When Do You Divorce Her?

I had a reader email asking about when to divorce. The basic background being that he’d really put effort into making himself into a better more sexy man and she hadn’t responded. This is a very tough question and I’m not convinced there is a stock answer.
I’m not one for saying you should just shrug your shoulders and cut and run, if you’ve been lackluster for years sometimes the last person you can convince you’ve changed for the better is your wife. If she’s been drenched in your blah sexual presence for years, she may be essentially trained by you to not be responsive. It can be a little while to unlearn that and it may require more of a shock to her system than mere polite conversation.
So assuming it’s been at least three months to a year of you being really tricked out on being sexy as you can be, with no response from her, it starts looking like more and more that she has some sort of low sexual desire issue. So it’s time to start really checking into the medical picture for her, get a full check up, look into all the medications she is on. Birth control pills and SSRI anti-depressants can nerf sexual desire for example. If it’s something really as simple as changing from birth control pills to condoms or a little testosterone patch as what returns the spark in her eye, it would be foolish to walk way too soon.
If you’ve been through all that sort of thing and it’s coming up with no medical issues, on some level she’s probably just not interested in you at all or choosing to behave that way. I think the next step is a conversation with her about you needing more than she has been giving. Ultimately I think marriage is a sexual relationship and it’s very difficult to sustain a marriage without the sexual contact implied in the relationship. I really do see one spouse denying reasonable sexual outlet to the other and making no attempt to fix things as cheating the other spouse out of their marriage. Does she even want to try and fix things on her end is the basic question.
As I’ve written on the blog before, sexless marriages basically force the partner that wants sex into three outcomes; (1) Misery, (2) Cheating, or (3) Leaving. She’s the only one that has the power to decide for (4) Resuming Sex.
Ultimately I’ve never said that my system is 100% going to work with salvaging a marriage, just that it will probably make her more interested and responsive, and if it doesn’t, you’re in a better place with yourself to seek someone new. My general advice is to continue to push on towards a resolution of the situation towards either outcome (3) or (4). Ultimately she gets to make that choice between them.
However the pushing towards those outcomes can all seem like nothing but talk, the real action really starts to kick in once you start having obvious interactions with other women. You don’t have to cheat on her (that can be a huge stumbling block to resuming things with her), just make it clear that there are other opportunities out there you know you could have. Basically destabilizing the relationship slowly by turning up the threat of leaving. Even something as low key as being obviously friendly with another woman has impact. Having lunch with someone else. Phone calls and texts. Little bite sized tastes of her future without you.
You may find the wife that has no interest in seeing the doctors to check herself out suddenly gets interested in doing so once it appears you are making some traction with a new woman. Funny that huh.
Filing for divorce is the final attempt at getting her attention. When to go is a question only you can answer. A lot will depend on the divorce laws of your state, how you can resolve the marriage as well as you can. The kid issue is huge too. I think in the end the time to go will be quite apparent to you. I think it’s when you actually feel sad for her and what she’s losing.
I write primarily for men. But if you’re a female reader 99% of this works just the same for you.

Comments

  1. Anonymous says:

    I can testify to the fact that antidepressants can completely erase libido, in fact the idea of sex repulsed me during that time, and I am normally a woman with high sexual interest. Even worse, once you get off them, it takes some time for your drive to return. Will never go on them again; little pills of evil!

    The doctors over prescribe them like they were harmless TicTacs.

  2. Deansdale says:

    If you start contemplating divorce it's 99% that your wife is already thinking about it. Make sure you won't fall victim to some kind of divorce theft. Cancel joint bank accounts and stuff. If you suspect you'll be ruthlessly taken to the cleaners you might look around for information on expating. I'm not saying you should do something radical "as a precaution" but you have to protect your own interests.
    All this is doubly true if you tell her you're unsatisfied with the marriage and/or you tell her you're thinking about divorce. You don't want to be the next hapless chap served with a restraining order while finding out all his accounts are empty in the middle of a business trip.

    There is one case when you should definitely file for divorce and that is if your marriage starts to stink *before* having children. NEVER think children will fix your marriage and NEVER allow her to trap you in a hellish marriage or child support payments by getting pregnant in a marriage that doesn't work.

  3. All excellent advice, Athol. I would add that you can have the opportunity to test a lot of those things if you go on vacation with her. That gives you ample opportunity to show how attractive you are to other women, see if she's really got a low sex drive and not cheating on you and lastly, give room for that "conversation" about needing more from her. It can also give you a nice excuse to "change" to be a more sexy man ("That vacation really changed you, didn't it?"). Plus, vacations naturally have a good vibe, which can't hurt.

  4. A couple of thoughts:

    1 – To some extent, I would not advocate telling her you are thinking about leaving. Let your actions demonstrate it, but treat actually saying it like revealing a state secret.

    2 – I concur with Deansdale that if you are seriously considering this, you need to cover your ass. Start moving assets into a non-joint account so you cannot be easily frozen out of them. Start making contingency plans for what you will do if you file for divorce. Basically, create as durable and diversified a financial platform for you ONLY as is humanly possible, so that if she tries to pull the rug out from under you by filing first and stripping down the accounts, you were one step ahead of her (this, also, is way, way more likely than you think).

    3 – I also believe the question of leaving must be related to her behavior. If she is mostly decent, but just uninterested in sex, I approve of the Athol approach. If she truly is a vicious, scheming, virulent harpy who is never happy with anything, get your ducks in a row and blitz her with the divorce filing as hard as possible. You can't rebuild a marriage with someone who is downright evil.

    4 – Athol is 100% right that ultimately, one has to take personal accountability for their needs. If you really aren't getting what you want, you have to be willing to walk if the other person will not budge; if you are, it's amazing how often people will budge once they see that. Then the question becomes if you want to stay after having to push it that far, but that's another issue.

  5. Athol Kay says:

    Agree with all of that Reinholt.

    Importantly watch for the thing where the wife decides that a divorce is like a 50% sale on everything…

  6. Erika Awakening says:

    "If she's been drenched in your blah sexual presence for years, she may be essentially trained by you to not be responsive."

    Damn, that there is some hard-hitting, yet really awesome advice :)

  7. Athol Kay says:

    Thanks Erika.

  8. Speechless says:

    Wow. How lightly divorce is described here if it's the man doing it. Athol, I'm shocked. If a couple has no kids, that's one thing. If the couple has a family together, it ceases to be about the "needs" of either of them. It's all about the kids.

    People: if you don't want to make your life "all about the kids" then DON'T HAVE THEM.

  9. Athol Kay says:

    Speechless – I'm hardly pro-divorce. If you haven't noticed my entire website is pro-marriage and about finding ways to stay together and in love together.

    However I get frequent emails from people in sexless marriages lasting years or from people who have spouses cheating on them. Divorce is utterly ugly and the last resort.

    I do disagree about making your whole life about the kids too. A happy marriage relationship is key to a to them having a happy childhood, and thus is more important I think.

  10. Speechless says:

    A happy marriage is key to kids having a happy life with their parents. However, divorce is utterly devastating. If one spouse has a low-no libido and is HAPPY without sex, while the high libido spouse is un-happy because he or she is not getting any, the onus is on the un-happy spouse to find other ways to show up happy for his or her kids.

  11. Athol Kay says:

    Speechless do you realize how near impossible that is to do? I have had contact with people that have had years of sexual refusal and have had their spirit crushed and broken by someone that supposedly should love them the most of anyone in the world.

    I'm not saying it's pleasant, but I can assure you that no/low sex marriages in this day and age typically result in the partner that wants more sex either cheating or leaving. Do you not see I'm trying to save those marriages?

    What you are asking is a terrible cruelty and a lifetime of heartbreak for the sexually interested spouse.

  12. Speechless says:

    I've been there.

    Both my husband and I have gone through long periods where we were not interested in sex. Unfortunately we were never in sync at those times. I've had to go without and so has he. We discussed it and decided that we were going to do OTHER things together to keep us "bonded".

    For a while it was basketball in our driveway. That was fun. Another time it was long walks hand in hand through the forest in the back of our house. Another time it was cooking together. Another – simply lots of hugging and falling asleep spooning.

    During his dry periods I masterbated a lot and vice versa.

    As long as you care for each other and show it, sexual release can be achieved with your own hand. You don't need another human for that.

    It works.

    We're happy. Our kids are happy. Sex isn't everything. I certainly wouldn't break up a family over it. Would you?

  13. Athol Kay says:

    So why are you here then?

  14. Speechless says:

    To show an alternative way.

  15. Athol Kay says:

    Do you really think that spouses that walk away from sexless marriages haven't tried to accept that "it's not that serious, I'll just masturbate"?

    Most of them do that for years before they finally breakdown.

  16. Deansdale says:

    You know Speechless there is a fundamental difference between having some dry spells and having *no sex for years* in a marriage. What you describe is a more-or-less natural "fluctuation" in sexual desire in any human being which does not result in sexless marriages. I doubt that at any point in your marriage your husband explicitly denied to have sex with you for months.

    And practically every sexless marriage is "caused" by women (apart from health issues). Some of them marry beta providers they already know they don't want to have lots of sex with. Most of them betaize their husbands and grab all the power in the relationship until they see him as a spineless weakling and lose all respect and lust for him. But of course it's in their instincts so they're not "evil". Well, most of them.
    What is evil is denying basic knowledge to men about the instincts of women. What they should teach in elementary schools is some of the theories behind game (eg. hypergamy), and not PC neoliberal bullsh*t like "King and King".
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_&_King#Lawsuit

  17. Speechless says:

    We have in fact gone years without sex. And are kids were STILL more important.

  18. Athol Kay says:

    Well Speechless my hat is off to you then for making it together, you are quite rare to have survived that and still be together and so happy.

    Why not start a blog about your journey together? I'm sure many couples could benefit from your insight and I'm interested to know more.

  19. Deansdale says:

    "We have in fact gone years without sex."
    I don't want to be offensive but you forgot to tell whose "idea" it was. I bet it was yours, not his.
    You want to sound like a very responsible person saying that the kids are the most important, and on face value it's mighty fine. But you know your husband also has needs and desires a responsible wife would take care of so if you don't do your "marital duties" you're not a responsible person, you're a hypocrite who uses the kids as an excuse.
    A sexless marriage might be survivable, but it's not normal and sure as hell it's not joyful. Enduring a sexless marriage is the worst option possible and noone should advocate it.

  20. Athol Kay says:

    I don't know Deansdale, she may be sincere. There's plenty of reasons couples can have low sex times and they might just have had a lot of them.

    Also this is only her side of the story, hence my interest in hearing something more.

  21. Speechless says:

    My husband was the first to deny me sex. He was going through a rough period in his life and sex was the last thing on his mind. I tolerated for a good long while – months actually. Finally I confronted him and we both realized that this was going to ruin us IF we didn't put the kids first AND find other ways to express our desires for each other.

    Still, he did not have sex with me, but we were happy because we WORKED at it.

    Then gradually he got back into the game.

    Shortly after HE got back into sex, I went through some stuff of my own which caused ME to not want sex.

    So again – we upped the ante on all the other bonding things – like contact sports in the backyard, long walks hand in hand, etc.

    We stayed connected through the dry spells.

    So basically my husband and I are almost never in sync when it comes to periods of sexiness and periods of dry spells.

    We laugh about it now. If we have a 4 week period where we BOTH want sex we make the most of it, because both of us know that it's only a matter of time before we'll AGAIN be going an entire year or 2 without it.

    And then, as you get older – into your 40s and beyond, the sex hormones drop off considerably anyway.

    For that reason I am deadset against viagra and the like. Let nature takes it's course and enter your grandparenting years with some dignity for goodness sake!

  22. Ok, maybe I was a bit offensive but it was not intended to be personal. What angers me is the problem itself.
    Women's subconscious tendencies are ruining otherwise perfectly fine marriages and LTRs by manipulating the man with sex and then viewing him as a loser for being manipulable. I'm not saying women are evil. They are just the way god/nature created them. But we have the possibility of understanding them and saving ourselves from a lot of pain. The problem is that feminists (and to some degree women in general) fight tooth and nail against the spreading of knowledge about their instincts.

    I mostly agree with what Dennis Prager had to say about this issue (he has one or two white-knight/feminist moments):
    http://www.dennisprager.com/columns.aspx?g=652609e7-f8fe-44d7-834c-7ad9904e41c0&url=when_a_woman_isnt_in_the_mood_part_i
    http://www.dennisprager.com/columns.aspx?g=1fe5a8b3-daae-4edc-bcce-7042b43a2837&url=when_a_woman_isnt_in_the_mood_part_ii

  23. strikeforcemorituri says:

    First off I want to say that I love what you write in regards to maintaining healthy relationships. As a long time reader I can truly tell you you're doing a great service for a lot of men an women.

    With that said I've read a few of the comments here and some of them are pretty spot on, and well some are blah…. In my opinion the only real reason to leave a relationship whether it's a marriage or just a LTR is when there is a clear disintegration of mutual respect between the individuals in the relationship. However it is manifested is of no importance, witholding sex for an extended period of time (I truly don't know how people don't have sex for half a year) which for me as a man is a very important part of my relationships would definitely be something I might walk away from a marriage for. It's really funny because I see it happen a lot and well it definitely puts the fear of marriage in me.

  24. I'm still not sure you get it Specchless. The people that can do what you and your husband do don't need this blog. The people that are going to split because of low sex marriages do. I'm about giving those people a fighting chance at turning things around.

    Many times the low sex half of the couple is openly hostile about sex to the more interested spouse, with no interest in walks and basketball et al with their spouse.

    It also sounds like both you and your husband have a below average sex drive, so that likely have made things easier for you too. Would basketball and walks satsified you if you were the type that wanted sex 8-10 times a week? And say his low sex period had lasted seven years with no end in sight?

    We all have our breaking point.

  25. Speechless says:

    Deansdale seems to approve of men leaving sexless wives but not the reverse. Anyway, Athol, during my husbands dry spells I did have a high sex drive. Solution: masterbation.

    As we've aged the sex drive has lessened in both of us, but when we were younger we both had a strong one and both of us had to find alternatives to "release" in the form of masterbtion.

    It's worth it for the kids and a the benefits of a stable family.

  26. Well like I said it's wonderful for you Speechless that you guys are together.

    If I both say that my wife and I have sex 350 times a year every year AND that people in sexless marriages should just masturbate, I'm pretty sure that would be the day we all look back on as the day everything started to go wrong.

    You've lived that life and can write about it. I can't.

    That being said, I still think most people just have a breaking point, and in a No-Fault Divorce State, that doesn't have to be much of a breaking point.

  27. "Deansdale seems to approve of men leaving sexless wives but not the reverse."
    I don't know how you got that impression. Let me quote Dennis here: "There are marriages with the opposite problem — a wife who is frustrated and hurt because her husband is rarely in the mood. But, as important and as destructive as that problem is, it has different causes and different solutions, and is therefore not addressed here. What is addressed is the far more common problem of 'He wants, she doesn't want.'"

    Marrying someone is saying you won't have sex with anyone else for the rest of your life (theoretically). And your spouse denying sex means you won't have sex with anyone, ever. That is unacceptable. There is no person in the world for whom I'd do that, no matter how much I love her.
    To insist that a spouse doesn't cheat and at the same denying sex to him/her is vile.
    For us men it's like the grandmother of all the ultimate shit tests.

  28. Novaseeker says:

    It really does depend on the importance of sex to the couple. That, in turn, does depend on the relative libido of each partner. If there is a mismatch there, that can be a big problem for the high libido partner. Conversely, if both partners have a middling or even low sex drive — or if they cycle in and out of a low sex drive as Speechless describes — it's probably better, fi they have children already, to try to muddle through that situation in the marriage, because with that kind of libido fluctuation anyway a new relationship is certainly not going to be any easier, sexually, and the kids are ripped up by a divorce, even under the best of circumstances.

    As a divorced guy and a single dad, I would say that couples with kids should not divorce lightly, and I don't think Athol is suggesting otherwise here. If there is a way to make it work, then try your ass off to make it work. But sometimes there just isn't. Most often, this has to do with sex (even though we pawn it off in the literature and to friends and colleagues as being for other reasons, in most marriages where there isn't physical abuse or drug abuse, the problem at the core is some kind of sexual distancing that has happened). Some people can deal with that better than others. If you can manage it, you're probably better off staying together with the kids than trying another relationship which you just may very well fuck up as badly as your marriage, leaving your doubly fucked and your kids in the lurch, too. If you can't manage it, then get divorced and make the best of it to mitigate the negative impact on your kids. But I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all solution, here — it very much depends on your situation, your relative needs, and the prospects of things actually being better in a different relationship (keeping in mind that second and later marriages crater at a much, much higher rate than first ones do).

  29. Thanks Deansdale and Novaseeker.

    I think what most angered me about Speechless is that I'm very clearly a marriage positive person and work hard to promote and support that viewpoint. I do however see that divorce is a reality that exists.

    And I write one post about that and I'm supposely trying to herd everyone into divorce court. Oy.

  30. Speechless says:

    Quantity may be a guy thing but quality is a girl thing. There may be more husbands complaining about the quantity of sex but believe me, their wives are complaining about the quality – and often going unsatisfied. What then – divorce?

    Sex is not an isolated thing for a woman. For us to be turned on by our men the relationship must be going smoothly. No fights or greivences hanging. And to get "in the mood" our men need to demonstrate affection, concern, understanding and respect for us throughout the day.

    Sex may be an isolated thing for you guys that you can seperate from your larger life and marriage, but for women it is inextricably linked to our larger life and what's going on in our marriage.

  31. Why is divorce the only option you can see in the toolbox Speechless?

    Are you sure that you're actually picking a fight with me, or am I just a crash test dummy for your own thoughts?

    I've made it absolutely clear I am pro-marrige. If you believe otherwise you are purposely not hearing me.

  32. You ask an interesting question, but I am coming at it from a slightly different angle. Your presumption is that the wife has lost her interest and the husband wants to "fix" things. In my case it's me (the husband) who has lost interest. I've fallen out of love.

    I know I've fallen out of love because things that were "somewhat annoying, but worth it" are now just annoying – and there's no upside to it.

    *She's a lousy housewife. At home full time for the past year, laundry can go unfolded or dishes uncleaned for days. Often I have to start it when I get home from work and demand she comes and helps in some way.

    *She doesn't care for her physical appearance. No makeup, frumpy clothes, and she's really put on the pounds. (Not 10 extra – serious weight). It turned out she was only thin and athletic when we met because her best friend liked to rollerblade and they went every day. Since they stopped hanging out, nothing. And she's actually told me I shouldn't care about that.

    *I take nutrition and exercise seriously, only buy healthy food for the family and work out regularly. She goes behind my back to buy chocolate bars, M&Ms and ice cream and might use one of my yoga DVDs once a week, at best. This is related to the lack of exercise and weight gain.

    *She's an introvert and I'm an extrovert. Neither of these are bad, but it means we are frequently unable to agree on what to do. If we hang out with people she quickly gets overwhelmed and either whines to me that she wants to leave just as I'm having the most fun, or will actually take out her iPhone and play MafiaWars as a way of ignoring the stimulation of hanging out with my friends. Yeah, that's not awkward for me at all. Or we stay home and I climb the walls.

    *She likes playing computer/video games, watching crime drams on TV, and watching/talking about teams sports (mostly MLB baseball). I detest all of these things (the last TV show I really enjoyed was Firefly). I'd rather go surfing, or for a walk around the neighborhood, or play pool at a local bar.

    Naturally it's the personality and interest differences that bother me the most. I don't find her physically attractive any more, but in theory that could change if she lost the weight and dressed better. Her transmogrifying into an extrovert who likes to exercise is incredibly less likely however. Probably impossible.

    So why am I still hanging around? My son. He just turned 1, and he's the most awesome little dude in the whole world. When he charges at me for a hug it's the best part of my day, bar none. And I know if I left her she would take him back to her home state where her family is and her professional skills commands a higher salary. I figure I owe it to him to at least try to hang around for a bit and see if the feelings come back. After all, I did love her once – maybe it could happen again. Seems unlikely given the above, but you bet on long shots when no better option presents itself.

    When do I divorce her? Damned if I know.

  33. Athol Kay says:

    Hi Gulliver – you had some comment dupilication so kept the one that seemed the most intentional. No problem, just explaning.

    So much going wrong here.

    The obvious problem is that she is basically quitting on being an adult to be a SAHM that doesn't do her job.

    The weight and appearance is an issue as well.

    I think you have to start lowering the boom on this crappy behavior. Her behavior is somewhat beyond what I'm typically talking about. Usually I'm talking about a wife that is a least functional as an adult and there's a love / sexual interest issue.

    If she's just bailing on being an adult and plans you to pay for that forever, then you probably need to address that very quickly.

    Have you talked about this with her? Does she know how out of love with her you feel?

  34. Hi Athol,

    Sorry for the duplicates. Blogger gave me a bunch of error messages so I thought they hadn't gone through. Thanks for cleaning it up.

    We had a pretty nasty fight about all this about a month ago. Her behavior has improved some since then, but there's so much wrong with the picture I'm not sure what my expectations should be. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect small changes from someone, but big changes are often out of reach over any reasonable length of time. Just human nature.

    But does she know the full extent of how out of love I feel? I don't think so. Part of the reason for that is that I had thought (and told her) I was just starved for sex (because she basically stopped having it a few months into her pregnancy). After our fight a month ago I managed to "get some", and it was only after that that I started to realize how much the sex was a red herring. I wanted sex generally but not with her. It was also only after that that I realized that the lack of sex had not been my primary concern – just the most obvious one.

    I'm hestitant to tell her though. I'm not ready to pull the plug yet, and I'm afraid if I let on to the full extent of my disappointment she'll think the odds are insurmountable and take my son and a chunk of my paycheck back home with her. I'm not ready to give up on him yet. So I kinda/sorta hope that I can induce her to make this progress today, and that progress tomorrow, and maybe over time she improves to the point where we can have a functional relationship again.

    On the other hand, maybe I'm just delaying the inevitable. If she improves on X today, and tomorrow I tell her "okay, great, now Y and Z need work", she might feel like I have an endless list of expectations and bail anyway – just six months from now. I don't know what the odds are of this strategy working but we should attempt difficult things for our kids I guess.

    P.S. Please don't quote or link to these comments to make a front page post. Too many personal details. I know I've mentioned this blog to her a couple months ago and I have no idea if she follows the RSS feed for not. Thanks.

  35. Athol Kay says:

    I'd start looking for marriage counselors then. There's a lot going on here.

  36. Anonymous says:

    Great advice to Gulliver; your heart's STILL in this somewhere, Gulliver, and I recommend professional help too.

    Some good advice in this post, but I hate the game-playing angle of "Look, other women want me". The bottom line was good, that no one outside the marriage can tell you when to leave (it still amazes me people are desperate enough to ask a stranger that). Your medical advice is especially good, Athol.

    Glad you worked things out Speechless, but I side with Deansdale. And the masturbation thing is just..gross and blah in a marriage for that amount of time.

    "Speechless do you realize how near impossible that is to do? I have had contact with people that have had years of sexual refusal and have had their spirit crushed and broken by someone that supposedly should love them the most of anyone in the world"

    RIGHT-ON. There's a great anti-feminist book by Suzanne Venker, which explains that to deny sex consistently to a man is like denying physical affection to a woman.

    Jennifer 6

  37. My ex husband took my low libido during "the baby years". as a permanent state. After bullying me and whining, he gave up on me to lead a double life, cheating on me for 10 years before I found out. The babies turned into special needs kids, and I believed him when he blamed my frigidity, which I only now realize was because he did nothing to turn me on, or try to be attractive to me.

    Note to unhappy husbands: you don't get sex at home if you demand adoration from your wife, don't clean up your own game, and spend 10 years on the down low.

    Once I found out (and also lost 35 pounds), he became depressed and angry, went on the wrong meds, and had a psychotic episode. I had to get a restraining order, and he filed for divorce a week later. After long discussions with my therapist, I counter-filed.

    I don't know if Athol's words would have helped us — there were a lot of problems that had nothing to do with sex.

    Z

  38. Dr.Strangelove says:

    Speechless states: “Both my husband and I have gone through long periods where we were not interested in sex. Unfortunately we were never in sync at those times. I’ve had to go without and so has he. We discussed it and decided that we were going to do OTHER things together to keep us “bonded”.

    Ok, just my .02

    Speechless, says, “Other” things to keep us “Bonded.”

    Basketball? Walks? Really? Ok, fine.

    When you state there were long periods where you wanted sex but your husband didn’t and vice-versa, I assume you both masturbated alone. (If you didn’t, then you can ignore the rest of my post.)

    Therefore, a “lone masturbater” in a sexless relationship with an otherwise loving/caring “uninterested” spouse might want to ask themselves this; If one were indeed previously “sexually in-sync” at times during their marriage, would it be psychologically and/or physically traumatizing for the “uninterested” spouse to simply lay with, caress and kiss them while they masturbated during his/her “low-interest” dry-spell, (instead of shooting hoops, walking, basketweaving or whatever?) Of course not, right?

    It’s the ASKING for that simple, caring intimacy that’s scary, right? It’s the request to lay with us while we masturbate that’s unsettling, because if they reject us flat-out, or look at us like we’ve got three heads (instead of saying “sure, i can do that”) that’ll sting, and sting big it will; because instead of giving us the closeness we crave, they’d rather shoot hoops.

    This is why I’ll challenge anyone who is the sex-starved “masturbater” in a relationship to ask their “assumed loving, caring yet uninterested in sex significant other” that very simple request:

    “Honey, I know you’re not into sex right now, but can you lay with me and kiss me while I masturbate?”

    That simple question will expose quite quickly whether the source of “sexual disinterest” is really related to something benign to the relationship itself or, rather, something else, like punishment or control (whether conscious or not)…

    Sometimes theres “lack of interest,” sometimes there’s “avoidance of closeness,” and sometimes there’s straight-up “control.”

    Staying together in a “sexless” marriage for years “for the kids” is questionable, IMO. (Again, it’s just my opinion, so flame-away if you must).

    As if kids were imperceptive to such things. To assume that the sexual intimacy doesn’t permeate beyond the bedroom is a joke. I would like to think even children can tell the difference between sexually-bonded parents and basketweaving-bonded parents, and the difference might be more striking than one imagines.

    Again, just my .02

    DOC

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  1. [...] 2. Sex inside marriage is a good thing. Sexless marriages have consequences — divorce, adultery or p0rn. [...]

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