Is Her Asking For Marriage To End Long Distance A Fitness Test?

Reader Email: Dear Athol, I wanted to take this opportunity to say “Thank you” for the large amount of information and insight you have made available on your MMSL website. I’ve been reading regularly for the past few months now, and I find it reassuring to see concepts which I have been struggling with described and explained in an easy-to-understand format. Rest assured that I have ordered the book, and am currently awaiting its arrival.
My girlfriend and I have been together for almost 5 years now, the last 3 of which have been at a distance of 400 miles. We are both previously married, her with one teenager and me with two younger kids. When I got transferred to my current location 3 years ago, I offered for her and her son to move in with me. She looked around my new area for jobs, but that was back in ’09 when the economy went in the dumper. After not finding anything, and given that her son was now in high school, she wished to wait until he was done to consider moving again.
Well, that time is approaching soon, and I’m starting to get the “where is our future headed” vibe/questions. Now, I haven’t received any kind of ultimatum, but after some discussion, it’s become apparent that she is ready to get married and won’t move here unless I propose.
Am I facing the ultimate fitness/shit test here?
Athol: Hi there, thanks for the kind words, much appreciated.
In this case I don’t think it is a Fitness Test. What you’re asking her to do is uproot her entire life and come to you. So you’re asking for her to display commitment to you. By holding out for marriage, she’s asking you to display commitment to her.
She’s basically playing “Tit for Tat” as I would advise her to do. Either you both play the “commitment” card, or you both play the “not committed” card and no one is worse off than the other. But she can’t let herself get punked by her playing the “commitment” card and you playing the “not committed” card.
If I was advising her, I would tell her not to move unless you marry her… if moving her whole life isn’t enough to get you to pop the question, the question will never be popped because you can get her to do what you want without having to.
So it seems a fairly reasonable expectation on her part. She gets a husband, you get a wife and a live-in stepmom for your kids. However the risk to you is she moves her whole life to be your wife, and “fails on arrival”. She can’t find a job, she can’t find friends, she can’t do whatever… and she crashes into an early retirement of sorts at your expense. So I think a reasonable expectation for you is that she doesn’t fail on arrival and clear/fair/reasonable expectations should be set in that area. (i.e. “you need to find an appropriate job within X months”)
The entire point of marriage being to have a functional, productive and happy life together.
And naturally this entire thought process is dependant on her being someone worth marrying in the first place.
I have a sixth sense that all is not sitting right with you on a gut level. If after three years long distance you haven’t decided she is someone you want to spend the rest of your life with, I don’t know when that feeling is going to kick in for you. Jennifer and I were long distance for three years and all but deranged to get together and married and the suffering of long distance over with. Jennifer and I put marriage on the table to begin our long distance courtship. You don’t seem that keen.
Plus if you’re reading the blog and about to read the book, I suspect you’re about to get the jones to get your shit together and bump your Sex Rank up a point or two and see what that gets you on the open market.
Your call. If she’s the one, she’s the one and more power to you. If not, don’t drag it out.

I Don’t Understand The Slutwalks

Wikipedia for those unaware of teh Slutwalks.

Shouldn’t they be done in a bad part of town at 2am with everyone in the parade drunk?

Don’t forget the crazy four inch heels so you can’t run.

Or is that not safe?

Morning Wood But Penis Won’t Deploy As Intended

I had a question about erectile dysfunction recently. It got somewhat long and involved but basically broke down into three pieces. (1) He still gets good morning wood, (2) a lot of medical issues and medications, and (3) awkward loss of erection when she was good to go, and she wasn’t wet enough when he was good to go. All very stressful and after a few failures, you start panicking that the damn thing is going to fail again.
The good news is (1), morning wood. That is a great sign that your penis is physically functional and capable of getting hard and being usable. You aren’t quite dead yet. Woo-hoo!
The bad news was (2), lots of medical issues and medications. There are a ton of medical issues and meds that will start hampering you from being the man of steel. I’m not going to spell out the issues for this particular reader because in the end we had about six different things that might be causing a negative effect. So in the end it’s really a case of heading back to your primary MD and spelling out that you are having trouble down there. Sometimes it’s possible to switch medications around and fix the problem early.
The trouble is most doctors don’t tend to ask as many questions as they could – they are all swamped beyond all reason these days. So if you’re in there for say a blood pressure issue and they juggle a blood pressure med around for a couple months and your blood pressure is in the good range they think they have solved the problem. If they ask you how you are doing in general, and you say “good”… well they think you are doing good. You have to say what’s really bothering you. If you say “actually since starting medication X, my dick doesn’t work so well“, they will immediately start problem solving that. Maybe it’s a switch to medication Y. Or just stopping medication X. Or whatever. But you have to advocate for yourself or you will waste the appointment time.
So what I can suggest a fix for though, is (3) the awkward despair that nothing will work as intended and no one goes to sleep happy. Because you have (1) morning wood, my hunch is with a little planning, it’s going to work just fine.
She lies on her back and you lie next to her. Use a little lube to smooth things over at the start, and begin fingering her toward orgasm. While you are fingering her, she holds your penis in her hand and as much as she can, gently jerks and rubs you while you finger her. She’s probably not going to have a great deal of range of motion, but that’s fine. You just want her holding you and providing a little stimulation, she’s not actually going to be able to make you orgasm this way. Plus as she approaches her orgasm she’ll likely stop paying direct conscious attention to stroking you and instead turn into a slightly more erratic shaking and clutching.
The whole time this is going on, your attention will be focused on getting her off… and not on your dick. Once she orgasms she will be very wet, and you should be quite hard. You should be able to take it from there!
If it’s all in your head, then having this as a backup plan should take all the pressure off. There’s been plenty of times Jennifer and I have started in this position with me not even being hard, but by the time she is orgasming, I’m totally into it. It’s completely normal to need a little help getting warmed up once in a while.
The other option of course is something like Viagra. But before adding another medication, I’d be keen to see how the position above works, and if other medical or medication issues can be resolved first.
And the response via email…
You are truly a giant among men. Tried your starting position, solved a lot of my distraction problems. Wife sends her thank you’s, as do I. Still going to follow up about my meds though, spooky crap when you wonder if your penis is going to work, and more so when it starts failing.

Thanks again, Athol.
Well how good do I feel? I feel like I got the power!

Oh seriously WTF was that. Totally wrong video sorry. Crap.

Hang on.

I’ve Got The Power!

Phew. I hope no one saw that stupid Jem video. Though she is outrageous. Truly, truly truly outrageous.
I haz duh powah. Unwimited powah.
Low blood sugar. It happens.
These aren’t the droids you are looking for. You can go about your business. Move along.

Jennifer: LOL do you have a fever?

Athol: I do. And there’s only one prescription for it. More Cowbell.

Jennifer: It’s going to be a long night isn’t it.

Athol: Resistance is futile.

Sexy Move: Hit Her Big Red Easy Button

Mr. Kay-
First I just wanted to say thank you, thank you, thank you for your book. It has changed my marriage over the course of a weekend. I had been previously familiar with Game, even using some of it to land my wife. But then I back slid into beta-ness and our relationship was souring. Via the magic of the interwebz, I found your site and purchased your book. After devouring your book, I went back to applying Game concepts to my life. And BAM! Magically our relationship is back on firm ground, moving nicely forward. So Thank you!
My dilemma: My wife finds it difficult to orgasm via vaginal intercourse. She can occasionally ‘get off’ on top, but even that has its difficulties. I have given her an orgasm orally. The problem is her favorite way to achieve the big O. That is for her to play with herself while I lick and caress her breasts. It’s definitely not my favorite thing to do, but I do it about once a week for her. It just feels so damn weak and beta. Even before I read your book and reclaimed my alpha status, it felt as though I was surrendering something by getting her off like this. So I only do it once a week so that it’s like a treat for her. She has stated that it is unfair of me to now want to do this for her every time we are intimate. I respond by saying that if she wants orgasm every time we copulate she needs to figure out what is preventing her from orgasming (a couple of times she’s told me that she “almost came that time, I just couldn’t”) I think that there is some sort of mental block (shame?) that prevents her from giving in and fully enjoying sex.
This leads to my question: Is it beta for me to be doing this for her? I want her to achieve orgasm, but I don’t want her to just view me as a ‘vibrator’.
Thanks again for everything you do for men!
you have some misinformation about women’s orgasms. The fact that your wife can orgasm from vaginal intercourse puts her in the 30% of women that can ever orgasm from just vaginal intercourse. That’s “ever” as in ever in their entire sexual history. So rather than her difficulty being a problem, it’s actually excellent luck on her part that she can.
It may interest you to know that Jennifer has never even once had a vaginal orgasm. We’ve done it where she has orgasmed with my penis inside her, but she has to finger her clit to get there. The issue is just simply how far the clit is located proximal to the entry to the vagina – anything further than 1.5 inches away basically rules out unassisted vaginal orgasms. Your combined sexual skill and willingness to make a vaginal orgasm happen aren’t as much of a factor as you might think they are. Trust me, we tried on this one for a while and all we both got was sore. (Well actually I did orgasm too, but I was a little sore)
The most excellent news is that your wife is very aware of her body and what makes her orgasm best. She’s also willing to speak up for it too, so she clearly has no shame issue here. She’s making herself responsible for her own orgasms. That’s an excellent thing. If she’s responsible for her orgasms, then you are to an extent her vibrator. Just like she kinda becomes your fucktoy.
Helping her to orgasms is a Beta Trait. It’s a very positive thing and she will have a major oxytocin reaction bonding herself to you when she has those thundering orgasms from fingering herself while you play with the boobies. My hunch is on those nights where she gets her favorite sexual thing, she is more interested in getting you your favorite sexual things.
So this may sound a little harsh, but right now the thing stopping her from orgasming every time is… well, you.
Seriously, who rations orgasms? Why are you denying her favorite sexual thing? What would happen if she played that same game back at you? Are you with the orgasm police? (Okay, so now I’m being harsh, but Jennifer got her car keys out and was demanding to know your street address… I’m pretending to do some body blows here to make her think I’m dealing with you.)
Just think of it as going on a date to a restaurant – let her order what she wants to have, and you order what you want to have. She gets hers, and you get yours. You both get happy.
Hope that helps. And anyway, if you feel overly Beta after all that, a few playful swats on her ass makes an excellent palate cleanser.

Girl Game: How To Get Him To Be More Dominant In Bed

The whole rough sex and have a go at dominating the female thing is extremely counter-socialization for men that are naturally good at the Beta side of things. We’d like to be soft and caring for our women and that certainly has an appeal outside the bedroom, but not so much inside the bedroom. At least not every time anyway.
One of the problems of girlfriends and wives reading the blog and The Primer is that their vague sense of discontent about their man, suddenly comes into sharper focus and they gain language to express it. Where before they might have unconsicously Fitness Tested, now they simply say “The problem is I need you to be more Alpha with me. I’m turned on by being submissive.”
That’s a whole new problem. Instead of unconciously seeking an Alpha response, now she is consciously aware of wanting one. Plus she’s holding a instruction manual of “how to give an Alpha response” in her hand and wondering why the hell he can’t get it.
What’s happening is she has already arrived at the Captain and First Officer model and/or wanting rougher sex and is now impatiently waiting for him to catch up to her. But it’s hard for a natural nice guy to suddenly flip a switch and pull Conan the Barbarian out of his ass and start ravaging her with abandon.
The obvious danger, with serious consequences, is that he’s totally misreading her signals…

…so even though it might kill the fantasy a little, the solution for the woman that wants it, is to make her signals extremely clear that she’s into it.
I said in an email earlier today to a woman that wants the rough stuff.
“At this point I think you are sending him the wrong message. You are saying you are unhappy with the sex you are getting, but you keep repeatedly offering him sex vainly hoping that he’s going to “pin you down and just go for it”. Which means your actions are communicating that you want the plain vanilla sex you are getting.
Suggest rather than pursuing him for sex you don’t want, start more actively seeking sex that you do want. If rough/dominating sex is what turns you on, you could experiment with watching porn with those themes and using a vibrator… and not begging your boyfriend to join you. If he wants to join in that’s fine, but you shouldn’t pressure him to do so. You’re just displaying your interest in sex of this type.
The difference between you going “Ooh, Aah” with gentle Care Bear sex with him, and you going “YES! YES! YES! OMG! AAAAAHHHHHH!!! (pant pant pant)” watching male dominant female submissive porn… should be a clear message to him. Hopefully he’ll understand what you want sexually. It probably won’t happen after one or two tries, but it will open the door to conversation and a sense of safety to try this in him.”

It all comes down to the talk vs actions thing. Stop talking at him about what you want, and start showing him what you want.

Ready For Our CloseUp

I haven’t shown all the mass media attention we’ve gotten over the last month or so. I had a couple more radio interviews in Australia. The most bizarre one was an interview (that I didn’t give) in an online newspaper in Kenya, but that actually got me twice as many hits as the Inside Edition piece did. It’s online and had a hypertext link, therefore people clicked.
Anyway… the video below is from Television New Zealand who sent their man Tim Wilson up from New York for the day to make nice-nice and get the story.
At this point I’m starting to get a little jaded by the TV/radio/newspaper deal. It’s enormously difficult to get anything close to the core message into a mass media acceptable sound bite and we essentially turn into “Meet the Fuckersons”. Which is fine in and of itself, but it really doesn’t seem to result in many hits to the blog or book sales.
Oh the very bright side though, Jennifer comes across like she enjoys the sex and isn’t being held hostage. Which people always seem to worry about. Her mom worries she’s being held hostage. Her dad worries she enjoys the sex.

Vanishing Manosphere Blogs

Been some vanishings in the night of Manosphere blogs and writers.
Rivelino at Alpha Game went private after being discovered by a co-worker.
Novaseeker had stopped active blogging some time ago, but stayed an active commenter on many. He’s announced retirement even from that.
OneSTDV simply said “I quit”, then explained why and said posting would be minimal. But mysteriously posting has continued. But my experience of announcements of quitting suggests that actual quitting usually follows eventually.
Samson’s Jawbone also announced he would be cutting back on posting too.
Roissy may have changed hands again. It was “Roissy” until late 2009 when it appeared he was vanishing in the aftermath of the Lady Raine thing. Then returned as Citizen Renegade, and now the posting name has changed to “Heartiste”. Maybe it’s just a name change, it just tips off my radar is all.
Blogging is deceptive. On one hand it’s terribly easy to do it badly. On the other it’s enormously difficult to do well. But most readers tend to understand the easy parts better than the hard ones. One of the greatest challenges is to maintain the effort over the long haul. After the emotional high of people liking your writing fades after the first few months, you don’t actually make any money at it comparable to your effort put in to writing the blog. Then it eventually becomes a soulless grind as you slowly start turning into a literary chump.
Thursday morning I got a formal and apologetic email from ending my affiliate status. It’s all to do with a war over sales tax and Connecticut passed a law demanding sales tax on any sales through affiliate links, so terminated all Connecticut affiliates. In practical terms, I just got screwed out of about $2,000 a year. Dammit, I was just excited about the Supreme 90 Fitness DVD link too.
Thursday night I got struck down by a mysterious and sudden GI upset that had me taking naps on the bathroom floor. The soft and squishy bathmat for my birthday a most welcome and beloved artifact. Friday I stayed home and drank ginger ale. Much the same today. Some solids.
So anyway… life continues on.
Sometimes life is all a grind. Sometimes life does sucker punch you right in the gut. But the blog has a meaningful purpose greater than just me feeling good (I give), and it has a meaningful product that people are buying (I receive). So there is a balance.
And also I’d really prefer not to fail at making this a full time gig.

Extending Grace: Moving On After Cheating

I’m getting slightly irked how we are getting sidetracked into MMSL becoming the cheating wives blog, but these are hot button topics and having opened up the can of worms, I have to deal with them. I have a few more posts coming, but I have to catch up with an individual reader question in response to a comment I left on Forgiveness.
Athol: Taking a woman back can very much be the worst Beta move possible. Properly framed however, plus with her geniune repentance, it can be possible to move forward. There’s no requirement to extend grace to a cheater and it must be understood as such by the cheater to move forward.
Many couples can recover from affairs and be stronger for it. Some cannot.
Reader Question: I can’t figure out how to properly frame this so that I can do this. How do you move forward and be the captain after a mutiny?
First up let me say this clearly so that everyone gets my perspective from the start… I am NOT an automatic “Kick the Bitch Out” advisor when it comes to a wife cheating. Each situation is evaluated on a case by case basis.
Also while I firmly believe the wife has made a choice to betray the husband, I also believe almost without exception the husband has some kind of area of weakness that has helped create the situation that resulted in the cheating. Her behavior is not excused by his behavior, but it is usually a factor in explaining her behavior. If whatever that weak area of his is, fails to be corrected, the cheating will very likely resume or she will straight up leave him.
Now assuming you have already caught the affair and exposed it to her (Chapter 27 of The Primer covers how), the steps…
Expect The Meltdown. When women are caught and exposed as cheating on their husband, and I mean really the “oh snap, I’m screwed, he knows for sure I did it”, they almost always have a complete wailing meltdown and beg for forgiveness and say they will never do it again, and that they are sorry yada yada yada. This is a 100% genuine experience to them and in this moment they are not lying. What they are doing is running a Time Before Writing survival program, where they display complete submission to you, in order to avoid you killing them on the spot.
Remove All Beta Support: During the meltdown, you tell her to get the hell out as you are through with her. She needs to be the one to go, not you. You staying in the home is extremely important. You also stop doing anything supportive for her, you don’t drive her to work like you usually do etc. No calls, no texts, no emails starting from your end. Start the process of contacting lawyers to begin divorce procedings. The purpose of all this is to give her a proper taste of reality and life without you.
She Properly Apologizes. At some point she will get that proper sense of “oh crap he’s really going to end the marriage” and she will make a far more conscious apology. She is trying to save her skin of course, but she’s also trying to save her marriage as well. She needs to fully own that she made choices against you rather than somehow blame you for your weak area as the cause of her cheating. She needs to admit that you would be fully justified in terminating the marriage for what she did.
She Must Be Repentant. There is absolutely nothing you can do that won’t backfire on you at some point in the future if she is not truly repentant. Repentant meaning she is both sorry and going to change her behavior and not repeat the cheating again. You need to see evidence of this change of behavior before believing it. The other man must be completely cut out of her life and whatever other circumstances are relevant need to be addressed as well. (Like if it happen with a gym contact, she needs to find a new gym etc.)
Understand Your Part and Forgive. Whether or not you decide to stay with her, you should come to terms with what your weak area was with her, and leverage it as a path to understanding why she did what she did, and come to forgiveness and peace about it. This is for your long term benefit, not hers. This is about trying to get past the justifiable rage over the cheating, and being able to reconnect again. Whether that reconnection is to her, or another woman in the future isn’t the issue – it’s just that you can reconnect again. It’s okay to admit the weak area here.
Extend Grace. This is now your choice. Even if you admit you did a bunch of stuff badly in the relationship, and understand why she cheated, you don’t have to continue the marriage. Maybe you just can’t feel like she’s worth risking yourself with again. Or maybe she is. Maybe you were the model husband, but she did it anyway, and yet you feel you can try again. The circumstances and length of the affair is no doubt a factor here. It’s totally up to you. But she must understand and verbalize that if you choose to extend grace to her and continue trying, that she is getting a second chance that she does not deserve.
No Third Chance. She also needs to verbalize understanding that there will never be a repeat of this experience. If she cheats again, you will simply divorce her without discussion, kindness or concern for her privacy. Should you ever gain proof of future cheating, that will be supplied with the serving of the papers.
Start Rebuilding. Admit your weak area and begin work on that. She needs to start rebuilding trust and being open. Counseling together may be very helpful at this point as well.
In time, an affair may come to be regarded by a couple as ultimately a bad thing that served as a wake up call to them both that created a positive change in the relationship. Or it can just be over.
If STDs or pregnancy are potential concerns, you should clarify those issues immediately.
Also much of this applies just the same to other extremely serious “WHAT THE HELL DID YOU DO?” things in marriage. Jennifer and I have extended grace to each other over various issues a number of times in our marriage. Even very good marriages are going to have screw up moments in them. Sometimes you just have to weigh up a couple of dumb days vs years of good ones… and how unbelievably bad divorce may be for both of you.


PX90 Clone is $20

I get a ton of advertising requests thrown at me every month and I pass on them all. I can’t stand websites filled with advertising and frankly I flog the book as the moneymaker enough to make everyone feel mildly ill as it is. (Speaking of which… buy the book!)
“Even better than P90X ($120 plus shipping) is “Supreme 90″, only $20 at Target. I’m on day 34, and let’s just say my wife hugely appreciates my ability to do the plank position indefinitely, with harder faster ‘core dynamics’ as well.”
So… $20 for 10 DVDs cloning the PX90 muscle confusion stuff seems beyond awesome as a deal and dovetails into what I’m suggesting everyone do as well. I took a look-see on Amazon and it’s $40, but if you click through to the used and new links, it’s as cheap currently as $20 inc the shipping.
So anyway, I’ve not bought it / seen it as yet, but reviews are generally good. So I’m picking it up myself shortly. If it’s worthless crap let me know return it to Amazon. I believe you will need some free weights as well.
For now at least it makes the honor roll on the left sidebar.

Oneitis Broken —> Batshit Crazy? = Steady As She Goes

I’ll keep it short and sweet. Had I found and read your blog-book 2 years ago, I would have saved a long term dual virgin marriage, kept my assets, job, etc. I got back involved with an early affair partner, now find myself trying to save her and severe oneitis.
Wow, I lost my balls.
We are not married so that is good, don’t live together, so it hits me between the eyes after reading the chapter on oneitis; I need to go cold turkey, stop the spending, try to do it all. Clearly she will either accept and come back or flee looking for another chump. Without knowing MAP, I did take myself from a 6 to 8 as a 52 year old guy, lost a corporate job, yet launch a successful consulting practice( well into six plus$) and pulling lots of attraction and interest. Women are replaceable…I love it, I’m pretty damn good, just too much of a nice guy..
So the talk tonight will be no trip to Italy, no more home improvements, no more subsidizing her monthly alimony, child support income from her loser ex.
My cost per lay is way out of line.
Another topic is batshit crazy and trying to fix someone that has been abused is a losing proposition, have to be healthy to have heathy.
Keep up the outstanding insight and motivation for recovering nice guys.
Email Update…
AK, well an old dog can learn. You’re wisdom Applies men of all ages. Thanks again,
Btw, update on breaking oneitis. You have a crystal ball. The news on no trip resulted in tears, immediate move to come over and talk, upset, blaming throwing things (BS Crazy), then the other kryptonite–attempt of wanting sex to get want she wanted. Hell she hasn’t climbed on top of me with a tennis skirt( my weakness) in ages– No dice. And she is an 8–I stood firm. Then the use of her kids, I’m disappointed them, the shame crap. Not working. I never said the relationship was over, just reframed. I want a commitment for affection, warmth, and sex. It feels great
Athol: This all sounds like a marked improvement. However, I would watch the Batshit Crazy angle very carefully. Her throwing things at you is seriously uncool. Recommend getting a phone that has good video recording feature and should she ever start throwing things again, start taping her tantrum as your defense that you were not the one escalating the domestic violence. And end the relationship.
That being said, she may not be Batshit Crazy, just seriously acting out over been called on the carpet for her poor behavior. May have been just a major reseting of the relationship. So steady as she goes.