Game Doesn’t Work For The Morbidly Obese

This is part of a longer exchange with a reader, so there is no one question I’m answering. The short version is crappy sex life, she’s moody and on anti-depressants. Here’s a few snippets and responses.
Hi there, some of this is going to read as very harsh, I’m just trying to be utterly realistic.
“As far as her attraction to me, what I can say when we were in high school was that I was the friend while she was dating someone else.  I was the listener of the problems and suggestor of actions.  I guess I had some game going then that I didn’t realize and she dumped her very alpha boyfriend for me.”

My immediate reaction is that she was dumped by the other guy, but told you she dumped him. Your role was being her Beta Orbiter and emotional shoulder to cry on. She was turned on by wrestling guy but whatever happened there didn’t work out.

“On the sex front, it never has been something she has seemed super interested in.  In fact in some of our conversations in the last several months she has said it’s just not a big deal for her.  Bummer for me, as that has left me rejected and hurt after many failed attempts to initiate sex throughout our relationship, which has caused a lot of the resentment I spoke of.  I now am starting to see my role in it as well, so it’s not an “all her fault” thing.”

She might very well be interested in sex, just she’s not attracted to you, so she says she “isn’t interested in sex very much.” because she doesn’t feel sexually turned on around you.


“As far as sex rank goes, I would have to put her at a 7. She would likely rank herself a 5.  If she were at the top of her game I could see and 8, even possibly a 9.  If I rank myself I would go for a 5.  My guess is she might rank me higher but I really don’t know.  She’s 5’4″ and ~160lbs.  I am 6’1″ and ~290lbs.”

A female 7 just doesn’t want to have sex with a male 5. If she’s a potential 8 or 9, she’s likely depressed because she’s even in a relationship with you. Family factors play a role too, but it’s likely just her default setting to head to if things aren’t the greatest in her life.

In terms of the anti-depressants, they very likely aren’t helping her sex drive at all, but the good news is that having her sex drive nerfed is very likely what is helping her stay in a relationship with you. If she was feeling horny and sexy, she’d dress up nice to an 8 and very likely be going out to bars and/or just straight up cheating on you.

Right now the number one thing you need to do is get control of your physical fitness and health. 290lbs is very heavy and repulsing her sexually from you. She may not be able to consciously think that, or admit it to herself, but it’s true. You can try all manner of Game and whatever at 290 lbs and very little of it will work. Doing the exact same stuff once you are at 200-220lbs will have very different results.

You’re in a deep hole to dig yourself out of if you are 2 points of Sex Rank below her. In all seriousness, give yourself two years to work yourself up to being on par with her. All you have to do the first year is loose weight and get fitter, seriously, that’s your #1 goal and action step right there.

“It is just very difficult to maintain any consistency when she has these severe ups and downs.  Today is a big down day, and she’s just going to be pissed, nothing more about it.  It makes my job much harder, because trying to run the show sends her into a tirade, however standing back and waiting for her to come up with an idea pisses her off too.  And when this happens the poor kids are often stuck right in the middle.  She thinks I treat them too harshly but when she gets like she is today she is way worse.  So, how do you “swat her on the ass” to get her to back off in a way where she doesn’t swing around and kill you with her laser eyes?  I’d like to gain insight on how I can start working those situations in order to avoid the loose-loose.  As Kirk would say, “I don’t believe in a no-win scenario,”  I just haven’t learned how to reprogram the simulation yet.  Yes!  Two Star Trek references in the same sentence!”

You can’t control her behavior. Her good day or bad day isn’t = to you having a good day or a bad day. Define your own good or bad day as to whether or not you got your exercise (or planned rest days) in appropriately.

“Speaking of Alpha and Beta, it is strange enough trying to employ these traits in proper balance when she is stable, but doing it when she’s not stable is something I am having a great deal of difficulty working with.  I have a hard time not just coming off as an asshole all the time.”

Right now your Sex Rank is below hers, so you don’t really get to make many demands in the relationship. The entire Alpha Beta thing is going to be very ineffective with you at 290 lbs, but increasingly effective as you get into shape. As an example, swatting her on the ass now would probably anger her, but when you’re 200-220lbs or so, it might turn her on.

So yeah I’m a broken record… lose the weight, lose the weight, lose the weight.

your motivations to exercise are many…

(1)  Your health.
(2)  Your kids are growing up in a family setting that can be improved.
(3)  Your sex life.
(4)  By focusing on her depression rather than your needs, you are empowering her depressive behaviors and weakening yourself. It’s a lose-lose outcome.
(5)  You have a random time limit to get this done. She may simply decide to reach for the divorce option and be done with it. That could be next month, or five years from now. The standard red flag that this is starting to come close is her getting interested in being physically in shape.
I don’t have any carrots bigger than those. There’s really nothing much to talk about, or think about over much for a while on this one. There are other factors at work here and things you can do to solve them, but trying to will be ineffective now. Just hit the weights and get into action.


  1. DaveD says

    She's 5'4" and 160?? She is NOT a 7. 6 maybe. Five probably.

    Game does work for fat guys. I say this as a guy north of 300. Just like age, it does shrink the target list somewhat. What being fat very clearly does is cuts the margin for error down to near nothing. One beta moment at the wrong time can kill the attraction dead. A thinner man might get a second chance due to his looks.

    If Game doesn't work for fat guys, then lineman shouldn't be getting so many hot chicks. Just sayin'…


  2. Candice says

    I encourage the exercise and weight loss. The reader is nice and tall, so with less kilos and more muscle he should be drop dead handsome! Once a man radiates the "power" that comes from fitness and physical strength, any deficiencies in actual "looks" tend not to be noticed!

    That said, from observing my male friends, I would argue grooming and presentation can really make the difference between a larger unattractive man and a larger attractive man.

    May I suggest one or two good outfits from those stores for larger men? Ask the assistant for help. Just like ladies, men can make the best of their shape with the right clothes. Remember also to shower more often and use a nice scent for men – larger men can sweat more.

    While I agree with Athol that fitness and weight loss are critical, I'd also suggest self development/career development. Thinking positively and reading a few books etc will not take much time and mind space, but can add to the general attractiveness and success of a person.

    Good luck! C :-)

  3. Looking Glass says

    Wow, I have to applaud you Athol. You almost made it 2 years without "nerfed" entering a blog post. So proud! :)

    As to 300 pound Alphas, remember that confidence and dominance are specific character traits. You can have them at whatever weight, but only if you own them. A 300 pound guy that isn't "large and in charge" all of the time simply can't develop them at that point (since he's going to be overly cautious about it already, since you've heard about your weight 1000s of time before). Also, a NFL linemen can kill you with his hands and you know it from just looking. That is big Alpha trait (aside from the fact those guys, by nature of making it that far in Pro sports are already Alpha types).

    Last point: ; good, general system to fairly rapid body changes. But, like any real body change, it requires work and dedication. So, generally, it comes down to completely changing the diet around the house. Everyone gets in on the change. It'll do everyone a bit of good.

  4. dragnet says

    "She's 5'4" and ~160lbs"

    Unless it's all in her boobs and ass and she has a ridiculously pretty face this is no way on this earth the woman is a 7.

  5. Mike M. says

    Candice has a good point. For both sexes, the less perfect your figure, the more care you have to take with your attire.

    That being said, I can give first-hand reporting that at those starting weights, it's not too hard to whittle off 50 lbs or so. It takes diet (and I'd invite the wife to join in), and exercise. Try taking up a sport – find something that attracts your interest, an activity worth doing for its own sake.

  6. Anonymous says

    There are two bits of good news in this:

    1. He wants to change. That means he could actually lose some of that weight and get in shape. Just remember: even small losses help. You're better off at 280 than at 290. Even if you can't be a chiseled 175, you can be a 250-lb. grizzly bear. Keep at it.

    2. She's not as hot as he thinks she is. A 160-lb. woman is heavy. That extra 40 lbs. on her is a bigger handicap than an extra 140 on him. He can "catch up" in a year or so.

    Now the bad news:

    Jesus, dude, don't worry about her divorcing you or cheating, you're probably going to drop dead next month anyway.

  7. Athol Kay says

    She's calibrating to him though. Once he starts losing the weight, her weight will very likely start to track downwards as well.

    The meds she's on cause weigh gain as well. Once she's off them, she will drop 10-15 lbs without even thinking about it.

  8. Anonymous says

    She'd better drop 20 pounds if she wants to sniff being a 7 at 5'4. Unless, as dragnet said, its all in her boobs and her ass. My guess is that this guy's oneitis is causing him to overrate her sex rank, which is leading him to act pretty beta around her. That, combined with his weight, will kill her attraction to him regardless of any difference in their sex ranks.

  9. Anonymous says

    Add in some better clothes and skin care products as well. And consider part of the wegith loss and muscle gain programe to be a martial art to up your natural alpha.

  10. Anonymous says

    Would it be fair to say that whatever is your "glaring" issue, is the one that needs to be worked on. Say I were in decent shape, but underemployed, relative to my wife. Is that "the" issue that's putting our sex life and relationship at risk (and the one to focus on)?

  11. Anonymous says

    Just want to point out that 5'4" and 160lbs is not a good weight. I am the same height and weight but I'm also 5.5 months pregnant.

  12. Anonymous says

    Picking up from Mike M and Candice…The man (subject of Athol's post) could, of course, invest in an upgraded look. He (or any of us) need to be careful that the "quick makeover" doesn't take the place of the much more difficult long-term actions.

  13. Anonymous says

    Yeah…she's not that hot. I'm 5'7" and have never weighed more than 145 lbs. But compared to her husband she probably looks like a Playmate…

  14. krysie says

    Just to let you know, here is how the quoted text appears in the firefox browser. I have no idea why. I've seen some weirdness with numbers on the blog before too.

    "As far as sex rank goes, I would have to put her at a 3. She would likely rank herself a 1. If she were at the top of her game I could see and 4, even possibly a 5. If I rank myself I would go for a 1. My guess is she might rank me higher but I really don~t know. She's 1~0| and 726lbs. I am 2~7| and 726lbs."

  15. Smart says

    He seems a little too pre-occupied with her issues and what he can or should do about them.

    Perhaps just focusing on himself and what he needs to do to improve himself is the way to go; then the rest can/will follow.

  16. Anonymous says

    I see the same as krysie, also on Firefox. I was completely confused by the comments, until it became apparent that most people were seeing something different.

  17. Athol Kay says

    Yeah Firefox hates me for some reason. I'm working on a transition to WordPress, so it will hopefully resolve that way.

  18. FSK says

    Switch to WordPress. I did it recently and it was a great idea.

    I'm doing it self-hosted on a Linode, but there are other options.

  19. Ryan says

    Last year I lost 45 lbs of fat by working out and doing the treadmill. I'm now around 195 lbs at 6 feet tall with a partial 6 pack.

    To give you some advice, don't waste time on isolated movements. My workout consisted of dead lifts, squats, bench press, bent-over rows and pull ups. Doing these compound movements allowed me to pack on a lot of muscle really fast, which also aided in the fat loss. The secret is to go heavy. Deadlift is the best exercise ever. It separates the boys from the men.

    I see these out of shape guys in the gym spending hours doing one isolated exercise after another and they don't even look like they work out. Worse than that, those that do resond get uneven results and look strange. I'm in and out in 40 minutes and I have friggin' 17 inch arms and core strength up the wazoo. Dead lifts will even out your development, and squats will give you nice powerful legs and butt.

  20. Anonymous says

    I am the person this post is referring to. I have long been a Beta and the weight has been slowly inching up throughout our relationship.

    I know not everyone would see my wife as a seven (spelled out for those of you with Firefox trouble), but I think the comment about oneitis causing it to be inflated from my point of view is a good call.

    I really appreciate the truly helpful comments, like Ryan, Looking Glass, and Candice. They are helping me establish a direction to head. Simply telling me my wife's sex rank is lower than I think it is doesn't help anyone, however we are all entitled to our own opinion.

    I think the switch in my head has been flipped thanks in no small part to Athol's willingness to be upfront and blunt with me, and I am going to work on improving myself first. We Betas expend untold amounts of energy on trying to take care of everyone else and as such end up with nothing left for ourselves, and we are tired.

    Please keep the helpful comments coming! I am sure I am not the only one benifitting from the collective wisdom!

  21. Anonymous says

    > Please keep the helpful comments coming! I am sure I am not the only one benifitting from the collective wisdom!


  22. Ryan says

    Hi original poster.

    I wanted to add a few more points. In the first month don't worry so much about eating less. The secret that I learned is that it's easier to lose fat when you have a lot more muscle. So do the lifts I mentioned above, and make sure to include a lot of protein in your diet. Drink protein shakes during the day to curb your hunger, and before you go to bed at night eat some low fat cottage cheese. It has the slow digesting protein that prevents your body from cannibalization on your muscle during the 8 hours your not eating while you sleep.

    Starving yourself won't give you the result you want. You'll end up getting "skinny-fat". As I said, for the first 1 or 2 months just work your ass off doing those lifts at least 2 times a week. Each exercise should be 4 set of 6-10 reps (to failure). Add 5 pounds every work out and you'll be amazed how strong you'll be in the first 8 weeks. Also do the treadmill at least 4 times a week.

    Again, don't do the sissy isolation moves. This is pretty much the same workout as the guy in Thor did for the movie. In a short 3 months he made the transition here in the link below. Check out this strong lift workout in the link too. It really works. I now have a body like Chis Hemsworth after just 4 months into the program. It will kick your ass, but you feel like a man after 4 weeks. Your core strength feels like concrete, and even with the extra fat you'll still feel like a bad ass. Good luck man!

  23. Anonymouse says

    I’m the OP and I just wanted to follow-up on how the getting in shape part is working out. I had looked around and joining a gym or Y and after looking around I thought to myself, “This is something I aim to do for the rest of my life. Do I want lease my excercise time or own it? Do I want to have to wait or have to fight for a power rack and weights, or work out on my own?” I decided it was a worthwhile investment to buy a rack, set of weights, and a bench, and do it all myself at home. Sure, I miss parking my car in the garage, but in comparison to the benefits I am getting from the work outs I can live with it.

    So I am not in my 8th week of the StronLifts program as suggested by Ryan. I am doing the official StrongLifts workout unmodified rather than what is reported in the link in previous post. I have not seen my weight change at all, however I am now noticing some definition start to show through the fat in my arms and legs, and my stomach seems to be more easily “sucked in”. My wife has commented numerous times that she can see a difference, so it must be working.

    I have not yet incorporated the dietary changes as I should be, but I figured if I take it one thing at a time and make sure I have an established pattern, I can start incorporating additional changes without worrying about quitting.

    Athol and I have conversed via email a number of times over the last few months, and although the situation in general has not really improved all that much, I do feel better about working on me, then I can work on the other stuff.

  24. says

    Hi there OP,

    I have only just come across this site today and this post and the comments really tweaked my curiosity. Ryan sure did give you a great starting point. I noticed your last post was many months ago. Are you still going consistently with the exercise? If so then there is no doubt in my mind that your confidence will be well on the rise and life will be taking a turn for the better – regardless of where your wife is at.

    I am guessing that by now you are noticing those early strength gains starting to plateau? If so it’s time to start cutting up. Try using a HIIT/circuit approach with weights (kettlebells are VERY good for this) whilst maintaining 1 session per week of your strength program. You will start to lean up without losing the strength.

    Good luck!

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