Getting Her To Pull Your Lever

Reader:  Follow-up question:  I like your analogy of the rat pulling the lever for a pellet of food.  If the rat always gets a pellet then the rat will only show moderate interest and only when its hungry.  If the pellet is random then the rat will get a bit more frantic about trying the lever.  If we apply this to the “initiating attention” question then it would seem that a women would never have to show overt interest because she can count on the getting attention/sex anytime she wants.  For example, my wife has probably been rejected for sex maybe 1 or 2 times in our marriage so the lever gives her a pellet anytime she wants it.  So obviously she doesn’t spend a lot of time pulling it.
My question is “is there any merit to holding back attention from your wife randomly and even sometime declining her for sex in an effort to get her to want it more”?
Athol:  You have that analogy correct. And yes there would be some benefit in mixing things up a little on her, but…
… the real trick is determining who is the rat and who is the lever.
If she’s in charge of the relationship / hotter than you, you’re the rat and she’s the lever. So you have to pull on the lever as many times as she likes before getting the sexual payoff. This is the whole Nice Guy trap of trying to please her, where the more you please her, the less payoff you get. Reducing your lever pulling efforts will likely result in her paying out an extra time or two, but it won’t really fix your problem of her basically not being wildly attracted to you. It’s more like a casino comping you free drinks; they still want you to be a sucker, they’re just trying to keep you at the table.
That is incidentally why when a husband has an emotional outburst about not having enough sex and being wildly unhappy in the marriage, he gets immediately laid by his wife. Once. Maybe twice. Then the crisis is over and she goes back to her baseline of disinterest. It’s about the same thing as “Oh wait don’t go! Here’s a Martini and $100 in free chips for our VIP player!”
However, once you start trumping her Sex Rank and start gaining control of the relationship, you become the lever and she becomes the rat. If you’re offering very high quality food pellets, many other rats will become quite interested in pulling your lever. Which would mean she would have to spend extra time clinging to the lever and pulling on it every time a food pellet was ready for delivery.
Then you just decide to become a high payout lever. Your rat is also pretty happy about having a high payout lever to pull and stays alert to guard it from other rats.
Of course once you’re the lever, mixing up the payoff results is particularly effective.
Be high quality food. 

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Comments

  1. OffTheCuff says:

    Athol: "the real trick is determining who is the rat and who is the lever."

    I nominate this for Quote of the Year. I can't stop laughing.

  2. Anonymous says:

    So how do you know when you've become the lever? Is it basically at the point when you can get sex pretty much on demand?

  3. elhaf says:

    Certain types of food makes me want her to pull my finger.

    @Anonymous, it's when she can no longer get sex on demand.

  4. Anonymous says:

    My advice to any young man considering marriage–never, ever marry someone with a higher sex rank than you and make sure it never flip flops. She will be happy to be in the relationship with someone she is grateful to have and you will be confident that you can find someone better if things don't work out. This keeps you in a position of power in the relationship, i.e. the lever. Athol's advice is dead on.

  5. rgoltn says:

    That was me in a nutshell 8 months ago. I am a recovering "Mr. Nice Guy," complete with neediness, desire to please and hoping for "scraps" of sex. I bought the book and have been working on my inner game and elevating my SR. My wife is a 9; I am told by numerous friends both male and female. She is 45, like me, and is definitely the "Hot Chick" amongst her friends. She may have a lesser rank with younger guys, but in my age group; she is hot.

    My SR has been hovering at 7-8 for a while. However, I am now up a point at 8-9, depending on which of my wife's single and married friends grade me. My wife relates to me the comments what they say to her about me. This is peer affirmation is a big plus that comes with increasing SR in my age brackett. There are a lot of 40+ women who are single and want a guy. My wife has over a dozen girlfriends who are divorced or have never married (Whole other topic.)

    They love me and continue to reinforce what an awesome, great looking guy I am and how lucky she has it. There are also a lot of men in our age brackett and extended social circle, married and single, who are heavy, very beta'sh and lack style, charsima or confidence. That gives me a competitive boost too.

    So, I keep it going. I take the lead, keep her guessing, flirt (innocently) with other women when we are out in groups and ensure that she knows what she has in me. If I ask for sex and she says no; no biggie. I act indifferent. If I have gone too long, I take control.

    For example, one Sunday morning I got up and was heading to the bathroom. Our daughter was asleep upstairs. It had been a little over a week and I was getting a ornery. She asked what I was doing as I headed to the bathroom to piss. I did not look at her and said in a very matter of fact way, "I am going to take a leak and then come back and fuck you."

    A second before, she was under the covers, half asleep. When I got back to the room and closed the door, she was heading back from the other bathroom and her top was coming off. I fucked the shit out of her and dumped a huge load. We hung out in bed for a while afterwards before she got up and cleaned up.

    I would not have made it to this point without doing the opposite; not begging for sex, not being needy and shifting control. MMSL has been very trasnformative for me. Practice what it preaches. It does take some time, but it works.

  6. Anonymous says:

    How come there's never anyone commenting on here who's a SR 3 and is diligently going to spend the next two years fighting his way up to a 5? Everyone's a 7 working up to a 9!

  7. Anonymous says:

    Why would anyone plan to spend the rest of their life with a double-bagger? It's like aspiring to drive a clapped-out low end Ford for the rest of your life!

  8. Anonymous says:

    But, if even the Alpha guy who out ranks her by a point still has to initiate sex 90% of time. Even Athol admits that in his case. So what do you mean when "she can no longer get sex on demand"? Are you saying that at this point the higher ranked guy would start rejecting her for sex occasionally, which would imply that she would have to be the initiator of sex to be rejected?

  9. Anonymous says:

    I think the solution is both parties should perceive their partner to be totally wonderful and attractive and so perfect for them! We both thought ourselves unattractive until we met and now all that adoration has given us so much more individual confidence!

    …and what is actually meant by initiation? I find myself starting things off many times when I totally did not mean to and until just recently I thought he was starting everything!

  10. Meggerz says:

    Eh, nobody thinks they are below average. Also, we are still susceptible to projection – because men value appearances so highly, they place undue importance on it when self-evaluating. Same with women and things like stability and personality.

    I'm hatching a theory, though: I think men can more rapidly swing between numbers on the low end of the scale, while women can do so on the high end.

    For a man, going from a 3 to a 5 could easily result from an attitude adjustment – a jolt of self-confidence (authentically felt or not). For a woman, going from a 7 to a 9 could be a change of clothes and makeup.

    Because the 1-10 scale is both personal and sliding, I don't think we can in any way have consistent unit sizes, or compare them to one another. My 7 is not your 7, and my 3 is not your 3, additionally, my 3-7 span is the same width as your 3-7 span.

    In short, I read numbers as relative. 8:9? She is higher than him. 7:9? She is much higher than him. Period.

  11. Meggerz says:

    It's also worth noting that women tend to react more strongly to being sexually rejected than men. We're told men always want sex, so for us to initiate and you to deny us is pretty devastating.

    Neither men nor women like it, but it is more important to one or the other. It's similar to how men tend to react much more strongly to infidelity.

  12. Anonymous says:

    Is flatulence an alpha skill?!

  13. Anonymous says:

    Being rejected feels pretty bad in either direction. Just read posts from men and women alike who are at the end of their rope emotionally because their spouse isn't interested in them sexually and the rejection is killing them. I don't see how its any worse for one sex over the other.

  14. Candice says:

    I vote for no gratuitious rejection! It is pretty demoralising. One can understand if there is a good reason – but most times one can offer a quick solution or indeed get motivated after a little cuddling etc. I am pretty sure more sex rather than less sex via random refusals would make me want to have even more sex. :-) C

  15. GC says:

    Agreed. This whole rat/lever/random refusal train of thought seems a rather harsh and depressing way of looking at sex in marriage.

  16. Anonymous says:

    I guess I'm not getting it, because your advice sounds like you're contradicting yourself.

    Okay, if you're constantly asking for sex you look desperate and lower your apparent rank. You give her the power. I get that.

    But in an earlier post, Athol, you say you initiate sex about 90 percent of the time. Isn't that the same thing?

    Plus there's a slightly facile, underpants-gnomes quality to saying "make yourself more attractive and she'll want sex with you more." It's kind of like saying "make yourself ficher and you'll have more money." Great.

  17. 446 says:

    Quote: "Plus there's a slightly facile, underpants-gnomes quality to saying "make yourself more attractive and she'll want sex with you more." It's kind of like saying "make yourself ficher and you'll have more money." Great."

    Anon,
    You've missed a couple of major points but only by a little. Those little bits make a big difference in aggregate. Those little bits are have a not insignificant dark side to them as well.

    I would restate what you said as, "be the best you that you can be and someone will want to have sex with you."

    It is important to understand that you can only work with what you've got. You can't turn a 2 bedroom chalet into a mansion or vice-versa. Be a great version of YOU. No matter how much I work out, I'm going to come out running-wild-wrestler big not sparkly-vampire ripped. Better learn to work the angles I've got.

    Also, I can't fix my wife. She may be too angry, too desensitized, too whatever to want sex with me. At some point, I have to be willing to let her go and find a different wife. If she doesn't want "best-me" someone else will and "best-me" is in a lot better place to find a woman than "couch-potato-blue-pill-beta-me".

    Ultimately, I want my wife to come around but I don't need her to.

  18. Ian Ironwood says:

    ou've got to understand the nuances of this.

    Men and women don't arouse the same way. Men tend to be proactive (spontaneous desire) and women tend to be reactive (responsive desire). While this varies by degrees and in individuals, usually in a sex-poor marriage the male has tried to initiate (proactive) from the weakened position of a lower sex rank than his wife. He could look exactly the same, but if she's lost respect for him, felt insecure about him, or had some other reason to subjectively decrease his comparative sex rank, she's going to turn him down and ply him with shit tests until he's fawning all over her and she's just barely doling it out.

    What Athol is suggesting is that he raise his sex rank in relation to his wife, until he's in a position of strength. There are a lot of ways to do this, from making more money to becoming personally more charismatic to figuring out why she lost respect for him and fixing that. Game is pretty much all about how to buff your relative Sex Rank.

    Once you have a higher relative sex rank than your wife, and you have the dominant hand in the relationship i.e. her natural attraction cues are making her panties wet, then you will still have to initiate 90% of the time, but your success rate per attempt to initiate goes way up. Trust me.

  19. Ian Ironwood says:

    Actually, living in a sex-poor or sexless marriage is a LOT more depressing. The lever is an analogy, a model, a representation. Don't mistake the map for the mountain.

  20. thediverdown says:

    Men: if you want a Captain/First Officer dynamic like the one that Athol describes so well in this blog, and you're interested in trying out the sex tips he doles out as well, then you're looking for a submissive woman. Happily, as Athol points out, many (if not most) women are (at least sexually) submissive to a degree.

    The more submissive a woman, and the more conscious she is of it, the happier she will be to participate in the C/FO model . . . and the less likely she will be to initiate sex. As a submissive myself, I can say that initiating feels unnatural to me. It doesn't turn me on to initiate. To be honest, I usually don't even think of it (I know it sounds weird, but I mean that). I initiate on occasion for the same reason that women give their man a BJ on the rag: it doesn't do all that much for me, but I'm willing to do it every once in a while because he likes it so much. It is by far not the best sex we have.

    That's just how the cookie crumbles with female submissive sexuality, I guess. In general, if he initiates, I respond. But even a submissive will deny and put the breaks on when a man initiates if he comes at her from a submissive, supplicating, "oh please oh please oh please sleep with me" position.

    Do you have any idea how unattractive that is? No one wants to sleep with someone else out of pity. No one. And even if she didn't pity him before, that attitude sure makes it feel like a pity fuck.

  21. Anonymous says:

    "…many (if not most) women are (at least sexually) submissive to a degree…"

    Why not put a few more caveats around it? Hell, you almost made a definitive statement in there. Actually, no you didn't, did you?

    "… As a submissive myself…" you are about as much use as a blind man attempting to explain colour, to most people.

    Jeez, at what point is this intended to become useful?!

  22. Anonymous says:

    Alpha men always have an inflated personal view of their SR. Fake it till you make it. A man's SR is as good as he believes and acts like.

  23. KatF says:

    I think long-term rejection is equally bad, but a single incidence of sexual rejection to a woman is pretty painful. It's hard to articulate specifically why, probably because we know that sexual attraction is so important to a man in a LTR/marriage.

    Don't deny your wife sex, it will have the opposite of the intended effect (making her want you more). Athol definitely got this when talking about the Lingerie Vault – if you don't positively reinforce it, she won't do it. I have a couple stories of being rejected while wearing lingerie – you can bet he never saw that again.

  24. Anonymous says:

    Anon, thediverdown may need some time. She is me, a year ago. now, though, not only do I understand the C/FO dynamic and where dominance/submission intersect (in the bedroom!), but now i'm working on the confidence to initiatr without subverting his authority or sexual dominance. And without giving up my FO power (sorry, this *really* has to get done or the mortgage doesn't get paid; just need 5 minutes, then i'm all yours) or my ability to express my own sexual needs and desires (this is what i'd like you to do to/with me; here, let me show you).

    Give her time…she'll get there with some encouragement!

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