Sometimes It All Gets To Me

I getĀ a lot of reader email. A lot of it is win, but some of it is lose. I’m okay with that. It’s life and I’m doing what I can.
A recent email got to me though. She unleashed the dreaded “I love you but I’m not in love with you” speech on him and he knew enough to know that things were bad. He scrambled around the Internet for a bit and eventually found his way here. Within a day or so he’s getting up to speed on the Alpha Beta thing and orders the book.
Within two weeks he’s getting resultsĀ and she’s starting to respond to him better. It’s working.
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Comments

  1. Anonymous says:

    Yes it's sad, another marriage broken up.

    But the guy will go on better armed for future relationships. The girl will have to live with the shame of cheating and might or might not end up cheating in future relationships.

    You ain't omnipotent. Shake it off.

    Cheers,
    Fred

  2. Anonymous says:

    Sorry to heat that Athol. I know how hard is for us marriage champions to see how easy it would had been to avoid losing another one, is painful indeed, but like Fred say we are not God and we are dealing with grown people and their choices, you already saved a lot of them, rejoice on the good and try to just learn from the bad.

    *hugs*
    S.R.

  3. Candice says:

    There still may be hope….

    I don't know the circumstances, but I'd be inclined to be tolerant of what appears to be a one-off interaction.

    It's so easy to do something you regret later – we've all done something we regret …AND people that married their first crush can be pretty clueless and therefore vulnerable.

    I think people generally just get too het up over one-off sexual encounters. One needs to think of the big picture – are we talking about something that may have been a mistake fuelled by alcohol and dissatisfaction? Was the relationship basically sound? Are their children involved? Can trust be re-established?

    I'd be looking for a disease check, a cooling off period and a moratorium on further daliances so both parties can get their acts together.

  4. MarkyMark says:

    Thanks for yet ANOTHER reminder why I'm glad to be single! Yeah, I could 'alpha up', but why bother? Why put in the effort? Why do this when the bitch will cheat anyway? Might as well live life happy & single… :)

  5. Athol Kay says:

    Candice – the GNO that started it was 1.5 years ago. The cheating was quite purposeful.

    MarkyMark – Most men are already married when they find anything MRA related. Thanks for the shaming.

    And speaking us someone that has worked long term care, don't assume that the MGHOW end game is at all happy. The male patients without families and children are some of the most miserable people I have ever met my whole life.

    When marriage works well, it is very good for men.

  6. Cidrais says:

    Athol, I am very interested in this topic. I am a 30 yo man living and working in London. My ex girlfriend of 4 years cheated on me whilst on holiday. While she was here in London she always went for drinks until 2am with her work colleagues on fridays, sometimes other days of the week. This used to tick me off, but it just isn't socially acceptable to deny them. Even my friends used to tell me I was being too harsh by acting upset with her GNO's.
    How can I lay down the law in my future relationships…whithout looking like a total spoilt prat in front of my friends and hers?

  7. elhaf says:

    Thanks Athol, I'm happy to see a defense of marriage that is not religion-oriented. Religion is good for some people, but my experience with the church-going is that they all cheat too.

  8. Anonymous says:

    elhaf,

    "my experience with the church-going is that they all cheat too"

    I'm very "churchgoing". Dad a pastor. Parents did not cheat. My wife and I double-virgins. Have not cheated. By God's grace will not. Reading Athol so I'll be even less tempted to cheat – ever. Regular sex is an important part of marriage – and Athol is a wise guide here.

    -Nathan

  9. Ed Hurst says:

    While I doubt you'll take much interest in my mystical approach to faith, I felt it only right to offer here in the comments a trackback from my own blog post in response, since MyOpera doesn't do trackbacks last time I checked.

  10. Jim Hollywood says:

    The whole GNO involving drinking, flirting, dancing and what not boggles my mind. How is this ok? Then follow that up with comments like why is this a big deal? Or "it was a mistake". In my view this is just a very common form of cheating. It is widely accepted and defended by many if not most women. I also hate the trust card thrown in. The trust was broken when the woman chose to put herself into this vulnerable situation. I call it "just the tip". Very disrespectful of the marriage and the husband. This under the "it's a bit of harmless fun" or "I need a night of freedom". It is in essence a break from the marriage. How is that a good thing? I wonder what the statistics are of men raising some other guys children as a direct result from this girls night out?

    I am fortunate that my wife has never been into this stuff. All married couples have their challenges, but this one is just asking for big issues. I guess it is more important to the women than the marriage. I also keep hearing but guys have done this for years. Well the guy is sitting home with the kids while the wife is out playing with these very men. Messed up.

  11. Eric says:

    Athol, another thing to consider: your methods do work… but only generally. There are some marriages that can't be saved by alpha/beta level adjustments for various reasons, just as there are some where an overabundance of alpha or beta (and the deluge or drought of sex that accompanies it) work just fine for that relationship.

    You have created an incredibly useful model here for describing many practical elements of marriage, and it is especially useful for analyzing some of the maladies that are unique to modern marriages, but it isn't a perfect model… there are just too many variables.

    That's not meant as a criticism, it's just to say there is no point beating yourself up when one slips through your hands.

  12. Monica Moncrief Rogers says:

    Wait, so the girls night out thing is a no no? I really enjoy my once a month night out with my friends. I've never been even remotely tempted by any guys out at the bars. I'm not open to being picked up, maybe that helps. Plus if we feel like dancing we go to the gay clubs. They're the most fun anyway :-)

  13. Eric says:

    Regarding the GNO, I guess I'd say it depends on the variables. If your wife likes to go to the club with girlffriends every weekend, that's likely something to be alarmed over. If her and some friends like to go to the bar every time a particular band plays there, or go out to celebrate a birthday, or just get together there if they haven't seen eachother in a few months, I'd say that's much less cause for concern. It also depends on the quality of your wife and your wife's friends. My wife pretty much ended one of her long term friendshps because a friend invited her out on a GNO without telling her the plan was to go salsa dancing. My wife was furious with her friend for putting her in the position of having to walk out on the evening or else explain to me why she'd been doing something she knew I'd be pissed over (she left and came home).

    I think age also factors in. Going to 'the bar' or 'the club' is a lot less appealing to both my wife and myself at 35 than it was at 25. I'd prefer to go fishing or hunting or camping with my guy friends. She's prefer to go get massages or go to a museum or a play with her girl friends. That just wasn't the case 10 years ago.

  14. YOHAMI says:

    WTF is he working on the relationship if she is cheating. Its over.

  15. Athol Kay says:

    Yohami – not always. It's certainly a critical incident, that needs immediate action, but not always the divorce route.

    Monica – really depends on your friends and where you go. But it only takes you being disloyal for 5 minutes to make your husband go on the hook for 18 years of court ordered child support for a kid that isn't his.

    Hence mens "paranoia"… :-/

    Thanks for other kind words. I know I can only do so much. I'm just feel so many of these cases so strongly. Finely tuned senses is all.

  16. knightblaster says:

    I guess I'm with Yohami on this one. One and done. I was also in a situation with a wife who cheated while we were supposedly "working on" the marriage with a therapist. Flush. No way it's worth moving forward, in my opinion. Yes, people make mistakes, but some mistakes are "core" mistakes that pretty much undermine the whole thing. Therapist said if the marriage was to continue I would have to forget about what happened and start a new relationship with wife from scratch again. No thank you. Not with someone who just cheated on me.

  17. Athol Kay says:

    Knightblaster – your therapist was an idiot then. That's burying a problem not addressing it.

    I've seen a number of marriages turn around and be better for the discovery and complete and proper addressing of the affair. Some, but not all. I try to offer options of approach on cheating in marriage. It's up to the cheated on spouse to decide a path.

    Girlfriends or boyfriends cheating should be flushed though. I think you have to do that on principle.

    Even in marriage I advise "you only get one".

  18. knightblaster says:

    your therapist was an idiot then. That's burying a problem not addressing it.

    It wasn't not addressing it (we were addressing it anyway) as much as it was forgetting the old relationship and starting a new one. The idea was that the old relationship was broken, and that a new one was needed. I had no interest in doing that with someone who had cheated. Others may feel differently, of course.

  19. Athol Kay says:

    It's more the forgetting the old relationship routine that gets me. You really can't forget. Whether you divorce or stay, you're still going to remember.

    I just hear "Sweep under the rug".

  20. Monica says:

    @Athol: I've given it some more thought and for me GNOs still rate as a positive thing. I'm not out looking for a guy and the guys out at bars can't get past my defenses.

  21. knightblaster says:

    It's more the forgetting the old relationship routine that gets me. You really can't forget. Whether you divorce or stay, you're still going to remember.

    I just hear "Sweep under the rug".

    I think she was being pragmatic. The idea was that the wife was not going back to that relationship, and felt justified to cheat on it. So the idea was to create a new one on a new basis that she would not feel the need to cheat on.

    It was nonsense, of course, as the old relationship and new relationship distinction is false and also plays into the hands of the cheating spouse (almost always the woman for this kind of advice, when a man cheats he is told to be contrite and make amends .. don't tell women that because they feel righteous in cheating).

    Pragmatism, I think, was where the advice was coming from.

  22. knightblaster says:

    the guys out at bars can't get past my defenses.

    But in part you are there for their validation, yes?

    Is it then also okay for your partner to seek validation from women on BNOs in pick up bars, provided he agrees to stop short of succumbing to temptation (understanding that this is much less likely to happen for men in that situation than for women, as women have much greater access to casual sex than men do)?

    Why actively engage temptation? For the shits and giggles?

  23. Kyle says:

    Hi Athol,

    I picked up the digital copy of your book recently after reading about it on Vox Day's blog. I found it to be worth its weight in digital gold. As a 23 year-old male who's only really in it for a marriage partner, there was much useful advice effectively distilled down from the game blogs like Roissy that cover mainly irrelevant (for me) pickup scenarios with good advice. Much of the material I had seen before but not distilled down into a long-term relationship/marriage format.

    As a(n attractive) white male living in Japan, speaking the language decently, and planning to stay long-term, it will be interesting to see how exactly some of the advice applies to my life situation (and especially in a different culture.) Bit of a bummer that every time I run into a nice Christian girl she lives hours away from here. Just gotta keep at it, I suppose.

  24. Yohami says:

    "don't tell women that because they feel righteous in cheating"

    Women feel righteous about everything until something explodes on their faces / they are put in their place and accountable.

    So, the best thing that could happen to this woman is to get an ugly divorce deal, lose the house, her savings, lose child custody, and have to pay alimony because SHE cheated.

    Eh, wait, wrong gender.

    Let her get away with it, and learn game to compete with the guy sticking it in her, please.

    No, right? lets just dump her then. Its over. Bye girl.

  25. Yohami says:

    "the guys out at bars can't get past my defenses."

    I can. And Im not alone. If you love your husband, dont go where I am.

  26. Anonymous says:

    @ Monica:

    You badly underestimate what alcohol can do to you. A really good PUA + alcohol can get through whatever defenses you have, which is why they run Game at bars, it's a lot easier. It's just a matter of the potential to a PUA you have.

    Also, I think there needs to be some specifics about the "problem" GNO. Going to a crowded bar = bad thing; going much of anywhere else = not a huge problem. It's the Alcohol + other men on the prowl that's a huge Red Flag. Going to a sit down place (heck, even Applebee's like places), isn't what the issue that's going around here. It's specifically "pick up bars" and going there. Going there without the significant other is a direct signal that you are available, even if you convince yourself otherwise.

    I used an analogue in another comment, for Men. If the Man in the relationship goes to a Strip Club with other guys once a month, you've set yourself up for a failed relationship. 3 drinks and a good looking stripper later, your relationship could easily cease to exist.

    When you create & allow scenarios, with full knowledge, that extremely scenario relationship disasters can occur, you are simply just playing the odds that it won't happen. And a 5 minute mistake can end years of work and ruin the lives of multiple people. Much like you wouldn't walk around with 1000 in cash, on display, in the area with the highest rate of robbery in the country. It's just stupidity to encourage behavior where disaster goes from "insanely unlikely" to "good chance" is stupid and there's no way to rationalize it away, unless you're holding onto it for other reasons.

  27. Badger says:

    "I've given it some more thought and for me GNOs still rate as a positive thing."

    Well then, we're all very glad you consider it as such. I'd like to ask what part of being married is consistent with going out to nightclubs. Is it cool for married men to make regular visits to strip clubs? (I say no.) If you want to live the single life, stay single.

    Monica is illustrating something that drives the manosphere batty – women deciding something is OK just because they say so.

    "Therapist said if the marriage was to continue I would have to forget about what happened and start a new relationship with wife from scratch again."

    Hell, if that's the case, just go get a new (younger hotter tighter) wife.

  28. Badger says:

    "Going to a sit down place (heck, even Applebee's like places), isn't what the issue that's going around here. It's specifically "pick up bars" and going there."

    Strictly speaking I think even this is a risk…any place that serves alcohol becomes a pickup location after 8pm, and an Applebee's type joint allows for a much softer approach because you don't think you are going to get picked up until it's too late.

  29. Anonymous says:

    @ Badger, per my 2:45 post.

    Something like Applebee's, to me, rates into the "who are they with & what are up to" category more than the "over our dead relationship". Though I can see a rule in a relationship of "To not be in any place with a "bar" without the other if any drinking is involved" working very well for both members. Then it's just a matter of the trust you each have of the other to uphold their side of the deal, but that's always true.

    Thinking about Applebee's, specifically, a little more, I realize I've eaten there with family enough that I'd forgotten it has a full Bar, as well. Maybe "Olive Garden = safe; any place with a Bar = start asking questions"? Good rule of thumb, definitely.

    Though, I do want to note that what started all of this from Athol definitely had the "dive bar" style outings. Those are pretty much saying the relationship isn't worth defending.

    There's also the side-issue of who the significant other is going out with. Friends matter a lot to maintaining relationships, as they can either enhance or badly undermine them. Another thing to be mindful of in relationships.

  30. Badger says:

    5:!8 – I'm not going to overcoach it and say Applebee's is a red flag location. However I do think women need to understand that wherever there are women, there's a good chance that pickup is going on; they need to have their guard up against "harmless flirting" wherever they go because attention+hamster+alcohol = trouble in River City.

    It sounds to me like it's the women on these threads who are insecure – they are arguing passionately for their right to go out and get leered at by other men, as if they want to "hedge" against their relationship.

  31. elhaf says:

    @Nathan, no offense but you really only know 100% that you didn't cheat. I'm not trying to religion-bash here, I'm just saying that the religious people are no better than the rest of us on that front.

  32. elhaf says:

    @Monica
    I agree with most of what others have said here, but I want to add, next time you do a GNO, suggest NOT a pickup joint. See how down your friends are for that. If they don't want to go, then you know the underlying intention of these nights out.

    Also, what does your husband think, honestly? I mean, make sure you ask him to choose, for example, between you going out dancing and you going bowling. Pry and get an honest response, don't bully him into your point of view. Otherwise, it sounds like you've made up your mind and his boundaries be damned.

  33. Jim Hollywood says:

    @ Monica — All relationships go through pressures no matter how hard the spouses try and no matter how much they love each other. I see the meat market GNOs as playing "just the tip". You say your defenses are tough. Why are you going then? You enjoy the defense obviously. The attention you get. Alcohol + Dopmamine + Oxytocin is incredibly powerful. To claim that you are the exception and could never fail is very naive. Maybe the fail is that you find someone who is very attractive and really great to talk to. So you give him your number …….
    Then you start having private interactions and secrets. Harmless …

    If your husband was watching you on these GNOs how would he feel? How would you feel if you knew he was watching? Not trying to be creepy. He probably would have some concerns. It would not be as exciting for you because that is the point. Other men but no husband. So by going to the meat market you reduce the guys concern for Approach Anxiety because the husband is kept away. You have a false sense of reduced Isolation Anxiety because you are with a pack of girls. Wow. This sounds like a mating ritual to me. Single behavior.

    I used to feel the same way as you. I learned we have to not put ourselves into vulnerable situations. This may sound cliche but for some of us anyway, our body and our minds are not free for us to just give away. We can say our spouse does not own us. But I say that marriage is a partnership and that there indeed is a mutual ownership of the relationship and before we put ourselves at risk it requires both partners. So again why are we entertaining other men without the husband?

  34. Anonymous says:

    The problem with being ok with a place like Applebees, is that if your wife is disloyal enough to cheat, she is likely disloyal enough to lie about going to Applebees and go to the bar instead.

  35. Monica says:

    Yikes. Looks like I've unintentionally struck a nerve so I feel like I need to explain my typical GNO scenario. Every time I go out I go with my best girlfriend and we go to restaurants and bars with her crew of friends which usually includes other females, her brother and his guy friends. I adore her brother in a brotherly sort of way and none of his friends come anywhere close to flipping any of my switches. They're funny and fun to hang with but I've got no, zip, zilch interest in any of them. So while I'm out I'm surrounded by a group of guys I have no interest in that play a good role as cockblockers while we help them with the whole peacocking thing.

    Also – and this is pretty important – my husband is invited to come along anytime he wants to. He just isn't interested. He's the least possessive man I've ever been with and he's the man I trust the most. That's my thing – no one can get close to me unless I trust them and trust takes a really long time to build.

    knightblaster -

    But in part you are there for their validation, yes?

    No, I'm not. I go out because I need and enjoy the adult interaction. I work from home and it's a fairly isolating experience for someone as social as I am. Sure, it's flattering when some guys find me attractive but I'm not going out looking for that type of validation, no. It's my husband's validation that is really important to me.

    Is it then also okay for your partner to seek validation from women…

    My husband isn't much of a going out type of guy but he does work at a University where he's surrounded by 18 – 22 year old females everyday – year after year.
    I know he's been attracted to other women but I'm not aware if he's actually looked for validation from them.

    Why actively engage temptation? For the shits and giggles?

    That's the thing – I don't feel tempted. The men I've had attractions to while I've been married were men I got to know really well through work.

    I have to head to the gym. I'll respond to the other comments later.

    Monica Moncrief-Rogers
    Project Lead
    CSC

    Austin, TX
    Financial Services Sector | p: +1-512-989-5911 | mmoncri2@csc.com | http://www.csc.com

    This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery.
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  36. Monica says:

    Yikes. Looks like I've unintentionally struck a nerve so I feel like I need to explain my typical GNO scenario. Every time I go out I go with my best girlfriend and we go to restaurants and bars with her crew of friends which usually includes other females, her brother and his guy friends. I adore her brother in a brotherly sort of way and none of his friends come anywhere close to flipping any of my switches. They're funny and fun to hang with but I've got no, zip, zilch interest in any of them. So while I'm out I'm surrounded by a group of guys I have no interest in that play a good role as cockblockers while we help them with the whole peacocking thing.

    Also – and this is pretty important – my husband is invited to come along anytime he wants to. He just isn't interested. He's the least possessive man I've ever been with and he's the man I trust the most. That's my thing – no one can get close to me unless I trust them and trust takes a really long time to build.

    knightblaster -

    But in part you are there for their validation, yes?

    No, I'm not. I go out because I need and enjoy the adult interaction. I work from home and it's a fairly isolating experience for someone as social as I am.
    Sure, it's flattering when some guys find me attractive but I'm not going out looking for that type of validation, no. It's my husband's validation that is really important to me.

    Is it then also okay for your partner to seek validation from women…

    My husband isn't much of a going out type of guy but he does work at a University where he's surrounded by 18 – 22 year old females everyday – year after year.
    I know he's been attracted to other women but I'm not aware if he's actually looked for validation from them.

    Why actively engage temptation? For the shits and giggles?

    That's the thing – I don't feel tempted. The men I've had attractions to while I've been married were men I got to know really well through work.

    I have to head to the gym. I'll respond to the other comments later.il for such purpose.

  37. Jim Hollywood says:

    @ Monica — The fact your husband is invited is significant. Are you saying that you are not engaging in drinking, flirting and dancing with other men? I am going to discount the brother and his friends for the sake of this question. Just trying to get a scope of what it is your defining as a GNO for you.

  38. Monica says:

    @Jim: I drink beer. Slowly. I am my own designated driver so I have to keep my wits. What do you consider flirting? I talk and laugh with guys – but that is mostly with the guys that are within our group. If I want to go dancing I go to gay bars. No way would I dance with a straight guy out at a club.

  39. Monica says:

    @Badger:

    Monica is illustrating something that drives the manosphere batty – women deciding something is OK just because they say so.

    Oh, come on. I looked at the question re: GNOs, reflected on what happens when I go out and made an assessment for my situation. It's not as if I declared a decree. I am open to being convinced that my assessment may be wrong or even naive.

  40. Jim Hollywood says:

    @ Monica — Thanks for indulging my questions! I get it.

  41. Athol Kay says:

    Monica – Going out on a limb….

    The real risk to your husband is your best friend's brother. You know he wants you. All it would take is giving him an opening and your husband would never know until it was all far too late.

    I'm not saying you're a whore, or would do it. Just saying that the opportunity is innate to the situation. A husbands trust tends to be of the Humpty Dumpty ilk.

    Please be careful.

  42. Monica says:

    @Athol:

    The real risk to your husband is your best friend's brother.

    Wow. Didn't see that one coming.

    You know he wants you.

    Uh no. I don't know that at all. I've never even considered it.

    I'm not saying you're a whore..

    No, I didn't think u were

    Just saying that the opportunity is innate to the situation

    THIS! Now this I get. I know that my weakness would be for guys I know and are fond of.

    Please be careful

    I'm trying. He's worth it. It's why I bothered to analyze the GNO thing.

  43. Anonymous says:

    @Monica

    I will side with the guys in this one, it looks like you are not actively pursuing it but why it has to be a bar for adult interaction? I mean you can open a book club, or a movie night with adults in other people houses or even in a library. Your husband being invited was a good sign the first times you went out, now you know he will never dream of going on and like you say you tend to fall for people you get to know, and you are getting to know this guys, who already know you too…see where this might go?

    I only have on girlfriend that cheated on her husband (thank goodness) and everything started innocent and harmless "adult interaction as well" but I had tons of cad friends whose favorite pray was the already committed woman, all it takes is some alcohol, a fight with the hubby or the beau (or he forgetting something like picking up the trash for the 1000 time) and a couple of lines and you will wake up feeling dirty and horrible but after doing something you can't undo.

    I mean I don't know you and I don't mean to insult you, but cheating is like fire it needs three elements: willingness, opportunity and fuel and I think of those all opportunity is probably the most dangerous one.
    So please be careful, we don't want Athol to get all depressed again right? ;)

    S.R. (Stephenie Rowling)

  44. Athol Kay says:

    Monica – "Uh no. I don't know that at all. I've never even considered it."

    But he has. I can assure you of that. Why do you think he cockblocks guys hitting on you?

  45. Anonymous says:

    Badger: hedging: whoah! You figured it out! See? Men really do understand women! Sometimes better than they themselves do! I never consciously thought about it, but when I read it, I knew. I'm a recovering insecure woman. And as soon as I start feeling insecure, I start checking my options, just in case he dumps me. In a bad relationship, he doesn't pick up on it or calls it bullshit and it's left unchecked. Put me in a GNO situation after being told to suck it up and stop being so insecure, and i'm a prime game target.

    Ph, the confessions of a rationalization hamster…. my bf just doesn't understand me… but you hulling bulk of man, you sure do! Pay attention to meeeeee!!!

  46. Athol Kay says:

    Stephenie – "So please be careful, we don't want Athol to get all depressed again right? ;) "

    LMAO.

  47. Jim Hollywood says:

    @ Monica — I was biting my tongue earlier and hoping Athol chimed in because that was my feeling as well. You seem like a very nice and intelligent person and without crossing a boundary you would be the type person that I should not spend time with in a bar. Take that as a complement. So I have little doubt that the brother would be interested unless he was an idiot. It just takes the bad timing mentioned above to fail. No doubt your husband knows he has someone special. He is probably special too. So yes be careful. Consider the risk versus reward of what you are doing and with whom. Take care.

  48. Monica says:

    @SR:

    … and you are getting to know this guys, who already know you too…see where this might go?

    I've known this guy for almost 13 years and he's younger than I am. I think he's great and all and I'm sure he'll be a great catch for some other girl – it just won't be me.

    …I don't mean to insult you

    I don't feel insulted

    …cheating is like fire it needs three elements: willingness, opportunity and fuel and I think of those all opportunity is probably the most dangerous one

    I have to disagree. I think willingness is far more dangerous than opportunity. If I was willing I'd find an opportunity.

  49. Anonymous says:

    Monica's point is that not all women are like that. She's an exception.

    Everyone else's point is that…

    Oh wait.

  50. Monica says:

    @Athol:

    But he has. I can assure you of that.

    Ugh. This bothers me. It brings up the whole topic of whether or not men and women can be friends.

    Why do you think he cockblocks guys hitting on you?

    I thought it was because he knew I was married and uninterested.

  51. Jim Hollywood says:

    Well, maybe this blog has helped. IF by some miracle something does feel a little funny down the road she will no doubt remember. We can only trust not after the fact. Lets give her some credit for knowing not to be dancing with the wolves. Then again, I am just a twerp who loves his wonderful wife and thankful she does not do this type of GNO. I am also half way through Athol's book and wishing I knew half this stuff ten years ago. Thanks Athol.

  52. Monica says:

    @Anon

    Monica's point is that not all women are like that. She's an exception.

    I don't consider myself an exception – I just don't fall for bar game. I have weaknesses when it comes to men. I am a woman after all. I didn't get a free pass on basic instincts. But I have to like someone a lot to feel a strong enough attraction to them that it could pose a danger to my marriage. And, I don't take men at bars seriously.

  53. Anonymous says:

    @Monica
    I meant opportunity for normal people, cheaters are experts on creating the rest of the conditions but for a normal person most of the time they are not conscious about the willingness till the opportunity arises, then is too late.
    I mean how many women relate going to a place just to hang and feeling an overwhelming attraction for a guy and end up in bed with him, no planning involved at all "it felt right" "I had no idea what I was thinking" "this is so wrong but it feels so right"?
    Again I'm not saying you are the type, but if it happens to other human females, it can happen to any human females.
    And I'm just saying this because after many years hearing the same story over and over again. I have to believe is more common than many people would thing off, YMMV.

    Stephenie Rowling

  54. Monica says:

    @Jim:

    This blog, Athol's book, and a few other spots in the manosphere have been great resources.

    I'm more aware of myself and more in tune with my behavior than I've probably ever been. If in the future I develop a strong attraction to someone I plan to reread Athol's post "How To Purposely Fall Out Of Love As Quickly As Possible." Because, I'm REALLY not looking for someone else. I want a good life with my husband.

  55. elhaf says:

    Dang, Athol, now you're the Dad of this group that everyone's looking not to disappoint! Congrats on passing the 50 comment mark. This blog deserves to grow and be seen.

  56. Athol Kay says:

    LOL I'm the Dad. Maybe. I was hoping for the dirty uncle vibe. :-)

  57. pdwalker says:

    Monica said…Ugh. This bothers me. It brings up the whole topic of whether or not men and women can be friends.

    It's tough. For men, it almost inevitably ends up becoming attraction, and then hopefully…sex.

    Friendship with a woman is a terrible temptation, especially if you've had a bad spot with your missus.

    In my opinion.

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