Reader Story: Her Parents Don’t Care What You Do As Long As You’re Alpha

I can’t thank you enough for your blog, it has truly changed my life.
Four years ago I started dating a girl. She was a vegetarian and a feminist. One thing led to another, and I spent the entire relationship accommodating her bullshit. I stopped eating meat, stopped seeing friends she didn’t like, etc. because I was in “love”. Eventually, I popped the question and she said yes just long enough to take the ring, leave her four cats with me, and leave the state for work. I figured that we could certainly make the long distance relationship work. I was wrong. She would deign to answer my calls about once a week, could almost never travel to see me, and when she did she would occasionally kiss me, but refuse all other intimate contact. I put up with that for 8 months before the relationship ended. I was about as beta as one could get. Thinking about the entire relationship still fills me shame.
After the breakup I made some changes in my life. I dropped 50lbs. I started kicking ass in school. I was doing well, adding more alpha without knowing what I was doing, and then I discovered your blog. Suddenly everything made sense. I could see just how broken the relationship had been from the start. I knew the mistakes I had made, and I knew what I could do differently. I became more assertive, cleaned up the way I dressed and groomed myself. I kept adding alpha. I met a wonderful girl, way hotter then the ex, and applied everything I had learned from you to this new relationship. It could not be going better. It really is the kind of relationship I’ve always wanted and it would not exist without your blog. Thank you.
I also wanted to share a story with you from last weekend.
I spent Easter in Minnesota with my girlfriend’s family. When I arrived I was told that I would staying in her sister’s room thanks to the larger bed, and that she would be sleeping in her room. I was also told that her sister, who is engaged, has never shared a room with her fiance at their parent’s home. I told my girl that that was fine, and I respected her parents wishes, but that not sharing a bed with her on this vacation was unacceptable and that I’d be getting a hotel room for the weekend. Before I could thank her parents for their hospitality and call a local hotel my girl asked to speak with them first. Next thing I know we are sharing her sisters bed. We spent the rest of the weekend going at it like rabbits and the sister’s fiance still slept on the couch.
I sent him your way.
I forwarded him a copy of The Primer for the fiance. I’m sure sleeping on the couch was a horrible thing to put himself through, but as red pill moments go, it’s not that bad. But if you are a fiance sleeping on the couch against your will, you are a lamb for the marriage slaughter. Please read the damn book. Anyone can do this.


  1. Anonymous says:


    Will you allow your own daughters to share their beds with a visiting boyfriend (when they're a bit older, of course)?

    Just wondering…

  2. Sweet As says:

    Athol, how do we correctly pronounce your name, taking into consideration the american accent?

    it's sounding like a not-nice word, and we're sure that's not right. :) Much love to you.

  3. haleyshalo says:

    I'm disgusted at the pushover parents.

  4. Anonymous says:

    Of course he will allow his daughters to share their beds with visiting boyfriends.
    I am sure he would be most happy, content in the knowledge that they would be going at it like rabbits. ROFL.

  5. Glad to see a man standing up for himself, though the father here is not to be envied.

    Out-alphaed by some random ass from the street through the "bitches" in his life and in his own house to boot.
    And yes, bitches isn´t too harsh a word as clearly neither his daughter nor his own wife were respecting his wishes.

    MAJOR lesson for any father to be seen here. I myself would´ve handed the yellow pages to this guy and given him a time when to turn up for breakfast.

  6. Fair play to the guy – I have much more respect for someone who is upfront about it than someone who will sneak his girlfriend into his room later.

  7. Oh, and while I can see hans' point of view here re being out-alphaed, in that situation the father has to expect that the daughter may very well follow the boyfriend to the hotel.

    Then again, the girfriend might have wanted to mention the usual sleeping arrangements before they arrived!

  8. Anonymous says:

    Did he not read the chapter about virginity until marriage? Apparently this fellow likes to tale sex with no commitment and call it Alpha.

    Also,if this young woman is encouraged to disrespect her parents wishes and selfishly indulge herself and the boyfriend (you can't wait a couple of days?) she and he may later have no problem disrespecting each other. It is good manners and kindness to respect your host on most things,let alone a first time spent with the girl's parents,and if he does not agree,off to the hotel he should go.

    Did he consider that this "wonderful" girl may have gotten that way(wonderful) because she was raised with some basic moral limits by her parents? The father in this case has showed great weakness and a bad example to this young man. Where I come from the dad's correction of the mistake would be: waiting at the breakfast table with a smile and a crushing handshake,asking when the wedding date was…..(mebbe a shotgun thrown in for good measure,,).

    Another thing to consider is that this girl's response to his "alpha" moves may have come from a healthy love and respect of her father. Her father may have laid the groundwork,so to speak. Why thumb your nose at the old man then (or the girl's mother) in that case. Show some respect and some self control man–life is not all about getting some.

  9. Athol Kay says:

    What my own daughters do is ultimately their business. I can educate and influence them for sure, but if an adult daughter is already living with someone, demanding that her clear and obvious sexual relationship stop while in my house would seem to be not only closing the barn door after the horse has bolted, but demanding that the horse come back to the barn and bolt two days later.

    At the point where a daughter would rather live in a hotel than stay in your house, you really fo have to accept that the nature of your relationship has changed.

    I think when that time comes, I too would rather have my daughter.

  10. Anonymous says:

    Could this girl have also been using this man to do a shit test on parents and her sister and her boyfriend? Realize this is a dark way of looking at things but consider her possible thoughts:
    1. My sister is engagaged and I am not. Solution: bring the guy home with me and show off that I have a man,too. Better yet,I'll sleep with him right under my parents noses,in your bed, and you and your fiancee won't be sleeping together. Na,na,na,na,na.
    2.I don't want to do the dirty work of facing off with my parents on this issue I'll let him do it! Then he'll get the blame if this blows up in to a real issue.
    3. Parents just don't get it,I just want to shack up with my boyfriend even though you are not comfortable with this under your own roof (which,by the way is this girl's parents home,not her official residence at this time)–whine,whine,whine.
    4. Hmmmm,he's sleeping with me regularly now,I guess it's time for him to meet the parents and maybe he'll ask me to get married. And maybe if we do it like rabbits right here in my sister's bed he'll love me even more and ask me to marry him!
    You don't think women think this way???? Just think these two were acting in a rude and immature fashion to the very two people who brought this girl into the world,loved her and raised her. Who is this guy to stick his cock into that situation and this girl to be so self indulgent? So you don't agree with the parents on this issue. Be an adult and realize getting along with people sometimes involves compromise and giving up your wish list.

    By the way,marrying the girl could easily resolve this situation.Same girl,same parents,same bed,same fun sex–no need for tense family issue.

  11. Sex without commitment is alpha by definition, it's creating attraction without pair bonding. Believe me it's much more fun for a guy than the opposite, being a beta orbiter. Neither alpha nor beta here say anything about what works for social interactions, just sexual ones. Socio-sexual status is for
    I don't get the hate on reader. He established his frame and a way to honor both his wishes & her parents wishes. It's his girl who insisted on neutering her father, which is a good indicator that she's not the virginal innocent some commenters seem to want to defend. Reader failed a time bomb shit test here by allowing her to disrespect the head of the house, which will surpise him years later when he tries to insist on respect as head of a house with her. Of course, if he's smart enough to see what this episode says about her character, he'll avoid that trap. Might advise the fiance to get out as well, not likely that dad did much better with the sister.

  12. Anonymous says:

    You've dropped the ball here, sorry. Children, even adult children, should respect the rules of their parents' house. Otherwise, why not just open your bedrooms to your kids and their boyfriends as soon as they turn 18? Give them a place to go at it like rabbits? Thought that was reserved for marriage?

  13. Anonymous says:

    Ditto Anon @ 626. The only two people who come out of that story looking ok are the sister and sister's fiance. I'm not against sex before marriage, but I would never behave that way towards my parents or in-laws.My parents wouldn't indulge me if I tried. And bragging about it on a blog in a way that paints the parents as chumps makes it worse even if it's anonymous. My parents had to push back on their parents at times, but they never reveled in doing so and would never gloat about it in a public forum or even discuss it outside the immediate family. I agree with the above Anon that this story shows a lack of kindness and is a red flag regarding how the couple will approach disagreements in their own relationship: turn every minor disagreement into an ultimatum (my way or the hotel) and interpret the result as a win or loss. The only thing that gives me hope is that they're still pretty young and have time to mature.

  14. I gotta go with the boyfriend being in the wrong here. He can still be alpha without going against the parents wishes. He should have shown some respect for the girlfriend and the parents and showed the beta balance in this situation. In my opinion, he went real fast from alpha to asshole.

    Athol, as your whole point is to balance the alpha and the beta I think your reader failed here.

  15. Anonymous says:

    "I am sure he would be most happy, content in the knowledge that they would be going at it like rabbits. ROFL."

    Hopefully, they kept the porno soundtrack at a low volume, at least. That would have been a bit crude to make the folks listen to their daughter moaning and shrieking while "alpha" jackhammers away. Hope poor Mom didn't get stuck cleaning up the semen.

    Apparently, being "alpha" means being a total asshole; he figuratively walked up to Dad and kicked him in the balls.

  16. Been thinking about this for a while and I think there was a much better way to deal with this, especially if daddy is alpha (I am not assuming he is in this case as he caved. Also, the girlfriend spoke to daddy, not the boyfriend. Pitting daughter against father is not a good move, unless you know for a fact that is the way she wants it).

    Here is what I think would have been a better solution and everyone is happy. Respect the parents wishes, but then make it VERY clear to the girlfriend that when you get home she is dead (read: she will not be able to walk for three days). Then every moment you have alone together tease the hell out of her. Go for the deep, tingle inducing kisses. Rub her through her clothes, make faces at her across the room when people are there but nor looking. She will likely respond in kind. By the time you both get home, it will be difficult to even make it through the door. The sex will be amazing and it was respectful to all involved.

  17. Crowhill says:

    I apologize if this is a re-post. Comments are acting funny.

    I would like to point out that it is entirely possible to follow Athol's general advice and remain faithful to traditional sexual ethics — e.g., saving sex for marriage.

    In fact, a lot of what Athol says reminds me of what I learned in the Evangelical church I attended in college. Their "servant leader" take on the husband's role is very similar to Athol's the "mix the Alpha and Beta" thing.

  18. My two brothers and I have all moved out off the house of our parents.

    When I brought my girlfriend home for the first time (they'd met before) my parents informed me that in our previous bedrooms, the single beds had been replaced with doubles.

    A good parent educates his/her children on responsible and healthy (sexual and general) behaviour.

    That means on the one hand teaching how to discriminately choose sex partners (How To Not Be A Ho 101) but on the other hand also teaching that sex is good-not-bad and the foundation of a solid, durable relationship.

    It's not about your daughter having sex, it's about her having sex with a committed, good man.

  19. I agree the only two that came off well was the sister and the fiancee, for several reasons:

    1. The GF should have known / prepped the BF about the sleeping arrangements long before he arrived. Surely she knew this was a standing rule in her parents home. In that way, they could have made the decisions together on whether to stay w/the family and sleep apart, or get a hotel room together. It seems very passive agressive for all this to go down when BF arrives. If I were the BF, this would be a big red flag on how the girl is unable to handle herself as an adult around her parents.

    2. Once the BF found out, he says "I told my girl that that was fine, and I respected her parents wishes, but that not sharing a bed with her on this vacation was unacceptable and that I'd be getting a hotel room for the weekend." Staying and boinking the daughter is *not* respecting the parents wishes. Getting a hotel room or keeping with the sleeping arrangement is much more respectful. Huge red flag for me if I'm the GF…this guy's needs come first before anyone else.

    3. If my daughter pulled this one me over some guy she's dating, I'd say, "darling, here's the closest hotel. Have fun and we'll see you at dinner after church." I would not cave, and I wouldn't lose my daughter over this. She wants to be treated like an adult? Act like one and date one…if she and her boyfriend are living together already (and Athol, I didn't see that in his letter), and she's hiding it from me, she's not acting like an adult.

    Finally, I agree with Athol in that If they're living together and everyone knows it (which I saw no evidence for in the letter), then if I invite them over for a family weekend then I'm giving them a room together (unless there are young children living / visiting over…then I'm giving them directions to the nearest hotel again.)

  20. It's also not clear if the GF still lives with her parents.

  21. Anonymous says:

    I'm leaning toward the BF being a bit of an a-hole, but the gf seems to have dropped the ball too. One would assume that she is aware of her parents feelings and would have told the BF ahead of time. They could have discussed sleeping arrangements beforehand.

    Personally, if you are dating, but not living together then you should sleep separately when visiting parentals who have a "separate sleep" policy.

    Living together couples should asses together what their best sleeping arrangements would be.

    When my now husband and I were living together, we slept in separate rooms when visiting my parents. My mom didn't particularly care as she knew we were having sex, but my dad liked to live in ignorant bliss. Saw no reason to shove anything in his face. And we found plenty of opportunities for some nookie anyway.

    Posters comment that separate sleeping arrangements were unacceptable was in itself unacceptable. You're in another persons home. respect their wishes. he put GF in a tough spot, him or her family. So not fair to her. Had my guy pulled that with me I probably would've ripped him a new one…….

  22. Anonymous says:

    Howdy all,
    After reading through the comments, it is very clear to me that I should have included more context in the original email. I also want to make some things clear about the relationship we have.
    My girlfriend and I are both in our late twenties and have been together almost a year now. We have lived together for three months out of that period, mostly because we live in different states due to work and school commitments (she is working and getting her Ph.D., and I’m currently getting an Ll.M. in Tax). We had not seen each other in a month and a half prior to Easter, and will not be able to see each other again for another month. We have both had sexual partners prior to the relationship, and the fact that we are sexually active was known to all.
    The closest thing to an ultimatum was that either we would share a bed, or that we would share a bed. I refuse to go behind her parents back to have intimate contact with her, and I refuse to let someone else dictate the conditions of our relationship. I fully expected to be handed the yellow pages, the fact that her parents changed their policy for us was simply a best case result.
    I also kept the beta balance up. I walked in the door with flowers for her mother. I happily helped with dishes, laundry, and any carrying chores I could. We kept our intimate behavior to the bedroom, kept quiet, and did our own laundry.
    As to the results of the weekend, her family adores me. Her brother gave me a cigar, her sister welcomed me to the family, and upon dropping me off at the airport her mother gave me a hug, a kiss on the cheek, and informed me that before my next visit there would be a larger bed in my girlfriend’s room. I truly believe that they saw in my behavior someone that was alpha enough to provide a good match to their daughter, essentially a fitness test for me as a possible son-in-law.
    My girlfriend and I are in a committed relationship. I absolutely see myself spending the rest of my life with this woman. The fact that we are not engaged at this point is the result of a personal belief. I will not ask her to spend the rest of her life with me while I’m still a student. Call me old fashioned, but expectation of a future career is not something that I feel comfortable asking her to gamble on.
    I hope this clears things up a bit.

  23. Anonymous says:

  24. luckyguy19 says:

    For me, one of the most important parts of a Vacation is sex in new places. When my wife and I go on vacation with our daughter, we try to book suites whenever possible.
    A couple of years ago we went on a vacation with my wife’s sister and mother. For monetary reasons we had to stay in a single room with two beds. We took showers together every day. I got a lot of blow jobs, middle of the night quiet sex, and even had sex in the rental van. My wife knows I would never have agreed to go on a week-long vacation with no sex. The mother and sister knew what was going on, they even teased us a couple of times. But it’s not a vacation without sex.
    As for if I was in this situation with my daughter. It would depend on age and type of relationship. I would certainly not deny them sleeping in the same bed if they were over 18 and in a long term relationship. What is the difference if they are having sex in your house or in a hotel????? I don’t really believe it’s a respect thing.

  25. Yay, for getting sold out Kay!

    And props to the OP of this story then. The added context really helps with dispelling the slightly doushy way it all looked to me in the blog-post.

    And yeah, this WAS a shit-test by the whole family no less. You passed, not so sure about the couch sleeper there. ;)
    Probably a very good idea for him to read that book.

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