When It’s Good, But Not Great…

I’ve had a lot of email recently around the issue of…
“I’ve read MMSL and put it into practice and everything is a lot better. We are getting on great and we are having more sex than before, but it’s still not enough and she doesn’t seem to be wildly turned on by me or initiating sex yet. I’m in the best shape of my life, and other women are paying attention to me. I don’t want to ruin what I have, but it’s not enough. What do I do?”
The short answer is women respond positively to a dominant male sexual approach, so you start actively doing that to get the sexual response you want.
The long answer is you’ve maxed out your Sex Rank and have reached a holding pattern in Phase Three. So it’s good, but not great. She hasn’t had that moment of catharsis where she suddenly realizes what she has and starts cascading back into feeling in love with you. You haven’t quite given her that moment where she panics and thinks she might lose you if she doesn’t up her game. You haven’t quite pushed that the balance of power in the relationship has switched from her to you.
At some point you have to get into Phase Four and give her the fair warning and say what it is you want. In short, you have “The Talk”. You say what you want, and offer a solution to have it happen. Quite possibly you’ve already had the talk and said what you want, but softened it too much with a weak presentation. If you say you are unhappy because of the sexual lack, but sound completely calm and accommodating when you say it, it won’t be viewed as a serious concern.
You have to put some emotion behind it.
You have to sound emotionally torn between “I want you” and “I need this”. Your needs are greater than your wants, but your want is for her to meet your need. When you married her, it was because she wanted to meet your need, and you wanted to meet her needs. You have been meeting her needs, but she’s stopped wanting to meet yours. You can’t make her want you… so you are at a painful impasse.
You’re both crazy for her, and rational about her.
The risk is that she might not go for it and realize what she has and become more attentive to you. She might just withdraw from you. So in a sense, pushing to Phase Four is a game of double or nothing. If life in Phase Three was just the best it’s been in a long time, risking Phase Four isn’t going to be quite so appealing.
The good news is that if you’ve really done the work of The MAP through Phase One, Two and Three, you’re very likely going to be taken seriously by her. A male 8 doing the emotionally charged talk to a female 7 that he’s unhappy in the relationship and wants some specific and doable changes to get her up to an 8, will get her full attention and likely compliance. A male 6 telling a female 7 the same set of requests will get a look of annoyance at best and dumped at worst. “You want me to step up to an 8 for your crappy 6 self? Go fuck yourself!”
But let’s be honest. Pushing to Phase Four can be scary as hell. The better your Sex Rank, the better your odds…
(start at 1:20)
…but they are only increased odds.
 

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Comments

  1. Joost says:

    By the way Athol,
    you can link directly to a moment of time in an embedded youtube video. It took me a little digging to figure it out, but you can just append the string "&start=X" to the end of the url (with X being the offset in seconds.)

    The code for the above video would look like this:

    src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KiLP6-fL6mY?rel=0&start=80"

  2. Athol Kay says:

    Thanks! Very nice.

  3. Anonymous says:

    I was going to post a comment on the submissive thread, but this post ties in with what I want to say.

    "I've read MMSL and put it into practice and everything is a lot better. We are getting on great and we are having more sex than before, but it's still not enough and she doesn't seem to be wildly turned on by me or initiating sex yet."

    Your expectations are unrealistic, be satisfied with the great sex that you have. Some women will never initiate no matter what you do. It is just not in their nature. Something else that you overlook is her libido.. Most women's libidos do not match those of their husbands.

    Sorry to say that women (particularly after they have had their kids) often do not think about sex on a daily basis as many men do.. They are less likely to initiate as a result.. They just don't crave it like men do..

    I have spoken to so many women over the years that really do not give a toss whether they have sex or not.. Others who fake orgasm(and the husband never knows) and still others who have never achieved orgasm.

    continue, below

  4. Anonymous says:

    am fortunate in that I do have a very high libido. And, whereas many a woman's libido drops off after having kids, mine increased and the sex got better and better.

    I believe that this was in part due to the fact that we hardly ever went anywhere(we have an autistic son)We couldn't go fishing or camping or away on holidays etc.. So the only thing that we really had that we could do and enjoy and become closer as a result.. was sex.. That was our time to ourselves. Our little bit of heaven..

    Now our son goes away one weekend a month and goes on outings with carers a couple of times a week, so we do have more time to other things together..But sex is still our favourite pastime together. :D

    Now to the submisive part. I frequently initiate because it is in my own interests(I want sex)My husband has a business and during the week is often in his office of an evening drawing plans etc.. Now if I did not go in there and pleasantly distract him for awhile, I would most probably get nothing.. I am already up for it (I have been thinking about it) so if he is really busy it may only be a quickie.Fine by me.

    He knows now that I will initiate during the week, and it really suits him. Not having to go to all the trouble of getting me in the mood saves a lot of time.. He initiates on weekends and when the kids are away..

    Every so often he will surprise me (and vice versa) This works well for us

    A woman that does have an average libido can put herself in the mood if she really makes an effort, I think..Deliberately thinking about sex during the day with hubby, and what she is gonna do.. This will put her in the mood.. I send suggestive texts as well (Some women baulk at this)Nothing a a husband likes better than a wife who sends explicit messages telling him what he has to look forward too that evening.. It is as Thag said in the previous post about submissiveness all to do with imagination..

    Too many women just get caught up in other aspects of their lives and neglect the intimate side with their husbands.

    It can be a lot of fun too. Even when the kids are awake a little bit of planning can pay dividends. I have put my son in the shower(he loves his showers) whilst my daughter has been watching a dvd at the other end of the house and dragged hubby off to the bedroom for ten minutes.. See, that in itself is exciting.. Anticipation and planning are a real turn on for me.. As for hubby (which is how most men are) I can turn him on like a tap. ;)

    Women also need to block out all outside noises and distractions.. Forget about what thay have to cook for dinner that night. Focus completely on hubby and pleasuring one another.

    That was also another turning point for me.. I taught myself to block out everything else. Everything! Even when the phone rang in the middle of it, I never skipped a beat.

    I never in my wildest dreams would have thought that the sex could have gotten any better, but it has..

    The brain is the greatest sex organ.. And, women are most definitely responsible for their own orgasms.. They have to want to make the effort themselves, and for their husbands.

    Kathy

  5. Anonymous says:

    I think if anyone wants to add or take their sex life over the top they should use toys. Sex between my partner and I was good and each time getting better. But toys really helped to make it GREAT. Purchasing toys is fun, arousing, and CHEAP. We found out a lot about each other whiile doing so. I'm not really comfortable going into sex stores. I have before though but never got anything because of the prices. Anyways if you want to make it more exciting get some toys, you'll have plenty of fun(both of you). We usually get our toys from http://www.fantasyfunland.com

  6. Thag Jones says:

    Toys. Pfft. Purchasing them is not arousing, it's just corny. It's really a matter of taste. I am not a big fan of sex toys and actually find the whole idea of them a bit off. No, I am not a prude in bed, I just think toys are for children and that sex is about two people coming together to please each other, not using any means available to get one's rocks off. Is it just me or is there a lot of "me me me" here? No wonder y'all have shitty sex lives!

  7. Thag Jones says:

    Another thing, if your wife is harping at you to bring her to orgasm, she needs to STFU and just enjoy the rogering and not worry so much about whether she has an orgasm or not. Too much focus on an end goal is ruining things. It should be sex for its own sake, not a selfish goal. If there are orgasms, great! If not, also great, because we're talking about unitive marital sex – that and procreation is what sex is for, not "you must please me or I will close the hairy clam and act like a bitch".

    Look, I have NEVER orgasmed from intercourse, yet, I love sex. This whole schtick about orgasm is over blown (lol). When I am focussing on that aspect, the sex is crap. When I am just enjoying having sex for its own sake, it's fantastic and it really doesn't matter if I have an orgasm or not. And it's no fun having a man worrying about my orgasm, frankly. It's more pressure than I need and detracts from the act.

  8. Anonymous says:

    "I've read MMSL and put it into practice and everything is a lot better. We are getting on great and we are having more sex than before, but it's still not enough and she doesn't seem to be wildly turned on by me or initiating sex yet."

    Athol – I am curious. Is there no line where the husband's hopes become unrealistic? For example, is it fair for him to be working up to 7 x per week, thinking that if she doesn't get there with him he is justified in putting on the heat (implying divorce)?

    Only the captain decides? Is 14 x per week asking too much? : )

  9. Thag Jones says:

    Don't judge your manhood by her ability to orgasm; it's totally counter-productive and will result is her having less attraction for you and you having an even worse sex life.

    The focus on numbers is all wrong. You'll get more sex if your relationship is good. It's not only for the captain to decide but you both have to treat each other's body with respect, not just using each other for your own ends. If you have equal access – i.e. no bumping back unless there's a good reason – then it should work better. It's also not a bad idea to take occasional breaks, although that doesn't seem to be a popular idea around here. I just can't imagine going at it every single day without pause. I'm afraid I find that a little weird. A bit of daily play maybe, but not necessarily full on intercourse.

    Women need to take some of the responsibility here too. The more you jump through her hoops, the less respect she will have for you, and no woman gets wet looking at a man she doesn't respect. At the same time, unreasonable demands makes you an asshole, and although asshole game might work on sluts, most women don't want to be married to an asshole.

  10. Thag Jones says:

    Women need to stop putting up so many hoops for a man to jump through and just put out a bit more, is what I meant there. Not meaning to put it all on the man, but figured it's mostly men who read here. Still, as a woman, I'm telling you guys that she has to have respect for you or it's not going to work. But she may need to soften her heart a bit too, by the sounds of some of these things I read on this part of the 'sphere.

  11. Julia says:

    Thag: my goodness, you sound stressed! Might I recommend the Hitachi Magic Wand? (c'mon laugh!) It can help any woman get a good buzz, and orgasm is a great stress reliever. I bet Athol would agree with me there. It also helps bond a couple; some of that "unitive" thing you mention — we're in our third decade of marriage and we are bonded like Loctite Super Glue.

    Thing is, the guys would get more sex/orgasms if the Ms. is getting hers too. It gets mighty tiresome to fake orgasms and some women have been doing that for years, they've already been STFUing and that's not conducive to a happy relationship. Just putting out grows resentment; would you also advise a man to just enjoy the rogering even if he never has an orgasm? Bet ya wouldn't!

  12. GC says:

    Husbands, while you are working on alpha-beta balance and related changes, be sure to align your beta activities with your goal. If your primary goal is that you and your wife will have great sex, then focus your beta energy on things that will help you achieve that goal. For example, if you're outside washing your wife's car (a nice enough beta activity) while she's inside feeding and bathing three little kids and putting them to bed, you're probably expending beta energy in the wrong place. I know it's hard for husbands to understand this, but you must grasp it – fatigue and stress rob your wife of energy for sex. This is reality, so accept it and deal with it. So if your goal is more and better sex, focus your beta activities on things that will help her to be more rested and less stressed.

  13. Thag Jones says:

    LOL Julia. I didn't say anything about faking, though. I just said that too much focus on the Big O is distracting and for me at least, not my primary concern. I f I want an orgasm that bad I can give myself one, but I can't very well roger myself.

    I'll pass on the Hitachi wand though. I'm really not that stressed right now, just a little PMSy. ;)

  14. Athol Kay says:

    Athol – I am curious. Is there no line where the husband's hopes become unrealistic? For example, is it fair for him to be working up to 7 x per week, thinking that if she doesn't get there with him he is justified in putting on the heat (implying divorce)?

    Only the captain decides? Is 14 x per week asking too much? : )

    THe issue is usually that they are missing a certain sexual element they want, and believe simply getting more sex will meet that need.

    The husband that wants her to initiate for example will never be truly happy with simply more sex that he has to start. Even if it's a lot more sex.

  15. Anonymous says:

    Another anon chiming in here, (yeah, yeah, maybe I'll make an account, someday :) .
    One scenario to consider in this is that the guy may just not be on the same page as his wife when it comes to sex. This could be mismatched sex-drives, mismatched goals for the outcome of the act, bad communication, or heck, he could just be a lousy lover!
    Or to say it differently, if everything outside the sex is going well, and the sex frequency is good, then her never initiating could mean nothing at all or it could mean that some more direct and heart-felt communication about the act itself is needed.

  16. Anonymous says:

    Quoth Athol:
    "THe issue is usually that they are missing a certain sexual element they want, and believe simply getting more sex will meet that need.

    The husband that wants her to initiate for example will never be truly happy with simply more sex that he has to start. Even if it's a lot more sex. "

    Sex is on the bottom rung of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
    Sexual intimacy is higher up.

    You can't get to sexual intimacy until sex needs are met any more than you can seek world peace when you've got to pee.

    Anon446

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