Sexy Move: Ladies Before Gentlemen

According to the Hite Report which I read off my mother’s bookshelf when I was ten or eleven… and by “read” I mean “furiously masturbated to”, only around 30% of women ever experience an orgasm from just stimulation from the penis. That’s lifetime 30% , plus only around a third of those only managing the feat a handful of times.
I forget where I read it, but the essential problem is that the clitoris is located away from the entry to the vagina. So the majority of penile thrusting misses the mark so to speak. If the clitoris is an inch or more away from the vagina, there’s very little chance she will ever have an orgasm from just penile thrusting. In some senses the clitoris is in a stupid location… I mean if I was designing a woman from scratch I would have about ten clitoris’s in a ring around the entry to the vagina and about seventy five inside it. Three firm thrusts and I figure I’d be her deity. But then again you wouldn’t want to accidentally tear it off during childbirth either, so maybe it’s about as close as it can get.
Anyway…. via Post Secret
To be sure some nights she’s going to be cool with not orgasming, but she needs to say that before you lube her up and have your fun. Really – some nights they just like having you close and happy without her worrying about hitting the high notes. (Ideally the reason is she is still a little tender from the night before nudge nudge wink wink say no more.)
Otherwise you have to ring her bell. No option on this at all. If she’s expecting orgasm, you really have to try and make that happen. Once or twice missing the goal is fine, it happens, but if it becomes anything like the norm, she will start to detest you.
The problem is that in a real sense for most couples, once the man blows his load, sex is over. He loses his hard on, the oxytocin hits and he starts falling asleep leaving her halfway to nowhere. So the options are simple – use your fingers or your tongue and get her there before you even slip yourself inside her. Or get her 80-90% of the way there and have her climb on you and finish herself off. Go shopping together and find a toy that works for her. But once you get her off as many times as she wants, you get to have your fun.
The real upside is that after orgasm the woman is usually much wetter and more excited about having a cock inside her. Two or three orgasms and they literally start craving being filled. Which by all accounts is more enjoyable for the man to be dealing with than the waves of “hatred and resentment” pulsing from the silent still body beneath them.
And yes. I blame my mother for my filthy filthy mind.


  1. I highly doubt that the clitoris doesn't get stimulation from intercourse. I'd say it is at a perfect location to receive stimulation. The man's mound directly pressed the whole clitoral area, making it hard not to make good contact.

    With my wife there is no expectation of orgasm [what Roosh recommended]. And when I come, it doesn't mean the sex has ended. I stay in bed with her until I get hard again, and we start again. The second time is always better than the first.

    As an end note, there is a University of Michigan study that says the risk of yeast infections for women goes up if they receive cunnilingus. Therefore if your women suffers from yeast, you might consider not doing this. The problem seems to be with the saliva. If she gives you a blowjob and then you enter her, it might again increase the risk, but the study didn't talk about this.

  2. presses*

    The Captcha says 'mating'. Quite fitting. :)

  3. I'm not sure Roosh had long term relationships / wives in mind when he said that.

  4. Great advice Athol. In case it helps someone, I'll mention the things I've found work to bring women to reliable vaginal orgasm:

    1. Get her thinking about sex early in the day. This will cut your work load in half, at least.

    2. Finger her to orgasm a couple of times. Alternate between the clit and G spot, adjusting your speed and pressure according to how softly/furiously she is pumping your cock in return. She doesn't know she's giving this clue, but she wants it exactly like she's giving it.

    3. Be unpredictable in your thrusting patterns, kissing, touching (except when she is actually about to blow — then you should hold steady with whatever you were doing to get her there). Unpredictability = her mind working overtime, wondering what you'll do next = excitement.

    4. With the usual caveat that all women are different and you have to try different things to please each one, this has become my go-to move because it works on so many women. As she gets more excited, increase the pressure that the top of your shaft exerts on the roof of her vagina. Experiment with shifting your hips forward (toward her head) and pulling your body up and away from hers to keep the pressure strong. The right amount of pressure can actually be slightly uncomfortable for you, as the base of your cock is being pried away from its point of attachment to your pubic bone (stretching the suspensory ligament of the penis), but this discomfort has the benefit of delaying your own orgasm long enough to get her off a few times.

  5. Easiest way to give a woman the kind of orgasm she likes best – get her to masturbate in front of you, and observe the kinds of movements and pressure she uses on herself.

  6. Seems like 10 years ago, everyone knew this, that it's usually been to give the girl an orgasm before intercourse starts, but now guy-written blogs and even some girl-written blogs seem to assume that sex isn't really outstanding unless she comes from thrusting alone.

    Would be interesting to hear some female views on this. Is it a lot more pleasurable if orgasm happens during penetration as opposed to finger/tongue induced climax followed by penetration?

    Doubt if we can totally trust what women say about this IRL since they may just be trying to be nice (or to avoid the risk of guy trying to do it via intercourse, failing, and leaving them high & wet)

  7. that was supposed to be "usually BEST to give the girl an orgasm before intercourse starts"

  8. Anon@11:04: For me and most women, orgasm from penetration alone just doesn't happen. The "vaginal" orgasm is pretty much a myth altho one that refuses to die. I can guarantee every male reader that we at some time or another have faked for you guys, either to just get it over with or to avoid hurting your feelings. I'm not saying this to offend, it's just the way we're made (poor design; return to manufacturer!).

    What works: the methods Athol listed – use fingers, tongue, vibrators; also google a position called "grinding the corn." And ladies first is a good basic rule, altho not cast in stone. That exalted G spot? Not all of us like it (painful for me personally) or even have much in this area.

  9. I'd love the "ladies first" rule, except my wife is so sensitive after her first orgasm that I can't get anywhere near her.

    I'll do the oral thing but if she orgasms, she would rather jerk me off than have intercourse… she's just to sensitive down there.

  10. The vaginal orgasm is definitely not a myth. Nine times out of ten I have no problem "getting there" through intercourse done missionary style. My problem is I can't get off any other way. Would love to be able to climax in woman-on-top position or any other position, but, it doesn't work for me. Also, Hubby is spoiled since he knows I'm "easy" with plain old missionary thrusting. Maybe if I 'lose' my mojo all of a sudden it will cause him to try harder in other positions.

  11. Anon@11:22: After reading Our Bodies, Ourselves as a kid, I too learned that most women rarely if ever have vaginal orgasms and that, as a man, I should resign myself to that. Then I found out that women are more likely to conceive when they have a vaginal orgasm (Ridley, 1993). And I read that women orgasm more when their partners are rich (Nettle, 2009) and facially symmetric (Thornhill, 1995). And I heard experienced women talk about how easy it was to orgasm vaginally when they were young and in love, but how those days are gone. I found that I was able to give maybe 70% of my lovers regular vaginal orgasms. The picture got clearer: women orgasm and have babies with high sex rank men; their bodies are less receptive when they're with so-so men.

    Now do you understand the male obsession with female vaginal orgasm? And do you see the crucial difference between "most women don't have vaginal orgasms" and "most women can't have vaginal orgasms"?

    Anon@11:04: women have described vaginal orgasms to me as more intense, longer lasting, and accompanied by powerful visual imagery (fireworks, lightbulbs blinking rapidly, lightning, streaks of light… it's interesting that similar visual imagery descriptions pop up among different girls). I've noticed that giving a girl clitoral orgasms keeps her coming around for fun; giving her vaginal orgasms makes her deeply attached to me. The difference in post-coital clinginess is incredible.

    P.s. "Grinding the corn" (or "riding high") is very similar to what I was describing above. But I put less emphasis on clitoral stimulation and more emphasis on the vaginal roof.

  12. Anon@2:47: you are one of a very small minority, you're a lucky lady!

    Marcus: I ain't buying any of that, sorry! We ladies tend to bullshit as much as the men do when it comes to sex talk, and it's a point of honor to insist that you just come all the time from penile thrusting alone – we more honest ones say, nuh uh- doesn't work that way for me! Those women who said all that to you are trying to impress you with their male approved version of feminine sexuality.

    If your lady is having orgasms because you're a rich man, it's the thought of a shopping spree at Tiffany's that's causing the laser show, probably not your penis. Golddiggers roll that way.

    Men shouldn't feel inadequate that they can't "give" women orgasms – as the wise Mr. Kay has said on this blog, women have to take responsibility for their own orgasm and that means some honest communication (and reciprocation).

  13. alutzu @ cornerparadise says:

    i`m agree with yours ideea…

  14. I love penis says:

    @Samvel about cunnilingis: If you get the guy to brush his teeth and mouthwash before going down there, that can help ward off infection. Bonus? Having extra-fresh breath helps minimize the taste of vag if you want to kiss her afterwards.

    @Anon about woman on top: I couldn't "get there" this way for a long time, either. All kinds of small changes–from the depth of penetration to the spread of your legs to how far forward you're leaning–can make a huge difference. My husband was glad to lay still and be my "toy" a few times, which helped me figure out what I needed.

    OK, but about this penile orgasm debate: 9.99 times out of 10, my husband's penis produces a great orgasm for me. We have foreplay that involves kisses, tongue, etc. on my body…but the only thing that touches me down there is penis. Is that not a "penis-only" orgasm? Or is it one with no foreplay whatsoever?

  15. A vaginal (or G-Spot) orgasm is dependent on a woman's mental state much more than a clitoral orgasm. And that required mental state is a deep desire to submit, specifically to a man who exercises power over her.

    And while such a man could never be a Nice Guy ™, he could be a nice guy who also had the CAPACITY to be a thug, and who NEVER put her on a pedestal, and who physically controlled her as he wished.

    But, since women have created such huge legal risks for masculine, but good, men, they now may have to get these needs satisfied by the local biker gang.

    And what is it with all of this manual labor when it comes to getting her past the first few orgasms? Haven't you guys heard of the Industrial Revolution?

    Just tie her to the bed, tie one of those big Hitachi wands on top of her clit, and come back in 4-6 hours. ;-)

  16. If your lady is having orgasms because you're a rich man, it's the thought of a shopping spree at Tiffany's that's causing the laser show, probably not your penis.

    When you start making his points for him (while thinking of them as your own points), you are in the reading comprehension danger zone.

  17. 1) Are we sure that the lady who wrote the PostSecret card was complaining about not 'finishing' or was she complaining about and resenting the beta-ish apologizing?
    2)We have the same problem as Anonymous at 1:02PM. She is very sensitive after, and says "When I'm finished, You're finished"

  18. Oh probably both. It's lame on top of bad really.

    If the wife is ultra sensitive post orgasm, then you work around that. Not all women are the same. It's a minority problem though.

  19. After wife has an orgasm, she's finished. Way too sensitive to continue, so for us, it's get her 90% of the way there and then continue with PIV.

  20. Susan Walsh says:

    I don't believe the vaginal orgasm exists. It's all clitoral. Some women can get the necessary stimulation to the clitoris with indirect stimulation, i.e. various sex positions, and others need direct. Although there are a few women who don't like receiving oral, I'd say that it's the absolute favorite way to get off for most women. Fingers work, obviously, as we're used to our own, but honestly, there's nothing like a soft mouth…
    There's been a lot of research on the orgasm gap – especially in hooking up. (Women orgasm only about 19% of the time, compared to 80% of the time in relationships.) It is almost entirely attributed to women giving oral frequently and receiving it far less frequently. Yet another reason to avoid casual sex.
    In my experience, getting the woman off first is essential if oral is on the menu, because most men are less than enthusiastic about encountering their own cum.

  21. I believe it's harder to orgasm when you're drunk too Susan, that may have some effect on the hook up data.

    Interestingly… aren't all these hook ups meant to be with panty drenching alpha males pounding the ladies into orgasming jello yada yada yada… ?

  22. Is there a positive correlation between feminist leanings and not having had a vaginal orgasm? Just curious…

  23. Anon@10:43

    I know, I know, "real" woman just require a manly penis to orgasm! 5 minutes of thrusting from start to finish; sorry, no!
    Actually the more "traditional" and conservative women that I've known have been the "sex! ewwwww, dirty!" type. Several told me they never had an orgasm until their late thirties – after they divorced. Don't fear the clit!

  24. Interesting to see what romance novels have to say on this, since they seem to tap into the female sexual subconscious pretty well. I've only read about 5 of these; IIRC there was only one in which orgasm happened pre-penetration (and also IIRC in the same book there were later orgasms during intercourse without a lot of foreplay first)

    If these are typical (PhD thesis topic for someone in here) it'd suggest that women who've experienced orgasm from thrusting alone liked it better and those who haven't think they'd like it better.

  25. Dear feminists who have not had vaginal orgasms: A simple "yes, that's me" or "no, that's not me" would suffice.

    (5 minutes of thrusting from start to finish? You have no idea how much fore-planning and mental and physical effort is required of a guy who wants to give his girl vaginal orgasms. If 5 minutes of thrusting has been your experience, no wonder you haven't got there. I empathize.)

  26. I'm not sure how realistically romance novels portray the path to female orgasm. Many women need long stimulation of a certain kind to make it happen.

  27. Only 30%? I guess I am really lucky… Jane has vaginal orgasms pretty easily and does so every time we have sex.

    @Susan – My wife's favorite position is face down with her legs together, not a position that would stimulate the clitorous directly or indirectly (though I'm not sure how the internal clitoral arms might play into it). Believe!  ;o)

  28. It's very unusual Dick. Enjoy it.

  29. Anonymous says:

    I totally agree on lady comes first principle. When we were younger my wife always came orally before or middle of every time we did it. Overtime she was able to extend her oral orgasm longer because clit does get sensistive.

    She always craved penetration afterwards which works great. Over time she became more and more orgasmic from deep penatration to back wall of her vagina. In her 40s I can't even describe how multi orgasmic she has become. Now she comes so hard and so often from deep vaginal Os that oral is just an extra special treat added to mix it up.

    Deep vaginal orgasms definitely do exist but feel different to her than clitoral Os.. Research does show there are different nerve bundles at work on different types of Os

  30. Just read this and my comment just has to do with myself. I am now wondering if I am totally off in my responses. To be clear, I orgasm with penetration 99.99% of the time. I adore the missionary position of all positions (to have my husband's body over me is a lovely feeling of surrender and it makes me notice his masculinity more). I don't find it necessary to have multiple orgasms. The one I have with his penis is extremely satisfying and thorough. Yes,I have had multiple orgasms at times but it is more like an initial slow wave that led to another wave. I am just fine with the one giant wave. I wondered at one time if this idea of multiple orgasms had more to do with the guy feeling he is a better lover if he can bring this about but my experience is that a really good one can be more than enough. I am all for some of the other ways of stimulation but I enjoy them more as foreplay. I think I might just be a woman that finds she is not happy unless the man is inside of her. The idea of masturbating in front of him so he can get ideas from that doesn't make any sense to me. When masturbating I don't go about building to a climax the same way as with my husband in me. I find masturbation rather functional and a bit boring. If my man is right there, give me that penis (and the chest and arms and butt…). That's way more fun. Strangely, I seem to do better orgasmically if my nipples are stimulated a lot but can't bear to have them touched right after I orgasm. My husband doesn't get it and tries to continue to stimulate me post orgasm and it can kill the post orgasm glow. I think I must be very penis focused (is that a real phrase?) because even when masturbating I enjoy it a lot more with a realistic feeling sex toy and hate vibrators because they are annoying (my brain goes" real penises don't vibrate they thrust and fill ,etc."). The one man mentioned a variety of movements and that seems a real plus to me as it feels as if the penis is being presented to me in a variety of stimulating ways until we get to the last part and then I love to focus and stop switching it up. Maybe I am a sexual submissive because I like it when my husband decides the sexual position, or if in missionary position moves me around a bit by picking my hips up or shoulders up to position me where he wants me or holds my wrists down. Hmmm, that is another topic…

  31. If you orgasm from penetration 99.99% of the time you have a sexual experience that likely 99% of women can only hope to dream of.

    You're fine. You can tell him to stop stimulating you post orgasm if it doesn't work for you.

  32. Anonymous says:

    Is there any link between female orgasm from thrusting and the size of the penis? I've had a few women tell me that they had never had an orgasm from regular intercourse before, and they attributed having one with me to penis size.

  33. Anonymous says:

    Anonymous I think we might be similar for me oral sex and fingers are just foreplay and I adore feeling my husband inside of me and I had never seen an erection I don't want to…tame.

    I enjoy giving oral sex more than receiving it although I must say even if I'm penis focused I rather had him pump me first and be done and then stimulate the clitoris to get off, for some reason I can't get off with penetration alone. I might be spoiled because I masturbated like this since I was very young, but having the penis inside before the clit stimulation and feeling the semen all wet inside of me, makes me get off on a more powerful satisfying way…Is very funny because my husband was trying to follow the rule of she comes first with me, and he was very surprised of me being that different and preferring penis and missionary to everything else(well the missionary might be because I hate feeling my back cold but then the feeling of his weight on top of me is very arousing too, cowgirl makes me feel alone and unprotected) we women are all different indeed.

  34. Anonymous says:

    44 yo female here. Vaginal penetration driven orgasm was a myth for me in youth until I met up with my future husband (high level of passionate attachment & intimacy) and he put me on top. Then it took no more than 5 minutes for me -with much more clitoral stimulation as opposed to missionary. I love the missionary as well for the sheer alpha male power it portends. Having said that, I have become accustomed to being on top (his back is very bad) and can still orgasm esp when eager anticipation is involved.
    I am pretty certain that the missionary could not have provided as many opportunities. It is definitely desired but frequently unobtainable.

  35. Anonymous says:

    You could try desensitizing cream for that project…until you get on top. And…if he is into you then losing your mojo should do it.

  36. Anonymous says:

    Disagree about your gold-digger theory. Rich conveys power and women love men with power.

  37. Anonymous says:

    The myth refuses to die because the desire for it is still very prominent. For me, I would much rather have my chosen's real, throbbing hard vellum inside me anyway over a plastic or rubber vibrator. The emotional attachment inclusive makes for a very steamy session that a vibrator cannot fulfill.

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