Asking Her Permission To Be Sexually Dominant Ruins It

Reader comment:  I have discovered that my wife WANTS me to make the move. She will hardly ever initiate. But she NEVER says no and always is enthusiastic when I do.
I am like Chip. It takes some getting used to, to just assert your sexuality, admit that you want to get laid and take what is yours.
But my wife even told me a while back to just ignore her protests that she has some blah blah blah thing she has to do for the next hour and can you wait until after that. She told me to let the cake burn in the oven. Just take her by the hand and tell her “we’re doing it now”.
How cool is that? My wife told me that she is available anytime anywhere. I just have to be man enough to demand it and she will go for it.
Athol’s advice has been an epic win for my wife and I. She MELTS when I dominate her. Who would have known? This is not what men are taught these days.
Athol:  There’s a sort of a quantum leap between weakly asking for sex and making a stronger statement that sex will be happening. The husband is too afraid to make the jump without reassurance that she isn’t going to react very badly to him, and for the wife, giving him reassurance she won’t react badly kills her reaction to being dominated.
You can’t ask for permission to dominate in the moment because it ruins it. Asking for permission means you’re far more the submissive than the dominant. “Please Mistress, may I serve you by pulling your hair and spanking you?”  See, just doesn’t work does it.
However you can have that conversation outside of the bedroom, without having that same ruining effect happening. You can clear dominance ahead of time and then just move forward with actual attempts later on. The first few times probably won’t feel all that powerful, but if she likes it, then she likes it, and that will encourage further attempts to be more interesting.
The very simple move to try out first is ye olde missionary position, but doing it rougher than you have done it in the past. Just crank it up 15-20% rougher than your previous maximum. Gauge her response. You may be surprised at how much she likes it.
Don’t worry about hurting her, as long as she’s wet / lubed enough you can’t really hurt her in that position. Vaginas are designed to survive eight pound babies squeezing out of them, so a standard issue penis isn’t going to tear her open unless you’re Superman. Actually now that I think of it, wouldn’t Lois Lane having sex with Superman be kinda risky? I mean never mind ripped condoms, wouldn’t he just blow her head off when he comes?
Anyway…. I’ve actually experimented with trying to have sex in that position at my 100% full force maximum. Jennifer liked it. It’s not an everyday thing by any means, but it’s in the rotation. Personally I don’t enjoy the sex itself that way as much as I do other less aggressive ones, Jennifer clinging and snuggling into me afterwards is very enjoyable.
Jennifer: I do enjoy that style of sex, but like Athol said, it’s not an everyday thing. He always teases me a little for the snuggling too.  (And thanks for the comment…it’s really good to hear when things are working!)

Comments

  1. Anonymous says:

    Heh.
    Just sent a sexually submissive man over to your site. He needs to learn that being sexually submissive doesn't mean he should act like a pushover. :)

    Clarence

  2. My experience:

    Me: Do you mind if I start just going for what I want without asking permission?
    Her: Do you mind if I wear a low-cut blouse?

  3. Hehe. The "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" reference was a nice touch.

  4. we are still working on this angle. i actually just decided to take charge of things and not wait for him, to get us "back in the saddle" as it were.

    when he is weak about it, i'm not interested, and I do test him. THe other day, he said "give me a kiss" and I said "no" and instead of just taking the damn thing, he goes "please?" and then goes "but i want one!" in increasing levels of infantile, needy whiney statements, until I just look at him and say "are you going to take the damn thing or not?"

    It's like he can't figure it out. makes me crazy. I do want to be dominated (at least sometimes), and it's great if he says "give me a kiss" but isn't it better if he goes "give me a K—" and that's it? Yes, I think it is better.

    when will he get it? *bangs head against wall*

  5. Actually unless Superman makes holes in the toilet he seemed to be able to have normal human interactions. We discussed this at length and the usual consensus is that since superman has superstructure he also has super control of that strength. Sorry can't let a nerdy argument like this go incomplete :p

  6. In my mind, clearing sexual behaviour beforehand is essential to consent and not inconsistent with the man leading.

    In addition, it helps to talk things through so both people are on the same page. My ex just tried stuff and it was annoying and confusing, my current partner and I discuss everything and agree on what we do. It's heaps more exciting … and successful!

    Also, we need to remember that some men are less able to read minds than others. Therefore, it is necessary to state needs explicitly and train them a little – perhaps it could be framed as managing up? I'd suggest not being too precious about telling them what is required!

    NOTE: Some mature aged ladies are a little more fragile than younger women – thinner vaginal walls, less lubrication etc. I'd definitely suggest gaining permission / making plans before any rough sexual play.

    :-) C

  7. Athol Kay says:

    I had to Google that.

    Damnit! I must have read that at some point and the joke stuck in my head. Grrrrrr.

  8. Anonymous says:

    "…Vaginas are designed to survive eight pound babies squeezing out of them, so a standard issue penis isn't going to tear her open…"

    Tell that to any woman who has suffered bruising, dragging, stretching or bleeding from intercourse! Or had him hammer into your cervix, or clonk an ovary, bringing tears to your eyes.

    You're a nurse. You ought to know better.

  9. Athol Kay says:

    What the hell are you doing to "clonk an ovary"?

    If you're experiencing pain during sex, stop immediately. "Ow" is a safeword.

    Thanks for the shaming.

  10. Anonymous says:

    See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1114576/

    "Deep dyspareunia
    Deep dyspareunia, often described as pain resulting from pelvic thrusting during sexual intercourse, is also common and has many causes. Major causes include pelvic inflammatory disease; gynaecological, pelvic, or abdominal surgery; postoperative adhesions; endometriosis; genital or pelvic tumours (including fibroids); irritable bowel syndrome; urinary tract infections; and ovarian cysts. A common cause is positional, with deep thrusting by the woman’s partner hitting an ovary (equivalent to hitting or squeezing a man’s testicle)."

    Once felt, never forgotten, I can tell you.

  11. Athol Kay says:

    And this happened when you were well lubricated in the missionary position with a standard issue penis involved?

  12. Anonymous says:

    Yes. On more than one occasion.

  13. Anonymous says:

    LOL "standard issue penis" Ten hup!

  14. Anonymous says:

    Buy the primer for him.

  15. Odds came in first with the Larry Niven reference.

    Z

  16. Athol Kay says:

    Your ovaries should not be able to be hit in that position. The causes for dyspareunia are either positional or medical, so that basically leaves a medical issue as the problem. If you haven't seen a GYN you should asap.

    (If the missionary position allowed hitting of the ovaries, hundreds of millions of women would experience it fairly routinely. They don't.)

  17. lovesexandmarriage says:

    Great advise. Be straight up about it when talking to your man, because, as mentioned above, they can't read minds and sometimes don't pick up on things right away. You can't just say "Anytime you want sex, I'll do it." Because then when you say "no" they back off. Our men have been trained throughout their lives that "No means no." So to them, "No" doesn't mean "I'm busy right now and have things to do. But if you demand it off me and take the option of saying no away, I'll be so turned on that I'm willing to setg aside work/dishes/laundry…" You need to explain it. I think I may have this conversation tonight! :)

  18. Anonymous says:

    "The very simple move to try out first is ye olde missionary position, but doing it rougher than you have done it in the past. Just crank it up 15-20% rougher than your previous maximum. Gauge her response. You may be surprised at how much she likes it."

    I tried this. She pushed me off, flailing her arms and yelling "What the hell sort of pervy stuff have you been reading to get this idea from? Stop it, it's horrible, you're frightening me!"

    We haven't had sex since, and won't until I get counselling for my "violent, aggressive tendencies".

  19. Anonymous says:

    "LOL "standard issue penis" Ten hup!"

    There are many like it, but this one is mine…

  20. Anonymous says:

    " If you haven't seen a GYN you should asap."

    Why? So I can be gutted like a fish just so my husband can follow your advice? No thank you!

  21. Athol Kay says:

    Why? So I can be gutted like a fish just so my husband can follow your advice? No thank you!

    No. Because it sounds like there may be an underlying medical issue you have going undiagnosed. The most likely explanation I can think of for this happening is ovarian cysts. But then I'm not a doctor and doing this over the internet.

    Hence my advice to see a GYN.

  22. Athol Kay says:

    Which is why the paragraph before that was so important…

    However you can have that conversation outside of the bedroom, without having that same ruining effect happening. You can clear dominance ahead of time and then just move forward with actual attempts later on. The first few times probably won't feel all that powerful, but if she likes it, then she likes it, and that will encourage further attempts to be more interesting.

    Talk first, then try the rough stuff.

  23. Anonymous says:

    We did. When it came down to it, she didn't like the reality at all…

  24. Athol Kay says:

    Well if it was consentually agreed on to try it, and you stopped when asked because she didn't like it, I'm not sure why you need to go to counseling.

  25. Because having rough sex, where I got at her like you describe, is "violent and aggressive".

  26. So when did all this happen? Have you shown her where you got the idea from?

    It doesn't seem like a reasonable request to send you to counseling simply because she didn't like a consentual sex act that stopped when she asked it to.

  27. What I have tried is more like 10-15% and turn it up about 5% each time until I feel it is enough for her. I have also found that she likes that better around her ovulation time.

  28. Two thoughts come to mind – either she had a very bad sexual experience in the past (rape, abuse, some other very bad thing) or she is completely entrenched in the feminist idea that male sexuality is inherently evil. Also, it probably won't work if you don't have at list a bit of fairly good stuff going on in the marriage, you are working a good alpha/beta balance, etc.

  29. Yup. Felt it here too, and dh is not overly well endowed. usually worse around ovulation time when it's swollen ready to release the egg or perhaps has a cyst (lots of times they are benign and just burst on their own). Cervical position can change and can cause pain with deep thrusting–but it doesn't mean a trip to the gyn is in order. If it happened ALL the time, yes…but on occasion, I'd chalk it up as normal.

  30. I like the domination aspect, but only if he's earned it by working the MAP. Don't just flip the script on me and expect me to respond if you are not building the actual attraction. To me, this is a post for guys who are in the more advanced stage of the process and have already evened out the sex rank and built some attraction back.

  31. Anonymous says:

    I am the OP here. You are right. Before MMSL, I actually still had her attraction and our sex was 1/week but not always enthusiastic ("oh I have so much to do, can't it wait"). But just upping the alpha and cockiness really made my wife respond. Now we have it whenever I want. My wife likes sex but could go months without needing it. But she is very happy to address my needs. She likes that there is no unspoken expectation that she should be initiating sometimes. She would much rather not have to think about it until I am asking for it. Takes the pressure off of her.

  32. Sweet as,

    "when he is weak about it, i'm not interested, and I do test him. THe other day, he said "give me a kiss" and I said "no" and instead of just taking the damn thing, he goes "please?" and then goes "but i want one!" in increasing levels of infantile, needy whiney statements, until I just look at him and say "are you going to take the damn thing or not?"

    It's like he can't figure it out. makes me crazy. I do want to be dominated (at least sometimes), and it's great if he says "give me a kiss" but isn't it better if he goes "give me a K—" and that's it? Yes, I think it is better.

    when will he get it? *bangs head against wall*"

    What you're fighting is a lifetime of (feminist-tinged) programming that women are just like men, that they will present their sexual desires above the board, that we should "ask for consent" (nothing kills the tingle faster in my first-person live field surveys), and that if you don't back down the moment she bumps back on your advances you're a dirty creepy rapist. I've said it many times and will many more times, you cannot underestimate the degree to which more than a generation of men were trained from birth to be sexually passive and unmasculine. It's analogous to the church ladies who were trained that sex was bad and not to be enjoyed; it doesn't turn around easily.

    This is the mind-blowing thing about fitness tests, when modern men learn about them they don't want to believe that women have been bullshitting them trying to get them to react and stand up to them. It really does take time (years even) to deprogram from the old mindset and be a leader.

    And there's this:

    "But my wife even told me a while back to just ignore her protests that she has some blah blah blah thing she has to do for the next hour and can you wait until after that. She told me to let the cake burn in the oven. Just take her by the hand and tell her "we're doing it now"."

    There's a couple things here that irk men. First is the idea that she wants a big to-do about him insisting on sex, she can't just go have sex with him like a couple does other things like going to the store or eating dinner. It's exhausting to play this "no we're doing it NOW!" game with a woman even when you know she wants you to drag her to the cave. There's something very childish about it, and just as women don't marry men to be their mothers, men don't marry women to be their fathers.

    The other thing is as above – given the mores we've been raised with, to insist in a firm tone that she drop whatever she's doing and her panties sounds a little bit rapetastic, and even if you've known a woman a while it can be hard to tell if she's playing the token-resistance game or if she REALLY doesn't want to do it and you are trending into rape territory. I think it goes without saying that we don't want to be rapists.

  33. I am Chip referred to in the original post. My wife is exactly as your wife. She enjoys sex but does not think about it much. That always bothered me until I read MMSL and other articles. Here is a great blot about "Responsive Desire":
    http://enagoski.wordpress.com/2010/02/27/do-you-know-when-you-want-it/

    Now, I can have sex just about any time I want, and 95% of the time she gets into it. She has some health issues, so when she says, "no" she really can't. It is never an "excuse."

  34. Anonymous says:

    Badger said:
    "The other thing is as above – given the mores we've been raised with, to insist in a firm tone that she drop whatever she's doing and her panties sounds a little bit rapetastic, and even if you've known a woman a while it can be hard to tell if she's playing the token-resistance game or if she REALLY doesn't want to do it and you are trending into rape territory. I think it goes without saying that we don't want to be rapists."

    Yep, you can only make that mistake once. And the difference between token-resistance and really saying no is thin, porous, variable and subject to sudden unannounced changes. Like the poor SoB at 01:21 found, it's great until it isn't great, then you're in a world of hurt with no warning.

  35. Anonymous says:

    Thankyou anon 04:51. Sex is perfectly nice unless he decides to start really hammering, at which point to can bloody hurt, and so stops being fun! I don't think I or any woman need a gynaecologist visit just so our husbands can take your advice.

  36. Anonymous says:

    Yes, I showed her your blog. She wasn't impressed. Said none of your ideas did anything for her, and that if I ever tried the smack her ass / pull her hair routine, she'd have the police on me. Said she hadn't gotten married to have to consent to being assaulted.

  37. Badger – "I've said it many times and will many more times, you cannot underestimate the degree to which more than a generation of men were trained from birth to be sexually passive and unmasculine. It's analogous to the church ladies who were trained that sex was bad and not to be enjoyed; it doesn't turn around easily."

    Yep. My current SO has told me straight up that she is pretty much DTF anytime I want if it is currently possible, and yet I STILL struggle with being dominant about it. This weekend I pushed my comfort zone, and it was a rather "productive" weekend. So here I am getting positive results from being more dominant, and the entire time part of my brain is just shy of panic mode because I feel like I'm betraying everything I've been taught about interacting with my mate since I hit puberty.

    Ladies, PLEASE understand this. It is damn hard for us to get over this hangup. Of all the things I was wrong about before finding MMSL, this one is by far the hardest for me to deal with. I have been given permission, by a woman I have been with for over two years, to generally push my way into her pants anytime I'm interested, and I still hesitate ALL THE TIME.

    I can't even say why? I'm not afraid of rejection. I'm not shy or embarrassed around her. It is just that constant nagging in my head that says I am a pervert for wanting sex. That I am being pushy when I escalate without some prior signal of interest. That I am disrespecting her by seeing her as a sexual object.

  38. "and that if I ever tried the smack her ass / pull her hair routine, she'd have the police on me. Said she hadn't gotten married to have to consent to being assaulted."

    Either this is one of the biggest shit test I've ever seen, or you have your hands full…

  39. Ian Ironwood says:

    It's a shit-test of epic proportions, and he lost. He backed down utterly, gave in to her position that what he was doing was "wrong", and therefore his sexuality is "wrong" and in need of correction, and he let her make him feel guilty as hell about even trying to correct a sex life that (I would surmise) she feels is just "okey-dokey", while he feels starved for attention, respect, affection, and sex.

    Just a guess.

    He needs to tell her that he'll consider counseling for aggressive sex the moment she gets back from her first counseling session for sexual inhibition and frigidity. He needs to pump his SR, don't touch her for six months, and let her know in no uncertain terms just how unhappy he is with her unreasonable behavior.

    It takes time and dedication. But when she lays some shit on you like that, that's the only hope you have. Push it back in her face: "If I was satisfied, why do you think I'd try something like that?"

    That was just rude.

  40. Ian Ironwood says:

    Call it "fear of the creep", that anxiety that you will not only be utterly and forcefully rejected, but that you will be held up for shame and public ridicule. It's the sort of fear that gets instilled in you around kindergarten or 1st grade, when you first start having to treat girls differently from boys the first time. For most American men, this is when we were nearly terrorized with the idea that aggressive sexuality or behavior towards women was not just not tolerated, but that it would taint you as a human being in the eyes of all women everywhere.

    That's right, ladies, a lot of us were emotionally brutalized at the idea of being a "sexist" like that. We were taught to cringe and cower before the vagina, not approach it on equal terms. Men and women were equal, we were taught early, it was just that women were more equal than men. Men were the ones who were violent, who were rapists, who were molesters. They were responsible for poisoning the environment, enslaving indigenous peoples, exploiting everyone for everything, and mostly for enslaving women for thousands of years. And no matter what we, as individuals, did or didn't do, we would always be tainted with the Original Sin of having a penis. Better be arrested for grand theft than to be labeled a "creep" — at least a car thief can get laid.

    Yep. It really does feel like that to an awful lot of men. Especially to men without a close relationship to their fathers. And if Dad was divorced and absent, you're lucky he even managed to get married at all. If you want him to rediscover that kind of assertive masculinity, you're going to have to endure a couple of fumbling attempts while he figures it out.

  41. Anonymous says:

    Ian Ironwood – I guess you don't buy that "no means no" then?

  42. Anonymous says:

    On the other hand, I could be concerned that she WILL call the police, at which point telling them "A couple guys on the internet said I should just carry on because she's shit testing me" probably isn't going to help me make bail.

  43. Anonymous says:

    My heart breaks for my man when he tells me his ex called him a pervert. Exact word you used. It crushed him. He is growing and changing, and I *love* experimenting with him. We're both inexoerienced… Me, the good Christian girl, him the shamed.

    You are not seeing her as a sexual *object*. You are.seing her as a sexual being.

  44. Anonymous says:

    I'm in exactly the same boat as Sweet as. To add extra humor, since I've tried explaining it in words, and even said the same thing as the OP's woman (ie, take me whenever you want), it's now gotten to the point that he'll say "give me a kiss" or the equivalent, I will playfully say no, he'll get whiny, and then when he asks what the problem is, apparently I'll give him a look that he describes as "like a wild animal". To me it's just "is it even possible that you still don't know what the problem is??"

    All that to say, probably baby steps are the way to go. It's really, really unlikely you'll get put in the rapist box by your *wife* for just kissing her without asking first. I'm way out of dopamine with my man just now, but that still works. Maybe the key is to realize that you don't have to strike like a ninja or anything, in fact a slow, deliberate approach is incredibly sexy. And meanwhile… it gives your wife time to escape or protest if she wants to. So if she doesn't try to escape or protest, she's all yours. Believe it!

  45. Anonymous says:

    I hate touch screen keyboards! If you can change that "objrct" to "being," you can start appreciating the emotion she's putting into making love with you. Then you can start connecting. It becomes an act of love.

    The most powerful lesson I learned here is that men experience love through sex. My husband worked very hard to build a solid foundation in the idea that I am his woman. None other will do. That created such a safe place for me to open up to him sexually. And that got him through the muck of being told for so many years that he is sick, teisted and warped. He's not, and neither are you.

  46. PS, if you are a man and it makes you tired to think about having to overcome a playful "no" (which you probably wouldn't get if you didn't ask, incidentally) you can always just shrug and go on about your day. Whining is a capital offense, but you're perfectly free to rescind the offer if your woman doesn't appreciate how lucky she is to get it.

  47. Ian Ironwood says:

    Don't be silly. Consent is essential. If a woman says no – and really means no (plenty of women will admit to saying 'no' to an advance simply as a shit test), then you cooly and politely thank her for her time . . . and get the hell away from her. If you're married, then her denial is part of a larger situation which must be viewed in context. If you're single, then you leave her alone and go find a better quality of woman who has the sense to appreciate you. After all, women are everywhere, but decent men are a rarity. And if you aren't decent, then just start talking a lot of shit behind her back. That's the Feminist Way.

    But don't for an instant mistake taking the Red Pill as an excuse or justification for non-consensual sex. Quite the opposite. It involves accepting your responsibility as a man to lead and order. It doesn't give you carte blanche over all you survey. Those who would say otherwise are living in Cupcake Land.

  48. Anonymous says:

    I have young sons. How can I teach them some of these points as they grow up,even prior to various sexual information they will need?
    MMSL primer is too adult for them right now so need a primer for the primer so to speak.

  49. The MacNut says:

    Would be easiest if you've got a man around, preferably their father. Also if you ARE their father. Either way, lead by example-if you're their father, show them how to be by living it with their mother. If you're their mother and living with their father (or step-father) show them by encouraging his efforts to be man of the house and of your relationship.

    If you're a single mother and their father's not around, it'll be harder. Best thing I can tell you is, don't feminize them. Encourage them to be boys, to be rough and tumble, to not be afraid of mice and spiders, to take risks, to get in the occasional fight, to tease girls a bit. It's the boys like this who generally do the best with girls in high school and ultimately end up in happy, lasting relationships and marriages.

    For now, the primer's really a bit too much for them, you can discuss its' points when they become teenagers and are actually interested in girls.

  50. I never clear it before hand, as a cold rational talk. Takes the heat out of it to a considerable degree.

    However I never really force myself on a woman. I'll force past token resistance sometimes, but if it's increasing rather than melting, it's back off time. As in back way off, not partly off. That tends to make girls hotter for it anyway.

  51. Anon 12:01 AM–

    I find you highly obnoxious.

    You're most likely a feminist to boot.

  52. If you don't have kids, I think you should divorce her. She sounds hopelessly feminist.

  53. I have to say, if I was ever given a threat of this nature (to call the cops on me for something so trivial) I would be telling her to pack her stuff and go stay at her mother's for awhile.

    I have NO problem being told that something I want to try is unacceptable to my SO, but I'll be damned if she is going to threaten me with legal action. If she is willing to make the threat, she is likely to follow through even if you did nothing wrong. Its a bomb waiting to go off.

  54. Anonymous says:

    How's it obnoxious for someone to say she likes sex, but that in her personal case, really rough sex causes pain? Everyone's different. No one's trying to stop you and your woman from doing it just as hard and fast as you want.

  55. This is what's obnoxious:

    I don't think I or any woman need a gynaecologist visit just so our husbands can take your advice.

    The point of Athol's advice is to improve marriages and sex within marriages. A whole lot of people have found it helps a lot.

    So yeah it sure as hell IS worth a gynecological exam, since the pain from rough or forceful sex may very well be due to a curable medical condition. Athol's theory of ovarian cysts sounds plausible, and in fact I think I've heard they can cause pain in vigorous or deep penetration, before.

    I'm rather sure her husband would think her visiting a gyno was well worth it to find out.

  56. Anonymous says:

    And what if that doctor visit caught ovarian cancer early? Worth it now?? Y'all are missing Athol's point!!

  57. Anonymous says:

    I'd reconsider that position, Doug. As someone who is the submissive person in a Dom/sub relationship, the conversation (and permission) is NECESSARY. If for nothing else, then for your own safety.
    And those (ongoing) conversations are by no means cold. Good Lord – those are some of the hottest conversations ever. There's something to be said for the act of giving that consent over. He says it was one of the most trusting, giving thing anyone had ever done for him. I feel like I am finally getting to the the person, woman, I have always been but never quite realized. Do some reading on the BDSM interaction. You don't have to be wearing leather and studs and ball gag to be very, very invested in the dynamic. Just taking it is wrong. You might get lucky, and she's secretly pleased. You might get arrested. Consent is important.

  58. tchotchke says:

    How can intercourse, no matter how vigorous, hurt a woman who is willingly participating, therefore at least somewhat lubricated? I’m baffled. (And intrigued…)

  59. tchotchke says:

    My guy wants no approaches from me. He wants it all to be his idea. He hates any discussions about sex. Sometimes we have sex frequently but sometimes time goes by without him approaching and I go silently mad at a week or more. Acting seductive helps but I have to be subtle. He does like to spank me but more as I walk by and he forgets to while we’re in the act. I’d like suggestions on how to have it more often, rougher, and how to help him feel more confident – bolder.

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