Why Jennifer Matters So Much To MMSL

Multiple comments to respond to…
Ryan:  I know some of you guys will disagree with me, but I’m not liking this whole Jennifer adding in at the end of each post.
Part of this entire plan is doing things without your significant other knowing your motivation behind it. In other words, if your wife or girl friend knew the truth behind why you changed your behavior, then they’d probably laugh and not take you seriously. I know mine would.
Jennifer adding her own feedback is like reading a blog about committing the perfect crime, only to see a police officer at the end stating “yea it sure works against us”.
I saw the polls and a lot of visitors seem pro-Jennifer. I don’t get it. I don’t get it because if I’m taking advice from Athol, then I’d expect he’d be practicing what he preaches by using his advice against his own wife. However if his wife is in on what he is doing, then what the heck is going on here? If she knows his motivation behind his actions, then how the hell does it pan out???
…and
Ryan:  Be honest men, if you had to choose, which would you want?
1.) To have sex with your wife when she needs you?
2.) To have sex with your wife because she feels obligated to?
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but you make Jennifer sound like such a push over sometimes that the reason why your having sex 25 times a month is because of #2…
Athol:  The short answer is that Jennifer comments because while most readers assume our relationship is like this…
Our actual relationship is in many ways like this…
Let me explain… (and I am so sorry for making anyone watch that Batman and Robin clip It was a truly awful movie.)
If MMSL has a default goal that you’re encouraged to reach, it’s a highly sexual Captain and First Officer styled relationship. I’m sure other couples have different goals and adapt MMSL to those ends, and that’s perfectly fine too, it’s their life and relationship. So because a highly sexual Captain and First Officer styled relationship is the default goal, Jennifer and I have to model that relationship, or MMSL doesn’t look like it works.
Or more simply put, if Jennifer never appeared at all, the shouting of “So where’s your First Officer? Where’s Jennifer?” would be louder than a Space Shuttle launch.
In addition to that, many people have been greatly concerned that your point (2) is the case, and that Jennifer is trapped in an abusive relationship with me. There’s been a tiny handful of readers deeply concerned that I am basically raping her repeatedly and have in the past basically demanded Jennifer post on the blog that she is okay or the police will be called on me. I am completely serious about this.
Jennifer actually posting on the blog once in a while quite happily, sexually satisfied and in general agreement with me is my first, best, and frankly only defense against such Good Samaritans trying to destroy our marriage. So Jennifer and I present a united front, and model a happy, sexual satisfied Captain and First Officer relationship. This isn’t difficult for us to do, because it’s how we actually are.
Because Jennifer and I are “at the goal” of MMSL, it’s perfectly fine that Jennifer is aware of MMSL. Those that are making making the journey toward the goal, may or may not have their wives aware of MMSL. The less interested your wife is in you, the less likely you’ll be telling her what is going on with reading MMSL. In some cases the wife tells the husband about MMSL, so its impossible to hide it then. In some cases the results are so dramatic that the wife believes the husband is cheating on her, so the reveal has to happen.
In general women quite like MMSL, and my female readers love Jennifer like you wouldn’t believe. Those people on the poll that said they would actually be more interested in meeting Jennifer than me – they are all female. Despite being clearly aimed at men, some 60% of regular MMSL readers are female according to the Alexa tracking of Amazon.com cookies… which surprised even me. Plus 90% of book purchases are made by women, so I’d be just stupid not to appeal to women.
All that being said, Jennifer and I aren’t a fictional couple. This is not the Cosby Show. We are not the Huxtables. While we do present a united front, that is just teamwork and not faked perfection. We’ve made mistakes with each other and we’ve had to learn things about each other over the last seventeen years. We are incredibly open about about our life together and do reveal at least some of the bad along with the good. Unfortunately our experience of revealing the difficulties of life together have shown that it gets hyper focused on a tiny minority of people and we get ruthlessly attacked for not being perfect.
As there’s no perfect solution that will appease everyone, I’ve decided to please myself, and I love Jennifer’s input and presence here.
But the absolute number one reason Jennifer is directly involved in MMSL though, is because I am married to her, when I talk about my sex life, I am by default talking about her sex life. We are on our real names here. People in our real life read the blog and book. Without her explicit permission to publish MMSL, I would be riding roughshod over her right to privacy and be doing a very stupid thing indeed.
Anyway… here’s Jennifer.
Jennifer: This is something we talked about before Athol started writing the blog. I’m a private person and there is an element of discomfort at times seeing your sex life on the Internet. But good things are coming from MMSL so I’m okay with it. It’s gotten easier as time goes on too.
We’ve also talked about how much power I really have with this whole thing. All it would take would be me saying the sex is terrible or I’m unhappy in the marriage, and that would be the end of everything. 
I also find the phrase “use his advice against his own wife” to be very interesting.  I definitely don’t see it as him using his evil powers againts me lol, I see it as him helping me to understand how relationships work, how men think, and how we each have an effect on the other’s behavior.
I must admit I had no idea I would get such a positive reaction from people though. Athol works so hard at MMSL, and some people want to meet me more than they want to meet him??? It doesn’t seem fair!

Comments

  1. OffTheCuff says:

    However if his wife is in on what he is doing, then what the heck is going on here? If she knows his motivation behind his actions, then how the hell does it pan out???

    If you know that a woman wears makeup, does that destroy the illusion for you, and you suddenly are less attracted to her? For me it's a "hell no", I love it when my wife wears that natural-look makeup that doesn't even look like makeup. It gives me repeated boners. Boners are good for marriage, you see.

    In a truly dysfunctional relationship, then a man might need to hide his self-improvement – there is a high chance that his spouse will use it as a weapon against him. Not that it should stop him, as then becomes part of the exit strategy.

    In a decent *functional* relationship, your wife will be thrilled at the changes you make. You must be steeped in a dysfunctional one if you think they are adversarial.

    I applied the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" principles (Bob Glover) to myself long before coming here to MMSL, of which there is a good overlap in theory. Bob warns that doing so will either improve your current relationship to a degree that you can't imagine, or, send it to a long-overdue grave, and then you're far better off to start a new one. I've found the former to be true, since I was confident we had a functional marriage.

    Mrs. C will post from time to time (as Stargate Girl) to confirm this. I'm glad she does.

  2. Anonymous says:

    I think it can work out perfectly even if you do know that your husband is playing "MMSL" game on you. I found the site first so he never had a chance. I used some girl game on him and at first he was lukewarm about the site but after having several posts hit the nail on the head he came around quick.

    I can tell when he is "MMSL" gaming me and it makes me laugh but it is still VERY effective. It makes me realize that he is putting his all into OUR relationship and makes me work just as hard. I think like the above stated, if your relationship is functional there is really no need to hide what you are doing.

  3. Anonymous says:

    Has there ever been a time when you blogged without Jennifer knowing about your blog i.e in the beginning.
    As far back as I can remember she has always edited/proof read your blog

  4. Athol Kay says:

    We talked about it before I started writing the blog.

    There would be no way to hide it from her anyway.

  5. "I also find the phrase "use his advice against his own wife" to be very interesting."

    I also found this an interesting and misguided frame. I don't use any social techniques against someone, I use it with them to produce a better result for both of us. It's pretty clear that mmsl is about making your wife want to have sex with you more, not finding creative ways to trick or force her into it.

    Game is not adversarial, or at least it shouldn't be. Some bitter cynical guys use PUA to engage in "hate-fucks," but I personally don't support pursuing women as a sort of therapy for one's existential problems.

  6. I really enjoy and appreciate Jennifer's input. I am somewhat amazed by the statistics regarding women readers, although I found the blog first and introduced my husband to it, and purchased two copies of the book, a Kindle copy for me and a paper copy for him, and frequently refer to things Athol says….

  7. Ryan, Jennifer knowing about what Athol is doing is like a general knowing warfare tactics. That doesn't give the general automatic immunity against the bullets.

    The difference is this. It's more like being hit by Cupid's arrow and you actually WANT to be hit by it. Obviously, Jennifer is going to want to be more cooperative and let the arrow get her. For a certain type of woman, letting her in on it at some point in the MAP (probably later on) can probably actually be helpful, so that she doesn't fight it and encourage it.

    I mean you guys know that women emphasise parts of their body to look more sexually attractive. You know that x model is probably airbrushed or whatever. You know that heels change your evaluation slightly. That doesn't give you much choice over if you're sexually attracted.

  8. Women use many game techniques which men are aware of, like a little bit of make-up, a push-up bra, or heels. Knowing that women are "tricking" the my brain doesn't reduce the appeal — ladies, please continue.

    Second, Jennifer's presence is fantastic. She is critical to helping take this information mainstream, beyond the shady world of pick-up.

  9. Stargate Girl says:

    "his advice against his own wife"

    That is a rather scary comment. it seems to imply a Husband vs. Wife dynamic. And if that's what you are living, you probably have way more serious problems than how often you have sex.

    Marriage should be teamwork. You are working together to build your life, raise your kids, face tribulations together.

    Seriously suggest some major counseling if you view your wife as an adversary. I would barely be up for sex if my husband viewed me as an opponent.

    I like seeing Jennifer's thoughts. Doesn't bother me that they're at the end. Perhaps she doesn't wish to write a big ass blurb…. Perhaps she'll feel like writing Married Woman Sex Life, but until then, whatever she feels like sharing, works for me.

    Anywhoo… time to get kids to bed and let my hubby game me into a blissful pile of mush.

  10. I enjoy her input. It always seems to add, rather than subtract.

    As for people thinking your wife is some sort of kept sexual slave, that's just… precious.

  11. Athol Kay says:

    Thank you all.

    It's actually been a longish weekend of playing whack-a-troll with the banhammer. It's so nice to see positive and productive comments finally.

  12. Mama Fish says:

    Athol, you and Jennifer are amazingly generous and I hope you realize that for everyone who bothers to communicate their appreciation, there are many others nodding in agreement. I really enjoy hearing from both of you (nothing like a great team!) – some of Jennifer's comments at the end crack me up.

    I also wondered at the "husband vs wife" tone of that comment, how very sad. Thanks for addressing it.

    Keep up the great work!

  13. JCclimber says:

    His choice of words are VERY revealing of his attitude toward women and marriage.

  14. Re Ryan's comments – For many people it is really partner v partner. It's sad but true.

    Is it really true teamwork when one partner implements MAP and then issues an ultimatum to the other or when someone spys on their partner to check out alledged cheating?

    For 20 years of my life I actually thought partner v partner was the marriage "model" and wanted none of it. For many years I lived this model and wanted out of it.

    Perhaps it is not Ryan's atttitude, but his reality that is the issue.

    Ryan – I'm not sure what comfort I can provide you. I always tried to believe there is another way and have tried to develop into the person that can choose the right partner and maintain a fairytale nice marriage. I make friends of people who have successful marriages and try to learn from them…

    Good luck mate! C :-)

  15. Part of the difficulty for me (as a female reader) is that Jennifer always seems to be sitting there nodding her head at what Athol says. Is there *never* a time when a technique he tries ends up being a huge fail? Athol's written so many times that only 30% (or whatever it is) of what they try in the bedroom works…so OK, where are those 30% of posts about that stuff? Without that, of course it looks like Athol and his sex slave!

    For those of us who are…less experienced with sex, it'd be nice to see some posts about positions and techniques and how they do and don't work. Cause it's pretty disappointing when the game is good, but the sex is…that same old thing. Again. For the 34953453th time.

  16. Boombacca says:

    To Ryan,share these blogs with your wife, it can make for great communication. Great communications make for great sex.

    To Wife, read cosmopolitan, go to the book store,and get books on positions and techniques and then share with your partner.

    Boombacca

  17. alphapersona says:

    If I may re this:

    "For those of us who are…less experienced with sex, it'd be nice to see some posts about positions and techniques and how they do and don't work. Cause it's pretty disappointing when the game is good, but the sex is…that same old thing. Again. For the 34953453th time."

    Sometimes the same old 2 positions take on an entirely different light if we change the venue. Doggy style, for example, is fun. Being… loved over the kitchen counter is entirely different.

    That being said,

    @athol – Has anyone ever taken any serious action, other than sending Jennifer comforting e-mails, about your supposed consistent rape? Like, it's one thing for people to speculate or damn you in the comments, it is entirely different for the police or a 'battered woman van' to show up at your house unexpected.

  18. A little late to this post, which is too bad would have liked to have gotten my comment in earlier…

    Personally, I like Jennifer's comments, in fact I would be in favour of Jennifer writing posts now and again because as a male, I really value the female perspective in all of this.

    I don't want to objectify Athol and Jennifer cause they are living people, but like Athol said they are an example of a successful MMSL couple so I like getting the perspective of the female side of that relationship.

    I think if the blog lacked that viewpoint/perspective, guys like Ryan would likely be commenting on how it all sounds good but how do we know for sure it works in Athol's life.

  19. Wife…

    I don't think Athol has ever claimed that all of his posts have worked either though I think you are assuming that since he published them, they worked. Perhaps a better recommendation if I am understanding you, is that Jennifer comment when they have not worked?

    Also, if you are less experienced at sex with your husband or partner, I envy you. I don't mean this in a malicious way, but you have the luxery of exploring all kinds of different things with your partner that most people who have been together for a long time miss being able to do and are constantly seeking it out.

    Just my suggestion, take it for what it is worth, I would create a "sexual bucket list" with your partner. Things you both are interested in trying and start checking them off your list. (figuratively or literally) Just make sure you talk about it after so you can see how it worked for the both of you.

    In terms of resources, the internet is a dirty place so start googling and pick your poison. Maybe have your partner join you in the search.

    Good luck.

  20. Frankly, I'm surprised I haven't seen more of this sooner. I've had the same question. The MMSL approach has so much deception and manipulation embedded within it that it is a bit strange that Jennifer is in on it. From a research perspective, if a subject is aware of the game, any change that results is NOT necessarily from the game itself, but at least partially from the fact that she/she knows that there's a game going on and her/she is being watched/evaluated.

    As for being "at the goal," that's an interesting concept, especially since relationships grow and change in a manner that is not linear. Reaching "the goal" means you have no idea about the even deeper levels of intimacy that are waiting for you when you move beyond the "game".

    That said, of course it's your blog and you can do whatever you want with it. If you want your wife to pop in regularly and nod her head to how wonderful you are, that's entirely your perogative.

  21. ExtremeBalance says:

    "Game is not adversarial, or at least it shouldn't be. Some bitter cynical guys use PUA to engage in "hate-fucks," but I personally don't support pursuing women as a sort of therapy for one's existential problems."

    +1 and this is why the Hut and MMSL are my main resources on relationship dynamics.

  22. Kat,

    You said, "The MMSL approach has so much deception and manipulation embedded within it that it is a bit strange that Jennifer is in on it. "

    How do you figure it's deception and manipulation?
    MMSL sez:
    1) You can't change your wife. Change you and see if she reacts differently to a different you.
    2) Your wife needs X. Be X. It's good for both of you.
    3) If your wife won't meet your needs find a new wife. By following MMSL, you'll be in a better place to find a new wife.

    You WANT your wife to change, but you CAN'T change her. That's up to her. I WANTED my wife to quit yelling so I quit yelling at her. That's not manipulation and deception. It's good communication. Even if I tell her "I don't like yelling. I'm not going to yell at you anymore. I'm not going to accept you yelling at me either." I never said, "I want you to quit yelling." There was still no manipulation or deception.

    Substitute "blow job" for "quit yelling" and you get MMSL.

    I won't even start on moral relativity…

  23. Jennifer adding her own feedback is like reading a blog about committing the perfect crime, only to see a police officer at the end stating "yea it sure works against us".

    This is dead @#$%ing wrong. The police are supposed to be arresting the suspects for prosecution, and therefore in opposition to the police. Any good First Officer is in alignment with the ultimate goals of the Captain, and supports those ultimate goals by providing an alternate viewpoint.

  24. My wife knows that I read MMSL and as a result she reads it also. I have often wondered if it would be better if she didn't know about it. I think this would have certain advantages. For example, when you pull the 10 second kiss on her and she just read about it on MMSL its probably not as effective somehow. It seems like there would be some suspicion that its just a "game".

    However, I don't think of it as a game, I think of it as self improvement. If its not genuine, then it would simply be "game". But, for me, I really mean it and feel it and my wife knows what I'm up to so it really isn't a game.

    And either way, whether your wife knows about it or not, the successful results are undeniable.

    One of the benefits of having my wife read MMSL is that we have started communicating about our sexual and emotional relationship in ways we never have before and this is a big factor in the huge improvements we have seen in our marraige as a result.

  25. Christopher says:

    I find it both strange and disturbing that "Ryan" uses the term "against" when applied to his partner.

    And to answer his question, it is quite alright if both partners know MMSL forwards and backwards. This is because MMSL is about communicating at a biological/hormonal level. It doesn't matter whatsoever if milady knows /intellectually/ about the game, she will still be affected by it hormonally, which is the point.

    If anything, her knowledge of it helps with trust.

  26. ExtremeBalance says:

    "The MMSL approach has so much deception and manipulation embedded within it…"

    To me, 'prowling' on one's spouse without their knowledge is deceptive and manipulative.

  27. @ExtremeBalance – Maybe, but I haven't claimed it's the foolproof way to improve your marriage, get your spouse into bed, and make all your relationship problems go away. Just because you don't approve of cheating doesn't mean that MMSL is not deceptive and manipulative.

  28. @Ponyboy

    "Perhaps a better recommendation if I am understanding you, is that Jennifer comment when they have not worked?"

    Exactly. Thanks for wording my point better.

  29. Kat…

    You are certainly welcome to your opinion. And trust me, I am shelving all judgements when I respond to you. I don't think your lifestyle choices in anyway affect your opinion here so it's just not relevant to respond to them, as I am sure some commenters will.

    I think you miss the point. What you interpret as deceptive and manipulative is probably getting confused with the use of "game" by so called "pick up artists". I'm not even going to delve into it, because that would assume I know what I am talking about when it comes to "game" and I don't.

    MMSL to me is not about that. In fact it really needs to be defined as something else other than "game" cause you're right it does make it sound awfully manipulative.

    To me it is about self improvement for the betterment of the relationship. If my wife needs something from me that I am not providing, whether it be a conscious or unconscious need, I want to be able to provide that. It also changes your refrence from "what the other person is doing to contribute to a problem" to, "what am I doing, or not doing that is contributing to this problem."

    In that context, MMSL has opened my eyes in many ways. It has totally changed my frame of refrence when dealing with relationship issues with my wife and I think in many ways has helped other areas other than the bedroom.

    Sex is part of it, but not all of it. I can only speak for myself, but I don't think the end goal here is to bed your wife 'X' amount of times a month. The end goal is to have a happy and healty relationship where everyone's needs are met.

    Bedding your wife typically ends up being a consequence of that cause don't forget, you are already with the person, not picking them up at some bar. That is the big difference to what you interpret as "game" and what is going on here. That use of "game", the goal is to bed women, here its to be a better partner.

  30. ExtremeBalance says:

    @Kat – Strictly speaking, your last sentence is a valid logical point. So, I will qualify by saying that in my opinion running the MAP to generate more attraction is less deceptive and manipulative than cheating, assuming one's partner has the expectation of monogamy (without that expectation it's not really cheating).

    I find your blog somewhat of a train-wreck experience though – it's hard not to look! Partly due to my own fear of being cheated on and partly because it seems such a manifestation of the rationalization hamster to me.

  31. @PonyBoy – Thank you. I certainly understand your point of view, and I can see those things in MMSL, too. However, I think you're "taking what you can use and leaving the rest." In spite of that, I believe that anything that can help you open the lines of communication with your spouse is a good thing, at least to some degree.

    @ExtremeBalance – I never claimed that cheating was more or less deceptive or manipulative than MAP. If my blog offends you, don't read it. By the way, you seem to have acknowledged that there is an element of deception and manipulation in the MMSL approach. I appreciate your honesty. It's the obvious elephant in the living room here that seems to brushed aside because "the ends justify the means."

  32. Kat…

    I think that's pretty standard to "take what you can use and leave the rest."

    I'm sure avid readers of your blog will take suggestions, experiences etc… and use what they would find helpful to them and leave the rest.

    I'm curious, what parts do you think I am leaving out?

    Just curious, maybe it will help me get laid more. Kidding…

  33. ExtremeBalance says:

    @Kat – My mistake, I personally don't see the MAP as deceptive or manipulative. You may have addressed this previously (if so, do you remember which post it was commented to?) but what about the MAP do you find deceptive/manipulative?

    BTW, in your first reply to me you said "Maybe, but I haven't claimed it's the foolproof way to improve your marriage, get your spouse into bed, and make all your relationship problems go away." As you pointed out to me, such a claim would have nothing to do with whether or not cheating (or the MAP) is deceptive or manipulative. However, I admit that I was the one to bring your personal preferences into the comments and that was off-topic.

  34. Dr Laura once chided a female caller for punishing her husband by denying sex.

    She asked the caller if she liked having orgasms. "Yes." So why are you depriving yourself of something you really enjoy, a lot, in order to punish your husband and make him want to work even less on the relationship?

    Running game on your wife benefits her just as much as yourself. It's not rocket science.

  35. Athol,

    Steve's comment at 12:30 is both a nice summary and high praise of what you've discovered and articulated.

    To everyone else,

    Can anyone explain to me just what you think you find so deceptive? I ask, because I am just not seeing it.

  36. First of all, I don't see any deception in the MAP. It is a plan to make me a better man, a better husband. There is no deception involved. It is what women want their men to be. I think Jennifer's comments prove it. I agree with everything Athol said about the reasons Jennifer adds to the blog. My wife knows what I am doing and loves it.

    For me, I want Jennifer's input so I can hear a women's point of view. Sorry, Jennifer, it may be unfair, but I would really like to meet you! I would like to meet Athol too, but I would love to get your point of view about all of this. How does the Captain/First Officer work for you? How has Athol's approach made you want him so much sexually? Maybe you should start a blog.

  37. Athol Kay says:

    Many excellent comments, will be addressing them in a post later tonight.

  38. cecil henry says:

    I have to agree with the comments of Ryan.

    Great Blog though!

    This blog is purported about how men can improve their relationships by understanding sexuality and psychology– from a man's perspective.

    Therefore its not that Jennifer is disliked or not wanted, its simply that the persepective of a woman is not what I come here for.

    Now, whether this is effective on women is another question, but I need to understand that from a male perspective.

    You know this is a very common attitude.

    Indeed a lot of popular shows show this attitude with men:

    ie Norm on Cheers
    Red Green on the Red Green Show
    etc….

    There's a reason this pattern recurs.

  39. cecil henry says:

    I should add that (and I believe many of the other comments reflect this concern) the female presence will affect the truthfulness and openness of what can be discussed.

    It just will. It will add something new (possibly good) but it will take away something important too. See if you don't find yourself editing what you write to consider this presence. That's why Jennifer's input is viewed with reservation.

    It will probably be hard to detect this effect; self-deception will make you think you're not censoring yourself.

    The female interest in the blog is likely because of the candid and open male perspective you give. This is what women want to hear and don't get from other women.

    To speak truthfully you have to prepared to offend people. And as soon as consider the impact of your message on whose listening… you will just be …. lying.

    This is why men have a place to be exclusively with other males– and women must trust and respect men enough to accept this.

    Thanks for the blog.

  40. Cecil, I can't disagree with you more, but that's my personal opinion. The only "self censoring" I'll do is keeping my words civil and polite; but I'd do that anyway regardless of the presence of other women.

    While men do like to go out and shoot the breeze with their friends, this isn't that place. This is a place where men and women can come together and learn about what works and what does not in keeping their relationships on a steady course. It's a place where you can learn about improving yourself.

    Quite frankly, that means a place where you can, well, speak frankly – both men and women.

  41. Anonymous says:

    Kat said…
    "Frankly, I'm surprised I haven't seen more of this sooner. I've had the same question. The MMSL approach has so much deception and manipulation embedded within it that it is a bit strange that Jennifer is in on it. From a research perspective, if a subject is aware of the game, any change that results is NOT necessarily from the game itself, but at least partially from the fact that she/she knows that there's a game going on and her/she is being watched/evaluated."

    Kat, everyone puts forward their best when trying to attract others. Is this not what you do as well? MMSL is just a way to display a man's best features. How is it that you equate a happier marriage to deception?

  42. Anonymous says:

    I was very upset when Athol made Jennifer sound like a pushover….because in my family we have the attitude "Don't Shit In Your Own Nest" (don't ever put down a family member in public)

    But then I thought about it for a bit and I realized….He's not insulting Jennifer…This is what he loves about Jennifer!

    My guy goes hiking on "Nature trips" and I have this whole fake british accent naturalist impression of him that to the outsider would seem insulting….But it's just because I find the whole thing so cute and amusing!!!

    So when Jennifer/Athol posts I imagine a man sitting at a keyboard while his wife is grinning devilishly over his shoulder. So then I get it–captain/first officer.

    My only objection to everything is that society is getting SO Sexualized that it's kinda like "Umm…Is this really good at developing the character of men?" That is starting to get to me on not this blog, but just everything in general.

    But since your readership is mainly female…then that makes sense even more. Men really aren't that concerned, the women are just trying to make their man happy and improve the connection.

    And that is always a good thing :)

  43. I’m glad a few other posters agree with my perspective. I’d like to clarify a few things so people don’t misunderstand me.

    1.) Regarding Jennifer – a few others did a better job posting what I was originally thinking. First, Jennifer gives me the impression of the good wife sitting at Athols side who is constantly nodding her head at whatever he says. I just think Jennifer is way too easy going and she’d probably do this with anyone she was with. This is my perception, whether it’s true or not I don’t know. Second, Jennifer is so easy going to the point it disappoints me a little. She is willing to stop cooking sausage and peppers because Athol has personal issues about it. If Athol says to her “honey, I’m getting bored of you”, she simply replies “ok dear, what should I do now?” It’s a little disappointing because it gives me the impression Athol didn’t have to climb a giant mountain to get where he’s at now. Unlike some of us, he just had to climb a mole hill.

    2.) Regarding your significant other not knowing about MMSL? Let’s think about his here. The title of the concept is “Married Man Sex Life”. This means the goal or outcome is to obtain a better sex life from you partner. This is why most of you come here. I agree improving yourself is the core of the process; however it is not what you all intended to do in the first place when you first came to this site. I’m sorry but I disagree with you all. A woman is going to be turned on by her man if he “appears” to be making changes because this is who he wants to be as a person and it becomes mysterious. Women love mystery, especially when it comes to their own men. If they know that MMSL is the reason for their changes, then it appears they are doing it for an external reason (more sex) – not internal (to self-improve). Making changes so you can improve your sex life with your wife is an external reason. Making changes because you want to increase your value as a man, and be proud of who you are (regardless of sex) is an internal reason.

    3.) Regarding Kats point of manipulation – there are times this is part of the material. Not long ago it was suggested by Athol that a women “appear” to spent more time outside of the house in order to cause a reaction from her husband who was ignoring her. This post even became a spinoff when I commented about the approach working for me. Now if this isn’t manipulation, then what is? I’m not saying that MMSL is all manipulation, but it would be incorrect to say it doesn’t involve any. Tips like these are “against another. I can find other samples if you like, but to say there is no manipulation is simply not true.

    Luckily Jennifer's comments are in red and at the bottom, so I can easily ignore the 1 or 2 sentences that equate to head nodding and validation. :-)

  44. Ryan – I don't believe I can give you an answer that will please you. (1) is already answered several times over through the blog and book.

    (2) 55-60% of MMSL readers are women. Many of them tell their husbands about MMSL.

    (3) Kat writes a "how to cheat on your spouse" blog and writes about her cheating on her husband. She's just here to troll for more readers.

    There's a major part of MMSL devoted to behavior management, several chapters in the book are devoted to this. "Manipulation!" is not a clever point to be made against MMSL, it's simply trying to spin what we do in a negative light.

  45. Athol, that's interesting about #2, I did not know that. If approx. 60% of your readers are women, then you maybe right to include Jennifer. However I like the idea of keeping it a "hee-man woman haters club". :)

    As for Kat, I checked out her blog and I'm glad I'm not married to someone like her. Talk about manipulation and lying…

  46. Athol Kay says:

    Ryan – MMSL is a blog about attracting women, that actually attracts women…

    I kinda like the ladies. :-)

  47. People who think things should just work are childish and up for disappointment. Not suited for a long term relationship, methinks. Being aware of why things work does not necessarily involve manipulation, it means being aware of each other’s needs and striving to fulfill them. Everything may seem mechanical at first, but afterwards it becomes internalized. Do you drive a car? If so, how much thought do you put into changing gear? And how much thought did you put into it when you were learning it?

  48. People who think you shouldn’t put conscious effort in your relationship to make it work are akin to people who think that getting rich is about winning the lottery or being lucky enough, not about performing hard work.

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