn-off. For some women, "safe and secure" (in the wrong way) is located right next to the word "boring" in the relationship dictionary. The vasectomy as a trigger to betaization.
I myself nearly succumbed to the chorus and got a vasectomy. "Get one and the sex is awesome", said one buddy. "She's not at risk of getting pregnant and will be much more spontaneous," was the party line. But my spider sense kicked-in at the last minute and I bailed on the urologist appointment. Even before the word "LTR game" entered my vocabulary, I sensed there were better, more sure-fire ways to an improved sex life that didn't involve clipping one's sperm pipes. The promise of greater, long-term sex from one's wife entirely as a result of a vasectomy was quite likely an illusion.
Athol, you've quickly become one of my favorite blogs (I read Roissy for entertainment, but I'm way too old and married to pull off any of that stuff), and with this post you've identified one of the questions I wanted to ask. I got snipped a few years ago and I don't *think* that it affected us adversely, but sometimes in darker moments I wonder. mnl's final paragraph immediately above me is on the money–shooting blanks certainly hasn't turned my wife into a raging sexpot.
If you're really brave and up for a challenge, do you mind delving into menopause? It's looming in my future.
I got snipped about 7 years ago, and at least in my case, the promise of a much greater sex life was an illusion. But maybe we're missing the point. I already have 2 kids, and at the rate we were going I would have at least 5 more kids by now without some form of birth control. Having more kids definitely would not improve my sex life!
At the time, my wife and I reviewed all the birth control options (other than condoms), and it seemed like in each case the options for her were more invasive and prone to bad side effects than the vasectomy would be for me (I haven't has any.) My wife had previously been on the pill, with some troubles. I wonder if there's a way to position getting snipped as a part of beta male game. And like Athol says, a little beta is needed in an LTR.
As far as MNL's comment about changing the power dynamic, I think it's at least as arguable that this could be a favorable shift, since there are plenty of women who want sex without being knocked up, and they would view the snipped male as more attractive, etc.
Of course, there's nothing I can do about it now . . . reversal is a much more complicated procedure.
Athol, as I've commented before I love the blog. This post, however, hits on something that's been nagging me more and more as I read your posts on semen and its relationship to body agenda. The question I don't want to ask but can't escape is this: would not any form of birth control cause the woman's body agenda to lose interest in sex?
I have a coworker in his late fifties who laments but has long accepted the relative scarcity of sex in his marriage. His theory is that once a woman has decided she does not want more children that its pretty much the end of her interest in sex. I don't believe this theory but it does scare the hell out of me. Especially because my wife has decided, and I agree, that she does not want more children, two is enough. I think what scares me is that the theory does seem to fit with what you've written about body agenda. What's your take?
I'm just trying to put it all together and get the big picture. From another of your posts you say "Blocking the flow of semen into the woman by the use of condoms during sex is particularly bad." Another post of yours on ovulation and accompanying addendum implies that you were targeting couples where the woman is not on a birth control pill. And now in this post you are theorizing that a vasectomy is bad news. At the risk of getting too personal what birth control method do you and Jennifer use? (feel free to tell to mind my own business here) Is there a family planning method that does not conflict with a woman's body agenda? There seems to be an inherent conflict between not wanting more children and our body agenda. Am I reading to much into the whole thing?
I had it done about 15 years ago (been married for 27 years). To say I was hesitant would be an understatement. I didn't have any complications and don't think it changed our sex life one way or the other. She was obviously relieved to not have to take the pill anymore. I'm not sure I'd do it again, only because if I was in the market as a younger person now, I'm not sure I would get married at all due to the laws and all.
I agree with the poster above re: Roissy et. al. The alpha/beta mix you discuss is the right path for most. Great blog!
To those who are already snipped or who did so purely motivated by birth control and without the illusion it would overhaul your sex life… I don't think that getting a vasectomy need PERMANENTLY shift the power dynamic, nor shift it for EVERY man. (I re-read what I wrote and got the sense it might communicate hopelessness). Rather, I think it just means you need to be a tad more on your toes game-wise in your LTR. And simply being aware of the vasectomy's potential for impact is half the battle.
@Jake… great suggestion: a topic on menopause. I would jump into that discussion fray as my wife has recently gone through early menopause herself. (I've been married a little over 20 years). As it relates to the present discussion… similar to the vasectomy's impact on male-female dynamics, IMO, menopause can subtly shift the power dynamic again as well.
My husband's vasectomy had a transient, ( 1-2 week) positive effect on my libido, but no long term effect. I did, however, very much appreciate his actions.
I could spend a long time talking about my vasectomies, but I feel mostly satisfied with my operations. Because I had to do it twice I had extra scar tissue that has caused some ball pain. It took me a while to figure out the solution was lots of ejaculations. If I take care to ejaculate every two or three days (with a partner or without) the scar tissue doesn't have a chance to build up. If I wait a week between ejaculations, they can be rather painful (although it isn't the ejaculation as much as the build up to one).
The vasectomy didn't have a positive or negative effect on our sex life, but when we found out the first vasectomy was ineffective that completely killed the mood for a while. A big part of the vasectomy was to avoid any additional miscarriages. The surprise pregnancy ended in another miscarriage (our third) which certainly killed the romance for a few months.
I also think the vasectomy question has something to do with age. A guy under thirty has no business getting a vasectomy. Once a man's wife reaches forty, it isn't such a bad idea. Having kids after the age forty is not for the faint of heart. That means you're fighting teenagers at age 60 and paying for college when you should be retiring.
I'm just over 50, married nearly 25 years and had a vasectomy about 7 years ago. The operation went very well and I have not noticed any physical side effects.
'It's basically akin to tying a knot in a fire hose and not turning the water off… you really wouldn't expect that to play out well over the long term.'
I am not sure if this is the norm but my case the knot was tied and cauterised on the other side of the cut. If you think of a slow running garden hose that is cut, my knot was tied on the nozzle side. The sperm is free to run out but no chance of it getting to the other side of the hose and out the nozzle. Hence no pressure build up.
As far as sex is concerned, that is more complicated. There was an immediate improvement because my wife went off the pill years before and we were using condoms. I hate condoms. However the improvement was in the context of a gradual decline in satisfaction with my marriage. Frequency of sex had never really been an issue with me but my wife's lack of desire to try anything new led to growing dissatisfaction and boredom on my part at least. My wife always said she was interested in some things but when it came to actually doing them it was never the right time. I sort of resigned myself to this but it was also coupled with a gradual increase in ridiculous arguments and nagging from my wife. This reached a real low point about 6 months ago where I was seriously considering seeking sex outside our marriage and damn the consequences. A fairly typical marriage!
However I am happy to report that I somehow discovered 'Relationship Game' – probably through Roissy, Hawaiian Libertarian, the Spearhead and of course yourself. I had fortuitously also lost around 10 pounds the same time. Despite my initial feeble attempts, the turn around has been quite remarkable and we are now doing stuff I never in my wildest dreams thought would ever happen. If the truth be known, I am still a bit in awe of the change – and there is a lot more to come. My wife has basically said that she is now game for anything
In short, I think it is plausible that having a vasectomy could have a negative effect, however I think this would be totally overwhelmed by the dynamics of the relationship.
Thanks for your blog – it has helped me immensely!
Anonymous, I love hearing success stories about marriages that flourished after getting good advice from people like Athol and Roissy. A saved, rejuvenated marriage is good for everyone.
I was one of those small percentages that suffers horribly, and I can attest that it does in fact ruin your life. If you had a vasectomy with no ill effects, just count yourself lucky, and move on. I would give everything I own, every cent, to go back in time and NOT do a vasectomy.
Do all go read up at http://toddthewetsprocket.wordpress.com/
I've long wondered the same thing – but not in the sense that her body could ultimately sense the sterile semen. My intuition is that the knowledge (in her frontal lobe) of your sterility could creep into or influence her hindbrain and cause her attraction to switch off (i.e., her hindbrain would see you as substantially less alpha).
As to why men don't suffer this same loss of attraction when women are on the pill? Men will eff anything that moves.
Men will have sex with a warm bagel.
I think that the question of "will you neuter yourself for me" pretty much sums it up on a psychology level. Possibly it's just a shit test.
After carrying the full burden of birth control for over a decade, then infertility treatments, carrying and birthing two kids, I was *done*. I hated the pill, was tired of the diaphragm and was not going to volunteer for any more invasive procedures. I was open to another child, he was not. So I said without any rancor, "If you don't want more children, then it's your responsibility to prevent them now." We used condoms twice before he booked the appointment.
After mine I found a tremendous increase in sex drive. I don't think it was entirely due to being able to raw dog; I think it also had to do with the overall chemistry occurring with the sperm staying in the body. Like the body wanted to do it more to make sure some got out. Disclaimer: I had a bit of ball pain with mine, but it only lasted a year or two. Disclaimer #2: I'm now divorced. I think the reversal after divorce is for obvious reasons: you want a child with the new partner. I'm too old for that (can't stand younger women – they don't get my jokes).
Male increase in sex drive after vasectomy is unusual. It's the divorce thing that interests me. Does vasectomy increase divorce chances?
I'm repulsed by my husbands vasectomy and not for fertility reasons he feels like less of a man to me incomplete etc
Thanks for the feedback Anon.
I'm looking at vasecomy now. You have to use some form of birth control after you've had a few kids. Nothing kills the mood like 10 kids. Every method is going to have a downside. I'm not too worried about the vaginal chemistry set picking up on the lack of swimmers but the thought of permanent ball pain has kept me from making the appointment so far.
My love button has been turned off since my husband's vasectomy. Sex just isn't what it used to be. I loved the way he would squirt all over me and now it just drops off the end. It's like going to watch fireworks and awaiting the grand finale…but you get one of those little streamer kinds. It is disappointing. He no longer smells like he did either. He would walk by and I could get so turned on by his scent and now, it seems like it's gone. I can't even smell it on his clothes like I did when doing laundry. I used to get turned on doing his laundry! Since his vasectomy, things have gone downhill sexually and just between us. I vividly remember him coming through the door after his vasectomy procedure and he seemed different to me. In fact, I almost instantly started looking at and lusting for other men. How do you explain that?
You bet it's biology. Now I'm disconnected and looking for answers. We have 3 kids and certainly don't want more. Vasectomy is just so sad in the end. Physically, mentally and emotionally. Don't do it. You will get more sex before the procedure!!!I'm loyal and I want to stay together but I also don't want to stay in a relationship with sex that doesn't turn me on.I can see why this could lead to divorce. I just want the man I couldn't get enough of back.Vasectomy took him away. We're together and all…It's just different now.Hard to explain but living it.
Thank you Anon, thanks a heartbreaking story and very much along the lines I was thinking of. Perhaps you guys should really think of a reversal.
It's cheaper than a divorce.
You're so right! I wonder though if that would restore everything back to normal.And then, what about birth control? Actually, anything has got to be better than what we're living. I don't know that he would do it either.Then again, he also knows that things are different now. Depends on his wants.It's his body after all. Our relationship is the sacrifice.
I think you should float the idea to him Anon. The whole tiny dribble of semen is a serious issue for the relationship.
My husband had a vasectomy over 30 years ago. I don't think it affected either one of us sexually. However, he has been on medications for blood pressure since he was in his thirties and that seems to have taken its toll. He developed ED and his libido started to crash in his 50s and now he has no interest in sex at all. It's frustrating and heart-breaking for me but doesn't bother him. He just finds it strange since he had such a strong sex drive until then. He says it has nothing to do with me. He feels no attraction to any women anymore. I wish something could be done, for my sake.
We had a good time for at least 15 years after the vasectomy, so I doubt that it had anything to do with the problems later.
Has he been on anti-depressants?
I'd get his testosterone levels drawn as well.
No, he hasn't been on anti-depressants. I will try to find out more about testosterone and see if I can get him to get his levels checked.
The lack of sex drive doesn't bother him at all so he's not very motivated to do anything about it.
Well you need to make how you feel more clear to him then don't you…
http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/2010/04/natural-consequences-of-sexless.html
…kinda spells out the situation.
And of course the blood pressure medication itself can cause the ED, so that needs to be looked into as well. Though you knew that already.
Basically… "are you going to the doctor or am I dating?"
My Ex boyfriend got a vasectomy in the beginning of our relationship by his own choice before we decided to get serious. After it was done, he had lots of pain, and ultimately an infection in one of the tubes, that he had to take antibiotics for. After that, I completely lost interest in him sexually, consciencely knowing he didn't produce any sperm. Forget marriage to a man I couldn't have a family with either, hence him now being my EX boyfriend. I think it ruined it for me because in my mind, if he wasn't fertle, he wasn't worth it. I know it sounds terrible, But that's honestly how I felt.
Thanks Anon – it doesn't sound terrible just realistic. Thanks for the input, much apreciated.
Married my husband a year ago. He just turned 35. I'm 31 with one child from a previous relationship. He had 3 with his ex wife. I'm really bitter and I just recently realized it. I don't really LOOK at his children. I wondered what my problem was. Now I know. I can't make a baby with my husband whom I love very much, but he has 3. I eant another baby. We've decided to do a reversal. I'm afraid if it doesn't work, I'll be extremely unhappy and resentful. Can I live with that? I love this man and he's wonderful. Is it worth sacrificing? What happens if he cannot give me a baby?
It's a very common desire for a couple to want to have a baby after a remarriage. I can't tell you what you can or cannot tolerate, those choices are yours. Desire for a baby is just an influence on your behavior, not a destiny.
Peace may also be found in acceptance of your husbands prior children. Though I don't mean that to sound easy to do.
Like any other surgical procedure, practice is key to proficiency.
If you're going to get a vasectomy, make certain to find a urologist who does a lot of them. If he can't tell you his success rate (no sperm and no problems) find somebody else.
BobW – yes very much agree on that. I'm generally against vasectomy, but if you do it, go with a total pro.
I had a vasectomy after our second child. Two years later I had a testicular cyst which basically made it irreversible (plumbing is removed).
The two major advantages:
- my wife is no longer on birth control.
- I feel sexually uninhibited. No thought about condoms or more kids.
Did it change our sex life? I'm not sure. It happened while she was recovering from her pregnancy so I can't really gauge her change in interest.
But it didn't change my ability to perform or my interest in adult activities.
Don't EVER even think about this procedure.You don't know the future. What if a few years later you and your partner split, you meet another woman and you both want a child? Vasectomy reversal is NOT gauranteed. Don't do it. I did it to please my ex-wife and now it is the biggest regret of my life. I'm saving for a reversal but it's more expense and more surgery with no certainty of success. DO.NOT.DO.IT
Had a vasectomy 2 weeks ago. Orgasms not nearly as strong and wife is showing signs of disinterest. Ejaculation is about 1/4 what it used to be. Balls hang way lower than they ever did. Worst part is hearing the excuses of why she doesn't want to have sex. Things like.. "did you hear something" and "I'm Soo tired". Was never like this until immediately after the procedure. I am getting really depressed and scared about all of it.
Seek medical attention asap.
I’m a mom of 5. My husband is supposed to get snipped on May 7th, but just the thought of him doing it causes me to lose any sort of desire to do anything sexual. I wanted one more, he doesn’t want anymore, so we are at odds there. He has decided he wants to do this and go through it (I can’t do birth controls, they do very bad things to me physically). I can already feel this is going to be a problem. As soon as I think about a vasectomy I just lose total interest and feel so sick to my stomach. I have been searching the internet to see if anyone else felt like I do or if I was just an oddball, but I don’t feel so odd after finding this.