Comments on Virginity Thing Revisited

Lots of comments all over the place on Virginity Thing Revisited, and I had to work late tonight, so my replies are turing into a post…
MNL – “Athol, you’re getting soft on us! I much preferred your earlier post on the topic. Yes, the earlier post on virginity ignored its more difficult-to-live-by aspects, but that doesn’t change the facts. Study after scientific study is pretty consistent on this. The fewer one’s sexual partners prior to marriage/LTR (with zero partners being the ultimate), the greater the satisfaction in that eventual marriage; the fewer the dysfunctions.”
Yeah I know, I said that before, I still believe that. However the sexual marketplace is brutal in marginalizing those that don’t drop their underwear and point legs to the sky. It’s not “bad men” that are demanding this from women, it’s all men barring a tiny handful. I think if a guy wants a virgin bride, he’s got to lead the way in adhering to it himself and advertising for one.
Shane - “I was a virgin until my wedding day (13+ years ago), but my wife, to my chagrin, was not. She gave it to a high school boyfriend, although she dumped him after she decided it was wrong and then waited 5 years until our wedding day. It’s the single biggest issue that I am still not completely over (yes, I consider it my issue/weakness, for the most part). Don’t get me wrong, we have a great relationship, including sexually, and love each other and our 7 children. But in the bedroom, it’s not unusual for me to think about her high school dude with her, and nobody should have that kind of intrusion during their intimate times with their beloved. It’s an emotional thing – there’s nothing rational about it (ie, I’m completely aware of the tremendous value she built by waiting for me after that one guy). But there it is – sex is for lifetime bonding with your spouse – and far too many people treat it too casually. I’m thankful for what you’ve written in here – the whole alpha/beta thing is interesting to consider.”
I think this is a good example of what I’m talking about. However after 13 years it’s time to let go on this. But you know that already.
Johanna – “Sex is not for lifetime bonding with a spouse. Sex is for creating offspring that share your DNA. Yes, some species use it for bonding with other members of the species – humans, dolphins, bonobos come to mind in particular – but the primary function of sex is to create new organisms that contain copious amounts of your DNA, and the more one is able to do this (ie, the more offspring one produces that survive to reproduce themselves) the more successful that individual is considered to be. That sex helps cement a bond between you and your wife is a side effect of the whole process of reproduction to keep you around to help raise the babies – which you would potentially be inclined to do anyway as your average genetic relatedness to any of your children is 0.5 (50%).”
I agree with almost all of this. However sometimes that bonding really does happen, sometimes after only one sexual event. Old flames can burst unexpectedly into an inferno after accidently running across each other again. This is why Facebook is cited in 20% of all divorces these days.
Grerp – The Lost Art of Self-Preservation For Women“How do you determine if he’s a keeper? I agree with you that the sexual market is “Put out or get out” for young women – a huge failure of Feminism/the Sexual Revolution that is the elephant in the room of discourse. But there are no guarantees, even for discerning young women. If she gives it up and he walks, she’s out something of value, and he’s not. If she lays him like tile and gets pregnant (as the young are wont to do) she’s got three options – abortion, adoption, single motherhood – all of which according to the manosphere automatically make her certified used goods, and none of which are likely to leave her completely unscarred. If she is against abortion, as I was/am, her choices are narrower and harder. Which means if she protects herself and her options, she does one thing. If she wants to date/have a boyfriend she must act contrary to self-preservation. A real dilemma for young women who perhaps don’t have the experience to tell a keeper from a cad? Would you agree?”
Post-High School – If you haven’t been introduced to his mother as “the girl”, there’s your sign, you are not regarded as potential marriage material. Don’t fuck anyone during High School.
Rollo Tomassi – “So essentially the basis of all your advice regarding women, dating, social dynamics, gender psychology, etc. is rooted in your having sexual experience with only one woman whom you married (17 years ago) at 23 y.o.?
” Our relationship is eroticised in part because of what we are to each other.”
I guess it had better be, right? Because, what do either of you realistically have to compare it to? Really you’re making your necessity a virtue. The problem with your premise in this post is that ignorance is bliss, but you discount the very valuable education that both a great past LTR and a horrible one represent to an individual’s maturation and the benefits it provides knowing the qualities of a future good one.”
Oh hai! Welcome to the blog, what you describe is my basic theme drenched in every page. For the record We married at 22 and 24 and it’s been 15.5 years. During that time we’ve stayed very happy together and averaged about 300 sexual events a year every year and are still hot for each other after about 4650 trysts. Its a broken existence and I would kill myself but I’m too weak from ejaculating into Jennifer to lift anything as heavy as a handgun to my temple and end it all.
If you’re willing to discount my knowledge of human sexuality on the basis of us not sleeping around at some point in our lives, I can only assume you’re willing to discount your own knowledge about the benefits of a monogamous marriage with your first sexual love seeing you haven’t experienced that. I’ll agree there is an element of faith in believing that Jennifer is good in the sack, all I know is that I still get hard for her. So if  Little Athol Goliath likes Jennifer, so do I.
Dick – Dick and Jane- “The idea that a virgin is like fresh snow awaiting first tracks seems a bit flawed and it calls into question the value of the “virgin” label (in my opinion). Are we to assume that inexperience with vaginal (or anal?) sex implies sexual purity to the extent that the “virgin” could not have a disease, funky ex-lover, or bad experience? I’d rather commit to a partner who had a string of monogamous lovers than a virgin who gets throat fucked at parties on the weekend. While my example may seem a bit extreme, my point is that choice in a life partner should be based on MANY important criteria… history of genital contact seems very unimportant.”
I’m asking Jennifer if she was ever throat fucked at parties on the weekend right now…  awww come on, I think we all think a professed blowjob princess isn’t close to being a virgin no matter what she says. You know who sucks cock like that but doesn’t give pussy? People still waiting for the gender reassignment surgery date. It’s a man baby.
OMG that was way harsh. I’m so sorry for that. That’s a very difficult life for anyone transgender. But seriously, check out my original post that kicked this all off. Most of my points about choosing a wife aren’t sexual, it’s mostly personality points.
Meg – Demanding Joy“I think its sweet that you were each others’ first. It definitely gives you a special bond. It sounds like you have a rock solid marriage which is not so common. Kudos to you!”
I love the Meg. She gets it.
So anyway, I’m done on this topic for a little while. I’m sure you’d all rather read about me being a complete asshole on Mother’s Day.

Comments

  1. haleyshalo says:

    I think if a guy wants a virgin bride, he's got to lead the way in adhering to it himself and advertising for one.

    THIS!

  2. Anonymous says:

    Rollo had that coming.

  3. She's a MAN!? Dude, you just solved one of my many dating mysteries! ;o)

    Your responses to these questions are great, by the way, and the dialog created here does well to highlight the many perspectives on this topic. There has to be a certain amount of "agree to disagree" I guess.

    I have a tendency to use extreme examples to make a point, sometimes to my detriment, and I think in this case the throat-fucker distracted attention from my message. Your supposition that virginity (however you define that) is a barometer of purity and an indicator of sexual compatibility is flawed, in my opinion.

    You and Jennifer have a sweet thing going, you are right for each other and that is great! It doesn't work out like that for everyone and testing sexual compatibility prior to making a lifetime commitment can be important (though risky, I admit).

    You have a great way of stirring up debate with your blog, Athol! Keep up the good work!

  4. Rollo Tomassi says:

    How convenient of you to edit out the last part of my previous comment:

    "People can and do go on to have perfectly healthy, loving and vibrant marriages after having had sex with (multiple) people other than their spouses. Understanding and accepting that is part of being a mature adult. Expecting prolonged virginity or feeling betrayed because your wife or husband had sex with someone prior to you is adolescent thinking,"

    Actually you'd be surprised about my 14 year knowledge of marriage and monogamy after both my wife's and my own dating and sexual experiences prior to it. But then again, I didn't feel a need to start a blog with the purpose of convincing myself (and others) that I didn't miss out on experiencing sex with other partners for the last 15 years either.

    I'm not saying you're not credible in most of your advice, but if you were seeking help with your golf game, would you rather take instruction from a golf pro who'd played the game for half his life or from a guy who's watched a lot of golf channel?

  5. Rollo,

    He has a happy marriage, he's telling us why he feels his marriage is happy. Dude, what do you want him to say? If my wife had been a raging slut, our marriage would be even happier?

    You can only have one viewpoint on this, either you were promiscuous before marriage, or you weren't. One way or the other, you only have one viewpoint from which you can draw experience.

  6. Athol Kay says:

    @ Rollo – You were very much implying that I had no crediablity at all by your orginial comments.

    As I've repeatedly said on the blog, monogamy and promsciuty are simply sexual strategies. There are risks and benefits to both strategies. I'm simply expounding on the monogamy strategy.

    Furthermore I have said that monogamy is something I have long struggled with myself, but that Jennifer very much wants and as a condition of staying together I have stayed faithful to that. It's really only been in the last few years after delving into evolutionary psych that I have come to the conclusion that I have benefited from monogamy and turned to a more positive intellectual viewpoint on it.

    This is a real marriage, we have real ups and downs, I'm posting on my real name. This has been a very long and difficult road at times – quite unlike the experience of watching the golf channel.

    I tend not to reduce my posting to complaining about my day though.

  7. The overwhelming impression that I was left with is: Insecurity. Men do not want to be compared with other men she's had. I would suggest that you simply concentrate on being a good, attentive, gentle and caring lover. If you can consistantly give her orgasms, she will forget about any past men.

    This whole marry a virgin thing sounds good for the guy, but bad for the woman.

    I am NOT going to marry a guy I have not test driven. He could have freakish demands, like wanting to wear my shoes, or he could hate oral, or any number of problems. The only way to find this out is of course to sleep with him. Bye-bye virginity. So then I dump him, meet the next guy, and have to admit I am no longer pure.

    My advice to guys is that you just forget about her past. Concentrate on making her feel good, and enjoy the happy marriage.

    –Jaz71

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