Supreme power =/= good with the ladies…
Back on March 27th’s post, I had these comments
Anon 4:46 – The BIG problem in my head is that this is now EVERY time. She used to orgasm with me and now doesn’t. Ever. The pushing away hands happens every time and she acts like it’s a once-in-a-while thing. She can orgasm if I’m in the bedroom, but not if I’m touching her. It’s soul-crushing. I don’t understand why she wants to be married to me. I’m certainly asking myself why I want to be married to her.
Next comment – Maybe she doesn’t know how to help facilitate her own orgasm.
Anon 4:46 – Sure she does. It involves other guys. We had an open relationship. We don’t anymore. She used to orgasm with me, then only with other guys.
Next comment – Open relationship killed yours. Time to get out and move on, she doesn’t respect you that way anymore.
Athol Kay – Anon 4:46am I’m not sure I can help you via comment thread. Email me if you like. Though recovery from your situation sounds very difficult. Give me the whole story.
Good grief the story was long and involved…
There was sexual history mis-match, a tricky vasectomy followed by illness, a sexual shut down, I think medication issue, babies born, him forcing her to swing, then her cheating once, over a decade of shut down and an alpha swinging couple that kicked him out of the bedroom and took over the show with the wife.
It took some unpicking. The swinging had to stop completely – just regard it as an affair thing and punt it from their life. He had to apologize for starting the swinging 14 years ago. He had to call her on the carpet for the cheating 10 years ago and generally stand up for himself. They tried having sex every day for a week, but he stopped it because the sex was so bad. They started counseling together.
He kept the Alpha and Beta stuff coming. But to be honest, it seemed like a lot of baggage and a long road ahead of them.
Then comes email on May 9th…
No no-orgasm-wife no more.
We’ve had lots of great talks. Something I don’t recommend for many guys in marriage crisis. When we got to the point that the both wanted to work on the marriage and were both willing to change things, THEN we could talk about fixing it.
Going from completely betaized, the pendulum HAD to swing too far to the alpha. I don’t think it’s possible to find the happy medium until you’ve been too far. The “master of play” style has worked much better for me than any “jerk bully” type stuff.
Last, I don’t recall you talking much about sexual response patterns. Most guys go from start to orgasm in some sort of smooth curve. Sometimes my wife does too. Much of the time, though, she has a “stair step” sexual response. She goes up and then hits a plateau. (change positions, tactics, approach) She goes up and then hits a plateau.(change positions, tactics, approach) Wash, rinse, repeat. I took this for disinterest until I saw something about it on a Dr. Drew program. Well, last night I took the stairs all the way to the top. Hair pulling started about halfway up the stairs and we finished with her ass-up face-down screaming and pillow biting while holding onto the headboard. So there’s one bit of ignorance banished from our relationship. (Bed will be inspected this morning as it sounded like something gave way.)
I know that this isn’t the end of the road. We still have lots of things to work out in our marriage, but it’s a happy road-sign on the way to where we can both be happy in our 20 year marriage.
In all seriousness, this has been one of the greatest success moments I think I’ve had on the blog. I walked on air for a good two days just thinking about it. I know it’s early days and they have more to go through together, but I know they can make it now.
I emailed him back…
Hi Anon 4:46
Holy crap! Wow! Yes!
That is really good news Anon 4:46 (Ha! how does she like MMSL now?)
Still doesn’t like it. Still works as advertised.
Doesn’t like it? Doesn’t like it? LMAO.
I emailed him back and told him to get started on Chapter 24…
…it’s the chapter on spanking.
I’m still active as I can be on Talk About Marriage. I’ve been commenting on a thread about a pregnant wife leaving her husband suddenly… and my head hurts from banging my head on the wall with him…
If she gets pregnant and has a complete personality change and now hates you for no reason… it just might not be your baby.
If she doesn’t tell you about the pregnancy until the third month… it just might not be your baby.
If you go to her medical appointments to check up on the baby, and she demands you stay in the waiting room at the doctor’s office… it just might not be your baby.
If you take time off work to go to her medical appointment to check up on the baby, and she reschedules it without telling you, to a time when you can’t go… it just might not be your baby.
If you ask for advice on an online forum, about what to do with your pregnant wife filing for divorce, and six people in the first ten replies tell you that it might not be your baby… it just might not be your baby.
If she wasn’t using birth control because you were trying for a baby, but you were working endless double shifts… it just might not be your baby.
If she told you her greatest fear was raising a baby alone, and she then files for divorce while pregnant… it just might not be your baby.
If she tells you that she had a miscarriage and lost the baby, and that was a lie… it just might not be your baby.
If her entire family was horrified at the idea of you divorcing, and then suddenly all changed their mind about it like a school of fish changing direction… it just might not be your baby.
If every single one of these things apply to your situation…
… I’m so sorry.
Not only is it not your baby, the father of the baby probably is sufficiently different in appearance from you to be blindingly obvious. There won’t need to be a paternity test for everyone in the delivery room to know it isn’t yours. As cruel and confusing as her behavior is now, she is trying to avert the horror of that moment for both of you.
Furthermore, both her and her family believe that you will become unsafe when you discover the truth. Which is a very likely possibility – that is an extreme set of things to process and your anger is completely justified – but you can also find yourself spending a goodly portion of your life behind bars for something you did in a few moments of incoherent anger. Her family know the truth and are shielding her from you.
There’s three things you need to do now.
(1) Go to your own family and friends. Be physically in the same room with them. Tell them the story and let yourself have the emotional cascade that is coming. It’s completely normal to become totally unhinged because of this most terrible betrayal. You need to be in a safe place and supported when it happens.
(2) Lawyer up. If by some miracle the baby is yours, or you want to reconcile or whatever, you can always turn the lawyers off later and work it out. However if you absolutely do not want to work it out, and you don’t lawyer up now, later on you may not be able to get yourself out of paying 18 years of child support for her cheating on you.
(3) Be determined to work this situation through to the best after the fact outcome you can for yourself. As I have said, the anger is justified. But at some point you will have to work it through and forgive… not for her benefit, but for yours. I’m not saying forget either… I’m saying find a way to come through this stronger for the experience. Which I know is vastly easier for me to write as a suggestion, than for you to do as a reality.
Unfortunately… the original poster of this question has not returned to the forum for a few days. So this post is really just for me. I fear he has become… unsafe.
Still waiting to see if there’s a video feed eventually, but for now, here’s the text of the segment.
Athol and Jennifer Kay of Bristol, Connecticut have had sex an astonishing 5,000 times during their 16 years of marriage. That’s 86 percent of all their days of matrimony!
“We have had sex more than 5,000 times in our marriage. We’re not looking for a record, we’re looking to connect to each other,” said Jennifer.
Athol dishes on his married life on his popular blog, Married Man Sex Life. He’s also written a book, The Married Man Sex Life Primer.
Athol’s first tip is to start seducing your wife, even when you’re at work. Just send her a playful text.
“Half the time it’s completely non-sexual, and sometimes it’s, ‘so what color are your panties today?’ “ said Jennifer.
A tender touch is key.
“Just standing in front of the sink doing the dishes, he will come up behind me and give me a hug or touch my shoulder. It lets me know that he’s paying attention to me,” said Jennifer.
Intimacy works wonders. For example, Jennifer cuts her husband’s hair.
“I really cut my husband’s hair. It’s just one more of those little things to connect us,” said Jennifer.
And to ignite the sparks, consider a sustained kiss lasting at least 10 seconds.
“It’s those little peck, peck, pecks they do nothing for you, because you actually have to physically connect for a good three, four or five seconds before your brain starts really registering, ‘I’m actually kissing another person,’ “ said Athol.
Good advice. It’s certainly worked wonders for this couple.
Interestingly was that I did most of the talking in the interview and I said some smart stuff, but all recut to focus on mostly Jennifer. Which is fine by me because she is cuter and is my authority to say what I say in the book and the blog.
And in anycase… self-published book, prime-time, national news. Oh yeah.
Everything going as advertised, Jennifer and I are interviewed on Inside Edition Wednesday night. We actually shot the interview at our house last Wednesday, so have been waiting for word on the air date ever since.
It’s going to basically focus on the 5000 lays for the Kays angle as a feel good story, and delve into some of the more popular Sexy Moves mentioned in the book.
Naturally that means we had to demonstrate them for the cameras… and as I keep saying the 10 second kiss is the number one Sexy Move… you’re going to get to watch us making out. Plus some grab ass if they keep it in and I snuck in a finger-hooking-into-her-top-pull-to-kiss move in there somewhere too.
During the shooting I had two moments of realization. The first one was how wonderful it was having Jennifer sitting next to me being lit by professional lighting. I will never forget how radiant she looked in that moment. She is by nature a shy “good girl”, but there she was comfortably chatting on national TV about her sex life and what we do together. She’s wonderful.
The second realization came when we where in the middle of making out together on the stairs… with a camera guy, a sound guy, wired for mikes and a reporter watching us. They shot us from the top of the stairs, stopped us and then started shooting again from the bottom of the stairs and we went back to kissing again. So, um…. none of that bothered me at all…. sooooooo… I think I could do porn.
Jennifer and I are a special couple, but we’re also a normal couple too. We just do normal especially well. What we have together is not a fairy tale, but a real relationship and a functional family life together. I know the whole 5000 times thing sounds like a gimmick… but we really did that. We are real.
This could just be
fifteen six minutes of fame. Or it could be the tipping point that launches us into Athol and Jennifer 2.0. Whatever that is… we will just have to wait and see. I don’t care what it is to be honest, just as long as I can keep Jennifer with me.
Gotta admit though… I’d prefer it played out like this….
Reader comments on Girl Game: When Your Sex Drive is Higher Than His
(This is all the same reader by the way… in a sort of Stream-of-Hamster-Consciousness…)
I Think your missing the bigger picture in this question. As a wife in this situation it’s not the lack of sex so much as the sex I get when I do get it. I’m a 4-7 times a week kinda girl. My dh is a 2-3 times a week guy. I’m also 13 yrs younger. I would be alright with 3 times a week if it was come up behind me, grind a hard cock against my ass, throw me on the bed and fuck me sore sex. Then I don’t think I would mind a slight pause in between. The problem is my dh will do me every other day. Sometimes everyday. IF I ASK. If I do all the dirty work. If I approach him if I blow him. Yadda yadda. So is allota ok sex better than really good sometimes sex. Not for me. What I miss, What I’m craving is the pursuit. I want to feel wanted. Not humored. There are times when I’m horny and I approach, am given the green light and then almost lose interest as I know that I have to fondle for 5 mins the suck another 5 before he’s even ready. It’s routine. It’s boring. It’s not hot. So what do I do? I don’t want a vibrator (have one) but that’s not what I’m looking for. For me the suggestion of have him just not cum half the time seems…. Like I might as well just use the shower head. I think that alot of the women who ask you this question are not seeking the sex as much as the chase. Or lack off
I doesn’t matter if it’s once a day or once a week (I’ve tried this) it’s the same level of interest either way. I dont keep him limp all the time, mostly when I’m ovulating Im just extra horny and like it 24/7
On average I’d say were a 3-4/wk couple. I said if I ASK I can get some everyday. Not that I do ask everyday. I’m trim. Long hair. Look nice. Wear the thongs he likes. So what else do I do? Because ur blog is all about giving ur man all the sex he want and things will be awesome. But what if all the sex HE WANTS is less than I want? I do all the things as far a my appearance goes that I can do. So what next? ( I know that tone doesn’t come across so well in writing, I’m not trying to be snarky, I really do want to know) because I tolerate the lack of sex as I very much love my husband. But I am not happy about it. I think my husband is hot. I want him. Alot. So what gives? I’ve done the back of and let him approach. Doesn’t work. He will approach me. But once a week. Seriously Athol would u be good with once a week?
Oh and as far as the suggestion above. I don’t get the point. For me one of the greatest parts of sex is satisfying my partner. Of having that together. And doubt he would go for that anyway. I’ve asked for him to just “do me” on occasion and he thinks that is selfish on my part. That he should be included or I should wait.
Never mind. Scratch that while post above. I think I may have figured out the problem. I was just re-reading the part where I say my husband would do it if I asked. That pretty much sums up our relationship. I think I’m testing here. I’m waiting for him to push back. My husband is great and will do pretty much WHATEVER I ask. This is the problem. I think I’m using sex as an issue to get him to man it up elsewhere. Maybe I don’t want him to half- hard dick me. I just want him to say ” not tonight. I let u know when u deserve it” ( or something like that) that would be hot. Holy shit Athol ur a genius. LMFAO. U don’t even know how many blogs and sites I’ve been to trying to figure out what I’m doing wrong and what to do about it and sex wasn’t even the real issue in the first place. So next step is buy book-leave it on nightstand
Can you make this a post? I think it woild really help other women I’m my same situation. I literally just had an epiphany above. I knew something was off I just didn’t know what it was let alone how to articulate it. My husband is too beta for me. I just didn’t realize it. So I used this issue because I genuinely thought this was the problem. It is not. For me one of the most alpha traits i can think of it a caveman like throw me down, pull my hair and smack my ass move. But what I’m really wanting is just a little more alpha in general. It’s not the sex. It was just the easiest fix for the problem that I didn’t even know was there. If my dh threw in a few of the moves I said above it would probly quench my alpha thirst and things would roll more smoothly. But just the same if he alpha’d up elsewhere i bet I would perfectly fine with the sex were having now. My dh is a stay at home dad and I work. I tend to take the leadership role out of default. I DON’T WANT it! I don’t want my husband to do whatever I say. I don’t want my husband to do things just to appease me. I want him to say what he wants and be firm about it. I don’t want all the power it’s exausting. I would rather be the one at home but it just didn’t play out that way. Ok. Sorry for the multiple comments. I’ll go shut my mouth n read now
See what I did there?
No, me neither.
Being the Captain is more work and responsiblity than being the First Officer.
There are no shortcuts to family leadership.
Okay yeah, it is a little too much. Nothing in a marriage is 100% one persons fault and not the others.
But I do think if you want to play the “I’m the Captain” card, you accept both the benefits and the responsiblities that come with it.
“What is your relationship with the link to Taken In Hand on your blog? Is this something you support? Would you be willing to privately disclose if this is, in fact, the nature of your relationship with Jennifer? Or have you been open about it and I missed it? (No, silly, I haven’t been able to read *every* post. Not just yet!)”
This is a more complicated question than you know. For those with the book, I’m going to connect the dots between The Primer Chapters 9 (Captain and First Officer), 11 (Behavior Modification) and 24 (Rough Stuff).
Taken In Hand was one of the places that I read heavily and first learned that many women enjoy…
Le Cygne Gris (Simon Grey) – The Primer is, in a word, perfect.
Given the book’s general usefulness, I would unhesitatingly recommend it to any and every married man. If your marriage sucks, this book may be key to turning it around. If your marriage is great, this book can help you maintain course. And if you are planning or otherwise wanting to get married at some point in the future, read this book first; it will provide a solid foundation upon which to build your future relationship. If you’ve already perused the blog and used the principles contained therein to fix your relationship, buy this book as a way to say thank you.
Antigone Amplified – Some of it is deep, some of it explores the dark side, but it’s always perceptive and practical. It’s an awesome read as a text- very wise, funny but humane to the core.
“The distinguishing feature of Athol’s book and blog, is his inherent relatability to men with Nice Guy syndrome. There are a lot of men in the world who are instantly repelled by the teachings of the Roissysphere, even though they desperately need its advice. Athol Kay is the ambassador who is distilling those truths into a medium that can be digested, even by men still firmly ensconced in the matrix. His most remarkable achievement is that he has somehow done so without watering them down with pretty lies.
For many of my readers, the idea of marriage ranges from unthinkable to unlikely. But we are a rare minority in a world full of men and families who will be destroyed by their failure to implement the ideas in MMSL. I think Athol’s book is going to save thousands from the fate that my family suffered. I suggest you search your life for people you care about, and add their names to that list.”
I’ve had many excellent reviews of The Primer, and I am grateful for all of them, but Frost’s is the one I actually like the most so far. I think he understood my intent and level of difficulty involved the best. Though his estimation of my intent for saved marriages is off by several decimal places.
I’m 41. I have 29 more editions of The Primer to go before I retire.
Husband losing his wife to another man…
This little snippet upset me.
They have had sex, a lot. She says she likes how he is sexually aggressive with her and enjoys being objectified by him. Admittedly, we have had some tension in this department, but I have tried becoming more agressive over these last years. We have always enjoyed our sex, but I have always been too gentle and slow I guess. I like to savor her and I have told her this. She appreciates this and enjoys the attention, but it has not been all she wants so I have tried to expand.
Most women like rough sex and being treated like sex objects – if only once in a while. If this is something she wants, and you don’t give it to her, you leave the door open to someone else offering it.
I guess what pisses me off is…