The Virgin Sexual Strategy And Avoiding Getting Punked Before The Wedding

I’m generally a pro-virgin-until-you-meet-the-one kind of guy. There really are benefits to playing the virgin strategy. However as I explained in a recent post, there is risk in waiting all the way until the wedding day, because what happens after the wedding day sexually is an unknown risk.
There’s also the risk of things going wrong before the wedding too. This is post is going to cause some fire and brimstone in the comments no doubt. All I can say is that I know friends that got punked out of marriages because of this issue. I’ve also had many emails from readers that have discovered after the wedding that cheating was going on during the engagement, all the while they were being chaste with their fiance!
For the men…
Understand that not trying to initiate sex with your partner is in biological terms, really dysfunctional behavior. You’re a healthy young male, she is a fertile available female and willing to be isolated by you. You’re meant to be trying to get your penis into her vagina repeatedly. That’s what males are designed evolved to do.
Isn’t it a little strange that on a Friday at the rehearsal dinner, not having sex with your primary partner is a “wonderful commitment to morals”, and by the end of the reception on Saturday it’s a “very serious relationship problem.”  It’s the exact same dysfunctional sexual behavior; you’re not having sex with your pair bonded partner.
When you are a male failing to try and inseminate an available fertile female who has obviously expressed sexual interest in you, it is a weakness display. At first that may not be overly bothersome to her and the relationship may continue on happily, but as a serious emotional relationship progresses over months and into a year or more, that weakness display can begin to earn compound interest.
Should a male willing to push the issue come into contact with a fertile female denied intercourse for an extended period of time, it would from a biological point of view be quite expected that she would respond positively to the new male, and quietly seek him out. She may or may not break off the relationship with the original male.
And yes I know, that would all be terribly immoral and she should be ashamed of herself for cheating on her honorable good guy fiance. If you want more outrage… this all happened while he was deployed.
For the women…
It you’re willing to be honest, there’s a basic Evangelical Christian math problem where there are about 3 marriageable women for every 2 marriageable men. There’s just not enough cocks on the Christian carousel for everyone to have a seat. Plus according to the rulebook there’s no second chances, the carousel only spins once. No pressure.
So the obvious temptation to some of those women is to play dirty and ensure they get a seat and don’t miss out. Or like the classic Emo Philips joke
“When I was a kid, I used to pray every night for a new bike. Then I realised, the Lord doesn’t work that way. So I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. … and I got it!”
Or in plain English…
While you aren’t screwing your guy, some other churchwhore child of God can fall into sin for a little bit and jack your guy right out from you. It’s crazy difficult for a guy to turn down an insistent naked woman. After that she can have a tearful confession and turn back to God. Toss a pregnancy in there and the die is cast. Game over girlfriend, game over.
And yes I know. It’s utterly disgraceful behavior. She’s a total bitch and he’s a bastard for cheating on you. They deserve each other. The rage is completely justified. Except fifteen years later, they’re still married and have kids, while you’re still single. Which is a really shitty outcome on several levels.
So I don’t mean this to sound anti-Christian, I just want to expose some of the harsh reality that can simmer beneath the surface so that my readers don’t get punked by them. And as I’ve said a few times before, young Evangelical women are repeatedly sold a line that there is a husband for every one of them to have a wonderful evangelical husband, when quite plainly there is a math problem with that. It very much remains a pet peeve of mine that such a sick cruelty was inflicted on my friends.
And again, just to be explicitly clear on this point – Jennifer and I both played the virgin strategy and it’s been I think an enormously positive thing for the two of us. When it works, it’s great. However we also got busy once the ring was on her finger and that was also very important for us. Three years of long distance is simply awful to get through and the sexual connection was critical for us making it through that. I’m a fairly open minded guy, but I do hold in contempt the suggestion we damaged our relationship by having sex before the wedding.
In the final analysis, the virgin strategy only works for you, if both of you play by the rules and wait, or if both of you agree to break the rules with each other. If you must wait for the wedding, I strongly suggest you reduce your exposure and make it a short engagement.
 

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Comments

  1. myalphawife says:

    We had a short dating/engagement phase before marriage. I'm pretty certain now that me flat out denying sex with her (due to my "beliefs" at the time and having already been a virgin my whole life – she, not a virgin) before the wedding was a pretty bad pattern to establish. It would explain the four years or so of hardly-any-sex before we finally got our groove back.

  2. MAWblogger says:

    (I'm having trouble getting my commenting skills in order, forgive me for repeating myself)

    We had a short dating/engagement phase before marriage. I'm pretty certain now that me flat out denying sex with her (due to my "beliefs" at the time and having already been a virgin my whole life – she, not a virgin) before the wedding was a pretty bad pattern to establish. It would explain the four years or so of hardly-any-sex before we finally got our groove back.

    I'm full on with everything you said here.

    I wish there was someone who had the foresight to tell me what you describe in your have-sex-after-getting-engaged plan. Shoulda-woulda-coulda I guess.

  3. Jack Dublin says:

    In order to remain chaste until marriage, couldn't the fiance use a bit of game to lead the girl into a foreplay-esque scenario. Then, when she starts to 'warm up' to the idea slow down and withhold sex in accordance with moral principles.
    It seems that sticking to personal beliefs in the face of pleasure would be alpha. And withholding sex is pretty powerful.

    Any idea what the short or long term results would be?

  4. Anonymous says:

    "Then, when she starts to 'warm up' to the idea slow down and withhold sex in accordance with moral principles."

    You mean excite her and then deny her? Repeatedly? I'm not sure if there is a female equivalent of blue balls, but I do think that the other guy will appreciate you 'warming up' your girl for him.

  5. IndyGuy77 says:

    I'd think that stating that any deal-breakers revealed post-"I do" will still be deal-breakers regardless of the legal or church standing would suffice (although consummation is still the final ink on the contact, IIRC).

    Expecting folks to hold out til the wedding night is idealistic and maybe even unrealistic, sure.

    But telling folks to "try before you buy" is just garbage.

    How the Hell is a man or woman supposed to know how serious their potential spouse is if they're encouraging that philosophy?

    "Oh come on, baby! We have to know if we're good together." said by man or woman sounds like a pickup line (a pretty good one at that), not anything resembling a sane approach to finding a lifelong mate.

  6. Kyle says:

    Ehh, the problem with the 2-guys-for-3-girls problem in churches is skewed. In my experience, there have always been more girls, the problem is that there are a lot fewer attractive girls than attractive guys. This leads to unappealing situations where a 7 like me is expected to date a 5 or 6 because all the other 7s are already taken by the 8 or 9 guys.

    For some reason, there have always seemed to be a lot of fat, dumpy girls in church. Sad, isn't it?

  7. Anonymous says:

    I did the wait until marriage thing due to the unscriptural (for men) Christian teaching on "fornication" (misapplication of porneia) and almost made it to the finish line. I was 27 and my last GF, now my wife, was 25. She was my one-and-only and I wasn't hers. She gave me a low number, but I have my doubts. I was actually burned by multiple virgin girls getting popped by others prior to meeting her, by which time it was about 3 years since I'd come across a girl who even pretended to me a virgin.

    I turned down a very large amount of prime poontang from age 11 to 27, as I was a guitarist, bodybuilder,and trainer. If given the opportunity to relive those almost 17 years, I would go for it all, except for the married women.

  8. Looking Glass says:

    I think the 1 thing missing from the Virgin Strategy, and where it has a lot of problems, is the "long engagements." Even a year used to be an exception, now it seems like the rule.

    If you get engaged after 6 months and are married 6 months after that, while a little rough, you don't have a lot of the long term issues. But if you got engaged after 1 year and married after another 2 years, then you've been sexually frustrating each other for 3 years. It's a bit like Chinese Water Torture. It's just a bad plan.

    So, the better advice for the Religious types: propose, do your due diligence for what's necessary to make a marriage work, then elope. That should take you 4 months.

  9. Anonymous says:

    Looking Glass,

    I agree. Also – get married at 14 (just kidding).

    "In the final analysis, the virgin strategy only works for you, if both of you play by the rules and wait…"

    I still think this is the optimal. From what I understand, most "compatibility" issues can be overcome. Plus, the whole idea that you could have a super good relationship with someone on every level – but that the whole thing could fall apart if your *first few performances* are not up to par is a ridiculous load to tie on anyone's back. Obviously, I am not saying there is *nothing* to what Athol is saying here, but for me, it simply gives me more incentive to help my sons to be extremely realistic about life – and to emphasize how critical character and trust are. My wife and I married around 25 – and were both virgins. Both of us had a strong commitment to remaining pure to marriage and both of us are maybe about a 7/7.5 or so.

    That said, I am sure I lost a few of my girlfriends before her because I wasn't alpha/aggresive enough with them. The way I look at it, if they could not see that I wanted them but that I respected them more, they simply were not the kind of girls I was interested in marrying. And as far as getting a little "prime poontang" before I was married, all I have to do is think about some guy thinking that way about my daughter.

    He's the kind of person I will always protect my daughter from. She would deserve better.

    So Athol – no need for fire and brimstone here, let's just talk about what real love is and practical results, huh?

    That said, I've been married 12 years and much of what Athol has said has been extremely helpful for me in turning a very non-sexual wife (not very interested in it with me or anyone else – really, I think) into a sexual one.

  10. Anonymous says:

    I live in Utah and so have seen more than a few short engagements–it's pretty much the rule around here. Why? Because most people take the no-sex-before-marriage rule so seriously. At the same time, they may get criticized for being too quick to get married (do you really know someone after 3 or 4 or 5 months? Well, probably well enough in most cases) but long term it seems to work for a lot of people.

    My parents, on the other hand (Mormon, though I am not), had a 6 year long distance relationship (by phone and letter) because they lived in different states. That probably just would not happen today.

    A short engagement is definitely the easiest strategy to deal with the problems in the virgin strategy, but I can't guarantee it's problem free. Plenty of divorce in this religion too.

  11. Anonymous says:

    @Kyle
    Fat, dumpy, and prudish? wOOt!

    Where are these 'virgins' that you all speak of? The norm for single women these days seems to be a partner count = age. Single digit women in their 20's are rare as hen's teeth.

    Or are we talking 'technical virgins' where blowies and anal 'don't count' ?

  12. Anonymous says:

    The surveys may be saying 3 single women for every 2 single guys, but that must apply to younger people only. I am in my early 50's and the only attractive women over 40 at my local churches are taken. I'm not asking for a lot in attractiveness but I can't even find that much. Seems like churches are the refuge of the ugly spinsters. So I'm forced to look outside.

  13. Smart says:

    First off, love this post. It is something that I feel percolates beneath the service for a lot of people and very few people seem to be able to call it out for what it is, so well done.

    A few observations from my own life.

    I grew up playing a lot of sports in a community with a very large mormon population. I ended up having a lot of friends who were mormon growing up. Myself not being mormon, I had no issue with sex before marriage. Now that we have all grown up…

    A lot of my mormon friends:
    1.) Married young
    2.) Married their first "love"
    3.) Had kids young
    4.) Had/have unfulfilling sex lives – from what little I knew on this, not like I asked just what they offered.

    My wife and I are each other's firsts. We dated for a long time before we got married and "tried each other out". We had sex quite early in our relationship cause we both wanted to, we had kids later, married later, have a great sex life etc…

    Take it for what its worth, those are my experiences. Getting married young and having kids young is not a bad thing. In today's world it can set you back though and it was not something I wanted so I am slightly biased.

    Oh and there are a lot of older single mormon ladies than older single guys in our community.

  14. Smart says:

    Having said that, my wife and I did "wait" before marriage.

    We got married in Dominican Republic, day 2 or 3 into our two weeks there was the wedding day.

    We decided we would not have sex for a few days before the wedding so it would be no holds barred the night of.

    Worked out pretty good.

  15. Smart says:

    IndyGuy77…

    I disagree.

    I agree if the "try before you buy" approach is your only measuring stick in choosing your life long mate, but I do think it is an important part of the equation.

    About 7 years ago, I had two friends who decided they wanted to date each other and see how it went. They were friends before, enjoyed each other's company, obviously found each other attractive, but when they tried each other out in the bedroom it was a disaster. No chemistry, felt awkward etc… They both agreed it was not going to work out.

  16. Polly says:

    Churches, church organizations, and Christian schools all tout the necessity of celibacy before marriage. I don't think I have ever heard them try to explain the reason behind it,though, other than a proclamation of "thus God hath said". Catholics are somewhat better on the whys and wherefores than Protestants but even that material needs to be sought out and is not commonly disseminated. In other words, people are taking the pastor's or teacher's word for it and the value of pre-marriage celebacy, indeed the value of chastity, is never prorperly integrated as a personal and deeply held conviction in many religious people.

    My advice to young people, male or female, would be that if they get any hint that their partner is only interested in trying to follow the "rules" without sincere personal investment, run away fast. Pesonal moral values, as well as ethics, should penetrate far more deeply than external religious affliation. If your partner wishes to be chaste, that will hold true no matter what religion to which he or she may convert in the future.

    Find out what you *really* want and what your partner *really* wants, apart from all the b.s. that is swimming around in your head. Then, go for it.

  17. Keb says:

    I have three non-religious reasons why I'm still a virgin at 31.

    1st: Abortion. (okay, this might be a little religious, depending on your POV) Abortion simply isn't an option for me. I've got no problem with most other methods of contraception, but none of them is perfect, which means that pregnancy and the well-being of potential children is a factor for me.

    2nd: Fatherhood. I'm unwilling to intentionally deprive my kids of having the father that I believe is vastly important to their lives. Given 1, that doesn't leave me much room for error.

    3rd: Honoring my future husband. Yeah, this goes against every feminist thing since suffrage, but I really believe that, should I be fortunate enough to get married, the man who marries me has a claim on my sexuality. I want to be able to give him that gift. I want to be able to draw on the strengths that can, as the statistics show, lend to our marriage. If I sleep with someone else first, I erase those benefits and destroy that gift.

    I get what you're saying about avoiding a real disaster, Athol, and I agree that if it works out, there's nothing spectacularly wrong with having sex with your eventual spouse before the marriage. But if it doesn't work out…that's a pretty big price to pay.

    And maybe it seems a lot bigger in my mind now because I'm getting older. I think I've got a lot to offer a husband, but without sex it feels like pretty much nothing to offer a boyfriend in this day and age. I'm really puzzled as to how one gets from point a to point b.

  18. The Macnut says:

    @Keb; it won't help, I'm sure, that most men aren't virgins by choice at your age. Most 31+ male virgins tend to be social misfits who have problems finding a woman who wants to have sex with them. So I hope you don't require virginity in potential dates.

  19. Anonymous says:

    I have to agree with this posts, Athol. My best friend held on to her virginity until she was married. Her husband on the other hand was not a virgin. She said their honeymoon rocked as in they had sex every day. Why then, when they came back to the real world did they not have sex for the next six months. For five years their sex life was like this. She could count on fingers and toes how many times they had sex the five yearst hey were married (not counting the honeymoon.) My personal belief was that he enjoyed the fact that she was a virgin but then found it to be all the same or lacking once they actually consumated the marriage.

  20. Anacaona says:

    @Smart
    I'm Dominican thank you for your contribution to our economy ;)

    @Keb
    I will say that I had the same reasons than you (and many other more) but I started to look for a husband around age 23 because frankly I was sexually frustrated. I find my hubby at 27 and consummated during the engagement, everything has been wonderful so far. So the question is why are you still in dating stage and not engaged or married at 31?

    @Anonymous
    Not necesarily many people can be interested in sex when the person is new and hot and then end up losing interest for millions of reasons. How do you think this men that married their sexually interested wife that turned the cold after the deed was signed? The thing is that there is no guarantees in sex one has to be very careful virgin or not. Like I asked before many people can pretend to like sex to get the marriage and then go back to their sexless selves or just they never were that attracted in the first place. Shitty thing to do but it does happen, regardless of strategy.

  21. dreadpiratk says:

    I think you are generally right on with this post, but I have a couple of hopefully not too picky critiques.

    For one thing, like most people you confuse a Biblical definition of marriage with the modern idea of a 'wedding'. In fact, the simplest way to form a marriage according to the Bible is to 'take her to your bed' i.e. have sex. So you and Jennifer, and my wife and I as well are completely in accord with what the Bible says about sex. We just got married before the wedding ceremony. It worked out great for both of us, how about that.

    "Isn't it a little strange that on a Friday at the rehearsal dinner, not having sex with your primary partner is a "wonderful commitment to morals", and by the end of the reception on Saturday it's a "very serious relationship problem."

    Only if you see sex as a binary proposition. 'Either you're doing it or you're not'. It really isn't as you have pointed out many times. An engaged couple can and should be escalating the sexual contact as they approach their wedding, culminating with actual intercourse on their wedding night, whether or not that follows the wedding ceremony. The idea that it's hands off one day and full on sex the next is silly, and I doubt any but the most conservative religious people really expect that. Also a good argument for short engagements.

    To be sure, the church as a whole makes a complete hash of this and most other teachings about sex almost all the time. Blame it on Augustine.

    Lastly, a woman (or man) who will cheat while engaged will cheat while married. Magic words don't change a persons character. Isn't it better to find out before hand? Painful and humiliating to be sure, but less so in a fiancee than a wife.

  22. Anonymous says:

    My husband and I were both virgins on our wedding night. I'm glad we waited. My reasons-

    There were times during our engagement where my husband had to physically peel me off of him and say, "No." Disappointing at the time, but that display of self-control (and the demand that I control myself as well, very alpha IMHO) has earned him A LOT of trust. He can pretty much go anywhere/ do anything and I don't worry about it/ hassle him. It's not a courtesy I give, it's respect that he has earned and is due to him, which I think is an important distinction.

    We dealt with compatibility issues with lots of communication. I bought a copy of The Joy of Sex, highlighted the hell out of it, put little side notes like "this position in a hammock", "handcuffs or scarves?", etc. He took the book, read my notes, made his own, and we talked about it. A lot. We got to know each other pretty well. We hit the ground running on the honeymoon.

    Our engagement was about nine months long. Any longer and I'm pretty sure my self control would have collapsed. I agree wholeheartedly with short engagements. Once the ring is on the finger, get your fiancee's butt to the altar as soon as possible.

    Summary of my experiences: self control and discipline in men or women is a sign of strength, not weakness.

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