Girl’s Night Out!

It’s like Facebook, but with drinks…
My phone was accidently on vibrate in my purse. That’s why I never answered you all night.
Don’t be silly. You’re so paranoid and controlling.
Sarah got really drunk so I drove her home before I came home. That’s why I didn’t get back here until 2am.
It was a bunch of us from work, how could I not go?
The only guy that was there was Mike and he’s an asshole. You’ve got nothing to worry about.
Add yours in the comments….


  1. Anonymous says:

    Don't for a second consider that Mike was the only guy there, he also is an asshole, and you definitely have nothing to worry about. Discount that guys can be controlling and paranoid. Jesus, you sound like there are no girls in the world that are loyal out of love, and that never wavers.

  2. That guy texting me is just a friend

  3. Anonymous says:

    …And then (insert her friend's name) was talking with these guys and I'm not going to leave her there with them and just come home.

    Scenario #2

    We went and grabbed something to eat after because we were hungry. The night was pretty boring anyways.

  4. We just got in contact via Facebook. He's from way back in my past and just wants to catch up. There's definitely nothing going on.

  5. Never is a very long time for a human, and around here we believe in the radical notion that women are human too. With all the lying, cheating, backstabbing, and rationalization that humanity implies. Family court will eventually teach you what you refuse to learn from Athol, Anon.

  6. Anonymous says:

    I only invited him to join us because he's lonely. I don't think he has all that many friends.

  7. Anonymous says:

    "The only guy that was there was Mike and he's an asshole. You've got nothing to worry about"

    hamster rationalisation roughly meaning:
    Mike is an asshole, but i get gina tingles for a good asshole, i love to be dominated by a strong alpha asshole so step up my man or i will fuck him behind your back and rationalise it to such an extent that i was clearly justified in my cheating…..

  8. Rebekah says:

    So basically the boys doon't trust us on GNO anymore than we trust them when they have a Guys Night Out. I'd call that a wash.

  9. ExtremeBalance says:

    "He's helping me with a project."

    @ Rebekah – a lot of guys thought they could trust their woman unequivocally because we were taught that women were more moral than men.

  10. Anonymous says:

    Why are you so paranoid? Are you threatened or intimidated by him?

  11. Anonymous says:

    Now let's all come up for good reasons that men stay out until 4 in the morning.

  12. The Private Man says:

    Where I live, it's a girls one-week vacation and the girls are an easy target. Running Game on some tipsy tarts (especially the married ones) is vastly entertaining because their inhibitions are pretty much gone because of being away from home and husband.

    If women are thought to be more restrained and moral, come on down to where I live (South Florida) and witness the debauchery of a group of married women without their husbands while on a booze-soaked vacation.

  13. dannyfrom504 says:

    "you've got nothing to worry about" = YOU BETTER WORRY.

    she probably smelled a bit like clorox when she got home. sad.

    just got your book brother, i'm digging it.

  14. OK, I see lots of suspicious things wives may say when they are out with the girls, but what's the point of this post? Where's the sensible, helpful part about how husbands should handle girls nights out without looking like a paranoid domineering ass? All I'm seeing is a whole lot of 'women lie and cheat' but what about 'here's what is acceptable behaviour and here's what's not', what about 'here's how two people in a loving, trusting relationship handle being apart for a few hours in the company of alcohol'?

    Without wanting to sound like anyone's parent, I'm really disappointed by this.

  15. Jason P. says:

    My wife texts me quite often on GNO. In fact, I get a few texts whenever she's away and I'm not with her.

  16. Rebekah says:

    LJ… here are some "rules" my ex and I had when going out without the other…

    1) Three drink limit. We could drink whatever we wanted, but three was the limit. This generally let us get a buzz, but also let us keep our wits. Also, makes you just horny enough to go home and screw like rabbits.

    2) No buying drinks/accepting drinks from the opposite sex. Might sound dumb, but you'd be surprised what kind of opportunities this will open if you're not careful.

    3) 2am curfew. This kept the angry texts to a minimum. Hearing your phone go off at a noisy club is next to impossible. We let the other one be free without texting/calling every 10 minutes, but if we weren't home at 2am…let the angry texts begin!!

    These all still involve a level of trust, but it is pretty amazing what a little freedom will do to keep you faithful. May not work for everyone, but they worked for us.

  17. Rebekah – that's exactly the helpful kind of stuff I'd hoped to see.

    My husband and I don't often go out on guys/ girls nights out – we live quite a distance from the nearest big town so when we do go we tend to go all out – he usually stays over with friends and I have no problem with it – I trust him.

    We stay in fairly regular contact though and maybe it's just us but there's nothing like a night out without him to make me very glad I'm not in the singles arena anymore – I certainly go home very appreciative of who is waiting for me.

    I do, however, think that the wife or husband's friends play a big part in how the evening could turn out – and if her/ his friends are a bad influence then I can understand the concern.

  18. Rebekah, my wife and I have pretty much the same set of rules, plus a 'no dancing' rule if there is dancing involved. They have worked out well over the years.

    One nice thing is that as we've aged, "Girl's Night Out" and "Guys Night Out" have become more and more likely to involve going places where the opposite sex is not going to be much of a factor, such as a guys overnight fishing trip or the ladies going off for a weekend at a spa (I'd rather send my wife to a weekend at a spa than a few hours at a bar/club… especially considering the fact that she makes reletnless fun of men who get pedis).

    The trust we built up over those early years of marriage serves us well on these extended trips, and is something we have both learned to cherish in our marriage as we see other couples around us who don't trust eachother at all (i.e., who never do anything away from eachother, or who try to but fight about it so much they can't enjoy themselves).

  19. may/dec marriage says:

    No matter the years of marriage or the mass amounts of trust a husband and wife have for each other, they will always have a thought or wonder of the other cheating. Even when they've never given the other any reason otherwise. The post could be taken as either harmless or alarming depending on how you feel about your own relationship.

  20. Absolutely, but at some point you have to decide to either trust them or not. That doesn't mean you act stupid about it. I used to work with this woman who gave her husband money to go the titty bar on Friday night and get all worked up before he came home. Everybody thought she was the coolest wife on the planet… right up until she caught her husband having an affair with a stripper. She was practically begging to be cheated on. That amount of trust is plain stupid.

    But if your significant other can't occasionally go away with friends for a few hours, or even for a weekend, without you being tortured by mental images of them fooling around, then you either have an overactive imagination or a problem in your marriage.

  21. By The Sword says:

    Get home later than she does and smelling of perfume (faint) and booze. That should put an end to Girls Night Out.

  22. Rohdewarrior says:

    I guess I'm probably an old Geezer, but I don't see the necessity for GNOs that involve going to bars or other places where hook-ups are a possibility.
    If I want to meet up with my guy friends we are going to play a sport or watch a sport at one of their houses or do something else fun where interaction with the opposite sex would be happenstance at best.
    Similarly, my wife would go on a wine-tasting, see a movie, go over to someone's house, or join a book club.
    If one of us is going to a potential pick-up joint, we are going together.
    — Happily and monogamously married for 28 years.

  23. Athol Kay says:

    Rebekah – "my ex"? I don't want to jump the gun here, but that would seem to weaken your advice greatly.

    LJ – I'm currently dealing with three different guys via email that had those lines given to them. 3 for 3 with cheating wives/girlfriends in the aftermath.

    Rohdewarrior – Exactly.

  24. knightblaster says:

    So basically the boys doon't trust us on GNO anymore than we trust them when they have a Guys Night Out. I'd call that a wash.

    Except that, generally speaking, women have much more access to ONS sex than men do. Men are more likely to get pissed drunk on a boys night out, whereas women are more likely to get laid on a girls night out. Just because its easier for women to get laid, and a GNO provides the perfect cover.

    I'm with Athol on this one.

  25. Athol Kay says:

    Also watch a GNO very very carefully when it syncs with ovulation.

  26. Anonymous says:

    Oooh! I remember a case of "He's helping me study for the GREs" = "He gives AMAZING oral sex and I'm going to brag about it to all of my friends!"

    I'm so happy that this community exists for us recovering betas.

  27. dannyfrom504 says:

    so they DID cheat. smh. that's just sad. is it wives or gf's, or both?

  28. Anonymous says:

    "recovering betas"……. that's funny. I am gonna remember that one.

  29. Anonymous says:

    Hint: if you honestly need to be this suspicious/wary, to the point of doing ovulation checks (oh my effin' gawd!), you are with the WRONG WOMAN! (How does one do a definitive check for ovulation – stick your fingers up there and investigate for cervical mucous? Do a saliva test and run it to the lab? Why not have her hop up on the home exam table and get out the speculum? Check before and after GNO!

    Yeah, it's easier for us females to get laid, but that doesn't mean we "get laid." I have probably turned down about a hundred or so "opportunities" in my lifetime, some from very good looking men, both when I was single and not dating anyone, and after getting married. Most women would tell you the same. I suppose that's hard for betas to wrap their heads (heh, heh) around…passing up sex!

    Sometimes we just want to go out with the girlfriends, laugh, listen to music and do our "girltalk" without boring the boyfriends or husbands; not pick up some strange dick. Honest.

  30. Athol Kay says:

    Anon 10:13 – ovulation is pretty easily trackable to within a day plus or minus if you know when she last started her period.

    Dannyfrom504 – yes they did all cheat. One was a straight up lie that it was a GNO. GNO was the cover for a hotel date with the other man. The other two had something start on a GNO, poorly addressed by the bf/husband, and eventual cheating played out.

    One divorce started, an up in the air and one guy isn't responding to email for last three days.

    Sorry to the ladies if all this is offensive, but it's a blog aimed mostly at men and I deal with some pretty raw stuff on a daily basis.

  31. The MacNut says:

    "Sometimes we just want to go out with the girlfriends, laugh, listen to music and do our "girltalk" without boring the boyfriends or husbands; not pick up some strange dick. Honest."

    The problem is, how's a man to know if you're being honest? Many a man has been too trusting about GNOs and been burned badly-it's all too easy for married women on GNOs at clubs or bars getting drunk and then something "just happens".

    Sure you can cheat anywhere, but some environments and occasions make it more likely to happen, especially to the "modern, liberated woman" who tends to feel more entitled to "follow her feelings" to the exclusion of all else, including any commitments she may have made.

  32. may/dec marriage says:

    Don't put yourselves in a questionable position and your other half won't have anything to worry about. Duh.

  33. "Sometimes we just want to go out with the girlfriends, laugh, listen to music and do our 'girltalk' without boring the boyfriends or husbands; not pick up some strange dick."
    Well then why do you have to go to a meet market? This same thing could be accomplished at someone else's house. It's for the male attention, acted on or not. Quit lying to yourself.

  34. Trimegistus says:

    I solved this problem right at the start of the relationship: I fell for a woman who doesn't like to go out drinking.

  35. Are we done with the women bashing yet? What of all the women who go out dancing with a group of friends and return home to their trusting loving boyfriends/husbands faithfully? If your relationship isn't having major problems, there shouldn't be any issues with spending an evening out without your SO.

  36. Jim Hollywood says:

    @ may/dec marriage — exactly. Men are socially beat up, called jealous and controlling for not trusting their wives to just "play" with these guys that are trying to bed them. At best this is just foreplay for the women, however their excitement for the husband drops off as this activities continues. So the marriage suffers. Then they become dissatified with the husband. They take on riskier behavior. You do the math.
    It will all be justified.

    Most men want to trust thier wives. The men who do not understand this meat market scene believe that their wife would never put herself in a vulnerable spot and are willing to take the risk. They should probably take a trip out and observe their wives GNO behavior. Or at the least check out what goes on at these places.

    I say man-up.

  37. Anonymous says:

    Is this really how it goes

    I'm reading the book now, and so far its great. But I have to ask: does this really go on for the entire marraige? Honestly part of why I enjoy being married is NOT having to continue playing these kind of attraction games. I'm disheartened to find that if I want my relationship to last, I have to keep the act up for the length of the relationship. I am good with most of the info, but what I'm seeing here is leading me to believe either I play the game entirely, or risk losing my relationship.

    What a load of crap I was fed by growing up. That once I found and married my "one" I could finally settle down and get comfortable. It looks like that isn't the case at all, and frankly I hate playing games.

    But this thread clearly shows that the truth is if you don't, you'll lose it. Very depressing…

  38. Anonymous says:

    @ Anon 2:05 PM

    I had this question at first as well, but the simple answer is: if your behaviors & boundaries are set properly, then you really aren't "playing games".

    Setting a boundary is the hard part. If you have boundaries that leave open a huge chance for an affair or cause breakdown in the marriage, then you need to play games for the rest of your life to keep your spouse. IF you set the boundaries that don't produce that situation, then you won't have a lot of problems on that front. You're supposed to Love & Support your spouse… which means helping them stay away from destructive behaviors. That isn't playing a game, that's loving the other person.

    Another part of what Athol is doing is helping people realize that your interactions, over time, build up. There is an instinct/physical need/biological imperative (pick your term of choice) that we all try to fill. If, over time, you are constantly lacking this, those interactions build up and you wear down each other. (This is how actual interrogations work, by the way. You wear down the person to the point they'll tell you want you want to know, it all just depends how long it takes. So, taking this, if you're in a marriage for, say, 10 years and one of the partners is not having a need meet, you build up the possibility of more issues. Most don't end in affairs, they just kill the relationship and *everyone* is worse off with a marriage that dies because a couple don't "love" each other any more)

    Also, it should be mentioned that what brought this up from Athol is really far down the road of relationship problems. There's normally a lot of problems (or the relationship is over) before most people get here, frankly. (Goes for me too!) So, in some ways this is just Athol venting about being so close yet so far. Which is sad for everyone involved.

    As to the actual bit about GNOs, let's confine down what we're talking about. Going out with friends to a Knitting club and drinking Iced Tea isn't the issue. The issue is having your female significant other dressing up, going to a place where people hook up all the time & drinking. And she's there with people that *will not* be looking out for themselves and her. That's just stupid. There's not much of a difference from suggesting that she get drunk and walk around naked at a Frat Party with lots of drunk men. The difference is of degree, not kind. But, if the GNOs with lots of drinking were *acceptable* to the Male in the relationship, that boundary is set and has to be changed or the relationship is going to be killed.

    The Male analogue to this is the Strip Club. Guys need time with other guys, but accepting that your man goes to a strip club is just setting up an affair in the exact same kind of way. You have a boundary that's set that opens up a huge possibility of relationship troubles. You don't do this is if you want the relationship to survive.

    Also, what Athol is preaching (hehe) is ways to make yourself better & happier. You have to put work into your relationships. Why not work BETTER and not cause problems when doing it? It's kind of like a medical advance: use "old + might kill you" or "new & no risk of death", which would you choose to do, first?

  39. Anonymous says:

    Sorry, this sounds like a bunch of jealous twerps incapable of having conversations with their ladies about acceptable behavior and incapable of trusting their ladies to stay within those boundaries. If a couple drinks and a smile from an attractive stranger is all it takes for your lady to drop her panties your problems are far bigger than girls night out. You can't keep he in the house 24/7. You can't go everywhere with her. Ultimately you can't prevent her from doing what she's going to do. A lot of Athol's game plan makes sense but this girls night out rant reeks of scared insecurity.

  40. Anonymous says:

    Ditto with Anonymous @ 10:29. And really, it sounds like some of you guys are projecting — intensely and insanely! Is it that if you got a smile and a wink from a pretty woman at a Guys Nite Out, you'd be dropping your own shorts quicker than a New York minute (while wifey is at home wearing her ankle bracelet monitor)?

    Obviously, if your wife is hitting the meat markets on a regular basis, you have cause for concern, but a occasional nite out with the girls shouldn't be such a problem. Most of us don't drop our panties that easily nor do we long to get impregnated by handsome strangers — stop drinking that kool-aid slop the MRA sites are peddling.

  41. Jim Hollywood says:

    I would add that I am personally very fortunate to have a wife that has never been interested in this type of GNO. Still it amazes me how easy folks dismiss what amounts to cheating behavior as harmless fun. It is only cheating once in a while. Marriage with benefits. Cake eating. At the bare minimum it is "single" behavior.

    Hitting the meat markets on a regular basis is absolutley cause for concern. But why is hitting the meat markets a good thing at all? For either the husband or the wife? You can't say it is fine for one without the other. Maybe it is felt that an occasional open marraige night out is ok.

    No point in slamming men in general if we are talking about a guy who is faithful and is home watching the kiddos while his wifey is drinking, flirting, dancing … with other men. Single guys and married men who intend to be unfaithful to their wives.

    Faithful husbands have every right to expect their wives to be trust worthy. A trust worthy person does not put themselves into this type of vulnerable situation and they further do not demonstrate disrespect for their spouse in this manner.

    The bottom line this type of behavior is hurting many marriages.

    No one is saying GNOs are bad. But it is Girls Night Out. Not Guys except my husband Night Out.

    Messed up.

  42. Anonymous says:

    "Sorry, this sounds like a bunch of jealous twerps incapable of having conversations with their ladies about acceptable behavior and incapable of trusting their ladies to stay within those boundaries."

    I don't think you understand the nature of this website and its advice.

    Pointing out that GNO is threatening to a marriage is not woman-bashing, and it's not insecurity. It's an observation of fact based on evolution.

    The simple, biological fact is that women who WANT to engage in this GNO behavior are on the make. They either want the sexual attention from other men, or they want the sex. Most women are not sufficiently self-aware to tell the difference, and end up being as surprised as anyone to find out that their scruples and morals weren't strong enough to prevent them from spreading their legs for another man.

    All the talking and trusting and boundaries aren't going to overcome evolutionary urges. These GNO behaviors are red flags, warning signs, non-verbal forms of communication. Most men are too stupid to hear them. So, they are surprised when they get served with divorce papers shortly before his wife moves some other guy into what was once his bed.

    If a man wants to stop this from happening, he needs to act in ways that promote his wife's bonding to him — be fit, dominant, reliable, etc. These traits encourage her to have a strong sexual desire for him (not just acquiescence), as well as a certain measure of fear of losing him if he decides to reject her for behaving like a woman in search of opportunities for infidelity.

  43. Anonymous says:

    "I love you, and I'd never do anything to jeopardize that!" She told me before being too drunk to come home, and crashing at Ally's house. Later found out she cheated.

  44. Tinderbox says:

    Holy cow, sure are a lot more trolls and shamers commenting on the blog now. The perils of publicity.

  45. pdwalker says:


    Regardless of the trolls, it still doesn't change the fundamental truths exposed here.

  46. bettaasksomebody says:

    Been there. My lady announced that she was doing the girls night out thing. She looked at me and laid down the rule. She needs space. That’s that. I knew not to touch that issue without getting lectured by her and/or her friends. So, I obediently step aside and don’t ask any questions. Good little hubby I am.
    Oh, so anyway it opened the door for this kind hearted lady who brings astro-glide and rides my d@#$ so hard that my eyes roll back in my head. Hooray, girls night out!!! Cheers Ladies.

  47. I would tend to agree with any GNO being a way to go get attention from the opposite sex. You’re dressing up. Going to bars or clubs. I really never had a desire for that crap. If I want to drink, I want good, microbrewed beer, not cheap shit in a pitcher from a meat market dance club. Come on! Anyone who is dolling up or dressing dapper and heading to dance clubs is looking for attention whether consciously or not. Dancing IS sexual. Combine that with members of the opposite sex and alcohol and nobody is to be trusted. Even your own mother (eww). A boys weekend fishing trip isn’t even close to equivalent to a girls weekend on a cruise ship or weekend with late nights in Miami. The ladies want a girls weekend in Vegas dancing in meet market dives getting piss drunk? Turn about is fair play ladies. Do you mind if we spend ours in Montreal strip clubs or Amsterdam? The last thing I want is my spouse getting all grind friendly with some greaseball PUA in a club and then come home and tell me, it’s just dancing. Yeah. If it’s just dancing why don’t you ever do that with your brother?

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