When Her Anger Is Just A Tactic

The reader asking the question I answered on How Not To Be Affected By Her Anger.
Reader:  How do you do it??  I have been working on this and it has actually worked.  I am faking it at first, because as I walk away from her when she is starting to get upset, I am actually holding back my emotions (something that she either can’t or won’t do, and admittedly,  I have sometimes reacted with equal anger to hers in the past).  If I can hold out and give her enough space she has come back calmed down and nice again.  She rarely apologizes to me, and even when she does its usually feigned, but after a recent outburst where I took your suggested approach, she actually approached me after about 15 minutes and apologized for real.   Wow!  Who is this woman and what has she done with my wife?
Thanks for the very sound  advice.  I wish I would have understood this years ago.
Athol:  Wives using anger as a routine thing, are doing so as a tactic to get you to change your behavior by evoking a submissive response in you. When it doesn’t work, it becomes a useless tactic, so she’ll stop. And obviously when you make a display of submission to her, that reduces her attraction to you.
Bear in mind I’m talking about anger as a routine thing, not an occasional response to an obvious inappropriate event. Her being angry after you attempt to drive into the garage without opening the garage door first, would be a perfectly fine use of anger. Getting yelled at four or more times a week for minor and trivial infractions means she’s just being a bully.
Note that you don’t have to actually “win the fight” in the moment, to actually pass this sort of testing. You just have to continue doing the behavior you want to do, in the face of her anger and/or fail to perform the task she is demanding of you.
And bear in mind that most women aren’t even consciously aware of themselves doing this sort of thing. They don’t even know why they turn into venomous screechtards, they can even start turbocharging their dislike of the husband by “Hating that I turn into this screaming bitch around him. I’m not like that!”

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Comments

  1. David Collard says:

    I dealt with this an hour ago. I suspect they all do it. Wives don't seem to do sensible much. As the saying goes, they are either at your throat or at your feet.

    Don't bicker. If she says something really stupid or unfair, correct her once. Speak forcibly once, then be quiet. Don't escalate. Don't bicker. Your "frame" should be correcting an overwrought child.

    Ignoring, taking a while to answer, use of humour, laughing at her, can all help
    defuse the situation.

    Women are perpetually resentful underneath with the world. There is no point in
    trying to justify yourself or use logic with a cranky woman. Time, sometimes even five or ten minutes, is the healer.

    David Collard

  2. hans says:

    And here I´m having a nice peaceful Sunday afternoon and was on the verge of feeling lonely.

    Thnx so much for this article, cured my "miserable" single life blues mighty quick.

    :P

  3. Ryan says:

    I sometimes have a problem with this as well. She doesn't have outbursts, tantrums or bouts of anger, but when I'm not doing exactly what she wants she'll pick on me and I usually respond with anger.

    Athol, would you consider displaying "anger" in response to her considered a display of submission?

  4. Anonymous says:

    Would actually never get angry at my dh doing something accidentally to the garage door,or forgetting something or just making a mistake.

    Are the men here talking about anger that seems unfair or too frequent? There are some marriage problems that are repeated so often it sure can lead to an angry response.

    I do think women should be much more careful with emotions linked to PMS. It is not fair to treat anyone badly because you are on edge for that reason. Men certainly are aware of this response from women but it is impossible for them to experience it (not excusing it). It feels like your last nerve is being shredded,your body has become a water balloon and you are really,really tired. It is a challenge under those circumstances to untangle whether it is your hormones speaking or there is a real issue going on.

    One area of confusion between the sexes seems to be that when a woman has something bothering her
    and there is a lot of emotion attached to it the problem can be dismissed by the husband just because she is emotional about it (sad,angry,afraid,etc.). Then the feeling of being dismissed ends up fueling some anger. Then he gets angry at her "irrational" response. Is this making any sense?

    Maturity and self-discipline can pare down the anger response but you have to want to do it. If a woman has gotten into the bad habit and the spoiled behavior of getting irritated and blowing up at everything Athol sounds like he has a good plan here. Just saying to be careful a man is husband is being careful to notice if a bigger issue that has not been settled is leading to a general unhappiness which is leading to all these smaller skirmishes, If that is the case walking away and giving her a time out won't help but temporarily.

  5. Anonymous says:

    Yes, anon, that makes perfect sense.

    The big question is, how on earth is he supposed to know what's going on when I don't always? It is maddening to have someone dismiss a real issue because they think you're just having hormone problems, but then again, if it really is an attack of the hormones, there is no better solution than walking away.

    If I realize I'm hormonal I try to announce that fact, but it isn't always easy in the heat of the moment to say it or accept it (i.e. it takes maturity and self-discipline :-) ). In the meantime, I think that's why Athol recommends giving it space as the default reaction. Even a real issue is probably better discussed calmly, as long as it is discussed eventually!

  6. JCclimber says:

    To Anonymous,
    anyone using dh or Dear Husband to refer to their spouse sends up immediate red flags that she feels some level of contempt or disrespect for her spouse.

    Pretty much universal across the internet. It tells me that you are used to putting him down in other forums.

  7. Anonymous says:

    Disagree strongly with JCclimber on that – on the places where I hang out online, "DH" is simply shorthand for "my husband" – nothing more.

  8. Anonymous says:

    Yeah, I always read DH as neutral shorthand.

  9. Anonymous says:

    I think a lot of women use DH, DS, and DD online to refer to their immediate family members. And I agree – it is neutral.

  10. Anonymous says:

    I think Athol is onto something key here. That is her losing attration as a result of his reacting to her anger. I know many couples where this is exactly what has happened to them and they don't even know why they have lost it. With her attraction gone the relationship is dying a slow death.

    My question is. Can the attraction return after correcting this? How long does it take? Any experiences out there with re-gaining lost attraction.

  11. Anonymous says:

    Anon 4:44 PM,

    I too am interested in answers to your important questions.

    "Can the attraction return after correcting this? How long does it take? Any experiences out there with re-gaining lost attraction."

    David Collard,

    If you are correct that many "women are perpetually resentful underneath with the world," in your opinion what it the cause of the resentfulness?

  12. Anonymous says:

    Tell me again why I should bother with women or marriage? Remind me why I should morally and legally dedicate myself to a life of psychological head games, emotional manipulation, and sharing a house with a spoiled, selfish, immature child who subconsciously expects me to be her Daddy (and that's assuming she's one of the "good ones"!)? On top of that, if I don't deliver my "Game" just right, sweetheart gets bored and "falls out of love with me", witholds sex, has an affair, and then proceeds to crush my life into little pieces via our wonderful legal system. Riiiiiight. Maybe I'm missing something but what exactly do *I* get out of this deal again? All I see are men being required to cater their behavior to suit the emotional whims of women while trying to convince themselves they're really clever for doing so. Why aren't women required to just grow the Hell up, take responsibility for their behavior, and quit acting like selfish, bratty children and learn to get along with men? Or is that just too much to ask?

    I'll be honest guys – Game just makes me hate women.

  13. Kiwi the Geek says:

    Anonymous, from what I've read of Game, it's based on a lowest common denominator of women. Some women do "grow up, take responsibility for their behavior, and quit acting like selfish, bratty children". The two anonymous women above sound like they have.

  14. Anonymous says:

    Anon 8:37 – you're completely right, you should definitely not get married.

  15. Anonymous says:

    Anon 8.37 – the truth is, although I find the idea of what Athol characterises as "Alpha-Beta balance" compelling and helpful, I don't think Game's conception of women is valid or overarchingly true. If Game is making you hate women, look to some of the relationships around you that you feel are working, seek knowledge of more mature and sensible women… and step away from Game. People call it the red pill, but sometimes it's a hallucinagen and a bad trip.

  16. David Collard says:

    I think men are just basically happier than women. It probably has some evolutionary basis, noting too that humans generally are not designed to be happy but to be effective at reproductive and other goals. Women need resources and constant assurance. Complaining about their lot makes sense because they get attention and more resources.

  17. Anonymous says:

    "If I realize I'm hormonal I try to announce that fact, but it isn't always easy in the heat of the moment to say it or accept it"

    This is so true. I call my wife out when PMS has her acting up, and let her know that I am not interested in dealing with it. (Slight twist on Athol's advice – instead of me withdrawing, I send her away) She has never admitted it while in the midst of PMS. In fact, she vehemently denies it. But I refuse to deal with it, and after it is over and she is 'normal' again she usually either apologizes or the matter is just dropped.

  18. Anonymous says:

    Addendum to the above post: Over not too much time, the unacceptable behavior gradually lessened and eventually disappeared, even when the hormones flowed. We're going on 22 years, stable and happy.

  19. pdwalker says:

    Anon 8:37,

    A good relationship makes everything better. "Game" is just a tool to help you understand the incredible differences between men and women and how to make the relationships work in a way that is harmonious with our basic biology.

    Learn it, and use it. It's surprisingly easy, and incredibly effective. Over time, it becomes effortless.

    The biggest change a man needs to make is to stop putting women publicly on a pedestal. Yes, I want to put my wife there, but having done so and seen how counter productive it really is, I know now that I cannot. Instead, I do the things that make her happy which makes everyone happy. Gaming my wife? Absolutely!

    Face it, we're still animals with animal instincts that drives much of what we do. Fight it, or accept it. If that makes you hate women, so be it. Maybe you'll get lucky and meet the perfect Vulcan female who can take a completely rational approach to a relationship. Good luck. For the rest of us Earthlings, we'll have to make do with the females that we have available to us.

  20. David Collard says:

    I second pdwalker. Game works. It has helped my marriage of 25 years. Treat her like a woman NOT a queen.

  21. Rmaxd says:

    Wow, Athol admits women try to emasculate men in a marriage …

    Now discuss the biological reasons why a woman tries to emasculate a man, AFTER she's married him for over 10+ years…

    Here's a hint, it's not because she's trying to determine if he's still an alpha

    & it's not because it turns her on …

  22. Rmaxd says:

    @Kiwi the Geek

    Women NEVER stop testing men & they never stop trying to emasculate men

    As athol points out in his other posts, this is part of their biology …

    So if you want to marry a chick .. suck it up, be a man, this is what you're basically in for, for life …

    A life time of shit tests, & daily attempts at petty emasculation, along with a hundred & one other things … lol

  23. Scott says:

    Sounds like Anon's in a lot of pain. Talk about the glass half empty…

    "If you see it you be it." I'd look in the mirror, my friend. Something tells me you've got a lot of self-loathing. Go easy on yourself. All that judging from your childhood wasn't true – it was them working out their own issues. You're an awesome person under it all. Learn to lead with your heart and you'll get what rewards another's heart offers.

  24. Rmaxd says:

    @Anon

    "Why aren't women required to just grow the Hell up, take responsibility for their behavior, and quit acting like selfish, bratty children and learn to get along with men? Or is that just too much to ask?

    I'll be honest guys – Game just makes me hate women. "

    To get to this point women need to be conditioned by a strong alpha …

    Also a strong alpha requires, ice cold aloofness, brutal detachment, & ice cold indifference … also you have to be totally unreactive to her emotions

    Most guys are simply unable to get to this point … hence game emulates the rules of a strong alpha to get a woman to the point where she is submissive enough she no longer requires constant game & cold detachment …

  25. Ethan Blue says:

    Rmaxd

    Wow, Athol admits women try to emasculate men in a marriage …

    Now discuss the biological reasons why a woman tries to emasculate a man, AFTER she's married him for over 10+ years…

    Here's a hint, it's not because she's trying to determine if he's still an alpha

    & it's not because it turns her on …

    I give up.

  26. Athol Kay says:

    Wow, Athol admits women try to emasculate men in a marriage …

    Wow, Fitness Testing is a central theme in Athol's work.

  27. Rmaxd says:

    @Ethan Blue

    It's because the only way to satisfy a womans hypergamy, is because she isnt in a harem …

    Women are biologically wired to be in a harem or large tribal settings, where a woman mate's for 7 years & as she becomes infertile, she makes room for a newer fertile model

    If a woman isnt with a man, with a large selection of women, she will continously try & test him, as she no longer receives environmental cues from a large group of women, to prove the man is still an alpha

  28. Rmaxd says:

    "Wow, Fitness Testing is a central theme in Athol's work. "

    Hi athol,

    yes it is, but you're not explicit about it, i realise you need to change things for your readers, it would be nice if you discussed where you get your sources from, time to time

    For example your readers letter below, is an excellent example of outcome independance, & being unreactive to a woman's outbursts

    On the whole you're explanations make alot of sense, & you're approach to game & pua concepts refreshing

    Also maybe you should consider adding this to your blog …

    All communication is a reward to women, by not responding to her outbursts, by depriving her of communication

    you force her into a forward pleasure seeking response, where she's forced to seek pleasure instead of pain from a lack of stimulus, ie in this case communication

    Women dont think logically, women think socially, by altering your communication, you alter your social context to her ..

    Your readers email, is a prime example of what im referring to :

    "I have been working on this and it has actually worked. I am faking it at first, because as I walk away from her when she is starting to get upset, I am actually holding back my emotions (something that she either can't or won't do, and admittedly, I have sometimes reacted with equal anger to hers in the past). "

  29. Athol Kay says:

    yes it is, but you're not explicit about it, i realise you need to change things for your readers, it would be nice if you discussed where you get your sources from, time to time

    Chapters 10-12 in the book pretty much focus on it, so it's not really hidden.

    Sources are tricky to cite because I'm honestly not always aware of them exactly anymore. What I'm pushing out is kinda like sausage… hard to pick out the beef from the pork anymore. I pretty much read a shit ton of stuff for a few years on this and didn't expect to write anything serious about it.

    I'm not going to have time to reverse course and endlessly cite things for the 2012 edition, but very much hoping I can start adding that in for the 2013 edition.

    If I had waited until the book was exactly how I wanted it, I'd never have finished it. So it is impefect, but still useful right now.

  30. Rmaxd says:

    Athol, i dont mean cite sources, its pretty obvious you cant really cite exact sources with game …

    I meant give some background on the terms you use, in your blog posts … ie you use the term takeaway in your latest post, but dont explain how its used ie by a gamer or pua

    But i think it will dilute your posts if you start discussing pua

    Maybe a short description outside the context of marriage perhaps?

    Im just concerned blog readers who arent familiar with the game terms, will just end up misapplying it without a correct understanding of the background of the term

    For example the term takeaway & your use of it, in your latest post could easily be thought of as a fake ultimatum, without the correct background of the need for the takeaway

    Instead of the obvious gaining some masculinity back in the relationship … to rekindle the wife's attraction …

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