No Orgasm Wife… No More

Back on March 27th’s post, I had these comments
Anon 4:46 – The BIG problem in my head is that this is now EVERY time. She used to orgasm with me and now doesn’t. Ever. The pushing away hands happens every time and she acts like it’s a once-in-a-while thing. She can orgasm if I’m in the bedroom, but not if I’m touching her. It’s soul-crushing. I don’t understand why she wants to be married to me. I’m certainly asking myself why I want to be married to her.
Next comment – Maybe she doesn’t know how to help facilitate her own orgasm.
Anon 4:46 – Sure she does. It involves other guys. We had an open relationship. We don’t anymore. She used to orgasm with me, then only with other guys.
Next comment – Open relationship killed yours. Time to get out and move on, she doesn’t respect you that way anymore.
Athol Kay – Anon 4:46am I’m not sure I can help you via comment thread. Email me if you like. Though recovery from your situation sounds very difficult. Give me the whole story.
Good grief the story was long and involved…
There was sexual history mis-match, a tricky vasectomy followed by illness, a sexual shut down, I think medication issue, babies born, him forcing her to swing, then her cheating once, over a decade of shut down and an alpha swinging couple that kicked him out of the bedroom and took over the show with the wife.
It took some unpicking. The swinging had to stop completely – just regard it as an affair thing and punt it from their life. He had to apologize for starting the swinging 14 years ago. He had to call her on the carpet for the cheating 10 years ago and generally stand up for himself. They tried having sex every day for a week, but he stopped it because the sex was so bad. They started counseling together.
He kept the Alpha and Beta stuff coming. But to be honest, it seemed like a lot of baggage and a long road ahead of them.
Then comes email on May 9th…
No no-orgasm-wife no more.
We’ve had lots of great talks. Something I don’t recommend for many guys in marriage crisis. When we got to the point that the both wanted to work on the marriage and were both willing to change things, THEN we could talk about fixing it.
Going from completely betaized, the pendulum HAD to swing too far to the alpha. I don’t think it’s possible to find the happy medium until you’ve been too far. The “master of play” style has worked much better for me than any “jerk bully” type stuff.
Last, I don’t recall you talking much about sexual response patterns. Most guys go from start to orgasm in some sort of smooth curve. Sometimes my wife does too. Much of the time, though, she has a “stair step” sexual response. She goes up and then hits a plateau. (change positions, tactics, approach) She goes up and then hits a plateau.(change positions, tactics, approach) Wash, rinse, repeat. I took this for disinterest until I saw something about it on a Dr. Drew program. Well, last night I took the stairs all the way to the top. Hair pulling started about halfway up the stairs and we finished with her ass-up face-down screaming and pillow biting while holding onto the headboard. So there’s one bit of ignorance banished from our relationship. (Bed will be inspected this morning as it sounded like something gave way.)
I know that this isn’t the end of the road. We still have lots of things to work out in our marriage, but it’s a happy road-sign on the way to where we can both be happy in our 20 year marriage.
In all seriousness, this has been one of the greatest success moments I think I’ve had on the blog. I walked on air for a good two days just thinking about it. I know it’s early days and they have more to go through together, but I know they can make it now.
I emailed him back…
Hi Anon 4:46
Holy crap! Wow! Yes!
That is really good news Anon 4:46 (Ha! how does she like MMSL now?)
He replied…
Still doesn’t like it. Still works as advertised. :-)
Doesn’t like it? Doesn’t like it? LMAO.
I emailed him back and told him to get started on Chapter 24…
…it’s the chapter on spanking.


  1. Anonymous says:

    Nothing will save this relationship.

    The wife just cannot bond..

    Don't know all the details, but swinging at the foolish husbands insistence really sounded the death knell here..

    You reap what you sow, man.

    " Sure she does. It involves other guys. We had an open relationship. We don't anymore. She used to orgasm with me, then only with other guys."

    Pathetic! This guy needs a good kick in the butt.

    And, YOU think that you can help such a selfish creep, AK???

    You're deluded..

    You turned your wife into a slut..

  2. Anonymous says:

    Should have read.. He turned his wife into a slut.

  3. Anonymous says:

    Athol, It is all so much, much more than sex.. Trust, love, fidelity.

    A few good rolls in the hay don't mean a thing.

    Put your oversized ego on the back burner will you.

  4. Anonymous says:

    Ugh, this "marriage" sounds like twenty years of hell, actually, it sounds like a David Lynch movie. This man found a perfect little victim, mindfucked her over and over, destroyed her soul, and then complains that she couldn't have orgasms with him! And I kinda think the pillow-biting orgasm was a faker…just to appease him and keep him in the marriage. Lady…get the hell out of that ugly mess before he does read the chapter on "spanking."

    Some women are just too insecure to leave a marriage and put up with years of abuse. That's what happened here. Not all marriages are worth saving.

  5. Anonymous says:

    I've always thought that men want to go into swinging because they think it allows them to cheat with impunity and because it pressures wifey to let him. The husband who thinks it's great until he discovers that his wife is enjoying herself too is almost a cliche by now.

    I don't think the main problem is that his wife can't bond, as Anon 8:06. I see "pressured her to swing", and I interpret that as "passive agressive asshole". I think the husband plays a huge part in this fustercluck, too.

    Also, on an aside, if you find your wife doesn't like the thought of The Game, then rephrasing it might help. There are a lot of nasty people in the Game blogosphere, and they do tend to hide the fact that it works.

  6. Athol Kay says:

    I got email from Anon 4:46, who hates the comments above….

    I wanted to reply in email so that you would know for sure that it's me.

    I think that there are posters out there with an agenda. They seem to believe that once the slut containment is breached nothing can save the relationship. It's all black and white, one way or another. They fact is, we are smart, sexy people who love each other very much. We both want to save the marriage and are both working hard at it. That hasn't always been the case, but it is now.

    It's true I leveraged the swinging all those years ago. My sex rank was really riding high. She was withholding. It was the only way out that she saw. She suggested swinging. and I went along.

    These comments are all crap. The posters don't know us. They are pushing an anti-swinging anti-Athol agenda. If you don't think a few good rolls in the hay mean anything then what is the significance of sex-starved marriage?

    All of these comments and quotes have some measure of importance and truth. I've worked really hard to get where we are and so has she. Improving our marriage has improved work, parenting, hobbies, finances and so many other parts of our lives. I definitely wasn't the man that I needed to be. I will work on becoming that man until the day I die. She wants to come along for the ride. You can't fix the problem until you acknowledge the problem. We both proceeded by facing the brutal reality of what our marriage had become and never giving up a belief that we would come out better people together or apart, but we preferred together. So far so good.

    I am so sorry to disappoint the posters. We'll just have to make due somehow without their approval. We're happier now than ever. We're better people making better decisions.

    Athol, you may publish or not publish in part or in whole. And thank you Athol, you're a big part of what helped us recognize the problem and set about the difficult task of fixing it. Together.

  7. Athol Kay says:

    And my email reply to Anon 4:46….

    It's not three posters… my hunch is it's one person posting three times in quick succession who is all messed up about their own relationship or lack thereof and your story echoed their issues.

    The progress you and your wife have made to date is remarkable. We both know that there's no way in hell you would have made the progress you did with a traditional counselor set up. You would have spent two weeks waiting for the first appointment and then that would have been an intake session and then a week or two to the next session… yada yada yada. You start emailing me already knowing my approach, so it's just fine tuning it for your particular issues and getting it started.

    Obviously you guys have more to go through together, but this remains one of my proudest moments on the blog. And we also both know that you did all the effort at your end.

    I'll post your comments to the blog.


  8. Anonymous says:

    Lovely couple.. What really impresses me is how much they value their wedding vows..

    How loving and faithfull they have been to each other.

    Such a deep abiding love and trust.

    Hmmm, if you were smart sexy people who love each other then you never would have engaged in swinging in the first place..

    You have trashed yourselves.What was once pure has now been soiled. You have allowed your wife to become a slut..That is something you cannot change. She is a changed person, no matter what you say.

    The trust is blown.. You will never get that back again.

  9. Anonymous says:

    "It's not three posters… my hunch is it's one person posting three times in quick succession"

    Well, duh! The second comment was made to correct an error in the first comment. So obviously the first two anon comments were made by the same person..Any fool can see that.

    "My hunch" heh heh heh.. What a maroon..

  10. Just a College Girl says:

    To the negative pessimistic Anonymouses who aren't brave enough to even make up a name for a comment; what happened to your hope, to the idea of helping your fellow man? All you're doing is trashing the original poster and gloating that he screwed himself over.

    Are you really suggesting that divorce is the best option, or that he's an abusive husband, or that trust can never be rebuilt? I don't think you guys are reading the same blog I am (particularly you, Anon 8:24.)

    We don't know these people; all we have is a couple thousand words and the husband's testimony. Call me naive (and you probably will, and I probably am,)but I would rather be happy that he is gaining some measure of success than assume that their relationship is doomed for eternity.

    You only fail when you stop trying.

  11. Athol Kay says:

    People make mistakes Anon, some people find their way out of them.

    Are you here to help or hurt Anon?

  12. 4:46,

    WOW! Amazing story. To hell and back again, that's the power of the truth.

    Don't worry about the hater(s). It's the nature of the Internet. Along with people like Athol helping out, there are going to be critics who fill in falsehoods when they are not given personal details they aren't entitled to. Sorry you have to read that sort of stuff, but detritus is the price we pay for the low entry barrier that makes things like MMSL possible.

  13. The MacNut says:

    Marriages can and do recover from affairs. I've seen this on the Marriage Builders affair forums (similar to Talk About Marriage, I think, though I haven't read those forums extensively). It's difficult, and it doesn't always work out, but it can and does happen.

    So if a marriage can recover from an affair if both spouses really work at it, then Anon 4:46's marriage can recover from swinging and its other issues, again, as long as both spouses really want it and really work at it. And it looks like they do, so good for them and I wish them the best.

  14. Anonymous says:

    "Still doesn't like it"

    Maybe she doesn't like certain aspects of it. I sure as hell don't, while other parts are true and would work for me; what women don't like won't work for them, and those who say they don't like being treated in a jerky fashion (which some gamers recommend) are serious. Ultimately the fixing of the marriage was due to the husband and wife.

    "If you don't think a few good rolls in the hay mean anything then what is the significance of sex-starved marriage?"

    A deeper problem. Which you guys addressed and fixed. As you both showed, sex between people with neither love nor respect falls flat. By talking, counseling, doing EVERYTHING you both could to fix things (and obviously succeeding), you've proven you both have open eyes and clear minds. Congratulations to you :)

    Jennifer 6

  15. I had several issues with this post. First, that's an awful lot of abuse/jealousy issues going on. We aren't going to get the wife's side of it all, but it sure sounds like husband has been a bit pushy.

    The breakthru orgasm sounds fake fake fake. So guys, please take note:

    1.) Women fake to put an end to the whole sex act. If it's been going on for an hour, we're dried up, bored, and would rather be doing ANYTHING else. So you're gonna get a big show, which should hopefully aid your orgasm.

    2.) Women fake to boost your ego. Breaking the bed is good dramatic stuff so you can brag online.

    3.) Women fake so you'll shut up and leave us alone.

    So in other words, guys, you're not paying attention to her mood or her body. More than likely she'd like to tell you that she doesn't want sex at all that night and would rather spoon. However, if you are the type who's going to throw a temper tantrum if turned down, she may go ahead and screw you with a fake O because 10 minutes of disinterested sex is better than an hour of yelling.


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