Girl Game: Give Him a Fair Warning

A comment by MGirl on Girl Game: Husband Management
Anon-I had the same problem with my husband. My sex drive was through the roof, but I was extremely unattracted to him. I suggested he read this blog(he didn’t), so I got blunt. I told him I was tired of having to fantasize about other men. I told him I was finding myself looking at other men and wanting them. I told him I wanted sex, but not with him. I wasn’t considering, or even threatening cheating, BTW, but I was honest about how I felt. And boy did he perk up then. He started working out regularly, went to go buy new clothing, got his hair cut, and regularly asks me what he can do to increase my attraction to him. My approach was a bit aggressive, maybe, but I was desperate and couldn’t see any other option. And it worked!
This is dead on.
The husband should thank his lucky stars for his choice of wife. Plenty of other women would…
Buy Me!

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Comments

  1. wavevector says:

    "This is dead on"?

    Not this bit:
    "He … regularly asks me what he can do to increase my attraction to him".

    That is so supplicating beta. A man in this situation needs to figure out what he needs to do and take the initiative to go do it himself. He needs to lead, not take instructions from his wife. Otherwise he reduces himself to the good boy, eager to please Mommy.

  2. Anonymous says:

    @Wavevector – I agree that this isn't exactly an Alpha move, but at that point in their marriage it was more important to develop instant attraction between them, which we know isn't a choice. So no, this guy isn't currently being an Alpha male, but his wife isn't going to cheat on him . . .at least anytime soon. As an immediate fix, I think this was "dead on"! I've come to realize that not all men are going to do the research and follow through on the advice and become a real alpha, but even adding just a little alpha(i.e. working out and improving your body) can help tremendously in some situations

    –Loyal Reader

  3. MGirl says:

    wavevector- yes, he is still quite a bit beta. BUT he's heading in the right direction and that's all I was looking for at that point. Someone doesn't develop Alpha traits overnight, but since I confronted him, he sure has stepped up in a lot of areas!

    And he's not asking me like he used to because he's becoming more confident in himself. Now that he's working out on a regular basis, he only defers to me rarely to ask me what turns me on. He REALLY feels better about himself and that confidence itself is sexy.

    My move wasn't an instant fix, and was never intended to be, but it was firm push in the right direction. I gave him some suggestions and things that I think are sexy. After that, I backed off and let him do the rest himself without my interference.

    And I didn't just blurt out that whole speal without leading up to it…there was proably 2-3 weeks worth of subtle hints preceding it, that he didn't pick up on in the slightest. So I did what I thought I had to.

  4. David says:

    What is really the difference between an Alpha and a Beta? I mean, seriously – the Beta is the supplicating little boy looking for Mummy's approval. And an Alpha is… what? Usually, he's a Beta… looking for his wife's approval. Non c'e differenza!

    Men are slaves to women. Pure and simple.

  5. Athol Kay says:

    Wavevector – the couple are clearly happier together so it's a clear win. Asking your wife if she likes something is an easy calibration move.

    David – Click the tabs under the blog header. Catch up a little. Alpha and Beta are different here.

  6. David says:

    AK, I read both articles and your Alpha and Beta concepts correspond to my own. Maybe you are trying to point out that Alpha and Beta are not labels we categorically apply to whole persons but traits present in every person to varying degrees. That's fine. On the whole, however, most men are fairly Beta, and a minority of men are fairly Alpha.

    A woman likes a confident man who does not defer to her. The irony is that he has become such only to please her – and this would seem the greatest deference of all, that a man would actually re-write his personality to please his wife. The only exception here is the natural Alpha, who gets to stay as he is.

    Yep. Come on, guys, just admit it already. We are slaves to women.

  7. MGirl says:

    David–
    Wouldn't it be nice if he could read my mind and never have to ask me what turns me on? That would sure clear a few things up, huh? It's a shame we weren't born with mind-reading skills, but since we weren't, we do have to defer to each other at times.

    Your "slave" comment really irks me. I've commented on here previously that I am good at picking up comments my husband makes regarding what turns him on. I keep my ears open and pay attention to what he likes. I recently colored my hair brunette because I know he loves brunette hair. I bought and wear lipstick because I know it turns him on. I don't want to become stale or boring, so I am continually making an effort to make myself attractive to him. Am I slave to him then? I think not. I view it as keeping my marriage alive and healthy.

    In contrast, he does not pick up on my subtle hints. It's not in his nature to be observant and try to figure out exactly what I like. So he is forward and bluntly asks me what I like, rather than shooting in the dark and playing guessing games. Beta? Mmmmaybe. I'm not really sure it is though. Does that make him my slave by wanting to be attractive to me? I do the *exact* same thing with him. We earn each others' attraction. Marriages become stale and dead when spouses become complacent and stop trying to please the other.

    Also, he is not re-writing his personality, but choosing to make decisions and take care of himself in a way that benefits himself and our marriage. I firmly believe that if I were no longer in the picture as of tomorrow, he would continue the behaviors he has implemented, because they make *him* a better person and he knows that.

  8. David says:

    "Wouldn't it be nice if he could read my mind and never have to ask me what turns me on?"

    Unfortunately, the dog must be trained.

    "It's a shame we weren't born with mind-reading skills, but since we weren't, we do have to defer to each other at times."

    This will bake your noodle: I am not the one who minds occasional deference. That is your quandary as a woman. Only then does it become my quandary as a man.

    "Your "slave" comment really irks me."

    Crack the whip then.

    "[I pay attention and do all this stuff to please him.] Am I slave to him then?"

    At a minimum it is slavish, yes. Even so, there is a fundamental difference between the work you're doing and the work he's doing. You are making cosmetic adjustments; you, by and large, remain the same. He is making some cosmetic adjustments, but in the main his work is to change himself. He cannot be himself and keep you. You can. Who is the more demeaned?

    So no, you are not doing "the *exact* same thing with him."

    Beyond this, I have always believed women have held far more power in relationships than men. How I could prove this to you, I don't know. You see it or you don't. Or let me put it this way: what I see all the time are men scurrying around like frightened animals desperately trying to please women. All women. Their wives and women who aren't their wives. The whole culture is caught up in this frenzy.

    Would you say women are similarly anxious to please men? I certainly wouldn't. In fact, I think women basically show a callous disregard for men as a sex. We do not matter. Period. You women can take whatever you want from us. Oh – and by the way, you do, if you haven't noticed.

    "Also, he is not re-writing his personality, but choosing to make decisions and take care of himself in a way that benefits himself and our marriage."

    Oh, let's get to the point already. He is changing himself in order to arouse you. That's all he's doing.

    "I firmly believe that if I were no longer in the picture as of tomorrow, he would continue the behaviors he has implemented, because they make *him* a better person and he knows that."

    This kind of logic sickens me.

  9. MGirl says:

    David–I'm very curious as to why you believe it is wrong of me to ask for some reciprocation when it comes to making myself attractive to my spouse. I'm asking him to take better care of himself physically. He would do the same of me if I stopped taking care of myself. Why do you get so angry about that?

  10. David says:

    Jeez, I go through all that trouble responding and you come up with an entirely new set of questions. Wait a second! You didn't ask new questions. You asked the *same* questions a second time. LOL

    I'm not mad at you, MGirl.

  11. Anonymous says:

    Sean sez:

    David speaks a harsh truth, but truth nonetheless.

    I know, Athol isn't here to get down to the nitty gritty about men and women, just how to get your old lady to give up the pussy willingly. Don't get me wrong, Athols stuff works well.

    As such this probably will go over like the proverbial lead balloon but David really is spot on.

    At some point you have to look in the mirror and say "Is it really worth all this just to have sex?"

  12. MGirl says:

    Okay then, men. Do tell. What is a wife to do when she loses attraction to her husband? I really would like to hear what your solution is :)

  13. David says:

    My God. My dear God in Heaven. Has it happened? Has it finally happened? I don't know if I can handle this. There really is a person here who won't obfuscate, twist, lie, deny, and rationalize? Amazing. Sean, you are a diamond in the rough.

    I can now die in peace. My epitaph: Vindicated.

  14. David says:

    Oh. No. Wait. I can't die yet. The natural order drives me forward once more: the woman has put a demand before me. Must… obey…

    MGirl, when a woman loses attraction to her husband, has a strong sex drive such that it becomes tempting to cheat on him, and finds her subtle cues are not working, she should, in short, try anything with him that will work. Including your method.

    (In any event she must strive to keep her marital vows. That is another issues, of course.)

    Employee No. N007932

  15. Anonymous says:

    Sean sez:

    David, I ain't the only one. Drop the subtle hints with your male coworkers and you might be suprised at how many over thirty five guys feel pretty much the same.

    I appreciate your commentary. I get tired of only reading herdlike missives.

  16. David says:

    Thanks, Sean. I do, too.

    Unfortunately, though, I suspect that connecting to the underworld of quiet male solidarity would be only a small comfort, however welcome. (It is worse after all to be the only one having a certain view of life – especially a view like this.) We still do not matter outside. And I'm not sure that's ever going to change.

  17. Athol Kay says:

    David and Sean – the blog is about finding productive solutions to marriage issues. Blanket complaints about women are completely ineffective to acheiving solutions. Please stop. Only warning. Thanks.

  18. MGirl says:

    I really am trying to understand. Please bear with me.

    You believe that men should never change who they are to please women. Women should take men as they are and be satisfied with what they have, rather than always wanting more.

    Did I get that right? I'm just trying to process what you're saying.

  19. MGirl says:

    Never mind.

  20. David says:

    MGirl – Not quite, but I appreciate your effort to understand. As you can see, we have to drop the discussion. Be well.

  21. paige says:

    Why do people who don't value marriage come to a marriage website and complain about marriage?

    If I were the host I would be annoyed, but I know Athol tends to be less irritable than I am.

  22. paige says:

    Okay…so I posted that and then forgot to click enter and then came back and clicked enter and saw that Athol was indeed annoyed. LOL.

  23. David says:

    Yes. I hope you see he also handled it.

    I understand this blog has a certain focus and that Athol wants to maintain both this focus and the atmosphere that will support it. My earlier interjections were a faux pas. I understood this mistake just as Athol pointed it out.

    That said, it remains grating to be so abruptly shut down by one of your own, even though I know why he did it. This is yet another place that is 'off limits' to men who want to call things what they really are. Again, I understand – it's just frustrating.

    Are there other places guys can go to have these discussions? Yes, but… they're not always what you want them to be. Besides, it quickly gets old talking to people who see things exactly as you do.

    I'm just venting at this point – I respect Athol's wishes.

  24. Anonymous says:

    There is no point complaining about why women are the way they are-especially if your aim is to have sex with one or more of those women. You can talk about "being yourself" all you like, but if your natural self is a turnoff to women in general, and to your girlfriend or wife in particular, then changes need to be made IF you want your woman (or any woman) to become more interested in having sex with you.

    The bottom line is, complaining doesn't get a guy laid. Never has, never will.

    The MacNut

  25. Badger says:

    "I firmly believe that if I were no longer in the picture as of tomorrow, he would continue the behaviors he has implemented, because they make *him* a better person and he knows that."

    Isn't this a roundabout way of saying "he projects that he has options" and "he's not just doing things because I tell him to," both of which are important alpha traits that women find attractive? In any case party on.

  26. Athol Kay says:

    Thanks David.

    It's not off limits for calling things as they really are. I think I call things as they are pretty well. Women clearly can do godawful things to men. Divorce is appalling. Family court slanted to women etc. Truely I get all that – I've got several chapters in the book about that even.

    I'm just focused on practical solutions that actually work, to save marriages and keep guys from being removed from their kids and having their wallet torn out through their anus.

    Part of that solution that works is not screaming/venting at women. In fact you have to both understand and like them. If you're saving marriages you even have to make women happy. A marriage worth being in is win-win, not master-slave.

    The places that allow venting like this are not what you want them to be because they don't offer a solution of any value. Just more rage, more venting, more pain and more despair.

    I'm getting 3-4 emails a week from people saying this blog saved/turned around a marriage. So it's an oasis for many and needs to be protected as such.

    You are quite welcome to stay David. I think you get what I'm trying to do here.

  27. Anonymous says:

    I find it funny that clear open honest communication is listed as Girl Game. :)

    Definitely a win though. In my case it was that I was losing interest in sex because of feeling overburdened with, apologies here, housewife work. I'm not that role and resented it. Perhaps this explains some other comments from me.

    Clear open honest communication, and explaining how it was impacting my interest in sex, was the solution. I was independently (I think?) taking actions that increased my sexiness, such as longer hair and getting lean again.

    I wanted him to want me, to need me, to do the things that made me happy.

    I wanted him, needed him and wanted to do the things that made him happy.

    Damn, I'm proving your point Athol, aren't I? But it wouldn't work with just the sexy and the sex. The fair warning is sometimes what it comes down to.

    MGirl did the taking charge role to get things going. It doesn't mean the husband can't get into the alpha role more once things are unstuck (if you want that, I personally am not turned on by alpha traits).

    I hope things turn out well for her, and them.

    Mac

  28. Athol Kay says:

    Incidentally – The fair warning amounts to Phase Four of The MAP. Chapter 16 in The Primer.

    This stuff really does work.

  29. Pode says:

    In my experience clear open honest communication is as alien to most women as quality Game is to most men, so calling it Girl Game is legit.
    Kathy, to paraphrase Rumsfeld, we go to marriage with the wives we have, not the wives we might wish for. The Boomer generation was the last to be raised by nonfeminists & thus have a clue. Their daughters & especially granddaughters are almost exclusively entitlement princesses, and their sons/grandsons are the thugs and defeated losers such women deserve. Athol is trying to stem the tide of dysfunction by doing the education task Boomers were too selfcentered to tackle as parents.

  30. Pode says:

    What I'm saying (and you're being too entitled to hear?) is that for all practical purposes women under 60 = entitlement princesses. The 1st thing Athol said in this post is how exceedingly lucky this man was that his wife would give him even a single warning before disemboweling him in divorce court. Everything is up to the husbands because they are the ones who haven't been raised from birth to think they should have everything they want instantly. It's a matter of finding a viable path from the dysfunctional entitlement princess / slave relationship back to a healthy one. The slave has to do the work, because no one else *will* work. Recognizing that fact is hardly an endorsement of slavery.

    For the record, I don't hate women. I hate what our dysfunctional society has warped them into.

  31. Athol Kay says:

    I did give a fair warning to stay on point and the purpose of the blog. Kathy's comments have been removed for obvious reasons, Pode's comments immediately above stand as is but lack a little context.

    Thanks.

  32. David says:

    "The bottom line is, complaining doesn't get a guy laid. Never has, never will."

    Things only work a certain way. That is clear. But know what you are sacrificing on the altar of lust. You do not appear to think it matters. Well, if that is the way you see it, how can I argue with you? For myself I question whether the price is too high, and the object worth the loss entailed to attain it.

    The brutal reality is that a man's heart has no place in a relationship. That is just the way it works. It is always and everywhere unmanly to call reality something it is not. Here, too, there is but one way to be a man: stare deep into the heart of this darkness, seize it with an unflinching gaze, call it exactly what it is, and then, after your being has absorbed, down to the last small tremor, the shock of what you have seen, choose how you will respond.

    You do not go to war saying, "This is great. I love war. Of course I love war. I have to love war. I have no choice." You go to war saying, "This is awful. It should not be this way. But I have considered the situation and examined my options, and I believe fighting is the best path to follow." This way, when you have shot and killed someone, you will have the mental bearing to realize it was a tragedy the man died, and you will suffer knowing he died at your hand. When you are sitting in the trenches and your fellow soldier is overcome with grief, you do not tell him, "Stop complaining. It is what it is," but put your arm around his shoulder and grieve with him.

    So in my view, it's not a matter of "Stop complaining and do what you have to do" but "Wake up to the reality and make your choice with full awareness."

    Maybe the issue is that we simply do not have the strength to dwell on such things. Hence, a married man, who has committed to marriage and intends to keep that commitment, must say to himself, "Stop complaining. This is how it is. Forget about it and move on." If this is what he must do to keep moving then I understand but it's tragic. Forgetting robs the choice of its dignity and honor.

    So Athol – I do appreciate and understand what you are doing here. As I said before you have drawn the line and henceforth I respect that.

  33. David says:

    "For the record, I don't hate women."

    I want to come on the record as saying this as well.

  34. Victor says:

    I get what you're saying-make an informed choice about whether this is the path you want to follow. But in a way, a married man who wants to stay married really doesn't have much of a choice, if he wants to avoid being raped in divorce court, AND wants a happy, sex-filled marriage on top of that.

    The MacNut

  35. Athol Kay says:

    Victor is correct – there is no choice on this for men. Either you do what I suggest (or some variant on it) and have a shot at a happy marriage, or roll the dice on how badly she wants to screw you over in the aftermath of divorce.

    You have to make a choice on that issue whether you want to or not. Choosing not to choose is a choice in and of itself and likely going to default to a losing option.

    The Marriage 2.0 Chapter is pretty up front on this issue. 344 pages of informed choice and how-to…. just sayin'! :-)

  36. David says:

    Makes sense, guys. A married man has some stark realities to face. I'm approaching this from the angle of a single guy and my choice is whether to marry in the first place.

  37. LJ says:

    Bloody hell, this has all become a bit depressing. Some of the male commenters may not hate women, but they certainly don't like them much either.

    All this talk of slaves, entitlement princesses and marriage as war. If that's your view of women and marriage, then the answer to 'is it really worth all this just to have sex' is clearly 'no'.

    However, if you actually like your wife as a person and would like to have more sex with her then Athol's advice is great. If you got married just to have sex and didn't put any thought whatsoever into who you chose for that then I don't think it's entirely fair to blame the woman for your unhappiness. You should consider who you want to spend the rest of your life with, not just who you want to spend the rest of your erect life in.

  38. Athol Kay says:

    David – My approach is to be pro-marriage, but also to realize that wife selection is the biggest decision of your life.

    Where you look for marriageble women isn't going to be the same places you look for a hookup either.

    Marriage really can work and work well for men.

  39. Anonymous says:

    "There is no choice on this for men. Either you do what I suggest (or some variant on it) and have a shot at a happy marriage, or roll the dice on how badly she wants to screw you over in the aftermath of divorce."

    This should be put into the blog header somewhere. It'd definitely encourage young single men to wise up about Marriage 2.0.

    Höllenhund

  40. Athol Kay says:

    Hollenhund – it can't go in the header, it's too heavy to lead with for most people to tolerate and continue reading.

    The Marriage 2.0 chapter was the first chapter in the book for about six months, but it always felt wrong there. The final draft I pushed it to the final chapter to act as the final thought and explanation as to the very serious "why I wrote this" for the book.

    By the time they get to the end of the book it's with more confidence and understanding and it goes down easier.

    The Red Pill can be given in divided doses…

  41. Anonymous says:

    I agree with LJ.

    It's a bit disheartening to read all of these posts. To lump all women together as entitlement princesses, slavemasters, and out to screw over husbands during a divorce is simply unfair. Some of us are just decent women, trying to make our husbands happy and our marriages work. We get frustrated with our marriages too, men.

  42. paige says:

    I think it is worth noting that not all women cheat or leave when they are unhappy in their marriages. Sometimes the woman just muscles through it for years and years because her conscience wouldn't tolerate any other option.

    So the advice here isn't just to keep women from divorcing since not all will, but because a happy wife will be more passionate in the bedroom. While all women can just lay there and think of England it takes some level of actual attraction for the sex to be good.

  43. Anonymous says:

    "We get frustrated with our marriages too, men."

    One small difference is that a husband cannot blackmail his wife by threatening to cheat or file for divorce if he's sexually frustrated by his wife's lack of attractiveness, because in both cases the wife can promptly disembowel him in divorce court.

    Höllenhund

  44. David says:

    "It's a bit disheartening to read all of these posts. To lump all women together as entitlement princesses, slavemasters, and out to screw over husbands during a divorce is simply unfair. Some of us are just decent women, trying to make our husbands happy and our marriages work. We get frustrated with our marriages too, men."

    Well, I don't doubt at all that you do, Anon; I would not deprive you of your legitimate grievances, of which I'm sure the average woman has more than a few. I have met dozens of women whom life treated far too severely. Life is a cruel master, and this world is kind to no one. I have always noted, moreover, that the women who have treated me the worst were always themselves the worst treated of all the women I knew. Cruelty is an heirloom passed down through generations.

    So please forgive me if my remarks, harshly spoken as they were, add to your burden. But there is truth to them. Hollenhund and others have spoken of laws and culture, and rightly so, but my emphasis is on nature itself. As I have already tried to communicate, I believe women naturally possess far greater power with men than vice versa. And while it's true that historically men have always been the ones to control a society's resources, the flip side of this equation, which gets mentioned only quietly between men when women aren't around (because women refuse to hear it, much less believe it), is that women have always been the ones to control men. Obviously this is not true in absolute terms, but it is very much true on the whole. I won't spend much time trying to prove this; I have neither the time nor the energy and anyway, if you don't already see it, then nothing I have to say is likely to convince you.

    In fact, ladies, if you look back to my first two comments, they were not addressed to you. They were addressed to the men. Pardon me, but there was a reason for that.

    Now, Athol accused me making blanket complaints about women, but really, I don't find that fair. My focus is not on women. I didn't start, for example, by calling women slave drivers, though that of course was implied; rather, I called men slaves. (Incidentally, ladies, do you find it curious that no man here has taken exception to being called a slave, whereas maybe two or three women have taken exception to being called slave drivers? Think about it. Sean came forward to express his agreement. Even Athol and Hollenhund, who did not like the direction of my comments, did not deny them; they only advised me to… please listen here… live with reality. Does that not tell you something?) My complaints are with Mother Nature and the way she decided the sexes should relate. Though I do have some grievances about women generally my complaints here are *not* about them because it is not up to women to arrange the relationships between the sexes. That is the job of Mother Nature. And if I have contempt for anyone, it's us men, because we are so weak, so easily deceived, so trusting, so insecure, and so naturally eager to please women.

    Ladies, methinks thou dost protest too much.

  45. Athol Kay says:

    David – If your complaint is with Mother Nature then you have no hope for resolution of your complaints.

    My essential point to you has been that mere complaint is no solution to anything.

  46. David says:

    This is true, Athol, but at a minimum I think we should call things what they are. I'm not suggesting you have failed to do so – I'm not sufficiently familiar with the content of your blog to say one way or another. You don't seem inclined to sugarcoat anything. Generally speaking, though, out there in the big bad world, I believe we are living under a mass delusion. You could not speak of these realities plainly to anyone. That is what frustrates me.

  47. pdwalker says:

    David,

    Keep reading. Athol's advice if understood and followed, is like magic.

    At the end of the day, Men are men and Women are women. Understanding that and how it relates to relationships can make for much, much healthier relationships. If that makes me a "slave" to my wife, then I'll all for it because we, we! are much happier for it.

  48. Athol Kay says:

    Well just buy the PDF David. You can be all caught up by tomorrow evening. It's seriously good.

    And don't forget that I'm a nurse. I do sugarcoat the red pill… but I get people to take it that way.

  49. David says:

    Ehhh… thanks, Athol, but I've swallowed this pill. Not sure the bitter taste is going to go away.

    But if I remember correctly you did have a post somewhere back on working out so I am going to go and read that.

    Be well all.

  50. David says:

    :: scratches head after looking around ::

    Well, I thought you had one somewhere. Anyway, thanks for the chat. Adios.

  51. Anonymous says:

    After reading Athol's book, I was finally able to put into words the frustration I've been feeling with my husband and marriage. I was very tired of never feeling turned on, and it seemed to me that everything about our sex life was male-oriented (fall into bed, have some quick foreplay, have sex). It just wasn't doing it for me. I had to be very blunt with my husband, several times, for him to even start to get it. He's a terrific Beta husband and father, and I was not going to leave him or cheat on him. But I found that I was shutting down sexually and beginning to resent him for not paying attention to what I needed. He is now reading the book and trying to build Alpha and do some things that will turn me on, before we fall into bed at 10:30.

  52. Athol Kay says:

    Thanks Anon 9:50

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