Clothes Make The Man

Comments on yesterday’s post…
Anon:  How come there’s never anyone commenting on here who’s a SR 3 and is diligently going to spend the next two years fighting his way up to a 5? Everyone’s a 7 working up to a 9!
Meggerz:  Eh, nobody thinks they are below average. Also, we are still susceptible to projection – because men value appearances so highly, they place undue importance on it when self-evaluating. Same with women and things like stability and personality.
I’m hatching a theory, though: I think men can more rapidly swing between numbers on the low end of the scale, while women can do so on the high end.
For a man, going from a 3 to a 5 could easily result from an attitude adjustment – a jolt of self-confidence (authentically felt or not). For a woman, going from a 7 to a 9 could be a change of clothes and makeup.
Because the 1-10 scale is both personal and sliding, I don’t think we can in any way have consistent unit sizes, or compare them to one another. My 7 is not your 7, and my 3 is not your 3, additionally, my 3-7 span is the same width as your 3-7 span.
In short, I read numbers as relative. 8:9? She is higher than him. 7:9? She is much higher than him. Period.
Athol:  Meggerz is very much on point. The slightly easier answer is just to say that Sex Rank is best viewed as a metaphor and there’s far more art than science as to what makes up any particular number.
In general I don’t talk about people less than a 6 ever, because that way MMSL starts sounding like Fugly Club, and the first rule of Fugly Club is no one wants to buy books about Fugly Club. I also tend not to talk about 10s because suddenly there’s no more room for self-improvement, plus it feels like MMSL is in league with the beautiful people.
You can’t be anyone else anyway. Just figure out the way to be the best version of you that you can be. A pair of sevens can be in love with each other and just as happy as a pair of nines.
I’m going to disagree with the idea that men can kick up a low Sex Rank quickly while a woman can do the same to a higher one. I think the quick swing up in Sex Rank has exactly the same cause – namely clothing, appearance and general confidence. So a crappy male 3 could vault to a 5 with a new wardrobe and haircut, and then have a lot harder time getting from 5 to 6. While a woman who already has a good looking body could vault from 6 to 8 with a new wardrobe, hairdo and makeup. A woman who is 100 pounds overweight simply can’t waltz to being a 9 because she has a rocking hairdo and hot pink lipstick She might go from a 3 to a 5 though. A well off guy that drives a beat up heap and dresses way down, suddenly rocking suits and a BMW can go from 6 to 8 overnight.
The sudden clothing and appearance switch is doubly important because not only does it increase your attractiveness, it signals your purposeful intent to be attractive and is an all purpose “open for business” flag. People can lose a ton of weight / gain muscle and get a moderate increase in opposite sex interest, but when that body shape change is coupled with a sudden new wardrobe, heads turn a whole lot faster.
As a final thought…
Why are they called “Plus Size Models” when the obesity is clearly a minus?

Comments

  1. Mama Fish says:

    LOL @ your plus size joke! You're a bad man who deserves an arm slap!

  2. Plus size models are generally people with larger frames and perhaps with their weight well packed on that frame. Hence, they are often fit and conventionaly atractive people, albeit a tad heavy. People complain when magazines use them and then claim they are using "real sized women" because they are like real models – very well put together!

    I know men that find such ladies really hot and who treat me as non attractive because I am shorter, fine boned and without much curvy padding. As you said, sex rank is a matter of perception!

    I know wealthy, well educated nice men who I think should be more in demand from women and I think this is because they don't have the observable cues, such as dress, nice car etc. I am working on them!

    :-) C

  3. Ian Ironwood says:

    Athol, I would take issue with the idea that chubby folks are automatically at a minus. As Candice mentioned, there are men and women out there who are more attracted to larger-framed people. While there is an argument whether or not these folks are fetishists or just well-adjusted folks who know what they like, the fact is that there are not an insignificant number of them.

    It's hard to nail such things down, but if I had to hang a number on it I'd say that, based on their porn buying habits, anywhere from 5-10% of the male universe out there have an attraction to larger women. For them, subjective sex rank is skewed in that direction. That isn't saying that they will prefer a heftier lady all the time, but that they are at least not put off by "plus sized". And then there is that smaller minority that pursues ample women vigorously and exclusively.

    Just sayin'.

  4. R. Bradley Andrews says:

    I doubt that most men are in that category Ian, though some certainly exist.

    I found the post interesting, though what is a "wardrobe update" can vary too. I remember hearing speakers in the past say a "suit and tie" made you feel more confident, which I saw as a bunch of rubbish. Looking nice is worthwhile though.

    Maybe you need a "guide to looking good on a budget" in the blog. I do not think it is just a matter of cost, though that may be less true for the car, since cost tends to indicate more things.

  5. OffTheCuff says:

    My thoughts.

    First, SMV is not relative – the whole idea is that you're a 6 if most people agree that you are a 6. Of course someone will think you're ugly or hot – that doesn't mean you're a 1 or 9 depending on the view. Otherwise the whole assortive mating thing doesn't make any sense at all if every one is a 10 in at least other person's eyes.

    Plus-size models are usually quite attractive, they still have model-hot faces and proportions (bust/hip waist ratios). You never see an ugly model with a 50-lb beer gut.

    And finally… we don't talk about SMV 0-3 that often. Think of "People of Walmart", nursing home attendants, people who REALLY let themselves go and do absolutely nothing to maintain any sort of attractive traits.

    It's a bit harder to rate men since our true SMV is so bound up in our behavior and status, and short of being famous, that means meeting the person. So, we can be rated on our looks, but the smart guys know it's only just a fraction of the picture.

  6. Anna Beers says:

    Don't fall for the "plus size model" thing. Most plus size models wear straight sizes. They're just not waify. As far as I know, most plus size models start at a US size 6-8 and run to a size 14-16. They are still much taller than the average woman and can carry more weight; just may have larger, more muscular frames than standard models like Candice said. Barely any of them would actually be large enough to wear real plus sized clothing (Lane Bryant, for example). Don't fall for the idea that they're fat.

  7. Tanner @ Masculine Style says:

    The reason an appearance upgrade is so beneficial to men is because a man who dresses well conveys respect for both himself and those around him. Sloppy and overly-casual dressing convey either ignorance or apathy – neither of which turns women on.

  8. Anonymous says:

    In many ways, though, it is relative. If you're 45 you might be a 9 to women ages 35-40, but a 7 to women in their 20s. If you're a fairly average guy who is great husband with an ideal alpha/beta balance, your wife and women close to you are likely to see you as a higher SR than do women who don't know you. Although it's unlikely that the same person could be seen as a 1 or a 10, depending on who's evaluating him/her, it's quite likely that the same person could be seen as 6/7/8 or 7/8/9 by different people.

  9. "I know men that find such ladies really hot and who treat me as non attractive because I am shorter, fine boned and without much curvy padding. As you said, sex rank is a matter of perception!"

    Yes…a matter of perception and preference. My wife is much as you describe about yourself. She is 5'2" and 110 lbs. But OMG!! I think she is so HOT! When she puts on her size 4 skinny jeans or short shorts…WOW!!!

  10. Anonymous says:

    Alright, enough of this nonsense. Plus size models are just fine and dandy for selling big dresses to heavy chicks. But we all know that the ideal is for a woman to be thin, toned, with nice breasts. Think Miss America, or Victory's Secrect models. Are they "plus sized"? Hell no. And for good reason. Fat women look pregnant and that is an instant turn off to a man's Body Agenda. Weight is one of the few things we have a tremendous amount of control over. Anyone reading this post could change their body's composition via working out and diet if they cared enough to do so. Yes, I know that curves are attractive, and yes I know that overly thin women have their own issues to overcome. The the hard truth is that we have an epidemic of fat people in the world and telling each other that it's okay (or even good!) is a huge disservice to all. Women, I'm sorry, but you're judged by your looks. If you're fat, that is the #1 thing you need to fix immediately. It's like a guy who's broke, out of work, and doesn't want to find a job. It's not okay. He must fix that situation or watch his SMV plunge. So ladies, trust me, I'm being a true friend here. You must always work to be the skinniest, hottest version of you that you can be if you want your SMV to increase (or stay the same as you age).

  11. thediverdown says:

    I was flipping through channels the other day and caught a 30 second snippet of America's Next Top Model. Their "plus size" model is a size 6.

    The modeling industry traditionally uses women who are around size 0 for a reason: less fabric, less expensive, and standardizing the size of models (at 0) means that one designer doesn't have to tailor fit everything they make to fit the model that's going down the runway last minute. "Plus sized" just refers to anyone who doesn't fit into that conventional modelesque body type.

    For the guy up there ^ who wrote about his hot size 4 wife: many designers would treat her as a plus-sized model. So am I: a 24 year old at the peak of my health, wearing dress size six. Then again, so's Queen Latifah at size 10. Or 12. Or whatever it she wears. As Anna Beers pointed out, "plus size" doesn't mean fat. Or even curvy. Or even chubby. It just means that they fall outside the body type of the typical runway model. For those of you who don't find size 0 ladies attractive, that's probably a good thing.

  12. Athol Kay says:

    The modeling industry uses size 0 models because its aimed at pleasing gay men rather than straight ones.

  13. thediverdown says:

    I can see the appeal for standardizing sizing to a small size. Less expensive, less fabric, and the designer can make their prototypes to fit a known body size rather than have to do massive alterations.

    But I still almost fell off the bed laughing when they called this smoking hot 5'10" size six blonde babe a "plus sized" model.

  14. There are other blogs for discussing fashion and clothes sizing. I recommend Fashion Incubator.

    But this blog focuses on how to remain attractive and high Sex Rank in the eyes of your spouse.

    Some men think model thin women are hot. Others like woman-shaped women. Still others like some extra padding. Only fetishists or the morbidly obese will think a morbidly obese woman is hot. [Morbid = 100+ pounds over ideal weight.] If an overweight woman is married to a man who likes curves, dieting may improve her SR, but not if she becomes stick thin.

    Remember that Sex Rank = ability to produce superior children. "Good" (as defined by society) clothing shows this in two ways:

    1) it shows the body underneath, and that the genetics are right;

    2) it shows the wearer has enough wealth and power to ensure his/her children will do well.

    I'm drawn to techno-geek billionaires … I can tell the difference between an unusual geeky t-shirt and a Wal-Mart special . And even in the t-shirt and jeans crowd, the man in the black turtleneck, perfectly fitting jeans, and a blazer jacket gets an extra point for his clothing. [Or he would, if Steve Jobs were still alive.]

    Z

  15. No, it's because most male fashion designers are gay pederasts, and size zero women are the nearest thing they can get to early teenage boys on the catwalk

  16. …and the homophobes come marching out on cue!

    Clothes hang, drape, swirl, & photograph better on skinny bodies; think human coat hangers. Lady lumps tend to get in the way; the clothes are the focus, not the boobs and bums. It's really not a gay conspiracy against straight men or a way to "oppress" women.

    (actually, there are some straight male fashion designers and they still use thin models; it's just the standard)

  17. Yeah, I once helped my friend do a photoshoot with some "plus size" models. I was expecting them to be bigger girls, so I was surprised when I saw how healthy-looking they actually were. They weren't waifs, but they were still clearly in great shape. Gorgeous faces, hourglass body type. I honestly think that most men would find them attractive.

  18. Anonymous says:

    Do you know what type of woman most men think are the hottest?

    The ones that laugh at their jokes and are attracted to the man.

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