More Girls Night Out Drama

“Athol, I am very interested in this topic. I am a 30 yo man living and working in London. My ex girlfriend of 4 years cheated on me whilst on holiday. While she was here in London she always went for drinks until 2am with her work colleagues on fridays, sometimes other days of the week. This used to tick me off, but it just isn’t socially acceptable to deny them. Even my friends used to tell me I was being too harsh by acting upset with her GNO’s. The events that transpired during her girl’s only holidays proved me right, however.

How can I lay down the law in my future relationships…whithout looking like a total spoilt prat in front of my friends and hers?”
There’s two separate things going on here. The first is that she is displaying disinterest in you repeatedly. The second is that you are being shamed into allowing those displays of disinterest to continue unopposed. Then having been reduced to a passive attachment to her life, she stumbled onto an active interest and responded to it.
Stripping away any talk from the situation and just looking at the actions, every Friday night for four years, she was not with you. That means she wanted to be with them, more than she wanted to be with you. Some weeknights as well, she wanted to be with other people more than she wanted to be with you. She also wanted to be drunk repeatedly and avoid intimacy with you, rather than sober and be intimate with you. Ultimately she wanted to not be on a vacation with you, and be intimate with someone else.
I really don’t give a damn about London culture. I’m pretty sure if she said, “I’d rather be home banging my boyfriend“, she wouldn’t lose her job or work friendships. These are choices she makes.
The reason it ticked you off was that you wanted to be with her and she didn’t want to be with you. Maybe I’m just getting too old, but isn’t the entire point of having a steady girlfriend to have some fun together on Friday nights? Your frustration seems pretty reasonable. Wanting to be with your girlfriend on a Friday night doesn’t make you a spoiled prat, it makes you normal. It’s a reasonable request to be together, if only for most Fridays.
If even your friends are shaming you into sitting on your hands and doing nothing because “it’s the culture, stupid”, that just means they are either trying to meet her at the club without you cockblocking, or they are all scared wussies too. Ignore them, sometimes the culture is stupid and you confuse the volume of advice with good advice. A flock of geese make loud honking noises too, but that doesn’t mean they understand the sexual marketplace any better than a bunch of dateless guys on a Friday night. At least geese get laid.

Not letting yourself be treated like day old fish’n'chips isn’t being an ass. It’s attractive behavior that women respond to positively.

In the future, just see her display of disinterest for what it is… disinterest.
So return that disinterest right back to her.
After a couple of nights of her passing on being with you, drop her down the list a spot or two and start dating someone else. Ideally someone that is actually interested in you.
Your girlfriend will probably have a screaming fit, and you just say “You’ve made it clear that you’re not interested in me because you are choosing to not be with me. You can’t really expect me to not have a date every Friday night.” She’ll either pull her crap together quickly or she won’t. Either way it won’t last for four years and it won’t end up as a straycation.
A sober girl that wants to be with you, beats a drunk girl that doesn’t want to be with you every time in my book. So even if she pulls it together maybe someone else is better for you anyway. Like I said before, I’m kinda old; it isn’t really my thing to bang chicks doggy style on the bathroom floor while they clutch the toilet bowl.

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(Cheaper than getting her drunk for one night. Works for at least a week!)

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Comments

  1. Looking Glass says:

    From what I've read, this is far more accepted in the London scene, even compared to like New York. Not sure how much stock you can put in the articles on the topic, but it's definitely considered to be there. So this might come up more with UK readers than US readers as a direct issue they run into more.

    And I don't think you're getting old Athol. You're just stating the very basic premise of a relationship: to spend time & affection with a partner. It's a point even in arranged marriages, but most especially in the modern dating scene. If the point is to say "I have a Boyfriend" or "I have a Girlfriend" and it's nothing else, what do you gain from it? Answer is: nothing, except maybe some social approval.

    Also, I haven't quite gotten the book yet (yes, I know, I slack!), but a lot of what guys have fallen into is not reading actions but words. Most of what you learn with the "Red Pill" really is the old maxim: "you'll know them by their actions". Words are important, but it's the actions that tell you the real story.

  2. Anonymous says:

    So, yea, constant time without you seems like she is a fuck buddy and nothing more. Act accordingly. But more importantly are you limp? Where is your life? If she is out so am I. It ain't like she gets to go out and I take care of the kitties. Or maybe it is.

  3. Looking Glass says:

    This post got me thinking about the different ways the US & UK take vacations. If you have more than a passing interaction with UK media, you know that the Brits like to take vacations "anywhere that isn't the UK and for as long as possible". There's a lot of historical reasons for this, not the least of which is the weather. (And London being a major financial center for the last 250+ years, leading to a strongly-valued Pound, which makes vacations in Italy a hell of a lot cheaper than in Glasgow) But that got me thinking that "taking a trip with a bunch of friends" is something UK & European readers would see as far more normal than a US reader. It presents a different set of issues, especially of the "Eat, Pray, Love" variety.

    From there, though, it reminded me of one of the most brilliant displays of "Inner Game" I've ever known of in person, and I only just realize it.

    The story goes like this: the guy I know has made a solid amount of money, has 5 sons from his only marriage and they've been together for 20+ years. His wife and a few of her friends were going to Hawaii for a week for something akin to a Girl's Vacation. (Think late-40s, married to wealthy men Wives) What I just realized a few minutes ago was how he both helped his son & defended his wife at the same time. He specifically sent his 13 year old son (middle of the 5 sons) along on the vacation. He told me at the time, since he had the other 4 sons for the week, that he sent his son because he was the most timid of the 5 and really needed to get comfortable around women. Thus, he figured that it was a good way to socialize his son better. (He mentioned the trip positively some time later, so it had the desired effect).

    I realize now how he just naturally took care of any issue that could crop up as a relationship danger in the situation. By sending his physically capable son, it gives him complete piece of mind about both his wife being compromised or someone trying to compromise her. Along with helping his son better understand & interact with women. This ties a bit into the Girl's Night Out issue, as he specifically had someone there to guard his relationship, but he never specifically thought about it like that. From what I remember, when his Wife first pitched the idea of the vacation, that was his first thought (helping his son become more of a man, so Massive Beta skill display). Yet it was also a pure but unconscious Alpha/DHV move (protect the relationship/set & enforce boundaries in an area with large possible risks to the relationship). I always had thought of it as a really thoughtful thing he did, but I never realized how naturally brilliant it was.

    For the record, the guy is what the Roissy-sphere would call a Lesser Alpha (player in his younger years), but still has a geeky streak and very strong Beta skills (raised 4 sons, 5th is only 10 years old at this point, so still a work in progress). Always had a lot of respect for him, I'm really understanding why now.

    Bit of a tangent, but the story goes to a lot of what Athol is saying and a few points that've come up recently. Once you've internalized the proper way to handle relationships, this stuff just comes naturally. Which really is why Athol has a lot of good advice for relationships: he knows how to do this better than most and can explain why things work & things don't. So, keep up the good work!

  4. Trimegistus says:

    I still don't get the whole idea of Girls Night Out. I've said this in other comments. I just don't understand how any rational person — man or woman — can respond to the idea of "I'm going out to get trashed while you stay home" with anything but a firm "NO!"

    Look at it this way: if you like going out drinking, then go out drinking together. A nice way to spend an evening and in a few years you can share a room at Betty Ford. Win all around.

    And if you don't like going out drinking, why are you dating someone who does? That's just saving up problems for down the road.

  5. Thag Jones says:

    I wouldn't take anyone who goes on regular drunken GNOs seriously. That person has some serious growing up to do.

  6. hans says:

    Ugh, GNO, bachelorette parties and the ravishes of feminism.

    Women desperately trying to ape men, and as usually it all ends up revolving around getting attention and obviously bathing the ovaries in foreign seed, if it "feeels" right.

    NO thanks.

  7. hans says:

    I think this link is relevant to the topic.

  8. Athol Kay says:

    Wow Hans she is a cold fish isn't she. Like a female Roissy.

  9. Anonymous says:

    Thankful my wife only has one GNO a year – dinner with her best friends – and she always comes home before the bar-hopping.

  10. Codeazure says:

    The whole GNO culture is widespread, particularly in the UK, but also in Australia & NZ. From the comments, it sounds like it is less common in the US.

    Well you're lucky if you miss it. The sight of groups of aggressive, drunk, (often) overweight women is totally repulsive to me, and I suspect most men. I would (and have) specifically avoid a relationship with any woman who was into this culture.

    This is something relatively new. It was very uncommon to see this 20 years ago. With pressure like the guy in this article came under, it sounds like it is hard to avoid. Especially since most young men haven't developed the relationship skills to control such behaviour.

  11. Thag Jones says:

    hans, wow. What a piece of work.

  12. Randy says:

    I'm sorry, is that a typo or is this from a 96 year old man? Because that's going to be a factor, I think.

  13. Badger says:

    "Women desperately trying to ape men, and as usually it all ends up revolving around getting attention and obviously bathing the ovaries in foreign seed, if it "feeels" right."

    Minor correction: women trying to ape ALPHA men, frat guys who compete to drink and count up notches. Again the apex fallacy, only seeing the top men and thinking they should play like they do.

    "Well you're lucky if you miss it. The sight of groups of aggressive, drunk, (often) overweight women is totally repulsive to me, and I suspect most men. I would (and have) specifically avoid a relationship with any woman who was into this culture."

    I don't think it is less common in the US, codeazure (do you get to use the paddles with that name, BTW?) in all the major coastal cities I've lived in clubs and bars are stuffed on weekends with slaggy drunk women screaming and groping hunky men who walk by. It must be what the gay bathhouse culture looked like before it got shut down in the age of AIDS.

    What's weird about GNOs is that people in my generation often partake in these weird "semi-relationship" states. People are monogamously "dating" but reserve the right to go out and get sloshed, and if somebody cheats that was just a risk of doing business in this SMP. It's part and parcel of the hookup culture, and in my mind flows directly from the devaluing of marital commitment that was unleashed by the divorce-happy Boomers and Gen X – this devaluing trickles down to all levels of committed relationships.

    Personal note: I knew the foundations of my recently-ended LTR were very shaky when my girl told me she felt she really had to go out clubbing a lot. Said she thought it might motivate her to dress better and lose weight. If I hear this in my next relationship, I'll run immediately.

  14. Phil Mueller says:

    Randy, do you use Firefox? I do and "quoted" text on MMSL always shows up with various errors– particularly numbers, punctuation, and the letter f for whatever reason. If you view the page in IE or just copy-paste the text into a word processor it will display properly. When I do that I can see that he is 30 not 96. : )

  15. Anonymous says:

    You will get no end of shit for stopping a GNO in London. Lived there for 12 years in 3 LTR's and there's only one way to deal with it:

    What's good enough for the goose is good enough for the gander. You need to make your lads holidays and boys night outs more frequent and more spectacular than hers. Bonus points if you roll home after her and find her sitting up waiting for you. Drunk porno sex!

    When she finally goes insane with jealousy and tells you to stop, then you know what your counter negotiation point is. You have to be willing to ditch the boys nights out though, which is something I never quite managed to do as the possibility of upgrading kinda goes through the roof…

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