Batshit Crazy Part 3

Marcus has left a new comment on your post “Batshit Crazy Part 2“:
“A shit test you can’t handle is still just a shit test.

In all seriousness, this video is merely a description of the female of our species. And I say that as a man who loves women. Running good game means putting down each of those bad behaviors when they crop up.

I don’t condone the “batshit crazy” copout. If you’re getting tested harder than you’ve ever been tested before, congratulations, you’ve met a very hot, in-demand girl. This is what game is for.”
I think Marcus is right… and Marcus is wrong. The question is simply where is the dividing line between a hot girl with a sense of entitlement testing you… and someone that has true psychiatric mental health issues. With the hot girl testing you, game will work. Someone with a chemical imbalance in their head will not care a damn about your game and can become very dangerous.
As an aside, I work with psych patients and I sure as hell do not use game on someone that is destablizing on us. We have behavior plans, medication regimes, protective holds and 911 calls if the situation cannot be contained. Me saying “batshit crazy” is color commentary for a lay audience when I’m off work; at work it’s all about counting the control drugs and being relaxed in an endless swirl of chaos. But I can’t really say anything more about that, and you’ll all here for the sex angle, so…
Pull up a chair…
About twenty years ago, I had a crazy girlfriend. Except I didn’t know she was crazy because she was on her best behavior before we dated and then the crazy started leaking out slowly. I didn’t understand this at the time, I just knew she was a bit emotional and snapped at me a lot, but that was what my mum did to me as well, so it seemed normal enough. I had no idea then why she was so snappy at me, but looking back I can see that the more clothes I got off her, the more crazy started coming into play. Lets just say “topless crazy” was my breaking point and we can move on from there.
Anyway, her needy phone calls drove me crazy, and that was complicated by the fact that we worked together as well. So she’d get in some kind of trouble at work and she’d call me straight away to vent / rage / cry about it. Ugh.
I forget exactly what had triggered it, but I had started really wondering why I was in this relationship as it just didn’t seem worth it. (The work thing had turned pretty awkward to be honest as it was a supposed secret as well, so that added a layer of drama.)  I didn’t even say that I was thinking of breaking up with her, but she suddenly started telling this impassioned story about how when her prior boyfriend had broken up with her, she had purposely driven her car into a telephone pole as some sort of failed suicide attempt. She told me this story in the tone of voice that implied that her actions then, were somehow my fault. Confusing…
Plus in the telling of the story, she made it very clear that she felt a lot stronger about her prior boyfriend, than she did about me. I know now that she did that purposely to hurt me; at the time I was hurt by it and focused on trying to deal with the emotion of that.  I also had this odd skin crawling sensation that something wasn’t right with all this. But I was young, stupid and could get her top off… so I just let it go.
About  two or three weeks later she explodes on me screaming that she hates her father, hates her ex-boyfriend, hates her brothers and she hates men.  She hates, hates, hates all men.
And the lights finally come on in my head. I’m a man, therefore you will hate me. All this mean shit you do to me isn’t actually my fault and isn’t even about anything I’m doing to you. I’m wrong by default. Then I realize with crystal clarity – this is not a problem I can fix.
With that screaming fit, I saw no future with with her.Which considering I was a devout Christian at the time, meant time with her was a pointless delay in finding a wife and sex life. So… game over girlfriend. Game over.
I wish I could say that I cut her out of my life like a cancer and never looked back, but my feelings for her stayed for a while. A few weeks after I dumped her I went back to see her again, I’m not really sure why. She was in her front yard doing weeding and the moment she saw me, her face twisted into venom. After listening to her verbal tirade long enough to realize there would be no end to it, I just turned around and drove away to safely and happiness. Thank goodness we worked on separate floors at work.
So looking back, I just don’t see anything I could have really done that would have changed that deep inner hatred. I could have probably knocked off the harassing needy calls at work and taken the edge off things, but all that would have done was extend the relationship longer into the future before I dumped her. Topless crazy would have turned into bottomless crazy, and then into sex crazy – who knows what that might have been like with her. And yes she was cute, with a great body, I’ll give her that much. But that ain’t enough. The purpose of marriage is not for a man to save a woman.
The last thing I remember of her was that her, myself and one of the other single girls from work had gone to a Christian music festival weekend. Me in my tent, the two of them in a shared tent and her back to good behavior. At some point on the final night both girls ended up in my tent talking and things started to progress between me and the other girl. I believe we pointedly froze my ex-girlfriend out and she fled the tent in tears.
Me and the other girl made out heavily, which was both nice (great girl, really liked her), but also awkward in that I felt near zero fireworks when kissing her (totally unexpected). Fortunately, I was due to head to America for my summer camp experience and she was about to go to South Africa on a short term mission. So we agreed to just hold off on getting into a relationship and see what happened when we were back. (She met a guy in SA and married him.)
A week or so later it was time for my big adventure in America. I packed my bags for the plane and said goodbye to the girls, goodbye mum and dad, goodbye New Zealand and goodbye to my job at The Bible Society.


  1. " I didn't understand this at the time, I just knew she was a bit emotional and snapped at me a lot, but that was what my mum did to me as well, so it seemed normal enough"

    I have gone through this more than once and had similar family experience. It's REALLY hard for me to find the line between a girl blowing off steam or venting about life (which is pretty much OK) and attacking me with her anger whether it's about me or something else. Esp since I can be a bit of a hothead myself in certain circumstances.

    Jennifer's got big balz to let you put this on the Internet, although I guess she can't argue with any post that ends with a subtextual "and that's how I met Jennifer."

  2. gameforomegas says:

    Shit tests are a big thing in the game-o-sphere. "You have to handle shit tests!" Well, when is a shit test just bad behavior? When is it just not acceptable behavior you don't want directed at you? If you are just trying to have sex with a woman, and taming her shrewishness will get you there, maybe it's worth it. But if this is her habitual way of dealing with people, you will get tired very fast. But that's just me.

  3. I think what's missing from the "batshit crazy" definition is that it's merely one end of the spectrum of shit tests. The far, far, far deep end of bitch. Batshit crazy ain't new, we just have a lot more tools for fixing it than we ever have before.

    Of course, having said all that, in this day and age, very few women are hot enough to pull off batshit crazy with any guy who's reading this blog (or any game blog), unless of course he's already addicted to her…

  4. It gets further than that with wives Sunflame. It's not always just the addiction angle, but he can live entirely within her frame of the relationship. Plus he doesn't want to lose the kids and the house yada yada yada.

    That being said – if it is all just bad behavior that she is in control of, taking steps to head to the door will very likely bring that behavior back into line.

    But if she's really mentally ill, it probably will not work.

    Men don't tend to stick around for ulgy women that do this stuff though, so the addicted angle does have merit as being a serious factor though.

  5. Badger – Jennifer is very gracious at times. I know that I am the one writing and the public face of MMSL, but she's such a large part of me and my life that she's very much part of each post as well.

  6. The funny thing about Athol's story is that the woman demonstrated more than once that she was perfectly capable of moderating her behavior. It just so happens that when she decided not to, Athol was heavily emotionally invested in her; when she was on good behavior, it was when Athol wasn't invested. That is decidedly NOT the mark of someone who is incapable of responding rationally to external punishments and rewards (my definition of crazy).

    I'm sure Athol's psych ward patients are genuinely crazy, but 99% of the women you meet in the wider world are not. Suicide threats (and lame attempts) are extreme, but they're not crazy. I've laughed off two of them, and the drama disappeared along with the tiny wrist scratches.

    Well, when is a shit test just bad behavior?

    Always. And your lack of interest in tolerating it is what reforms it.

    But that lack of interest has to be genuine. Many men appear to have a strong interest in tolerating it while they work to fix it (with tres tight game, no doubt) , which sounds similar but isn't.

  7. Oh crazy people do understand external punishments and rewards and can respond to them, it's just the level of structure that you have to bring to the table to enforce that. I've seen quite unstable people immediately bring their behavior into line when faced with a police tazer for instance.

    But if you're a husband of someone with a genuine psych disorder, who refuses to seek help for their condition, a single man isn't enough to play the role of an entire behavior support team. It can be hopeless trying to deal with someone that decides to stop their medication on just a behavioral level.

    When she blew up on me about the "hates all men thing", I saw that as going to be a life long issue that was going to require a never-ending management. So I bailed.

    Like I said in the post – the question is just where the line is between fitness testing and crazy. Game works for the former, clozaril works great for the later.

  8. I think that for the point is that Game is what can force a crazy woman to take the clozaril (assuming you have enough reason to push for that, i.e. those kids, house, paycheck, etc…).

    For instance, batshit crazy wife refuses to take her meds or go to therapy, that's the fitness test, not the batshit crazy itself. You either push back or the marriage dissolves.

  9. A normal woman throwing shit-tests isn't dangerous; a person with a mental illness can be very dangerous, to both themselves and others. You can never accurately gauge how a mentally ill person will respond to your 'push back.' They may give in and resume normalcy; or they may go into a rage and start smashing things, throwing a childlike temper tantrum in public, or worse, start hitting people.

    I agree with Athol; one man is not enough of a support system to deal with a person with a disorder who will not seek help or take medication. You are putting your own mental and physical health and maybe your own career in jeopardy.

    Married 2 years to a woman with Borderline Personality Disorder

  10. Athol and "Married 2 years…" bring up a good point: Some people are legitimately crazy. My mother also did all kinds of yelling and crazy fits where she'd get mad about nothing in particular. Some days, she'd hardly get out of bed to feed us kids.

    Dad didn't get it because he worked while she was at home with us, and she was different around him. Dad just never thought it was as bad as we were saying. He was always loving and good to Mom and – looking back on it – way too patient with her.

    Many fights and years later, she did finally get professional help. She's been a much different person since then. I wish we'd told her a decade ago how concerned we were about her health and taken her to get help then.

  11. Very interesting post. I'd like to add just how batshit crazy-like stress can make some people and, while it isn't an excuse, it can certainly be an explanation. In my teens I only knew the 'stressed' version of my mum (the one that threw stuff, picked fights, cried easily and played the hurt victim in the face of reason). Once she finally walked out of her job and took on a part-time, lower paid, lower skilled job she became a different person. I realise now she wasn't batshit crazy – just stressed, frustrated and unable to cope.

  12. If there's one thing I will teach my son, it's this:

    "The purpose of marriage is not for a man to save a woman."

    Brilliant, sir. I blew 14 years being a beta to a substance abusing borderline with a hard luck abuse story. Have discovered your work (as well as No More Mr. Nice Guy) and am developing my alpha skills. (Like dumping her ass, getting custody of the kids, and reaping the female rewards.)

    On my way back, and your wisdom helps. Thanks for all you do.

    (Funny how after all the pain and abuse, I couldn't save her. Hmmm. It's almost as if she was genuinely mentally ill. Chivalry don't fix that.)

  13. You're welcome Portrane. Appreciate the thanks.

  14. The sad thing is when the husband has BPD and the wife spends years not fully understanding what's going on. She tries everything in her power to adapt, to prevent the rage, walking on eggshells. Then, sooner or later, *she* turns batshit crazy, too. The difference is that when the non-crazy person steps back, she can see it. But, all hell pours out on her when she tries to get out. Living with a BPD spouse untreated is abuse. It has the classic violent episode (even if only verbally), followed by the sincere apology. Over and over and over and over.

    We need to help people who have this, and help the people who unwittingly try living with their batshit crazy partner.

    If I hear another Christian telling me to give the marriage one more try, I might finally hurt someone.

    This needs to move to a separate blog. I much prefer the stuff we *can* change.

  15. Anonymous says:

    Athol, I do hope the men are going to your previous articles on what a shit test is and is not. There are husbands that take all difficulties and differences in personality and between men and women as a shit test that should be ignored or in my case ignored and told that I am crazy no matter what the subject (we've emailed on that before). There are some genuinely scary women out there and they are usually toxic to the women around them too and can drag female friends or relatives into their nutso man hating realm and way of thinking.

  16. OK… I'm going to be careful here, as I work in the same field as Athol, and, as a NZer, there are only about two degrees of separation (he will know someone who knows someone who knows me).

    But… if she is borderline — and I mean the real McCoy, the suicide gestures, the rejection, the hatred, the refusal to take any responsibility for behaviour, then. Run. Like. Hell.

    If she becomes that way. Run. Like. Hell. And take the kids with you. Even if you ain't great as a Dad and you have turned yourself into a doormat to please her, you will be a better parent than she is.

    At work — we are not in love with patients. We can set up structured systems. We can and do medicate people with personality disorders (to treat their symptoms).

    But we can't treat those whom we love. We can't get them to do therapy. They have to choose to change. And… the personality disordered, like little children, can project cute, funny, happy and hook you in. They can look perfect. (Real people cannot).

    I have seen multiple BPD move from ED and dumping boyfriend to new boyfriends flat (even with kids) within a week. I have never seen a non BPD woman do that — because non PD women treat men as human beings and think about their kids.

    On the Church issue — I is of faith. So… in my experience, there are as many women with poor coping skills in the church as out of it, because:
    (a) the church provides them some external rules that allow them to fake so they feel righteous
    (b) the church will accept anyone — and now softpedals standards
    (c) the church has, in the West, become feminized (which has been a disaster, but that is another post).

    And, Oh yes… got caught the second time by a fellow medic from church. I have had to run… and had to get the kids out.

  17. Athol Kay says:

    LOL Chris I was going to say that you overstate the two degrees of separation in New Zealand thing… I just looked at your blogroll. I went to school with David Farrar!

    You have it exactly right though. I can't really go in to what I do, but I'm just a part of a whole team of professionals, let alone the direct care support staff.

    It's not even just a case of the husband being in love with her and being unable to cope. I'm not sure I could cope forever as the sole professional person in a 24/7 living arrangement with a BPD woman. It's all just too much for one person to deal with.

    They can look so good from the outside…

  18. Athol, relax.

    I don't know the penguin (David F) personally. But… NZ is a small village

  19. Athol Kay says:

    It is a small village. Though I've also been living in Connecticut for 16 years, so the village seems like a memory of Narnia at times.

  20. Anon 11:11, while you were writing, I was living the psychotic crisis with a batshit crazy husband.

    I had enough when he told me I should kill myself to make his life better … as he was locking me out of our bedroom at night for fear I would emasculate him. And putting the key where I could get it and asking me not to us it … pure batshit.

    I ended up with a restraining order, he filed divorce. A few weeks into therapy I realized how warped my life was and counter-filed for divorce. I spent 20 years as his wife, adjusting my life to be a good first officer … I will get my half of his life, and not a drop more — or less.


  21. I know I'm responding to a very old post… I'm new here and I've been going back to read EVERYTHING.

    I was married to a batshit crazy wife for 30 years. My son followed in my footsteps and married a batshit crazy woman. He's now separated from her and living with me.

    The other night I overheard him on Skype with his 11-year-old son. The kid was telling his dad about a girl at school that kept bothering him. Dad asked the kid why he wasn't interested in the girl. What's wrong with her?

    Kid said she was cute. She was smart. But she was a little bit crazy.

    Dad said, "Son, I'm telling you this as your father. Don't stick it in the crazies."

    I had to laugh. I stuck my head in the door. "Listen to your father, Grandson. He knows what he's talking about!"

    Of course, Dad did then follow up with "do you even know what I just said," got an "ewww, gross," as a reply. "Well, son, you won't always think it's gross. But just remember. Don't stick it in the crazies."

    I sure wish someone had told me that when I was 11.

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