Lots of comments all over the place on Virginity Thing Revisited, and I had to work late tonight, so my replies are turing into a post…
MNL – “Athol, you’re getting soft on us! I much preferred your earlier post on the topic. Yes, the earlier post on virginity ignored its more difficult-to-live-by aspects, but that doesn’t change the facts. Study after scientific study is pretty consistent on this. The fewer one’s sexual partners prior to marriage/LTR (with zero partners being the ultimate), the greater the satisfaction in that eventual marriage; the fewer the dysfunctions.”
Yeah I know, I said that before, I still believe that. However the sexual marketplace is brutal in marginalizing those that don’t drop their underwear and point legs to the sky. It’s not “bad men” that are demanding this from women, it’s all men barring a tiny handful. I think if a guy wants a virgin bride, he’s got to lead the way in adhering to it himself and advertising for one.
Shane - “I was a virgin until my wedding day (13+ years ago), but my wife, to my chagrin, was not. She gave it to a high school boyfriend, although she dumped him after she decided it was wrong and then waited 5 years until our wedding day. It’s the single biggest issue that I am still not completely over (yes, I consider it my issue/weakness, for the most part). Don’t get me wrong, we have a great relationship, including sexually, and love each other and our 7 children. But in the bedroom, it’s not unusual for me to think about her high school dude with her, and nobody should have that kind of intrusion during their intimate times with their beloved. It’s an emotional thing – there’s nothing rational about it (ie, I’m completely aware of the tremendous value she built by waiting for me after that one guy). But there it is – sex is for lifetime bonding with your spouse – and far too many people treat it too casually. I’m thankful for what you’ve written in here – the whole alpha/beta thing is interesting to consider.”
I think this is a good example of what I’m talking about. However after 13 years it’s time to let go on this. But you know that already.
Johanna – “Sex is not for lifetime bonding with a spouse. Sex is for creating offspring that share your DNA. Yes, some species use it for bonding with other members of the species – humans, dolphins, bonobos come to mind in particular – but the primary function of sex is to create new organisms that contain copious amounts of your DNA, and the more one is able to do this (ie, the more offspring one produces that survive to reproduce themselves) the more successful that individual is considered to be. That sex helps cement a bond between you and your wife is a side effect of the whole process of reproduction to keep you around to help raise the babies – which you would potentially be inclined to do anyway as your average genetic relatedness to any of your children is 0.5 (50%).”
I agree with almost all of this. However sometimes that bonding really does happen, sometimes after only one sexual event. Old flames can burst unexpectedly into an inferno after accidently running across each other again. This is why Facebook is cited in 20% of all divorces these days.
Grerp – The Lost Art of Self-Preservation For Women – “How do you determine if he’s a keeper? I agree with you that the sexual market is “Put out or get out” for young women – a huge failure of Feminism/the Sexual Revolution that is the elephant in the room of discourse. But there are no guarantees, even for discerning young women. If she gives it up and he walks, she’s out something of value, and he’s not. If she lays him like tile and gets pregnant (as the young are wont to do) she’s got three options – abortion, adoption, single motherhood – all of which according to the manosphere automatically make her certified used goods, and none of which are likely to leave her completely unscarred. If she is against abortion, as I was/am, her choices are narrower and harder. Which means if she protects herself and her options, she does one thing. If she wants to date/have a boyfriend she must act contrary to self-preservation. A real dilemma for young women who perhaps don’t have the experience to tell a keeper from a cad? Would you agree?”
Post-High School – If you haven’t been introduced to his mother as “the girl”, there’s your sign, you are not regarded as potential marriage material. Don’t fuck anyone during High School.
Rollo Tomassi – “So essentially the basis of all your advice regarding women, dating, social dynamics, gender psychology, etc. is rooted in your having sexual experience with only one woman whom you married (17 years ago) at 23 y.o.?
” Our relationship is eroticised in part because of what we are to each other.”
I guess it had better be, right? Because, what do either of you realistically have to compare it to? Really you’re making your necessity a virtue. The problem with your premise in this post is that ignorance is bliss, but you discount the very valuable education that both a great past LTR and a horrible one represent to an individual’s maturation and the benefits it provides knowing the qualities of a future good one.”
Oh hai! Welcome to the blog, what you describe is my basic theme drenched in every page. For the record We married at 22 and 24 and it’s been 15.5 years. During that time we’ve stayed very happy together and averaged about 300 sexual events a year every year and are still hot for each other after about 4650 trysts. Its a broken existence and I would kill myself but I’m too weak from ejaculating into Jennifer to lift anything as heavy as a handgun to my temple and end it all.
If you’re willing to discount my knowledge of human sexuality on the basis of us not sleeping around at some point in our lives, I can only assume you’re willing to discount your own knowledge about the benefits of a monogamous marriage with your first sexual love seeing you haven’t experienced that. I’ll agree there is an element of faith in believing that Jennifer is good in the sack, all I know is that I still get hard for her. So if Little Athol Goliath likes Jennifer, so do I.
Dick – Dick and Jane- “The idea that a virgin is like fresh snow awaiting first tracks seems a bit flawed and it calls into question the value of the “virgin” label (in my opinion). Are we to assume that inexperience with vaginal (or anal?) sex implies sexual purity to the extent that the “virgin” could not have a disease, funky ex-lover, or bad experience? I’d rather commit to a partner who had a string of monogamous lovers than a virgin who gets throat fucked at parties on the weekend. While my example may seem a bit extreme, my point is that choice in a life partner should be based on MANY important criteria… history of genital contact seems very unimportant.”
I’m asking Jennifer if she was ever throat fucked at parties on the weekend right now… awww come on, I think we all think a professed blowjob princess isn’t close to being a virgin no matter what she says. You know who sucks cock like that but doesn’t give pussy? People still waiting for the gender reassignment surgery date. It’s a man baby.
OMG that was way harsh. I’m so sorry for that. That’s a very difficult life for anyone transgender. But seriously, check out my original post that kicked this all off. Most of my points about choosing a wife aren’t sexual, it’s mostly personality points.
Meg – Demanding Joy – “I think its sweet that you were each others’ first. It definitely gives you a special bond. It sounds like you have a rock solid marriage which is not so common. Kudos to you!”
I love the Meg. She gets it.
So anyway, I’m done on this topic for a little while. I’m sure you’d all rather read about me being a complete asshole on Mother’s Day.