Skeletons In The Sexual History Closet

One of the things that I believe is important in choosing a wife is her having an as uncomplicated as possible sexual history. I also believe that this is important for the man too. For Jennifer and myself that mutual uncomplicated history is part of what eroticises our marriage – we get to go to bed with our first partner each night still. But we met young and got it together quickly, so we’re a little unusual in that respect. Most people have some sort of sexual history prior to their marriage.
The question is though, how much of that sexual history do you reveal to each other before you get married?The obvious concern being that if you tell your fiance something really gnarly they might just freak out and cancel the wedding.
What you tell your fiance will boil down to three categories of truthiness. (1) Reasonable approximations of the truth, (2) lies, and (3) oh shit why did I do that.
(1) Reasonable approximations of the truth would read like a sexual resume where you state your sexual relationship history. So you as a potential wife might say something like:  “From 2004 to 2007 I was with Adam, we broke up at Christmas because he wouldn’t marry me. 2008 I was just kind of a mess and didn’t see anyone apart from a three month mistake with Bill. 2009-2010 I was with Colin, but he cheated on me repeatedly so I broke it off. After that I met you!”
You don’t need to reveal the exact details of the high and low points of the sex with them. Like you cheated on Adam with his best friend for a bit in 2005 but it never got discovered. Bill was married. Colin could make you squirt.
(2) Lies.  Your actual number is 24. Roughly. Not counting just oral… so you say “I’ve had sex with five guys.” That’s Adam, Bill, Colin and two little fling things in college. Oh six… your old high school boyfriend looked you up on Facebook in 2008 and you got together again. No sparks for you, but he was really into it. “The sex was terrible.”
Having a high partner count is damaging to your value as a potential wife, so obviously you have to lie and say six. No.. actually say seven. Just leave the seventh guy as undefined because “it’s just too embarrassing”. That way if someone shows up again in the future and lets slip they had you, you can turn bright red and play the “seven card”. Excellent plan girlfriend, you owe you a margarita for thinking that one up.
(3) Oh shit why did I do that… this is stuff that will possibly be found out during the marriage, that will probably end the marriage or at the very least cause a major relationship crisis. This stuff you need to disclose before things progress further toward the altar. I say this not only because it’s the right thing to do, but because if your relationship implodes because of your lack of disclosure, that affects you.
Some possible issues to disclose…
Any history of sexual diseases. Repeat, any history. They almost all lead to potential infertility issues, especially if you have had multiple STDs in your history. After revealing this, it’s a trip to the GYN doc together to discuss the likelihood of her having children. If he wants kids and it comes out later that your uterus looks like hamburger because of the prior STDs, you can see how that would be a problem. This is need to know information.
Added to the above, any incurable sexual diseases need to be disclosed. And yes, I do need to say that because some people are just evil and don’t say it.
Sex work. Whether it’s that you did porn, stripping or prostitution, that needs to be disclosed. It will find a way to pop back into your life somehow. Far better he knows now, rather than finds out then.
Prior sexual abuse. This one is really awkward for me to talk about because I feel like I’m victimizing the victim again, but I feel I have to go there anyway. In 10-15% of the email I get from men in sexless marriages, the men are married to a woman that had been either raped or sexually abused at some point prior to him. Once married the typical pattern is that their sex life ends extremely quickly, save a few bursts of her sexual interest to become pregnant, before lapsing into nothing again. This is not what the guy signs up for. Sexual abuse and rape is not an automatic rule out of contention, but sexual abuse trauma needs to be dealt with before entering into a lifetime sexual agreement.
Prior pregnancies and their outcomes. Again it’s one of those “Does your uterus look like hamburger?” questions. Did you adopt out? Abort? Miscarriage? These events are major and are a large part of your sexual make up. He needs to know that.
In addition to these sexual history things, it’s best to disclose major non-sexual potential issues as well. Things like a criminal history, major debt, illegal alien status, mental illness all should be discussed.
So yes indeed, disclosure may well take your relationship down now, but at least it only messes you up rather than messes both of you up in the future… and if you actually love him enough to marry him… love him enough to tell him the truth.

And of course all this applies just as well to the guys disclosing the “oh shit why did I do that” stuff to their fiances too. Like you currently have someone else pregnant yada yada yada.

And for the easily offended… yes indeed I do think you should evaluate potential spouses on their ability to push a kid out or get one started. Your mom’s all agree with me too. That’s why they do that baby photo routine with anyone you bring home that they approve of. You being a healthy baby being a fabulous genetic advertisement.

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Comments

  1. Badger says:

    Shirley they'll be some drama in this comment thread.

    In my relationships, I don't really ask about diseases. Instead when I think we're ready to throw the hotdog down the hallway, I say "let's go get tested together." If she balks, I know she has something to hide. If she agrees I'm 95% sure she's clean (or at least honest about it).

    If she gives me some guff about me "not trusting her":
    1. She's right – enough apparently-decent people have lied about their sexual health to make trust but verify a good bet.
    2. She blew an opportunity to verify she's worth trusting.
    3. She'll probably pull the same kind of manipulation on me later.

  2. Anonymous says:

    I agree with Badger the "you have to lie" is a major point on the manosphere, the "slut that gave it up for free and then wants a chump that pays for it, likely to cheat and divorce…" Yeah…torches and forks, why didn't you picked something nicer for the time being…like kittens? Had you discussed how pretty kittens are together as a couple? Discuss it is important…see less controversial. ;)
    S.R.

  3. Hope says:

    I am definitely a tell-all kind of girl with every guy I've ever had sexual relations with, which is in single digits so I never felt the need to lie.

    But there are also plenty of guys who lie. It's not always the girl doing the fibbing. I got burned by an ex who lied to me for 10 years.

  4. Just Wondering says:

    If its a long term relationship then there has to be a good level of honesty though you'll never know the complete and total truth. I'm inclined to agree with VoxDay on this.
    (http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com/2011/04/never-underestimate-power-of-hamster.html)

    I do think that the issue of STDs is very important to address; this is in fact probably a bigger issue than number count since your never likely to get a truly honest answer as this post vividly illustrates in the example above. If she has something that he could catch or visa versa or if she had something that could deeply impair her ability to have children it has to absolutely come out right away. If you're looking for a spouse you can't afford to be soft-hearted.

    Now I do have a question: what about the polar opposite of the situation that is presented here, meaning what if you are an adult man in a situation where you don't have a high number count or even perhaps no number count at all? A woman will usually seek to downplay her number but should a man in his late 20s to early 30s with little to no history be honest about inexperience and lack of history (step 1) or lie (step 2)? On the one hand in this situation you have the plus of no STDs or major ex-relationship baggage but on the other hand for a man to reach that point in his life in this kind of situation is very deeply embarrassing. What do you suggest?

  5. Viliam Búr says:

    should a man in his late 20s to early 30s with little to no history be honest about inexperience and lack of history (step 1) or lie (step 2)?

    I would recommend to tell the truth. But it is not only what you say, it is also how you say it. Tell it like an alpha: Your lack of history was your choice.

  6. Anonymous says:

    Now I do have a question: what about the polar opposite of the situation that is presented here, meaning what if you are an adult man in a situation where you don't have a high number count or even perhaps no number count at all? A woman will usually seek to downplay her number but should a man in his late 20s to early 30s with little to no history be honest about inexperience and lack of history (step 1) or lie (step 2)? On the one hand in this situation you have the plus of no STDs or major ex-relationship baggage but on the other hand for a man to reach that point in his life in this kind of situation is very deeply embarrassing. What do you suggest?

    A man in this situation should lie. He should lie through his teeth. A man in that situation gets no benefit from telling the truth unless the woman he is with is also a total virgin. (And such women do not exist unless he's dating 18 year olds and they're scarce even then.)

    Some will ask, "what if she catches you lying?" Her reaction won't be any worse than if you told the truth so lying is the best option for a man in this case. If you tell her the truth, she will think you're gay (if you're lucky) or a pedophile or have some form of incurable mental illness. Telling the truth is a guaranteed path to a lifetime of loneliness.

    I recommend making up past relationships with complete histories. Imagine the women you were with. Give them complete personalities and histories. Go over their histories, personalities, and the history of your "relationship" with them that you have made up over and over again in your mind. That way your lies will be natural.

    The most important thing you can do is try and avoid needing to lie in the first place. Don't answer questions that haven't been asked. Just answer questions as they have been asked and no more. Don't volunteer information for no reason. Keep your lying to a minimum. However, you will still need to lie plenty in spite of this.

    Remember that no woman understands what its like to be a man with little no relationship/sexual experience. You will get no sympathy from a woman about this. If you're not willing to lie you might as well join a monastery.

  7. Candice says:

    I have a preference for men with low sexual partner number and don't care about their level of experience, as long as they are compatible, have a healthy libido and are willing to experiment and make things work. At my age, a count of zero is highly unlikely, but I'd assess the man on himself, not some stereotype I might attach to lack of experience. Lying, however, would be a deal breaker.

  8. Athol Kay says:

    In general lying creates an emotional barrier that prevents you from fully connecting sexually to the other person.

    This post should at least put into your mind some questions you should be asking before tying the knot.

  9. Anonymous says:

    I once dumped a guy I really liked because he had had too many sexual partners in total, and waaaaay too many one night stands. It killed my desire, because I kept worrying about diseases, the fact that he couldn't seem to maintain a relationship, the fact that none of the women seemed to come back for more, would he stay faithful…

    The fact that I had to hear about the worst excesses from one of the skanks he…ugh…double teamed with his best friend was – well, it didn't help.

    Maybe it's my culture, but I have no problem with a man being a virgin, no matter what the age, in answer to Just Wondering. I'd just prefer it to be out of some principle rather than a feeling that it's because no one wanted him, but that could be solved by being reasonably attractive and successful.

    If you really feel the need to explain it (might be best to follow the maxim "Never explain. Never Apologise" here), a nice way to do so and frame it as principles, would be to say that you want to marry a woman with as few sexual partners as possible, but you want to return the favour by doing the same for her.

    Most women don't mind the desire for few previous sexual partners. It's the double standards that get to us.

    In answer to the Anonymous who advises lying: what you're suggesting is relationship suicide. It's one thing to lie about numbers, but it's infinitely worse if he has been lying about entire case histories.

    We can deal with virgins, as long as he's not completely undesirable, but the strain of remembering all the lies will take its toll on you and lying about histories will be unforgivable to her. Do. Not. Do. It.

  10. Thag Jones says:

    I can't believe you used the word "truthiness" seriously.

    You don't need to reveal the exact details of the high and low points of the sex with them. Like you cheated on Adam with his best friend for a bit in 2005 but it never got discovered. Bill was married. Colin could make you squirt.

    Wow, really? Maybe not the last one, but the first two details are pretty significant. This is bad advice except for helping out a cheater and an adulteress. If someone is truly sorry for things like this, she (or he) shouldn't need to hide the truth.

  11. Anonymous says:

    I think sexual needs that are a bit non-mainstream merit disclosure, too, if they are significant. Someone who has a more "vanilla" type sexuality should not be roped into a relationship with someone who has a more fetish-oriented sexuality, because this will often lead to problems down the road. Sometimes the fetish-oriented partner won't disclose this because they think it isn't significant, or they are ashamed of it or worried it will scare the other person away (which it may), but it's better to disclose and see where the chips fall than have a fundamental incompatibility in the sexual area. Yes, people should be "open-minded" to some degree about their partner's needs, but I don't think that means everyone must be accepting of fetish-type sexuality in their own bedroom.

  12. Thag Jones says:

    P.S. I know people can change, but even so, the person considering marriage has the right to make a decision based on having all the relevant information, not being tricked into marrying someone through being deceived. Product not as advertised!

  13. Thag Jones says:

    Anon 9:56, excellent point. It pays to be honest even if it means the end of a particular relationship.

  14. Thag Jones says:

    Don't buy a house from this guy….

    "It was just re-insulated [in 1942] and the wiring is all up to date [by 3rd world standards] and installed by licensed professionals [carnies in the off-season]…"

    After all, it's OK to leave out pertinent information. ;)

  15. Encourager says:

    For ladies – please don't harm yourself and do things that you would not want to admit to your future husband. I agree with Athol that this creates a barrier with your spouse right from the start.

  16. Anonymous says:

    For an inexperienced man telling the truth is a guaranteed path to never being able to connect sexually with any woman at all. I agree with the first anonymous who said this. I will take not being able to fully connect sexually with a woman over not at all. Something is better than nothing.

    Don't forget that an inexperienced man admitting his inexperienced is still lying if he says it was his choice in an attempt to salvage the situation. Inexperienced men have only one option and that is to lie.

  17. Ari says:

    You seem to have forgot one:

    Any prior same-sex experiences.

    Not politically correct, but extremely relevant.

  18. Anonymous says:

    My one thought is, if you think the relationship has any potential at all, be honest.

    My wife and I met at a Christian college and both grew up in church-going homes. In our circles, even a moderate sexual history was a bit taboo.

    I knew (through mutual friends) when we started dating she had had a sexual relationship with a high school boyfriend, and that wasn't a big issue with me. After we got engaged, we had a little chat about her ex. No big deal, but we both knew it was an issue we needed to get out of the way. She had another college BF that I thought she might have slept with, and I specifically asked her about him. Again, not a huge deal, but something to get out of the way. She hadn't slept with him.

    Fast forward 4 years into our marriage. We're laying in bed one morning chatting and somehow the issue of exes comes up. I say, "now you only slept with X, right?" Awkward silence. Sinking feeling in my stomach.

    A very difficult conversation ensued wherein she came clean to having had sex with two other guys in college. She tried to play it off like she thought I knew, but she obviously purposefully chose not to disclose during the conversation prior to marriage.

    The marriage was never in any danger, but it was quite a kick in the ass from my standpoint.

    Be honest. Especially if you are directly asked.

  19. Athol Kay says:

    I'm glad we're getting the idea about asking the big questions.

    You should always expect truthiness though.

  20. pdwalker says:

    Great advice.

  21. Thag Jones says:

    You're advising people to lie, unless this is some kind of dyslexic joke. And while I don't necessarily expect someone to tell me all the gory details of their past (nor would I want them to really), I do expect honesty as that's what I give. If that's an unreasonable expectation, then I guess most people are just fucked.

    How advising deceit and dishonesty passes for "great advice" I'll never know. This isn't going to help anyone have a good marriage; it will only help an unscrupulous slut trick someone into a shitty situation. Maybe you're trying to be funny, in which case you failed at that too.

  22. Badger says:

    "the fact that none of the women seemed to come back for more,"

    I had never thought of it this way – usually quick sexual access is seen as a sign of virility and game, but something's definitely wrong if women aren't coming for a second helping.

  23. Athol Kay says:

    Thag – you don't get it. I'm saying lying is routine in relationships, but that some lies are just too big to get away with. So that it's actually in the liars best interest not to lie…

    …even if it means the end of their relationship.

  24. Thag Jones says:

    Bit of a convoluted way to say that then. You quite clearly said that it's OK to leave out that you cheated on someone and had sex with someone else's husband a bunch. Just because you can get away with "smaller" lies (although these don't seem very small to me) doesn't mean it's OK to lie to someone you're supposed to love.

    Then you follow that with a bit about lying about the number of partners you've had that seems like it might be tongue in cheek, but since the preceding part didn't come across that way it's hard to tell.

    Is all that not supposed to be serious then?

  25. Athol Kay says:

    This may help.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness

    What you tell your fiance will boil down to three categories of truthiness. (1) Reasonable approximations of the truth, (2) lies, and (3) oh shit why did I do that.

    Women routinely lie their ass off to men about their sexual history when a potential marriage is in the offering. It's not really a surprise to any of the male readers as you may have noted.

    I could just run 10-15 examples of that, but it would get old and I'd just come across as hating women.

  26. Thag Jones says:

    My point though is that you seem to be encouraging it. I guess I can only speak for myself, but I have never lied about my past to relationship potentials. I can't stand lies, I don't enjoy telling lies and I'd rather just lay my cards on the table and say "take it or leave it" and I would encourage others to do the same – not necessarily on the first date or anything, but looooong before marriage is ever brought up.

  27. Athol Kay says:

    Most women will lie Thag. All the men reading got that instantly.

  28. Thag Jones says:

    There's a difference between "most women will lie" and "go ahead and lie." You still haven't said if this is indeed what you are saying or not. This isn't a man-woman miscommunication; it's that you appear to be saying it's OK to leave out some pretty big clues of character here and you still haven't said if this is what you are actually saying.

  29. pdwalker says:

    Thag,

    Do you mean to claim you've never lied by omission? That you've actually told every partner you've ever had every single thing about past relationships in great gory detail? and that they, in turn, told you every explicit detail of every dalliance they've ever had?

    Either you've never had more than one partner, or I'm calling bullshit.

    Sometimes little white lies are necessary in human relationships. There are difference between things like "I'm a serial philanderer" vs "I slipped up once".

    I read Athol's advice as being the "lie of omission" – keeping the little things that aren't really that important that can irrevocably destroy a relationship before it has a chance to get started, unless directly asked.

    It's good advice, and I stand by my comment.

    Thag, everyone lies. Everyone. As a culture, we think that is bad, and rightly so, but there are always circumstances where not only is it done, but it is necessary for it to be done. "Does this dress make my ass look fat?"

    Maybe you and your significant other are among that miraculously small group that has never lied, fibbed, or omitted the full truth ever. If so, my hat's off to you, but you'll have to understand that based on a lifetimes experience with humanity, I find the chances of that vanishingly remote.

  30. Anonymous says:

    "There's a difference between "most women will lie" and "go ahead and lie." You still haven't said if this is indeed what you are saying or not"

    Thag makes a good point, Athol.

    Kathy

  31. Thag Jones says:

    Of course someone has to be facetious. No, I haven't told every gory detail, but I haven't left things out like "I slept with a married man, kissed a girl or two, had unprotected sex with a fling…." These things do matter. What I would leave out are things like "one time, when I was blowing so-and-so, he came so hard it came out muh nose yo!"

    See the difference as far as significance? I stand by my comments that telling people it's OK to deliberately mislead someone is wrong. Don't do things you don't want to admit to later – you're only screwing yourself. And yeah, I've been lied to plenty and I hate it. Do unto others and all that.

  32. Anonymous says:

    keeping the little things that aren't really that important that can irrevocably destroy a relationship before it has a chance to get started, unless directly asked

    Seems contradictory to me, to be honest. If the information is that incendiary, it should be disclosed at an appropriate time (and that time is well before either party gets emotionally "dug in"). I really, really disagree that things which would turn someone away are "not really that important" — that's just a contradictory statement right there.

    It's true that people do lie all the time. It's one of the great human failings. I do think that lying about relationship history is a very big deal and should not be encouraged in any form. You're basically obscuring the most relevant part of yourself for that context — how you've managed, or not, relationships in the past. It's like submitting a CV ang lying about your job history or just omitting it on the basis of saying "oh, that's in the past, what's important is the person you see in front of you". Yep. Try that in a job interview.

  33. Thag Jones says:

    I think it's often not the things themselves so much as the fact that the person has been found to be deceptive. Why hide "small things" if they are so small? Sometimes you'll make it seem like there's something to hide when there isn't. Those with nothing to hide hide nothing.

    Which is why it's best to just be honest – and especially if things might be incendiary. What you call unimportant might be quite important to the other person. "Yeah, I used to use prostitutes regularly, but I don't any more so it doesn't matter." Sure.

  34. Anonymous says:

    "Let's not tell each other our sad stories." That's from some movie, and a great way to diffuse those conversations. I agree, Thag, that the dishonesty is worse than the deeds. But if you have some one-time bad deeds (such as, "I once had sex with a bicycle, didn't like it, never want to do it again") that you don't want to reveal, I don't think it's particularly helpful to force that conversation. What you learned is more important than what you did.

    My wife and I chose this path. Does she have some scary skeletons that she's trying to hide? Most likely. I wouldn't want every detail about me exposed either. But the fact that we avoided the drawn-out sexual history *deliberately*, makes me feel better about this than any other path could have (apart from having superpowers, anyway).
    Big questions about past character were revealed (neither of us has ever cheated, both been cheated on, both had periods of high partner count), and current character was 100% on the table (we don't want open marriage, do want light bondage, etc.) But the reason I believe these conversations is that they weren't colored by the past, where perhaps things were tried and discarded.

    Given no STD's, the high partner count doesn't bother me because it's part of my alpha frame. I'm the best, and she knows it.

    The reason for NOT disclosing all that nonsense is that once something is learned, it can't be unlearned. I don't WANT to dwell on all the details of who, what, when, where, what things were tried and discarded (I guarantee you'll never look at bicycles the same again). I want to recapture some of the purity of youth. When we are all old, we all have some baggage we'd rather bury in the yard.

  35. paige says:

    FWIW I once dated a guy who was a 25 year old virgin (and I was not a virgin).

    If male virginity/low-experience is a deal breaker for a woman then that is your first hint that she either isn't compatible or isn't LTR material.

  36. Thag Jones says:

    Anon 11:07, I agree with that. As you said, you revealed the important stuff and agreed to keep it minimal. I didn't mean to imply everyone should lay themselves completely bare, just that it doesn't pay to lie about the sorts of things that might change someone's opinion of you. If you're already infatuated with someone there isn't likely to be anything so heinous it would put them off anyway.

    I dated a virgin and married an almost-virgin before when I wasn't one too and it wasn't an issue for me. Things not working out had nothing to do with their virginal state when I met them.

  37. Anonymous says:

    @JustWondering

    Lie if it makes you feel more confident, but making up entire relationships with names and histories is just stupid. If you make up a years-long girlfriend or anything close to that and a girl finds out you're lying not only will she feel deceived, but she will probably label you psycho or creepy.

    Tell her you lost your virginity in college to a friend or crush and had a few casual dating things after that, which in my experience is what happens to quite a few guys. Very believable and it won't have to be talked about every now and then the way a "serious girlfriend" would.

    Girls are pretty perceptive. If you've gotten to know someone well enough to be talking about your sexual experience, she's probably already wondered about it, guessed pretty close to the truth, and likes you anyway.

  38. Anonymous says:

    I think alot of women do the whole "party, have fun, sleep around, etc…" thing in their 20's with the plan to settle down and find the right guy in a few years. but what they dont understand is that men view that everything you do, every guy, every random college threesome is a part of you. I am not marrying the girl that let half the Dallas Cowboys defense run a train on her… you know what I mean? if I am engaged to a girl and I find out that, one time, she snorted coke of a guys d*ck and then sucked it in a night club bathroom five minutes after she met him… then thats probably a wrap for us… shes no longer "mother of my children" quality. they say you are what you eat, but I think you are what you f*ck… Women, if you live half your life doing things that you will have to hide from the man you love one day…then why are you doing them? actively seeking out things to do that you will be guaranteed to be ashamed of, in the future, doesnt make sense to me.

  39. Anonymous says:

    Telling a woman you're a virgin or inexperienced is a guaranteed way to get her to label you pscho or creepy. It's also guaranteed way for everyone you know to find out you're a virgin since she will gossip your inexperience to everyone. I know this is true because I have seen women do this.

  40. hans says:

    @ above.
    GREAT! Nothing better to happen to you. It´s a great show of character of the females involved.

    If they´re part of the herd talking you down they´re not in your league, plain and simple. And you better not try to get the herd of sluts to like you.

    The slight envy born disdain/pity will turn into irrational hate of the "lowly beta chump".

  41. Anonymous says:

    I'm actually going to chime in here and say, from personal experience, that full disclosure is required. The key take-away being that it will also give you a better idea of true compatibility and outlook on things.
    In my specific case, I had sex with a couple of my cousins back when we were all in the sexual experimentation phase of life. That was many years ago and I never thought about it again. (See bicycle sex above. :)
    However, many years later, my wife is on a tear about how I'm not perfect, (shit test?), and I get pissed back and unload every thing I've ever done in my entire life that might not meet her standards of perfection. She was okay with almost all of it, even mostly okay with trying to have sex with a dog, (didn't happen, more bicycle), but she absolutely freaked about the cousin thing, (white as a sheet, eyes like saucers, couldn't talk for about a minute then screamed non-stop for about 5 minutes), and pretty much never recovered – I believe now that it was the beginning of the end of our marriage.
    In the years following that blowout it became gradually more apparent that she likely was abused as a child and has a host of deep-seated issues which she does a good job of hiding 99% of the time.
    Summary – if I had thought to bring up a complete history of my own sexual pecadillos *before* getting married and having kids I would have seen that over-the-top response up front and realized there were some problems.
    So guys and gals, if you're in it for reals, let it ALL hang out and see whether your prospective life partner chuckles or runs, (and vice versa :) .

  42. VI says:

    I never lie about my partner count. If I found out a woman lied about hers, even after years of being together, I'd drop her.

  43. Anonymous says:

    I think that as you get older, the partner count becomes less important. When I started dating the lady who would become my 2nd wife, I took a "Don't ask, Don't tell" approach. I knew she had 2 ex-husbands and had dated a lot, but didn't push for her "number." After 15 years together (10 married), I can do the math of at least a dozen other guys besides her exes. My guess is that her actual "number" is between 20 and 25, probably more.

    It doesn't matter to me. I tend to look at it like the Apollo astronauts who went to the moon….unless you are Neil Armstrong, what does it matter whether you are Buzz Aldrin or Harrison Schmidt???

  44. Anonymous says:

    The point of dating is to find out what works for you. To some past history is a make or break on the check list, liars need to face the consequences.

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