It’s Already An Unstable Relationship If She’s Hotter Than Him

Following up on Girl Game vs Fitness Test, a few commenters were horrified at the advice I gave that the wife express very mild disinterest and disloyalty to her husband in order to spark him into some kind of action in self-improving, as opposed to just talking about it. My reply being…
Some of you are missing the point a little. She’s hotter than him, a female 8 to a male 6 or 7. It’s a fairly natural and probable result that she will leave or cheat on him. The relationship is already unstable because of that difference in Sex Rank. She’s gotten more attractive, he’s gotten less attractive since the start of the relationship.
What she’s doing and I’m advising, is openly (as opposed to in secret) slowly inch toward the door/another man, in hopes that her husband wakes up and starts pulling himself together about the marriage before she does something crossing the event horizon of relationship failure. She’s already verbally expressed herself in conversation that basically boils down to, “Look I’m an 8, I’d like you to become an 8 too, so we can have a better relationship together.”  In response his talk said he’d become an 8, and then he didn’t perform any action toward doing that.
So by the time she finds MMSL, she’s already passed the point of (1) just tolerating things. His options are to, (2) be cheated on, (3) get handed a surprise filing for divorce, or (4) pull himself together and improve his sex rank and re-attract his wife.
She wants option (4), but he wants option (1) to continue. However once she’s taken option (1) off the table, the story will inevitably head toward finishing up in an option (2), (3) or (4) ending. The only outcome that the husband can actively choose to affect the outcome is (4). If he is passive, it heads toward option (2) or (3).
MMSL isn’t creating the situation of destabilization, so much as managing it for best advantage.
And to underline the true seriousness of the husband’s situation – he likely lives in a no fault divorce state, there’s nothing illegal about her starting the divorce paperwork tomorrow, cheating on him, or getting pregnant to someone else and thus making the husband liable for supporting the resultant child. I’m trying to get her to feed him the red pill in tiny little divided doses before the shit like that hits the fan.
It is to her vast credit that she is consciously aware of her situation and trying to communicate that to him.


  1. I'm surprised you had to spell it out. It seemed pretty clear from yours and hers earlier comments.

    It's good advice, and kudos for her for looking to resolve the problem

  2. Thanks for calling us all idiots.

  3. In all likelihood, he is either depressed or is really looking at being free from the marriage.

    I've known several men who have done the same thing. The breakup of my first marriage had some similarities, too. Only in that case, it broke apart because my SMV was increasing and hers wasn't, but I really didn't want to stay with her and so increased my beta behaviors when around her.

  4. "there's nothing illegal about her starting the divorce paperwork tomorrow, cheating on him, or getting pregnant to someone else and thus making the husband liable for supporting the resultant child."

    A bit of dark humor – you could post a map of the U.S. highlighting all the no fault divorce states with this as the caption.

  5. Nerdy Wife and Funny Husband says:

    I don't think that's necessarily true. I think two people can love each other even if they aren't the same rank. Because there are more than looks that have to be considered like money, personality, sexual ability, etc. I think that if you could add all these up, you might come up with a fair argument. But looks aren't all marriages are based on.

  6. I think it is true that all marriages are not based on looks. All one need do is look around. I often see gorgeous women with average men. However, I feel that he must make up for it in some other way. Maybe that average looking guy is a great alpha/beta mix and gives her the dopamine she needs.

    I can say, "My wife will never cheat on me." Maybe that is true, maybe it is not. But can I afford to take any chances? It is so easy for men to forget that the way you got her is the way you keep her. Hopefully this will wake up this guy before it is too late.

  7. For the record, I wasn't horrified by your advice… I'm just not very convinced the husband will respond to "mild disloyalty" from his hot wife by attempting to circle the wagons around his marriage. He may just become resentful that she's turning away from him and shut down completely. She even said her efforts at destabilizing the relationship so far have brought up the prospect of him "throwing in the towel".

  8. I agree with Athol 100% because this is what happened with my wife and me over a year ago. I was not far from being the guy in the email. My wife is stunningly attractive – so attractive that many men feel intimidated to approach her. She was an ugly duckling and grew up fat and then in high school suddenly lost it all. I met her in college where I took her virginity. She was a 9 and I was an 8.

    Anyway over the years her "betaness" became a turn off for me. I guess I never saw her as the "sexy vixen" even though she was beautiful. I just started thinking of her as a friend, and as a result our relationship turned similar to relationship in the email mentioned in this post. I even avoided sex with her because it was no longer a turn on. I spent my time fantasizing about nasty / dirty whores who "needed" sex. She'd complain about the sex of course, but I blamed it on some medication I was taking for stress.

    She stayed a 9 over the years and I got fat and my sex rank started going down to about a 6. However, even though she was a 9, because she didn’t see herself as a 9. A 9 and a 6 can stay married without a problem as long as the 9 thinks she’s a 6.

    But then something changed. One day she started saying things like "someday someone is going to sweep me off my feet". I thought this was strange because she never said something like this before, however she said it a few more times over the next few weeks. I noticed that she changed her appearance a bit and was dressing different. She was also more into her exercise program. At the time I didn't think too much more cause I knew she wouldn't cheat on me. For one she never ever flirted and 2 she always avoided eye contact with men.
    Then I got my dose of the red pill. It was about a month later when we were standing in a long line for the Dumbo ride at Disney World. I remember her looking at a guy standing next to us, and then looking again. This was the first time I ever saw her checking some other guy out. I know it's normal for women to do, but it surprised me because she said she never did it. During the rest of the trip I wore sun glasses and kept an eye on her, and noticed she’d check out guys.

    It was after this I started researching the whole alpha / beta thing along with the ovulation stuff. My wife was ovulating on that day in Disney World. This was all an awakening experience because it was the day I found out those women are kind of like men when they ovulate.

    After the trip I came back and started over analyzing everything from sexy underwear I’ve never seen before to the way she was trimming her va-jay-jay. I was convinced she was cheating on me. As an IT guy I did a full investigation. Checked computer history, searched for hidden email accounts, Face Book activity and cell phone usage. I found nothing that was suspicious.

    Whatever caused these changes in her were either in my head, or perhaps she started feeling attraction to someone outside and it never went anywhere.

    I know this story is long, but it is proof that what Athol is prescribing here really works. Honest talking doesn’t work. Before these little things happened, I was way too secure in the relationship to the point I took her for granted. It was when I was faced the reality that other men find her desirable, and she found other men desirable too that made me want to change.

    After this happened I started working out and brought myself back up to an 8. Even brought a few beta elements I was missing by helping more with the laundry and dishes. Before I’d make her do everything.

    To the women who wrote this email, your husband probably doesn’t think of you as a higher sex rank even though you think of yourself that way. There could be something you’re doing that is lowering your rank in his eyes. Otherwise he’d be putting the effort in with you.

  9. Thanks for calling us all idiots.

    This is passive-aggressive.

  10. I thought this made plenty of sense the first time around. It simply comes down to not taking each other for granted. Sometimes one partner just needs a little reminder that the other one has options!

    (Newlywed and new to your blog, so enjoying it very much)

  11. Passive aggressive? Please explain. Seems like he was saying somevdidn't get it, and he did. Where to draw the conclusion? Tone sure sounded condescending, if we're applying labels.

  12. Anonymous,

    If I was calling everyone an idiot, I would have written something subtle, like, "you are all idiots". Strangely enough, I don't see those words there. You're reading something that appears to exist only in your own mind.

    If I were being condescending, I would have written something like, "it seemed pretty clear to me that the English reading skill level of a foreign national three year old would have had no difficulty parsing that advice". Strangely enough, I don't see those words either.

    Sometimes words are just that and mean only what they mean. Seeking deeply embedded meanings where none exist is a fruitless exercise.

    To clarify, since apparently I didn't explain myself fully, I was surprised because it seemed clear, *to me*. What I was interested in was finding out what it was that others may not have understood. Is there something I missed? Is there something I overlooked or failed to understand properly? Maybe someone would say something that would let me see another aspect I previously missed. I might even learn something new from the resulting discussions that may have taken place. Obviously I should have made that clearer. My bad.

    I most certainly didn't call everyone here idiots.

    However, if it makes you feel better, I will reserve the label for your off-the-cuff behaviour and knee-jerk reaction and leave you with the sincere wish that such behaviour is unusual and not a fundamental character flaw on your part.

  13. Christina,

    Does your new hubby read this blog with you?

    Given that you are newlyweds, is it worthwhile for both of you to put Athol's advice into practice now while you are still in the honeymoon phase and before you have built up the barriers that married couples often do for whatever reason married couples do?

    Just imagine a relationship that is a like a honeymoon for 20 years.


  14. Pd, I honestly did not get that from your statement. We all approach things from our own lens, colored by our experiences. Seems like when Athol says, "based on comnents in the ptevious…" one would go there to read first. And some of the comments hit on some emotional things. This blog is emotionally charged, as the topic hits on a core need. My apologies for letting my vulnerabiilities get the best of me.

    But, Athol, to just slap the passive-aggressive label out there was a little different than.being an asshole.

  15. Athol, continually trying to guess what's on his mind and ferret out motivations instead of simply asking him what's up or telling hom what I need is *making* me passive-aggressive! My hamster is on overdrive, and I feel like I'm putting things out there just to see (and interpret) his reaction. This is a good telationship. I should be able to filter posts based on that, but when I read one like this, I'm destabilized enough to think, "oh crud. Did I screw that up? Are we not as good as I thought?"

    If this speaks to a larger character flaw that needs help outside MMSL, as pd may allude to, I'm willing to hear that. Othetwisr I mau just be too sensitive to participate in an open forum like thid.

    Either way, I apologize for reacting with the venom I did.

  16. @Anonymous, I realize you were being serious, and I really don't mean this as criticism, but I almost laughed out loud at:
    "I'm not passive-aggressive. You're *making* me passive-aggressive. So Nyah!"

  17. Huh? I'm driving *myself* nutty trying to figure this all out. I didn't mean to make it sound like that.

    I have decided not to follow this as I have been. I need to find another way. This clearly isn't working for me, because i' started acting in a way I never have before, and this was a serious reality check on that behavior. Wow.

  18. Soooo… what you're saying is, don't run the MAP on a healthy relationship?

  19. Athol Kay says:

    Carrie – no reason why two 7's can't both work on moving to being 8's together. That's called making it hotter.

  20. Ok, but the mistake I see (I think) above is in assuming your rrlationship is broken, thus employing such subterfuge. Rather, two 7s should work cooperatively on self improvement. And possibly lighten up a little to give the fire some room to grow. Right?

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