The Three Day Rule For Guests

Comment on Sister Wives yesterday….
Kind of off topic but had to post about how a “Friend’s” relationship just went down. I was perusing Facebook and noticed that a male friend had changed their status to in a relationship but complicated (and this was not with his wife). I scanned back a few months to see how it played out. July: Mutual female friend of couple moved in with them (not exactly sure why). Both husband and wife were accommodating it appears as this was a good friend. Less than one month later he posts, Went from Married to It’s Complicated with wife. Less than two months later he updates to It’s Complicated with new girl….the same one that moved in less than four months ago. Nice…that is why you never let someone of either sex move in with you and your spouse…it had disaster written all over it.
Athol: The Three Day Rule strikes again!
The Three Day Rule: Anytime a third wheel visits with a couple, after three days permission is granted by default to the opposite sex spouse to start having sex with the third wheel.
The reason this happens is because before the third wheel moves in with the couple, both the third wheel and the opposite sex spouse decide whether or not they want to have sex with the other. This can happen consciously or unconsciously. Neither one of them will approve the move unless they have a positive sexual interest in the other.
Then once the third wheel moves in, the sexual intentions are already essentially stated and then they just play out as expected. Two opposite sex adults sexually interested in each other, left alone in a house, with an alibi that explains why they are there together. It would be bizarre if they didn’t start fucking each other.
The key tip off to all of this is the woman’s Isolation Anxiety. A woman will have a serious concern about ever being truly isolated with a man she does not have sexual attraction to. A private date in a crowded restaurant isn’t being truly isolated for this purpose, there’s no risk the man is going to try and pin her down and have his way with her there. Alone with him in a house, with no expectation of a spouse returning for several hours, that really is being alone, so there is a risk of him trying something she couldn’t stop.
So in the case of a woman moving in with a couple, at some point she will be completely isolated in the house with the husband. So if she’s at all creeped out by him, she will refuse the offer of moving in with the couple. If she’s attracted to the husband, she’ll be willing to move in with them.
When it’s a man moving in with a couple, at some point the wife will be completely isolated in the house with the man. If that creeps her out at all, she will refuse to have him move in. If she’s attracted to him, she’ll allow him to move in.
For the men in these situations, they are simply wired to take advantage of opportunistic sex when it’s presented to them on a platter. Isolation with a woman attracted to them just gets their dopamine output shooting through the roof to try and get to have sex. They might not even have a major interest in her when she moves in, but within three days they will be getting physically primed to pounce at a moments notice.
So it’s a kind of perfect storm. It’s so relentlessly predictable that the sex happens that you are simply idiotic to allow someone to move in with you. Then the double betrayal and mortifying sense of foolishness is frequently so overwhelming that emotional collapse and leaving your own home in a daze is not uncommon.
So anyway, understanding this rule is good for two things. (1) Saving your marriage, and (2) it doubles as a no freeloaders clause.
Oh and by all means do have unattached guests stay over. Just make sure you “hang out and enjoy having your friend over”, a.k.a. “cockblock”. And enjoy the unusually-intense-sex-together-as-a-couple-for-no- stated-reason while they stay over with you. Also when we have guests staying over, I purposely make the headboard hit the wall because I’m an asshole.
Jennifer: I admit I was seriously naive about this rule and had considered taking in a friend a few years ago. Athol smiled at me and said, “Sure! I don’t mind fucking her.”  I thought he was rude and uncaring at the time. Now it seems quite sweet of him to have done that.
 

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Comments

  1. petesgamethoughts says:

    Caveat: If the woman is obese, the wife does not have to worry about the husband sleeping with her. Unless the guy has a thing for fat chicks :/

  2. Candice says:

    Sounds pretty dismal if you cannot trust your partner alone with someone otherwise trustworthy. I'd also like to say agreeing to someone staying may merely mean you judge them as trustworthy.

    I'd not recommend sharing your home for another reason – having a non-nuclear family member present is a barrier to bonding as a couple and family and also to feeing totally free in your home.

  3. Looking Glass says:

    It's simply playing with fire, especially if they're reasonably attractive.

    Most affairs are based off proximity or easy access, more than anything else. That's why it's a major risk.

    Much stronger relationships and those with higher moral character can survive more, but *everyone* can be broken down, given time and the "grass is always green" fallacy we all fall into.

  4. Anonymous says:

    Athol, I wonder about your thoughts are about men with very high SMV and cheating. Naturally I attracted girls in the 8-9 range because I think I am a 7-8 in terms of looks myself and through personality went up a notch or two. After discovering game, doing a lot of mental work, being headed towards a prestigous carrer, inheriting great wealth and some other stuff that helps my value I seem to have reached the lower level 10s. My market value will certainly only improve in the years ahead. What scares me is that I will be getting clear signs of interest and now and then blunt offers from very attractive women for many years after I hopefully get married to a lovely woman. I think the manosphere have taught me what I need to make the relationship happy but my understanding is that women are faithfull in good relationships but men with options tend to stray even when they are in happy relationships because their strategy is more about variety. I have met women who say they would let me sleep with others but I don`t think I have any interest in that. I think it would mess with my mind and my attraction to my wife. Coupled with some alpha I have strong beta traits and feel very drawn to the pairbonding part and feelings of a relationship. I don`t know if I really have a desire to stray so much. I have deceided to look for a wife 7-12 years younger or so in part to make sure she remains very good looking realtive to the wives of men my age and in my groupe of friends. I think that would help me keep myself in line. I also donĀ“t belive in a never settle look for perfection attitude. My belief is rather to look for something very good or at least good and stay with that even if something clearly better comes a long because of the long term. Any advice?

  5. Anonymous says:

    I think that you'd have to be low on self control, basic moral values and common sense if you sleep with a house guest. The people who would do this probably can't be trusted to be faithful under any number of normal circumstances. They'd probably cheat on a business trip, or with someone that they worked with. It's less about having a guest in your house and more about whether or not you married a low life.

  6. The Anti-Gnostic says:

    Anonymous:

    Read the lives of holy monks and nuns. To maintain their chastity, they follow extremely cumbersome and complex rules on interactions with the opposite sex, even monks who are quite elderly.

    Looking Glass is right: proximity + even low-level attraction is just asking for it. This is yet another reason why letting women have equal access to the workplace is a social disaster.

  7. Anonymous says:

    "Most affairs are based off proximity or easy access, more than anything else. That's why it's a major risk"

    How do any of you lot deal with your partner actually having a JOB where they spend time with other people?! Or do you all live on little isolated farmsteads where you're totally self-sufficient and don't need to interact other than to grunt at the postman once a day?

  8. ironchefoklahoma says:

    @Anonymous@1:36

    There is a tad bit of difference between two adults and a crowded, public workspace…and two adults alone with a comfy bed and a shower in the next room.

    We don't allow children to play with matches or snakes. We shouldn't allow adults to play with temptation.

    I understand your outrage…but you're working from a model of human behavior that is simply incorrect. We live in a fallen world and there is no good reason for placing temptation in front of imperfect people. And we're all imperfect.

  9. Anonymous says:

    People can easily go and screw in a pay-per-hour hotel or even in the back of a car, so don't say there's no opportunity. "Living in a fallen world"? Are you real?

  10. Anonymous says:

    It also depends to a degree on the ethics and the respect of the 3rd wheel for the couple's relationship. Some years ago, I lived with a very good friend and his wife when I needed a crash pad for a few months. His wife was attractive, but the friend and I had been friends for a very long time and there was just no way I would step on him by sleeping with his wife. In other words, I valued my friendship above the opportunity to score.

  11. Eric says:

    @Anonymous 2:59PM

    I agree, and I think in most cases if you have thoughtful ethical people involved, you aren't going to have any problems. But sometimes you will… sometimes thoughtful and ethical people just fall short of their own morality. Therefore, inviting a third party to live in your home is *always* an increased risk. With that said, you have to weigh risks. The chances of your partner cheating go up every time they walk out the front door without you. You can't worry about every little thing, and sometimes having good friends come stay with you for awhile offers a reward that clearly outweighs the risk.

    I also think it makes a substantial difference in the mindset of all involved whether the third wheel is at your home for a determined amount of time (aka, staying for a week long visit) vs. if they have moved in with you for an open-ended amount of time. The feeling of being a guest in someone's commands a sense of propriety that may be lessened if you feel like that home has become your home.

  12. MGL says:

    Just found your blog and enjoying the specific advice and tips that you offer. We've been interviewing guys for our site for the last year and a half and posting daily videos of their responses, thought you might be itnerested to hear what they have to say.

  13. Bellita says:

    There's a Muslim proverb that goes, "When an unmarried man and woman are alone together, the devil makes a third."

    (I admit that when I googled to check the exact wording, the qualifier "unmarried" didn't seem to be in the original text, but as that's the way it's commonly applied, that's the way I wrote it.)

  14. Anonymous says:

    There's and old proverb that says
    Aye diddly aye-tie, shit or bust, never let your bollocks dangle in the dust" as well, but what does that prove?

  15. Anonymous says:

    I agree that this is generally not a good idea, and not for long periods of time. But you seem to assume that people always operate out of their base animal instincts. I think that some people operate out of a moral/ethical/religious point of view. Which means that they would not sleep with their brother's wife, sister's husband, etc. under any circumstances.

  16. Bellita says:

    @5:35
    Since it's probably not a good thing to let your you-know-whats dangle in the dust either, I don't know what magnificent point you think you've made.

  17. Anonymous says:

    I have an opposite sex house guest and I cannot wait for the idiot to leave. My husband begged me because he's a superior to him at work and he's moving in two weeks to another state. He's also married and completely unattractive to me.

  18. Anonymous says:

    @Anonymous October 13, 2011 5:42 PM

    I am a man. I am very uncomfortable when *ANY* unaccompanied female stays over night at my house. My wife's sister. My brother's wife. My wife's best married friend. I don't care. I have been married for 24 years, love my wife. She's very hot. But I still refuse to put myself in any situation where I could be tempted to put my marriage in jeopardy. My wife works in the corporate world as do I. We both agree that even the strongest among us can be led astray by circumstance. We both get asked to happy hours by co-workers all the time. We always refuse.

    All those folks out there who are just appalled that anyone could even imagine sleeping with someone outside the marriage under any circumstance are very naive. If everyone had the willpower to always do the right thing, there would be no obesity, alcoholism, drug addiction, infidelity, etc etc.

  19. Standup Guy says:

    Athol, Love the quote on page 136 of the book: "the house is a mess and my vagina is angry at you".

    Nicely done.

  20. Athol Kay says:

    I agree that this is generally not a good idea, and not for long periods of time. But you seem to assume that people always operate out of their base animal instincts. I think that some people operate out of a moral/ethical/religious point of view. Which means that they would not sleep with their brother's wife, sister's husband, etc. under any circumstances.

    I do assume that. It's proved to be a far more accurate prediction of human sexual behavior than what people say their morals are.

  21. Looking Glass says:

    Anon 8:28 has it correct: it puts you everyone in a very rough situation. It becomes a risk. When a marriage is always 3 drinks and a willing interloper away from an Affair, you have to take a certain level of precautions.

    Putting two adults, who could easily be physically attracted to each other, in a confined area for an extend period of time, it's a good bet they'll eventually have sex. Why is this general insight any different when one or both parties are married? You also can't ignore that attraction "builds up" over certain types of interactions, which a guest staying at in home is likely to see more of those useful ones.

    This isn't to say it's an assurance, but the risk is not Zero and it increases over time, especially if the relationship has any major stresses. You add a sudden, unknown and potentially destabilizing force into the mix. You are then playing with fire, better be suited up.

  22. Anacaona says:

    Totally approve this advice 100% most of my cheater friends started innocently giving rides to women they liked (proximity is indeed a b*tch), yes is like a domino effect one day she is sitting watching TV alone while the wife is at work you sit because you both like the same show and magically your penis is going to be inside her. If I had a dollar for every time I saw an affair coming and being right…

  23. The MacNut says:

    And it almost always happens the quickest to those who claim it could NEVER happen to them, that their morals are "too strong" to give in, etc, etc. Then they're laying naked next to their affair partner in shock wondering how could they do that???

    IMO, the ones least likely to succumb to affairs are those who recognize it COULD happen to them, and who therefore take precautions, like the monks and nuns mentioned above, to reduce the likelihood of it happening. Because, as also mentioned above, we ARE imperfect and weak, and our animal instincts have a stronger influence that we give them credit for.

  24. Candice says:

    After thinking on the comments here I have concluded that people are indeed very different and that they view life through the lense of their own experience.

    Some people are aroused by certain situations (such as merely living with someone) and some are not. Some have a great deal of self-control and some do not.

    I always wondered why people went on about being 'weak' and the 'wondering how could that happen' thing. Obviously some people get so wound up they have sex without rationally deciding to do so (and without using the condom) – or so it would seem from the comments. However, for others, like myself, who are driven more by logic, there is very little chance of spontaneous sex. I could also list some men of high integrity and huge self-control who I trust completely. ANYWAY, for me the task has been to understand other people may be more spontaneous and less controlled than myself or my close friends.

    Thus, rather than rely on stereotypes and assumptions we should know ourselves and our partner and act accordingly.

    Someone who has a high libido and crushes easily may appreciate not facing temptation. On the other hand, someone else may be deeply insulted if treated the same way.

    ….and another thing … what a person thinks of others often reflects their own experiences and feelings … you need to respect what they are telling you in an indirect way.

  25. Anonymous says:

    Presumably, anyone who you let in your house is equally likely to rob you blind too, since they won't be able to resist the temptation to make off with the computer, DVD player, TV etc?

  26. Ted F. says:

    There is no biological desire to steal a DVD player. There is a biological desire to have sex and reproduce.

    Look, humans are intelligent creatures that can rise above their animal nature. That doesn't mean that the animal nature doesn't steer them along the way. Or that sometimes the animal nature just overwhelms the intelligence being used to control it.

    I know it isn't very popular among people that believe they control their own destiny or whatever. But the truth is our biology drives us, even when we aren't aware of it. The best we can do is BE aware of it when it happens, and protect against the times when we aren't as best as we can.

  27. Athol Kay says:

    Presumably, anyone who you let in your house is equally likely to rob you blind too, since they won't be able to resist the temptation to make off with the computer, DVD player, TV etc?

    If you're a husband who opens your house to your "best friend", and he and the wife become an item, invariably you will be the one that has to leave the house. So yes, you can be robbed blind.

    When you consider the difference between a guy with no home or wife, and one with a house and a wife, wouldn't it be hugely tempting to switch places?

  28. Anonymous says:

    I think you exist in a parallel universe. Presumably because no one can resist adultery, theft, murder, rape and enslavement are also all constant threads in everyone's lives, because no one has any form of self-restraint and acts on their impulses to fuck, fight and victimise without pause.

    Glad I live in England where it's not like that.

  29. cej102937 says:

    I really appreciated Athol's closing line, quoted by Jennifer. I will always remember that line. Thanks!

    There's darkness inside everyone. Thinking you are immune to temptation will blind you to its effects until you're too far gone to do anything about it.

    I really appreciate Athol's approach of risk management, rather than denial. Risk is always around, it will always bite you. The question is, do you plan for it, and how do you manage it?

  30. Anonymous says:

    Why must it be an extreme? There's certainly a risk with higher temptation but giving in is not inevitable (after all we have both animal instinct and also rational brains).

    Couldn't someone in this situation notice that they're starting to feel an attraction *before* they end up in bed with the interloper, for example? As long as they don't assume they're immune to the temptation, of course, as cej points out. Ultimate disaster is avoidable here.

  31. Badger says:

    "Couldn't someone in this situation notice that they're starting to feel an attraction *before* they end up in bed with the interloper, for example? As long as they don't assume they're immune to the temptation, of course, as cej points out. Ultimate disaster is avoidable here. "

    The problem here is that attraction is a pleasurable emotion, it drives us to more of what made us feel attracted. Unlike, say, your feet hurt so you infer you should get new shoes before serious damage occurs.

    One of the key things I've codified since getting into this whole manosphere thing is that humans are far more animals than any of us want to admit, and our limbic systems override our rational impulses far more than we're comfortable admitting. Oftentimes our minds simply serve to rationalize what our biology drives us to do (and it has been proven in psychology that the brain is constantly rationalizing our every action to fit into a congruent narrative lest our self-image be disturbed by the implications of our base instincts).

  32. Looking Glass says:

    I'll address the religious side of this issue:

    If you've been in a Church (or churches) long enough, you know know of stories of pastors being compromised, even the extremely devout. It's simply a matter of being a fallen human. *Everyone* can be cracked, it's just the reality.

    Then, you have to add in a house guest. They are envious of the situation. They are living with *you*. So, for a new woman living in the home, the man is a massive, comparative Alpha. It's his home and his domain and she gets to see all of it and she wants it. (This is why long-term is the main problem) She wants the Alpha and will move to acquire it, given enough time that her natural mores are broken down.

    For a family with a different man staying with them, that new man views the wife as an object he can't attain. He gains sway over the wife in the equation by the fact he's emotionally available much more than the husband is to the wife (due to work). So, over time, she can become emotionally connected to the new man. Then it's just a matter of time for the new man to push the issue and she'll crumble. (The new man also comes off as a "free spirit" Alpha and she has a harder time seeing her husband Alpha traits, as he's normally showing Beta traits at home)

    Attraction *is* built up. Think of how your own relationship came about. Proximity, interaction and at least a minor physical desire. If you shove someone into the first 2, without the ability to really escape them, all sorts of problems and arise. Add in a level of subconscious attraction, desire or envy and you have a nasty powder keg.

    Basically, don't allow someone to stay more than 2 weeks. Past that can cause a lot of problems. And make sure you and the spouse are out for that weekend, without the person. That's playing it "safe".

  33. MK says:

    Agree with your principle 100%. I have seen it up close a good friend/colleague of mine had this happen when he moved a friend in. Even more interesting he had to be 3 pts higher than his wife at least at it still happened.

  34. Anonymous says:

    Excellent article!

    "The key tip off to all of this is the woman's Isolation Anxiety. A woman will have a serious concern about ever being truly isolated with a man she does not have sexual attraction to."

    This is the first time that I have seen this, and it makes perfect sense.

    I have never allowed a man to hang around my woman in any environment, as a purely instinctive reaction.

    And my woman knows that if she even attempts to violate my Prime Directive: No Sharing of Emotional or Physical Intimacy In Any Way, she will get her ass drop-kicked out the front door.

    The funny thing is that the one who has not given this any thought, because he thinks that he could never succumb to anything like that, is the one most vulnerable to invasion by baby alien rationalization hamsters, at the most inopportune time.

    Like when he is shaving, and his wife's sorority sister and BFF comes in and sways down to the toilet bowl saying "I just gotta pee", and then hooks her finger into his shorts and continues "but I would feel sooo bad if you thought you had to leave, after all, you are the Master of The House".

  35. alphapersona says:

    Hey! I'm commenting three days late!

    I'm going to link to this because its brilliant. cej2934872937239487 had it right when s/he said that there is "Darkness inside everyone." I lived with a friend of mine and his family for a while (parents, sisters) and the parents would never let me stay at home alone with the sister who was my age. I always understood their reasoning, but I was never attracted to her – we're friends.

    Eventually – though – I began to find her attractive and I fully appreciate what my friend's parents were doing by not letting us have too much alone time.

    man + woman + empty room = sex. Every Time.

    Its why Isolation is such a key part of game.

    Also: Its cute that your wife writes your blog. My girlfriend helps with mine.

  36. Anonymous says:

    This doesn't hold up, here's why: there are loads of men and women who are roomates for months on end and never end up having sex or considering it. There's also cases like the TV show Big Brother wherein men and women are literally locked up in a house for sometimes months on end with NO communication with the outside world, people who have significant others and manage to stay faithful. Based on this post and others on this blog it seems like you think humans have absolutely no free will or impulse control. As if we are exactly the same as animals with their instinctive fight or flight behaviour. NEWSFLASH: We're considered an evolved species for a reason, we have developed the ability to consciously choose our actions. And to say anything else is either incredibly stupid, incredibly disempowering a false belief, or both.

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