Forrest Gump has the most terrible Oneitis for Jenny and in relation to her displays zero Alpha traits. As a consequence she walks all over him for the entire movie. She does return to him twice, but only when she needs to take a Beta pit stop. When she finally tells him she loves him, it’s as she lays dying of AIDS and it rings so hollow that even Forrest knows that it’s just one final manipulation.
I’ve been asked a couple times what women can do as Alpha and Beta skills. It’s all pretty simple…
Female Alpha = Physical attractiveness, sexual interest and skill in bed.
Female Beta = Anything and everything else that she can bring to the table.
I’ve often heard people writing about women that are socially dominant and powerful as being “Alpha” but that’s really not within the framework I use where Alpha Traits evoke a Dopamine hormonal (excitement, pleasure, in love) response, and Beta Traits evoke a Oxytocin/Vasopressin hormonal (pair bonding, love) response.
Hillary Clinton for example is certainly powerful in the social sense, but she doesn’t really cause boners. Yet if she was a man in the same position of power, there would be gina tingles caused. Hillary has oodles of Beta but low Alpha. Sarah Palin on the other hand has a much higher Alpha simply because of looks and one gets the sense that she… would be “enjoyable”, but really who knows about her Beta stuff.
There is a big overlap in the Beta Traits for men and women, the difference is the Alpha ones. Just as for men, the Alpha and Beta balance is the way to go for women in a marriage.
And I am sorry ladies… the “beautiful you on the inside” does matter for the Beta Traits, but is worthless for the Alpha ones. But then you all knew that already anyway. Just confirming it.
Tomorrow we have a little more on this. I promise not to mention Hillary or Sarah ever again.
I’m always pleased to accept an award. This time I make the Top 100 Blogs list from Brainz.org.
Others from the friends and family department making the list…
I love how I got put in the Gender War division rather than the Home and Family division. I feel all dangerous and edgy now…
…it puts me in the mood to do Jennifer with the jumper cables and the butter.
So remember this post… Dominance and Submission in Marriage: The Captain and First Officer Model? If you haven’t read the original post, it’s one of my more important ones.
Have a little listen to this and catch the lyrics from 0.48 to about 0.56… I believe I’m flattered by her imitation. Though I’m a little disturbed by her wearing a Next Generation uniform while those in the background dancing are wearing the original series uniforms. Though she does redeem herself at the end with the red “Expendable” T-Shirt. So classic.
Hey I’m a geek, deal with it. Back in the day I lost interest several times on girls that couldn’t tell the difference between Star Trek and Star Wars. I’m mean seriously, big boobs are great but you still have to set the IQ bar somewhere right?
One of the things that I liked about Jennifer from the get go is that she liked science fiction. We’ve spent hours together hanging out and watching science fiction stuff together and she always gets a frame of reference joke. So I guess she is my Star Trek girl… though after dark though I’m more interested in the Princess Leia slave girl thing.
If you don’t like Star Trek, I apologize for the loss of 4:55 minutes of your life.
A question in the comments of the Forrest Chump post…
Thanks for your encouragement. Sadly, my story is just all the “Jenny” parts of Forrest Chump (over about 4 women… so far) without all the interesting Vietnam-Shrimpin-Running-appearing-in-newsreel-footage bits. Which is to say, it’s boring. The scary thing about Forrest Chump was how well it captured a woman who *almost* cares for a man, and the Beta chump orbiting her, and how long he’ll wait. Or maybe that’s just me…
Here’s one thing that I was thinking, though. I’ve read everything you wrote about how your relationship started with Jennifer, and (to those of us outside), it seems like several years of long-distance (which is to say, supremely obsessive) oneitis that ultimately ended in marriage, kids, success, happiness and sex sex sex. Sounds pretty good. Makes it kind of hard to disdain oneitis the way I definitely ought to.
Is the only difference between oneitis and determined, focused, alpha, goalseeking that the latter is recognized/defined by the fact that it worked, but only after it has worked?
The “Alpha” thing to do is kick her to the curb if she doesn’t put out after 8 hours in your presence. I know (and appreciate) that you’re more about balance, than cartoon-style PUA All Alpha All The Time, but…
So how do you tell the difference between oneitis and something worth working for that has difficulties that you have to overcome in a manly, manly way? Preferably before you get as old as I am…
Is Oneitis just the Beta/needy perversion of Alpha determination and focus?
This is a really good question, and I can see the obvious disconnect in that my actions courting Jennifer were for the most part identical to the actions of someone else that got chump and dumped for the same approach. Why did it work out for me and not the reader asking the question?
The biggest factor is that it was critical that Jennifer was also deeply in love with me and that my affection for her was returned in the same measure. I’m struggling with the PUA terms here a little, in that context saying I had Oneitis doesn’t seem quite right. I might have had Oneitis, but she had Oneitis for me, so it all worked out. Maybe we had Twoitis.
Maybe Oneitis should be called Onesideditis.
Also it was an extremely difficult time for both of us. Our original wedding date was in June 1994 and she asked to delay it to November so she could finish college. I agreed to it but also said if the wedding was delayed again past November that the whole thing was off. I just couldn’t continue on in a long distance relationship any more, one way or the other it had to end… marriage or goodbye. We all have our limits and our breaking point.
I never had any doubts that Jennifer loved me deeply though. I… we… did what we did believing in the love of the other for us.
I guess the questions to ask are along the lines of; “when I give to her, does she give back?” “Is this a mutual relationship?” Or am I always left hanging somehow? Am I always the one that has to call first or nothing happens? She she too busy for me somehow?
Or to return to Forrest Gump… when you find yourself asking a variation on “Why don’t you love me Jenny?”
If you find yourself loving a Jenny, realize that what you are experiencing for her is nothing more than an emotion. You will feel an intense desire to do things for her, just don’t do them. Don’t wait on her to change her mind and suddenly realize she loves you because she never will. Oh she may decide to enjoy your comfort for an extended time, but as soon as she decides it’s over, it’s over.
And for the record, I had a “Jenny” before Jennifer. I was deeply deeply in love with her… I just refused to actively love her when it was clear she didn’t love me back. It’s one of the smartest things I ever did for myself.
When she is expressing less interest in you, add Alpha.
When she is expressing you don’t seem interested in her, add Beta.
As nothing more than an excuse to play a Chef! video…
For the most part cooking is a Beta Male skill and a very useful one. But if you push it hard enough… it can turn into a means of establishing Alpha dominance.
Of course naturally I don’t advise taking a large knife to anything but a roast chicken. But being able to really cook large quantities of good food for things like parties just frames you as the man.
Of course as soon as you hear anything remotely close to the phrase “kitchen bitch” lobbed in your direction…. you leave a selection of instant oatmeal near the microwave for every meal until such time as a proper apology is made.
Obviously Forest is not a smart man, but even very bright guys can get caught in the trap of being emotionally fixated on one woman to the exclusion of everything else. If you give one woman total control over yourself and endlessly play the nice guy card to her, she will only give herself to you on her whim and as her comfort needs dictate. Even if you’re married to her, you will be enshrined in her heart as “just a friend”.
The Beta stuff is always good, but the total lack of Alpha will allow her to crush your spirit until you can’t take it anymore, or there is nothing left to give.
Edit: Continue reading here… Oneitis? Twoitis? Onesideditis? And Jenny is a Heartless Bitch…
Also to be completely cynical, Forrest should paternity test Forrest Jr. (“I don’t know why she came back, but I didn’t care, we was like peas and carrots again”) You have to remember that by this point of the movie he’s a rich man, so Forrest Jr will get to inherit a fortune and she had no interest in being with Forest up until she’s dying and needs someone to raise her son. But then this is Hollywood, so it needs a happy ending for the main character… and the slut has to die.
Jennifer has to work late a couple times a week doing open houses, and detests open houses where nobody comes. She gets bored and we tend to text a little during her events just to stay in contact with each other. She does a lot of events like this in her job and if they are dead it’s just a vacuum, so I fill it and make her laugh. If the event is good I cheerleader her too.
When she’s working late I usually make sure the house is clean, dinner done, kids happy yada yada yada in her absence. This particular night the dinner option was leftover sausage bread, but I wrangled eldest daughter into cooking pasta with me and…
If your wife says she wants a baby, repeatedly, insistently, illogically, passionately… for months… she’s in the throes of the baby crazies.
Option 1 – Get her pregnant.
Option 2 – Roll the dice and don’t get her pregnant… Maybe she’ll just come around and snap out of it and be happy. Maybe she’ll mope about it but that’s it. Maybe she’ll tear the relationship apart so she can find a new husband that will get her pregnant. Maybe she’ll get “accidentally” pregnant to you. Maybe she’ll get pregnant to someone else and then come running back to you. Maybe you’ll never know that the new baby isn’t really yours.
In general though, nature finds a way. Be advised that women that really want to be pregnant have essentially no limits on what they will do to meet that goal.
I’m not saying it’s right that women act this way, I’m just saying that this is reality and this is exactly what women are biologically designed to do. Sometimes a third kid is cheaper and less effort than child support x2, alimony, losing half your stuff and having to start over.
Badger has left a new comment on your post “Sexy Move: Ask For Her Special Dish”:
Athol, I was wondering if you might talk about how you find “you time” in your life. I understand all the gotta-dos for a modern husband – you come home from work and you’ve got kid care, wife care, nesting, etc. How do you find time to play WoW, to blog and do other things that make you you (and thus make you attractive as a guy leading his life) without your family thinking you are neglecting them?
Well this is the question isn’t it. Without an army of clones, there are simply too many things that you could do for upping your Sex Rank than can actually be done. For the most part I concentrate on what I can do best and see how far that takes me, then fill in the gaps.
I think what I do reasonably well is try and use my time for multiple purposes in doing the same task. For example when I’m answering someone’s questions by email, very often I find myself writing a longish reply. Quite frequently that long reply gets stripped of personal information and edited into a functional blog post. When I’m on Talk About Marriage offering advice and reading the stuff there, I often start to see patterns and that can turn into a post. When I read of the third guy who had a friend move in with him and the result was the friend had an affair with the wife, I said “aha that’s got to happen a fair bit” and I bammed out a post about it.
The blog is also doubling as a huge very messy first draft for the book, and as the marketing platform for the book as well. Hopefully the book turns into money which is going to pay the bills yada yada yada. Originally I had just thought of a book as a “better organized version of the blog”, but I’ve been surprised at how I’ve continued to develop my thinking as I’ve written it and it’s turning out better than the blog.
The blog is also a Display of High Value to one person in particular… Jennifer. Seriously do you realize how big my balls have to be to write that I’m an absolutely wonderful studfucking husband and get away with it? The payoff is when guys write back that when they do my stuff and say that it works, I’m always sure to show Jennifer those emails and comments. Plus I get her to read my posts and edit them before I publish them, so I’m including her in the process and asking for her help. She happens to like playing the support role, so it works on that level too. Hey honey could you just polish my enormous balls a little before I hit publish? Thanks.
So on one hand the blog itself is very Alpha, but it’s also very Beta as well. Try thinking of it as 380 posts about how much I love my wife. Try find a bad word about Jennifer in any of those pages. Oh sure I might tease her a little here and there, but it’s all really just an avalanche of positive emotion about her. At some point in 300-400,000 words of “Ode to Monogamy and Jennifer”, you figure she’s got to start thinking I’m interested in her.
So all this works together in one big ball of time efficent goodness. I’m doing my ONE THING that I’m really good at. Sometimes all you gotta do is just one thing really well and everything else just falls into place around it.
The other half of the equation is Jennifer. I’m married, so I don’t have to spend 3-4 hours a day wondering where my next lay is coming from. Generally I write posts from 930p to 1030ish, she edits the post, then we go to bed and have sex. That’s a big time savings right there. I don’t have a couple women calling me their baby’s daddy either, so that’s a big time and effort savings as well. Jennifer and I generally live within our means and we both work, so that’s a help as well. We spent time teaching the kids to behave when they were little and they behave really well now, so that’s easy too. Hey monogamy might look boring from the outside, but it’s an efficent way to live.
Also Jennifer does more around the house than I do and does more with the kids than I do. I do play with the kids and goof off with them. I don’t do nothing to be sure, but it’s not a 50/50 split and I do appreciate what she does. She believes in me. I won’t pretend for a minute that I don’t hope this all doesn’t ignite into some fame and major dollars, but even if it doesn’t, I’ve still helped a ton of people and that means something to us.
In terms of World of Warcraft, I’ve retired from competitive play. Oh I used to do that pretty hard core, server first boss kills and all that, but now it’s just a few hours here and there. This was something that I made a definite choice about a few years back. I don’t really miss the game as much as a handful of my old guildmates. I just play to zone out and not be bothered by anything.
I’ve just reached this point in my life where I need to start building something of meaning and value. And there’s really only enough time to do one thing really well.
Jennifer said she likes that I write in the living room with everyone present rather than holed up in a man cave somewhere.