Orgasm Self Control And Rough Sex

Email from a mysterious “Beau Nertaun”.
Dear Athol,
First of all, thank you for enriching my life with a terrific blog. I have been reading it daily for the last six months or so, and I greatly enjoy it. I am not married, but I still know wisdom when I see it. I reckon when I do get around to marriage, it will be better because of your wisdom. So thanks!
I’m writing about your recent article on rough sex (great pic, as usual). I hope I will be able to contribute a little something to the issue of endurance while roughing it, which would be my pleasure after you’ve contributed so much to my understanding of relationships. This is a forte of mine, and a subject on which many men have sought my advice. I won’t go on trying to qualify myself, because I think my four bits of advice will speak for themselves.
1) Practice makes permanent. (Only perfect practice makes perfect.) Every masturbation session is practice, whether you think of it that way or not. Rushing to beat off and get back to your day conditions your whole sexual apparatus to blow a quick load. Bad idea. I recommend keeping an eye on the clock (how many minutes is an individual judgment) to condition yourself for endurance.
2) Self control requires self awareness. From discussing this issue with many men, I gather that most men are not aware of their level of excitement until it’s too late. I advise them to think of their arousal on a 10-scale, where 6 is a usable erection and 10 is the point of no return. Try to stay at 7. If you get to 8, try to bring it back to 7. It feels better to be at 8, and even better to go to 9, but that’s playing with fire. First make sure she’s satisfied, then play around with 8 and 9 all you want.
The point of this framework is to develop awareness. Once that’s developed, you don’t really need to think in terms of numbers–you are just very aware of your level of arousal and thus have better control. But I think the numbers help at first.
3) The breath controls the body. Keeping an even and steady breath helps self control. Combining this with point 2) above is potent. Get to 9, and you might have to pause for a minute to get back to 7. But a retreat from 8 to 7 can be accomplished with deep breath and intense focus (point 4), even while keeping a vigorous pumping full pace.
4) Focus on something. Common advice includes baseball or finances, but I do not recommend this. From my experience, focusing on such unrelated things takes you out of the experience, which reduces your pleasure and hers (women are usually very empathically connected during sex, so she can tell if you’re not fully into it). It also interferes with your self awareness of your state of arousal, which is directly counterproductive to the goal here.
I have a very particular focus that most people won’t relate to, but put in general terms I would say duty. It is my duty, my mission, to satisfy the woman I am with completely. To make her come so hard, so many times, that she is left happily incapacitated. Focus on this mission does not take me out of the experience–obviously, it puts me right in it. But it’s not super arousing either, to think of it as a duty. If anything, it applies a stern introspection against too much arousal too soon. Personally, I find that this keeps me in the experience, allows me fully to enjoy my woman’s excitement, and keeps me from getting too aroused before it’s appropriate.
Visual focus can also make a big difference for us men. I recommend focusing on something nice that keeps you in the experience but doesn’t escalate your excitement too much. For example, her shoulder or her hair, but not her bouncing tits or ass. I mean, it’s awesome to look at all that stuff, but if you start escalating to 8 and 9 you need to look elsewhere.
This advice all pertains to rough sex. Obviously there’s another way to avoid orgasm–you slow down and make love to her instead of fucking her brains out. And women like being made love to, it’s true. But you won’t give a girl mind-blowing orgasms by making slow love to her (except, of course, insofar as making slow love to her primes her for a serious orgasm once you get vigorous).
This advice also all pertains to self control. Self control is obviously not enough all by itself–it is but one necessary ingredient. Callous pumping like a porn star won’t get girls off (Exhibit A to why I hate porn). Jerky hip movements like an average white guy won’t get many girls off either. There’s a reason that most girls never come from straight sex, and the reason is sure as hell not that they can’t. But self control is a bottle neck for a lot of people.
There it is–my self-control advice in a nutshell! I hope you find it useful, and you can of course post any or all of this if you like. Thanks again for your great work!
P.S. On the off chance you mention me, please substitute “Beau Nertaun” for my name! I’m in a conservative profession =)
The only thing I disagree with is the idea that all women can orgasm from vaginal intercourse, many simply can’t. I am very familiar with the sense of “I can coast on an 8 forever” and pushing up to 9 and 10 is at will for the most part. Sometimes if stimulation goes on too long finding the exact stimulation to get to orgasm is difficult though. Usually I switch to a highly stimulating position then.
I think one of the most important things with self control is physical fitness. I suspect that for a cross section of men their body just decides to get the exertion of sex over as quickly as possible. Plus the concern in my prior post that if it’s been a long time since last sex that there is a natural desire to ejaculate faster than you may have limited control over.
Thanks for the submission. Much appreciated.

Comments

  1. Beau Nertaun says:

    I am honored that you posted my letter! I'm also fortunate to be one of the first to post a response.

    To clarify, I reckon plenty of women simply cannot come from intercourse, and I'm not batting 1.000 either. But I think that percentage is way lower than the two-thirds of the population stat I have read about so often. Maybe I have a skewed statistical sample–the kinda girl that I'd sleep with, and that'd sleep with a kinda guy like me. But from all I've experienced first hand and heard about second hand, I think that more women would be capable of coming from sex but don't because 1) the guy underperforming, and/or 2) she's not doing her part to explore new things and get into it (homage to a recent post by our host).

    Anyway, I am honored, and I hope this makes some people happier!

  2. Anonymous says:

    what a hot picture

  3. David Collard says:

    "Visual focus can also make a big difference for us men. I recommend focusing on something nice that keeps you in the experience but doesn't escalate your excitement too much. For example, her shoulder or her hair, but not her bouncing tits or ass."

    I like seeing my wife's feet bounce as I fuck her with her knees up. Good tip on focussing on something attractive, but not too sexy though, to maintain control.

    That said, I think this is all getting too complicated. It should not be rocket science. Just fuck her.

  4. Athol Kay says:

    David – "That said, I think this is all getting too complicated. It should not be rocket science. Just fuck her."

    Gotta remember some of my readers are struggling to even have sex with their wives. If you're getting sex for the first time in weeks, the trigger happy thing is pretty serious.

  5. David Collard says:

    My last comment did not get through, but perhaps it is just as well, as it was a bit raunchy. I did want to offer some advice to husbands whose wives won't give it up often enough. First, work on your "game" so that she respects you. That will make her want to get affection from you. If you want sex, hold back on the affection a bit. When she wants affection, make it contingent on sex. This works for me. The woman seduces herself. You don't have to wheedle. Just let her desire for affection make her want to give you sex to get the affection.

    A lot of women aren't that desperate for sex. But they all want affection. Or, if they don't, you have a bigger problem that lack of sex.

  6. David, that kind of tactic is pretty transparent, and can easily come off as, "The only reason I want affection from you is so I can get laid; I really have no interest in any affectionate touch or speech with you that's not leading to sex." It's basically as bad as withholding sex to get affection.

  7. jacques haugh says:

    I'd have to agree with all four of these points above. Growing up in a religion that abstained from women, I exclusively whacked off. When I finally gave the religion up, I found that my stamina was no good. Practice while whacking off made a huge difference for me.

    As far as point 2 goes. I'd also add that for me, the move from 8-10 happens much more rapidly than a move from, say, 5-7. However I've also found that that the 8-10 range is really critical for my long term stamina, and that dipping into it and then bringing myself back out of it usually increases my overall performance. It's not the most manliest thing on earth, but taking yoga really helped me with this as it focuses heavily on breathing under exertion.

    I think a lot of my stamina issues are about physical fitness. I used to be in decent shape, and now I am not. In the transition, I've noticed a huge impact on my sexual ability. For any guy out there who has never been in good shape, do it. It increases your sexual performance by a long-shot.

  8. Anonymous says:

    what is the optimal time to last what 15-20 minutes. sometimes it isnt my ejaculatory endurance. It just that after a while the rest of my body starts to hurt while doing most of the work. But i would like an answer to my first question.

  9. Athol Kay says:

    You're asking me how your wife likes sex Anon? :-D

    Just experiment and see what she responds best too.

  10. Great advice, love it. The physical endurance thing is spot-on. I've noticed a severe decline in my performance when I exercise less. I find that physical fitness impacts the strength and enthusiasm (or lack thereof) of my erection, too.

    I like David's comment too. I agree with Alex that some behaviors that dress up as "game" come off as petulant. But for the most part, gaming your wife / girlfriend is key to her arousal. To address Alex's point head on: there's a difference between refusing your wife hugs and demanding sex in return (petulant) and just refraining from being too enthusiastic and too unilaterally touchy-feely as you grow more desperate for sex (game).

    In other words: men who are hard-up for sex tend to compensate by constantly stroking their girl's backs, grabbing her hands, kissing her, etc. It's over-crowding the girl, who usually grows cold. Men desperate for sex should keep their physical-affectionate distance until the girl comes looking for them. That's the discipline. When she craves your touch, she'll crave all of it.

  11. Anonymous says:

    Practice pays off I'm very lucky to have an extremely multi orgasic wife and OMG now in her mid 40s something has clicked in and I never thought she could come this hard and often and intensely from intercourse alone but it's true. Our great sex life has gone thru the roof. Date night, sexy dressing, lots of flirting, teasing and foreplay beforehand = we are ripping our clothes off coming through the door (or in the car). Pressure at the deepest spot of her vagina sends her over edge quickly. An amazing emotional connection between us.

  12. David Collard says:

    I don't know whether holding back (a bit!) on affection to get what you want in bed (I like her to get me ready orally and finish in her vagina) is too harsh. But it is way better than living with a woman who won't provide sex (I find it completely incredible that there are women who do that to men, and "men" who tolerate it.)

    My wife found some of my comments on these blogs recently. Do you want to know her reaction? Nothing. She wasn't bothered. Of course "game" is artificial, but it works. A push-up bra is also artificial, and it works. A man or woman can know all about the artifices of the opposite sex, but this does not prevent them from still having an effect.

  13. Beau Nertaun says:

    Anon, if 15-20 minutes is taxing the rest of your body, then definitely physical fitness is the key here. Tricks for lasting longer in bed won't help if the fundamentals are missing.

    The best exercise is something you enjoy. That way, you'll actually look forward to it and do it. As long as it gets your breath/heart rate up and makes your muscles tired, it's a hell of a lot better than nothing!

    If you're used to exercising vigorously for 60-90 minutes at a time, 15-20 will feel comfortable and easy by comparison. Start your exercise routine gradually and carefully, to make sure you don't get hurt–but start it this week!

  14. David, by your own description, you find it unimaginable that a wife would withhold sex from her husband – does that mean you've rarely or never had occasion to lower affection levels in order to encourage your wife to have sex with you?

    As a woman, it reads to me like either the tactic of someone who's only ever used it extraordinarily sparingly, or someone who's in a seriously troubled relationship; as a woman who knows what it's like to go through a period of really truly having no libido at all (fuck, I detest certain birth control pills), it's a tactic I would hate to have used on me, especially because physical affection and closeness that's only mildly sexual is often what's needed to turn me on when I'm in a dry spell, whereas any awareness I have that I can *only* have affection if I'm ready to have sex will make me pull away, because sometimes I just can't get aroused enough to fuck, no matter how much I would like to.

    There are, of course, a number of unspoken assumptions in what I just posted:
    - a woman who isn't having sex because she doesn't want to have sex, as opposed to not wanting to have sex *with her partner* but would happily have sex with someone else
    - a woman who is willing to be gradually coaxed into being turned on even if she isn't feeling turned on right now, because she understands that her partner wants sex

    Something tells me you aren't working with those assumptions, but I do suspect that there are a lot of marriages where those are the circumstances for the woman, and either the man doesn't believe that and thinks she could have sex if she only tried hard enough (and won't take a hand or blow job as a compromise until her libido can work its way up/meds can be fixed/some quiet time can be found) or the woman doesn't know how to articulate the problem and just says, "I don't feel like it, but could you hold me for a while?" and the message doesn't get through.

  15. David Collard says:

    Alex, it is late here in Australia and I find your post hard to follow. But, yes, I think it incredibly mean of a woman to withhold sex from her husband without a good reason. I am not talking about sometimes not being in the mood. I am talking about wives who apparently coldly deny their husbands sex for long periods, turning them into emasculated chumps. They are bitches.

    My wife has always been generous. I am grateful for that.

    I give my wife plenty of affection. Every morning she gets the cuddle she wants for a while before we get up to face the day. All I do is, when I want sex (typically it is only on the weekend – we are now middle-aged), I hold off on the affection for about half an hour. I am a proud man, and I dislike the idea of begging my wife for sex, or negotiating it. So I like to have her make her up her mind to provide me with what I want. In return she gets the affection afterwards that she wants.

    It is late, and maybe I am grumpy, but could I suggest to you that many American women seem to think that they should hold ALL the cards in a relationship, and cry "foul" when a man tries to play even a single card.

  16. David, couple of things:

    I'm Australian.

    I think if you're thinking in terms of anyone having "cards" in the relationship, something's gone wrong and you're already in repair mode. I can't help but see relationships as too collaborative for there to be a power structure or a battle of wills – in a good relationship, both parties have the best interests of one another at heart (and it sounds like you're in that kind of relationship, which is great for you, so kudos) – they're holding the same cards and on the same team, so to speak. I realise this puts me at odds with some part of this blog's philosophy, and general "game" philosophy, but hey, it seems to have resulted in a happy relationship. If that collaborative spirit doesn't exist, all the affection tango isn't going to fix it, though it might result in more frequent sex with a side of emotional resentment. I think improving a relationship is about both finding a partner who is a collaborator and being a collaborator yourself; a woman who would withhold sex "just because" isn't a collaborator, and I highly doubt anything's going to change that. You sound like you're married to a collaborator, so your styles work together, but the key is that fundamentally she wants to work with you; with a combative wife who withholds sex for venom's sake (as opposed to for genuine emotional reasons that she's willing to work out – and I'm presuming a fundamentally good husband here), withholding affection is just going to intensify the battle and increase the venom.

    I don't really understand why negotiating sex isn't an attractive prospect, but then, in my mind, the "negotiating" conversation goes, "Hey", *kiss for a while*, *hands stray towards underwear*, "want to tonight?", and then if that isn't wanted, "Ok, how about we just do xyz for tonight instead?" It's kind of a sexy conversation. I can't fathom why people find negotiation unattractive or a source of diminished pride. It also seems vaguely counterintuitive to me to withhold affection in order to get it, though I certainly understand why it works – cat-string theory and all that. It's just that, given the collaborative mindset, I'd rather my partner just blatantly come on to me. If he withholds affection I'll probably just hug him and ask if he's ok; if he gives affection I'd be more likely to give it back.

    But then, I'm not a woman who withholds sex out of spite, so maybe my opinion on the phenomenon is irrelevant.

  17. I read somewhere, some years ago that the "general timeframe" for satisfying sex is 7-13 minutes of penis-in-vagina thrusting before orgasm.

    If you're a guy complaining about "doing all the work during sex," isn't doing all the work the alpha thing to do? Control her body and put her how and where you want her?

    If you don't want to do much work and still get laid, it's called "prostitutes," my friends.

  18. David Collard says:

    Alex

    All of what I said presupposes that the woman has respect for you, and therefore wants affection. Yes, I think my wife is fundamentally a collaborator, as you say, but that does not mean she is easy to deal with. She is bloody hard work. Even a woman who is fundamentally on your side is still going to be very difficult at times. Perhaps you are an unusually easy woman to live with, or perhaps you just don't see what the average man sees.

    I get constant remarks from my wife that there will be no more sex for me. Sorry to be crude, but my usual response is "I'll remind you of that the next time you have your legs in the air". She always supplies sex, despite her threats. Because I "game" her effectively. But I can easily imagine a man panicking or giving up faced with that kind of nonsense. And I can imagine, and sympathise with, men whose wives (I am led to believe) simply "shut up shop" on them.

    I suppose you are saying that a malevolent woman is impossible to deal with, no matter how cleverly a man "plays his cards". I suspect you are correct that my wife is actually one of the good ones. But I can assure you that, from a man's perspective, even the "easy" ones are still bloody hard work.

  19. Couples in bad marriages can get locked into a dance of negative interactions that just cycle around and around.

    I think after a certain point in marriage men that are actively gaming their wives can approach a zone where the interaction between husband and wife can cycle around in a positive version of interactions. From the outside it may look harsh, mean or cruel, but from the inside it's experienced as a intense connection and love.

    For example I tease Jennifer a lot. When I do so she tells me I'm a bad man and then snuggles into me. Then I tell her she likes me because I'm bad and she snuggles into me a little more. There's very rarely venom in my teasing, and usually my full attention is focused on her when I tease. It's a little one scene play we act out on average once a day. From the outside it likely looks like I really am mean to her, but she keeps stepping up to say her lines and snuggling into me. So she likes it.

  20. David Collard says:

    Men get into a nice guy spiral too, which can be a real passion killer. There is nothing wrong with being kind and tender. I am generally like this with my children. And sometimes with my wife. But wives seem to like a bit of "rough" or "harsh" from their husbands. Or they expect it. Or something. Most Western men should "up the alpha".

    My wife is not the most sensitive of women. I have found that rougher language and handling than I would have expected actually works best.

    She has recently found a lot of my blog comments and is in a tizz. But I am quite confident that the upshot will be "gina tingles" and no shortage of sexual interest on her part.

  21. Anonymous says:

    when it comes to love ,passion, romance,erotic times;there are no prof to the game.a couple of guys and ladies who thought they would prefer the rough sex at other times got confused after having a taste multiple intercouse.I mean if you think rough sex is the real thing,pls wait until you get it slow and steady before concluding.My experience with a lady i met at singles has given a reason to be thorough in researching anything before concluding.I used to be a fan of rough sex but now in a state of indiscision

  22. Anonymous says:

    I definitely got into the Nice Guy / beta spiral with my ex-wife. I didn't learn until after the divorce about Game, and it kills me. I think it might have saved my marriage.

    I stumbled across some emails I wrote her a couple of years ago while searching for an old email at work. It was when we were going through a rough patch (i.e., the marriage), and it was full of "Darling" this and "Baby" that. It made me sick — I nearly caught diabetes from the over-sweetness — but I was basically begging her to quit with the constant negativity and disdain she had for me. I had no idea that I was making it so much worse. How could she respect me as a man — i.e., someone who could protect her and our future children from evildoers — if I couldn't stand up to her? I honestly think a little bit of firm but controlled anger, and the withdrawal of affection, would have been far more effective than redoubled efforts at affection and sweetness. I thought I was demonstrating strengh by showing off my capacity to take whatever she threw at me. But what I was really doing was not defending myself and not demanding that she act like a good wife to me. By the time she left, she had no respect for me as a man, and thus our sex life was dead. And we're in our late-20's.

    People reading this will react that Barbara was a bitch, and that's probably true. But my extreme situation illustrates perfectly the theory David is expounding now. Chasing after a woman with increased sweetness in the face of coldness is pathetic. It's weak and un-manly. And women are attracted to… men.

    It's easy to judge game as manipulative and misogynistic based on other blogs out there. And just like anything else (religion springs to mind), if taken to extremes it can be quite poisonous. But it works.

    The proof is in the pudding.

    -Confidunce.

  23. jacques haugh says:

    just a quick trip report : used both the breathing and focus techniques this morning and it made a significant difference. specifically the difference between her orgasming and not.

    i was simply floored at the huge difference some small changes in technique could make. the cool part? i practiced both techniques pretty poorly, and i am pretty out of shape. as i learn to be consistent with my breathing and also disciplined with my focus, in addition to increased physical fitness, i now see the potential for rocking a girl to her core.

    great post!

  24. David Collard says:

    Confidunce

    The data keep coming in. "Game" works in marriage. Men are systematically lied to about what wives really want. Wives expect firmness. It is very easy to get this wrong. It does not mean ranting at her, or making querulous and absurd demands, or calling on her dutifulness, or telling her she should obey. It means being the boss. Acting like the boss. Reacting like a boss. Ignoring her nonsense. Shutting down affection if she is out of line, until she comes back into line, which she will if she has any regard for you at all. And not supplicating. Don't overdo the niceness and sweetness.

    In Genesis, man named woman. Name your woman. If she is being a bitch, call her a bitch. And so on. Don't call her honey, darling, sweetie, if she doesn't deserve it.

    Deep in every woman is the image of a man, someone she can look up to and even fear a little. This image turns her on. It is in her fantasies. It may be buried deep, but it is still there.

    Women evolved to deal with men at their rawest. They can take a lot of firm treatment. You need both fire and ice. A little bit of fire so she knows you are aware of her bad behaviour, but mostly ice to freeze her and chill her out when she is being hysterical.

  25. "chill her out when she is being hysterical"

    Just slip her a Xanax.

  26. David Collard says:

    Julia

    Excellent suggestion.

  27. Athol Kay says:

    Now now kiddies, lets not advocate drugging the ladies.

  28. David Collard says:

    It was a joke, Athol.

  29. Athol Kay says:

    LOL I know that David. But someone is going to try and twist it on me. :-)

  30. This lady was drugged for 4 years on antidepressents; the docs love to prescribe them! They did help me with the anxiety attacks, unfortunately, they were also turning me into a zombie and causing some "anger management" issues. I told my doc I wanted to get off them and she discouraged me; I ignored her and weened myself gradually off the dope. I now use meditation, exercise, and herbals to keep the demons away (hereditary condition from the paternal side); it works!

    It's the medical community that loves to keep the ladies (and gents) drugged. But really, Xanax will stop a psycho attack cold! As you no doubt know.

  31. Athol Kay says:

    Julia – glad to hear you got off them and are self-managing well. It is a much better option if you can do it. Well done.

  32. I’m late to this story but hope I get a response. My new boyfriend has too much self control. He’s had a lot of partners and is very athletic and assuming that that plays into it. I’m a woman thus slighty emotional when it comes to sex. I want more passion but I want him to be enjoying himself rather than trying to go for hours or being pounded for a hour. My kitty can’t handle it lol (maybe I need to build up my stamina) . I want rounds but I also want to break his self control. Suggestions ?

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