You’d Really Leave Jennifer?

Random questions…
Are you saying you would leave Jennifer if she didn’t orgasm from your tongue/hands/dick?  What if Jennifer were a surgeon working 12 hour days 6 days a week and she said her intense work schedule kills her libido?  You would leave her?
If Jennifer were a 12 hour day 6 days a week person, that would be something she was actively choosing. Which means choosing not to be sexually available to me. Leave? Quite possibly. But I might just cheat in that situation as well. I’d get so lonely and horny I couldn’t take it. Just being honest.
If it was something she wasn’t choosing, I would struggle through as long as I could. Years most likely, but I have my limits. Call me a fragile male ego, but I need to see a woman respond to me to be happy. The nights where she declines orgasm almost without exception fall into the bottom 25% of quality of sexual experiences together. I still take the cookie of course, but it’s just not going to make the highlight reel.
I’m pretty much focused on keeping the containment fields up so I concentrate on sex with just Jennifer. It’s hard sometimes.  There’s also a public safety concern as well, if I lost Jennifer the resultant shockwave would cause all the women in a 300 yard radius to become pregnant.
I do love her.
I had thought about adding regarding vasectomy, that should I be stuck on a desert island with a beautiful woman… I’m not sure I could be trusted with a gun that shoots blanks! :)
OMG Seriously. I’d start shooting everyone…
Jennifer and I have talked about it actually. I’m just a force of nature and I know I would fold.
When I came to see Dad before he died last year we debated whether to just send me, or us, or all four of us…
…I was just like… “um… prostitution is legal in New Zealand.”  :-/
So we all came. I probably wouldn’t have actually used one, but I would have spent 87.3% of my total mental energy on not using one. Which isn’t much of a vacation really.
It must have been quite a decision to unveil yours and Jennifer’s sex life in detail.  Somebody needs to, but the reluctance to go first is pretty basic.
There’s an element of difficulty about revealing our sex life, but it’s not too crazy really. We’ve made some missteps over the years, but not terrible failures, so there’s not really major skeletons in the closet to worry about.
As it turns out though, it’s not actually the skeletons in your closet that matter. In fact I think they are actually something comforting for people to latch onto and bitch about and propel you to greater fame. Look at Eliot Spitzer – he’s got a talk show now which is by all accounts a more fun job and better paid than being governor of New York.
What seems to happen is people project onto you their fears and anger about sex and react to that. So there’s not too much way to counter that.
Athol thank you for saving my marriage and getting me laid again. Everything was a complete shambles before you came along and put me straight. I cannot thank you enough for everything you have done. Can I take a minute to explain how God has a wonderful plan for your life?
I’m frightened that I might have given you the ability to successfully breed.
Athol I know you are an atheist now, but you have a Christian background and so much of what you write about is Biblical. You just say it with more courage than the feminized church does. You’re clearly helping people and doing God’s Work. I know you’ve said you were angry for a long time about church etc. If you ever want to talk or debate things I’d love to do that with you.
Thank you, I do appreciate your interest and your good intentions for me. I take the whole “God’s Work” thing as a sincere compliment. Truly. I am quite flattered by it.
However in terms of any religion, I simply don’t care anymore or have time to debate it. I’ve basically decided that this MMSL project is going to be my life’s work, and that’s about it. My only concern with religious belief, or lack thereof, is whether that helps or hinders my goal of saving marriages and making people have more enjoyable sexual lives together. I work with everyone.
I am just done with thinking, and am a man of action. I no longer have any interest in what comes out of most peoples mouths, the only real message of interest to me is what they do. I thought quite heavily for the first half of my life and I intend to be far more active for the second half of my life.
human being is just lazy and contributes nothing. Be a human doing. God tires of your prayers, nagging is not a spiritual gift. I thought faith was a verb… an action… it’s funny how shit falls into place when you start actively working on something. How many miracles do you think you need, before you do what you’re supposed to do?
Dammit, I’m preaching.
 

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Comments

  1. Anonymous says:

    What!? You can't enjoy a visit to a country where prostitution is legal because it would be so distracting? I'm starting to rethink the whole marriage thing. Turns out is IS really hard to override biology. There is a reason all those old Bible kings had tons of wives…and they STILL had issues (think David and Bathsheba).

  2. Anonymous says:

    What!? You can't enjoy a visit to a country where prostitution is legal because it would be so distracting?

    Anon, I think the key issue there is that he thought about visiting NZ without his wife. With no sexual outlet, his high sex drive and legalized prostitution, it would've taken him a great deal of willpower (87.3% apparently) to stay on the Jennifer-only path.

    C.

  3. Anonymous says:

    Heh I might be odd but I totally love that you are brutally honest with Jennifer and yourself and take precautions to assure that your body doesn't does anything stupid.
    I mean keeping oneself faithful when no one tempts you is good and all that, but when everyone does it, is a step on sainthood!
    My hat off to you Athol. :)
    And I'm a woman…;)

  4. Anonymous says:

    I'm sorry, but is it seriously that difficult to restrict yourself to masturbation for a little while? I have a pretty high sex drive and I'm certain I could abstain from anything but wanking in a situation like that. Is self-restraint really that unreasonable to expect?

  5. Anonymous says:

    Anons above need to get a sense of humor.

  6. Terry @ Breathing Grace says:

    Dammit, I'm preaching.

    Yeah, you are, lol. Old habits die hard?

    It just occurred to me that nearly everyone who comments here now does so anonymously. You must have really blown up (more than I realized) and I should probably return to lurker status.

  7. Why Have I Not Known About This Before Now says:

    I am a huge fan of your blog and book. However, you comments about not being able to visit New Zealand alone without being tempted by prostitution just blows my mind. This is no leisure trip…it is a trip to visit your dying father. I would like to think that my husband could be trusted to travel to family and not be tempted to go hump the first thing that he sees when he should be spending precious moments with his dying family member. It is embarrassing to think that Jennifer was arm twisted into going by the threat (comment) of you do realize prostitution is legal there, right?

    Outside of that I am disapponinted because this blog has always given me hop in my marriage but comments like that leave my stomach churning. My husband is AD military and currently deployed to Afghanistan. He reads your blog and loves it (as do I). We know that we are going to be apart for a year and I don't want to think or him to think that his biology is something he cannot override. There are plenty of women over there…some in his unit that he has "access" to. I would hate to think that just because I cannot meet his biological needs at this point (other than sending pictures) that he will try to justify an affair to me.

    I usually agree with you 100% Athol….but you are getting much more aggressively, Give it up at my every whim or I am dumping your ass on the way up. And it is hard to believe the true love for Jennifer that you speak of when in hte next breath you say, If I lost her, I would impregnate all women in a 300 yard radius.

  8. Anonymous says:

    "You'd better accompany me, or else I'll be so consumed with the desire to bang a hooker I'll either go for it or be unable to focus on my dying father." Really?

    Athol, you lost me on this one. I also thought of your readers with spouses who are deployed or who travel for a living. You'll probably say that not all men have your sex drive, but it doesn't make it acceptable for you either, especially when Jennifer is as devoted as you say. This sullies all the wonderful things you have said about her and actually makes me queasy.

    My heart would be broken, and my trust in him demolished, if my husband ever implied a warning like this. Fidelity that is dependent on easy and perfectly uninterrupted access is no virtue. I know that you abstained while Jennifer was ill; how would this have been different?

    I think posts like these are going to alienate the mainstream readers you're hoping to attract. Why would women want their husbands to follow you now?

  9. Anonymous says:

    Why can't people understand that monogamy is not natural? Athol has emphasized this many times. He happens to have a very high sex drive and was simply being honest. The truth is ugly and painful folks so please take your rose colored glasses off and face the fact that for some people sex is equal to food and water.
    I am a high sex drive woman and once again, I agree with Athol 100%.
    What would you rather hear: Honey, I fucked a woman in NZ or: Honey, I want to fuck YOU in NZ.

    Get real people, sex is a primal need, we are all animals. Don't believe me? Next time you find yourself in the doggy position sweating and grunting tell me you're not an animal.

    Katherine

  10. WTF? says:

    Saint my ass!

    Gandhi had taken a break from his father's ill bedside to have sex with his wife and during that time the man died. He never got over that guilt, carrying it with him into old age, and it was the catalyst for him to accept voluntary celibacy.

    And here we have Athol, a middle-aged American man who describes a trip to see his dying father one last time as a "vacation".

    Bizarro World.

  11. Jennifer, AKA The Wife says:

    The wife weighs in…okey dokey, so describing the trip to NZ as a "vacation" was not meant to imply all fun times and parties…we took a family trip to see Dad when he was still well enough to enjoy spending time with his grandkids, and yes, we did call it a vacation to the kids- there was enough stress and anguish without coming into it with the "we are going to watch him die" attitude, so we chose to take the "we are going to spend quality time together and make memories" attitude.

    And you'll notice that he didn't threaten "If you don't come with me I'm sleeping with a prostitute." He thought about the fact that he would be half a world away from his wife (and thus a part of his emotional/sexual grounding mechanism) at a time when he was the most stressed and upset he's probably ever been, and that he was afraid he'd do something stupid. I would much rather he said that to me straight out than think it/do it without telling me. Not that it didn't make me uncomfortable to think about, but that's marriage- sometimes uncomfortable but always worth sticking up for. It also gave me an opportunity to push back on him with an "oh no, I don't think so" and realize how important it was, for many reasons, that we travel as a family.

  12. Jennifer, AKA The Wife says:

    Oh yes, and as for the part where we thought about him traveling to NZ by himself…have you seen the price of a plane ticket from the East Coast of the US to NZ? The words prohibitively expensive come to mind, so thank goodness we were able to work it all out without having to sell our firstborn (kidding…you know that, right?).

  13. Anonymous says:

    Also, it's worth pointing out that he never said that he thought it was *good* that he'd be tempted, or that he *wanted* to do it. In fact, I think the implication was the exact opposite — it's *not* something he wanted, and it would in fact be rather bad for their relationship. And at the same time, he's being honest about himself and his limitations/weaknesses.

  14. Rebekah says:

    "My heart would be broken, and my trust in him demolished, if my husband ever implied a warning like this. Fidelity that is dependent on easy and perfectly uninterrupted access is no virtue. I know that you abstained while Jennifer was ill; how would this have been different?

    I think posts like these are going to alienate the mainstream readers you're hoping to attract. Why would women want their husbands to follow you now?"

    It wasn't a warning! It was a factual statement. One that would probably freak most women out, because heaven forbid your husband be remotely interested in other women after he marries you!! It was a simple honest statement.

    And most of you seem to be skipping over this:

    "I probably wouldn't have actually used one, but I would have spent 87.3% of my total mental energy on not using one. Which isn't much of a vacation really."

    Which Jennifer already addressed above, I now see, but is it so hard to believe that if she hadn't been there that his mind would have been elsewhere? Sex has been found to be very comforting in stressful situations you know!

  15. elhaf says:

    Geez, people, get over a joke. He was clearly teasing with dominance and a cocky grin, implying that there was opportunity out there for him. A woman doesn't want her man to cheat, but she doesn't want a man who is unable to cheat, either. Faithful by default, I don't think so. Here's a good Psychology Today article about dominance and submission, for some fun reading.
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/billion-wicked-thoughts/201104/why-feminism-is-the-anti-viagra

  16. elhaf says:

    Oh, and why is the article I linked to titled "why feminism is the anti-viagra"? Also, why did Athol come out and say that comment about prostitution? Same reason – it drives traffic.

    Anyway, why can't Athol be all sweet all the time and tell men to do laundry? Oh, right, that doesn't work. It has to be balanced. Alpha and Beta. Do you people pay attention?

  17. Anonymous says:

    Average age of puberty in males is around 14. Athol got married at 24, which is actually younger than most males marry. Ten years = a hell of a lot of self control. This might be an interesting topic to explore, not just the personal aspect of his decade of celibacy but how young men in general can handle having to wait on sex for what amounts to years (also would apply to long military deployments).

  18. Anonymous says:

    @2:55
    monogamy is COMPLETELY natural… societal conditioning aside. there is no such thing as human nature. that is the one thing that separates us from animals… we can think and decided what we want to do. everything we do is a choice… not one single thought or action is pre-determined. the only reason people say that humans are not monogamous is because love is fleeting.
    you could take the most polyamourous woman in the world… and if she falls in love with a man… then she ONLY thinks of that man and that man only. no other man is on her mind…until for some reason (maybe years later) that love subsides. And as for cheating… most cheating is just going from monogamy A to monogamy B… you think that the cheating woman or man has needs for more then one person in that situation. but really, the primary and cheating relationships are completely different. married people in affairs are just in 2 monogamous relationships at the same time. most people leave their relationship for another relationship… they dont leave for a pack of f*ck buddies. how can you say that humans are not naturally monogamous when most (overwhelming majority, i dont mean 51% i mean like 95%) humans are monogamous every second of their lives… it just might not be the same person the whole time. monogamy is just as real and primal a need for humans as anything else is including sex.

  19. WTF? says:

    And most of you seem to be skipping over this:

    "I probably wouldn't have actually used one, but I would have spent 87.3% of my total mental energy on not using one. Which isn't much of a vacation really."

    I didn't miss it.

    But he should have been planning to spend at least 87.3% of his total mental energy on his sick and dying father.

    But in his own words, "that isn't much of a vacatation really," now is it?

    No wonder politicians in the United States have to make "family values" a platform to run on.

  20. Athol Kay says:

    For those few that now hate me.

    You are correct, visiting Dad was no leisure trip. Getting all four of us there is essentially where ALL the money for getting proper website design, and proper book packaging went. Plus he did not die for four months after the trip, which is why the book was finished for April 2011 instead of early December 2010 as planned.

    Before we were married, Jennifer and I were long distance for three years, with me in New Zealand, and her in America. It was a horrible grueling experience broken up with a few weeks of happiness together.

    When we pushed the wedding back from July 1994 to November 1994 so Jennifer could concentrate on finishing college, I actually gave her an ultimatium. I agreed to move the wedding date, but we had to marry in November 1994 or I would break off the engagement, no more moving the finish line. I couldn't tolerate it anymore, and nor could she.

    I cannot be apart from her like that again. Plus it was the last time I would see my father and physical touch and sex is what comforts me. All in all a terrible combination.

    I had no confidence in my ability to not to screw up my marriage by going alone. I don't trust me.

    Fuck you if you don't think I greive for my father. I couldn't finish the book in time for him to read it, in part because we went to see him while there was still time to have a pleasant memory trip for the girls.

    Fuck you if you don't think Jennifer is the most important part of my life.

    Fuck you if you don't appreciate me continuing on and helping others in the face of everything that has happened to me.

    And fuck you if you have no sense of humor.

  21. Anonymous says:

    Athol and Jennifer,

    Ignore all the haters, they obviously need to get laid.

    Katherine

  22. Anonymous says:

    Even though Athol has already commented here, I'm gonna add my 2 cents.

    I too, have a pretty high sex drive, and I am a woman. A couple of decades into this marriage thing and my husband still doesn't understand how I want/need sex when I have just sprained my arm/am suffering from a 104 degree fever/ or have just lost a grandparent.

    To me the two things have nothing to do with each other, except that sex will most likely help me heal from my injury/fever/or enable me to better cope with and support the rest of the family over Grandpa's death.

    Truly, this is how it works for me. I need the sex so that I can go on functioning the way I was meant to. Without the sex, my one track mind is just…stuck on the tracks.

  23. Anonymous says:

    The funny thing Athol is that the most cliché way people end up in bed in movies/books/ads is when one of them is on great distress, usually crying and the other is there open to showing comfort…and scene!

    Whoever thinks that sex is just about pleasure doesn't know a lot about sex, is also about the comfort of holding another warm body and be lost in the moment for a few minutes, grief can be so overwhelming that your body reaction would had been to try and make the pain better, and even though you know Jennifer is the one anointed to do that, cheating is usually a thing of letting your guard down and realizing what you did seconds after the act no before.

    So I echo your FUCK YOU for people that don't get that you acted this way exactly because you know the nature of sex and you needed Jennifer there or your body could trick you into thinking that that nice lady on the street is a Jennifer of her own right.

    S.R.

  24. Anonymous says:

    I think people are just trying to understand. I don't perceive any haters on this thread. Some people want to be left alone when dealing with grief or illness or injury, others want attention but not physical touch necessarily. What S.R. says above makes sense to me. Some people need to be held while going through bodily grief reaction and it is not really about sex. Maybe because this is , as has been stated before, a "one-issue" blog, everything is brought back around to sex, even though in "real" life, it is so much more and other than that. I just wanted to say my piece and now I will go f*** off.

  25. Anonymous says:

    Wow, I can see why Jennifer doesn't get into any arguments with you, Athol. Clearly, it would get her nowhere, except a big F-off if you don't know I'm perfect.
    I am reading your book now, and I daresay if the tables on this situation were flipped, and a wife said that she would need male company while she left the husband behind (for financial reasons) you would call this a major fitness test and say dump the slut. Because all women are pretty interchangeable aren't they?
    I dare you to be single and try to impregnate those 300 women you talk about. You might just not take Jennifer and her accept almost anything personality for granted anymore, when you start knocking on doors and finding out that all those women you thought would be so easy actually have a mind of their own – and probably would be more repelled by your chauvanistic ways than you think.
    I love your book – don't get me wrong. It's basic premise is awesome. But, I would urge that you have to be careful in talking about the quirks of your specific marital situation in the context of a general primer/blog for married men.
    And, based on my own personal experience as a 'married once as a virgin, married a second time after growing up some', that if you had some time as a 30s/40s- something single man, your perspective would be vastly different regarding women in general as well as Jennifer…and be more cautious about the fitness tests you throw HER way.

  26. Athol Kay says:

    Anon 9:25 I said I would fold and fail without her.

    I've spent most of the night crying about dad. Please leave me alone.

  27. Pode says:

    I swear I'm starting to sympathise with Lucifer. Firstborn of all creation and he's expected to yield pride of place to the likes of you simpering idiots who are so fucking delusional you think a man accepting his weaknesses and avoiding temptation makes him a BAD example. Go die in a fire, slowly.
    Athol, I'm sorry, man, about your dad, about him not seeing the book. For what it's worth, he seems to have left a pretty good son as legacy.

  28. elhaf says:

    Damn it I hate when the internet makes me cry.

  29. Tinderbox says:

    Bringing your ideas to a wider audience via the book and recent interviews is in some ways like starting from scratch, isn't it? You're having to explain and justify in 60-second soundbites what you've been working out over years and hundreds of pages of writing and discussion in this blog. That work speaks for itself for those who are truly interested in learning more and not just in anonymously criticizing behind the Internet.

    I wouldn't worry too much about trying to defend against drive-by snipers and people who are assuming they know your psychology and history based only on the "Sex 5000 Times" headline that media are promoting.

  30. grerp says:

    To be honest, I have a hard time understanding this kind of intensely strong sex drive, but I think if you replace Athol's assertion of "I need you there for sex or I won't make it through" with "I need you there for emotional support or I won't make it though" most readers wouldn't bat an eye at his more or less demanding that she go.

    I hate traveling and get really stressed out by it, but if my husband's father was dying, I know he wouldn't be able to handle the travel and the visit well without me, so I'd do what I could to make it happen so he could get through it. That's what wives do, or should.

    Athol's father was dying, but he wasn't on his death bed. This was the last family visit. Sex is not out of line in this context or in any other context in which the couple agree to meet each other's needs, as Jennifer and Athol clearly have. This kind of situation only naturally ratchets up emotional neediness, and men tend to solve that kind of thing with sex.

    While Athol's normal may not be my normal or your normal or anyone else's normal, it is what works for him and for them.

  31. M.Night says:

    "While Athol's normal may not be my normal or your normal or anyone else's normal, it is what works for him and for them."

    Cultural relativity only goes so far. There are some universal ethics.

    Athol, my condolences on your loss. I've faced something similar recently.

  32. grerp says:

    Cultural relativity only goes so far. There are some universal ethics.

    I completely agree. I'm hardly an apologist for moral relativism. But as to how they negotiate sex within their married relationship – I'll give them plenty of leeway on that.

  33. Ethan Blue says:

    Anon:
    "Athol thank you for saving my marriage and getting me laid again. Everything was a complete shambles before you came along and put me straight. I cannot thank you enough for everything you have done. Can I take a minute to explain how God has a wonderful plan for your life?"

    Athol:
    "I'm frightened that I might have given you the ability to successfully breed."

    Was this quip necessary? You come off sounding like a angry child.

  34. Ethan Blue says:

    Katherine:
    Why can't people understand that monogamy is not natural?

    Monogamy not being natural is a poor argument against it. Eating pizza isn't natural, but you eat it, a toilet isn't natural, but you use that as well.

    Next time you find yourself in the doggy position sweating and grunting tell me you're not an animal.

    As a man I hope I never find self in that position, but even if I do, I am a human being that makes decisions.

  35. Athol Kay says:

    Ethan Blue – about half the Christians I work with attempt to covert me while/after I help them. Some aren't terribly polite about it either.

    I believe I made the distinction in the post between the ironically unaware Christian and the thoughtful one. My response is quite different to them both.

  36. M.Night says:

    Katherine:

    Next time you find yourself in the doggy position sweating and grunting tell me you're not an animal.

    Ethan Blue:

    As a man I hope I never find self in that position, but even if I do, I am a human being that makes decisions.

    ——

    LOL!!!

  37. Tarlach says:

    Humans fall under the category of pair-bonders, which make up a small percentage of the animal kingdom.

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