If You Cannot Act Like My Wife, You Cannot Be My Wife

Some comments on Overcoming Approach Anxiety
Reader:  And when she doesn’t flinch, looks you straight in the eye and in a low, slow confident voice tells you:   “Go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut.”
You’ll know SHE’s for real too!
The Outsider left an excellent comment in response…
The Outsider:  I know what you are describing, believe me, I’ve been there. You’ve laid a foundation of beta and that’s no easy thing to undo. Especially not in an instant in the bedroom. The point is that every interaction you have with her is an opportunity to start changing it. If she reacts badly to a sexual demand your response is important. You can take it back and fall into the same pattern you’ve established. Or you can let it stand and start building a new pattern.
Listen, it’s probably not going to work the first time. She’s not used to taking you seriously. But hold your frame. You *are* are guy who acts this way. If you neglected brushing your teeth for years, you wouldn’t expect to get everything ship-shape in one day. And the first time you floss it might get worse – your gums will bleed and it will hurt. But if you keep brushing every day pretty soon it will get better.
It’s going to take time for her to adjust, too. But she will, and she’ll be happier. Obviously I don’t know your wife, but it’s a safe bet that she doesn’t really want the role she’s got now. She doesn’t want the responsibility, and she almost certainly harbors a certain amount of contempt for you because you’ve allowed her to take it. You’re not doing your job!
That sex with a sense of obligation is the worst, isn’t it. It makes you feel about this big. Have you considered turning it down? This may be delicate, you don’t want to seem petulant. But it could send a strong signal that this isn’t about her doing you a favor. “Listen, I can tell you’re not into this. That’s cool. Let’s do it tomorrow instead.” This does two things. First, it gives you some control over the situation and shows you’re not just about begging her to ration it out. Second, it builds some anticipation for the next night, which is always good.
(I wonder what Athol’s take is on that idea.)
….and the reply comment…
Reader:  Outsider said…
“Listen, I can tell you’re not into this. That’s cool. Let’s do it tomorrow instead.”
And she says…
“The answer will be the same tomorrow, fuckwit, and the day after that…”
Athol:  I agree with The Outsider’s comment. It takes time, it’s a process, but you can get there.
Barring medical issues, medications and past sexual trauma, everything I talk about in terms of getting your sex life back on track boils down to a few simple concepts.
(1)  If she doesn’t want to have sex with you, it’s because she isn’t attracted to you. Therefore the solution is to become attractive to her in the hope that sex will resume again.   (If it’s a medical issue, medication or past trauma, you have to deal with that as well, or you won’t have much success.)
(2)  If you have become fairly well maxed out in your attractiveness to women in general, and your wife is still not sexually responding to you, there’s nothing else you can do to make her want to have sex with you. . 
(3)  If you wife does resume being sexually interested in you, that’s great. If your wife does not become sexually interested in you, you are in a much better place to find a woman that is interested in you sexually. So either way, you’re still better off for having committed to the process of self-improvement and becoming more attractive to women.
So when she tells you to “go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut,” you’re probably somewhere at the beginning of getting yourself together. In time she may change her mind and become more attracted to you. The correct response is “A simple ‘no’ will suffice,” and to head off to the gym.
When she says “The answer will be the same tomorrow, fuckwit, and the day after that…” the correct response is, “You’re assuming I’m going to keep asking you.”
As unromantic as it sounds, marriage is an economic transaction. The woman sells “wife” and the man sells “husband”. The woman buys “husband” and the man buys “wife”. Part of the job description of “wife” is having sex with her husband. Part of the job description of “husband” is being someone a wife would want to have sex with.
If you keep up your self-improvement, you will arrive at a Zen-like moment where you are acutely aware that she’s getting everything she wants from you, and you’re getting nothing you want from her. Plus you’ll know you’re actually confident enough to leave her and find someone better than her with minimal effort. So it’s an exploitative relationship, you’re on the unhappy end of the exploiting and you can end the relationship at will.

Marriage is by definition a sexual relationship. Never apologize for wanting a sexual relationship with your wife.

MMSL isn’t a magic love potion. I can’t promise she will love you again, or your marriage will survive. I can promise you’ll become more attractive and get your balls back though. At least enough to say when you’re hotter than she is…
“If you cannot act like my wife, you cannot be my wife.”

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Comments

  1. Suz says:

    "As unromantic as it sounds, marriage is an economic transaction. The woman sells "wife" and the man sells "husband". The woman buys "husband" and the man buys "wife". Part of the job description of "wife" is having sex with her husband. Part of the job description of "husband" is being someone a wife would want to have sex with."

    Thank you. And just about every decision is and economic one, an assessment of risk vs. gain. We should remember this every time we consider risking rejection.

  2. horseman says:

    Athol I do believe you have invented a new pill. The red pill is when "you are acutely aware that she's getting everything she wants from you, and you're getting nothing you want from her."

    The new pill is that zen like moment somewhere along the MAP process where you realize your self worth and ARE man enough to both leave IF necessary and get another women if that is what you want.

    In my journey they were two different days about two years apart but the second pill is just as powerful as the first and just as jolting to the system.

    Its a sad statement on many lives that you have to come to "If you cannot act like my wife, you cannot be my wife." But it is a fact many of us take years to get the courage to recognize.

    But equally during those years "we were not acting as her husband."
    And that is equally unfair to her.

  3. Mark says:

    I learned some advice when I was much younger that may apply here. The advice was not actually directed to me, but I overheard it and it literally changed my life. I shared a house with several other single guys and one of them had an impending job interview. He was a total omega. Another guy was giving him advice. This guy was very tough. Years earlier, he had attempted suicide while drunk and shot himself through the chest with a rifle. The bullet went through right through him. As he was bleeding to death he prayed to God to save him, lived, and became a Christian and a professional martial arts instructor.

    Anyway, what he said was something very simple, yet profound: "Your confidence wins you the position".

    I define confidence as a determined expectation that you will reach your goal. And that's what you need. You don't have to wait until you have no more doubts or the stars align somehow. You just have to decide that the decisions you are making are the way that things are going to go. If you are in a very omega state, I recommend creative visualization, like the stuff Richard Bandler and Paul McKenna do. Basically, you imagine how life would look if you were confident and happy and then act that way. Sounds airy-fairy, but it's effective.

    Changing overnight is not expected for anyone and even harder for others to accept from you. What I did with my wife was to sit her down (I set up a time where we would be uninterrupted) and told her that things were going to be different. I explained that I was not happy with our marriage, but that I realised that there were things I could change, so I was going to be different from now on. I told her that she would naturally follow along. Now, my situation is obviously not universal, but I the point is this: expect the outcome that you want.

  4. Brad says:

    Thank you for sharing good articles. It is very interesting

  5. CL says:

    Are you kidding? He needs to tell her to go fuck herself then leave for a few days.

    If I were him I'd call it a lost cause and go get my jollies elsewhere, but if he insists of flagellating himself for this nasty bitch, he's going to have to treat her precisely like the nasty bitch she is behaving like.

    Unfortunately, a slap will probably get him arrested; otherwise I'd say she needs it.

  6. flipper says:

    Here is something interesting in how you respond. Took this from a sales class. Which is preferred?

    *YOU'RE* assuming I'm going to keep asking you.
    You're *ASSUMING* I'm going to keep asking you.
    You're assuming *I'M* going to keep asking you.
    You're assuming I'm going to keep asking *YOU*.

  7. Anonymous says:

    CL – I think the problem there, apart from that it might feel good but otherwise accomplishes nothing, is that it pretty clearly shows her she's getting to him. Athol's recommending he be unaffected by her shenanigans.

  8. CL says:

    "You're assuming I'm going to keep asking you." [my emphasis]

    The problem with this is the unstated assumption that she is in control of the sexuality in the marriage. This is a strategy for failure and for the subversion of the gift in marriage. With this as the underlying assumption, the rest of the advice is worthless.

  9. CL says:

    Anon 8:28 AM: Not at all. It shows that he isn't willing to hang around to be mistreated by a bitch. She will either wonder where he is and get worried, or she'll think "good riddance". In either case he knows where he stands at that point – either he's married to a woman who needs an asshole to get turned on, or he can cut his losses and find someone who isn't a bitch.

    This isn't "shenanigans"; it's complete and utter disrespect. She refuses to give him even the most basic respect that she would give to a stranger. I would be surprised if there is a way back from that. Once a woman loses respect at that level, it's nigh impossible to win it back, and in trying to win it back (by being passive) he is essentially playing into her frame and supplicating himself. It won't work.

  10. Lainey says:

    I do agree that no one should ever be treated that way. I would never dream of calling my husband a name, and he knows I would never tolerate it from him either.

    I'm hoping the poster was kidding when he said, "fuckwit."

    There has to be a certain level of respect given no matter the situation. Talking to a spouse that way is just beyond acceptable.

  11. Anonymous says:

    "…Part of the job description of "wife" is having sex with her husband…"

    Direct me to the part of the wedding service that EXPLICITLY says this.

    Not infers it.

    Not suggests it.

    Not says "it's an unspoken expectation, that everyone knows".

    The EXACT, SPECIFIC words that say that.

  12. Anonymous says:

    You can't have sex with her if she doesn't want to. She DOES have control. All you can do is start a Cold War where YOU don't have sex with her when she wants as well.

  13. Anonymous says:

    Graveyards all over the world are full of dead, confident men…

  14. Anonymous says:

    Someone answered one of The Outsider's comments saying
    "Most people get the same problem when they repeatedly try to get someone to do something they don't want. Family, friends, coworkers – if you keep asking them to do something they don't want, they'll get pissed off and tell you to screw yourself.

    Sometimes, it doesn't matter how you say it, they don't want to know. And if you keep saying it, eventually, they'll tell you. Hard."

    You are saying marriage is an economic transaction. The person who gets to ask you to do things you don't want is your boss. He gets to ask because he pays for the priviledge. Ok, fine, you can argue that in marriage you pay for the priviledge as well.

    Remember though, you boss can only demand a certain amount of crap, and for a certain length of time, before you tell HIM to take a flying fuck at a rolling donut (I LIKE that!) too. If he keeps asking you to do same shit job (as you see it) over and over, you'll leave.

    Study on this…

  15. CL says:

    If he keeps asking you to do same shit job (as you see it) over and over, you'll leave.

    Sooo…sex with your husband is a shit job? Why would you take a job that involves doing things you don't want to do, assuming you don't see the reward/remuneration as worth the effort?

  16. Anonymous says:

    .sex with your husband is a shit job

    If he isn't any good at it it is! lol!

  17. Anonymous says:

    CL,

    quite often people take jobs without any real idea of how they're going to take to what they actually have to do when it comes down to it.

    You might think you know, or think you can hack it, or think you'll get to like it.

    But not everyone does. I've employed a lot of people who when it came to the crunch just couldn't convince themselves the job was worth the wage.

    Guess marriage is the same…

  18. flipper says:

    Falls under love, honor, and obey.

  19. Anonymous says:

    How? None of those say "You, wife, will have sex with me." Love honor and obey doesn't spell fuck in any language.

  20. OffTheCuff says:

    And when she doesn't flinch, looks you straight in the eye and in a low, slow confident voice tells you: "Go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut." You'll know SHE's for real too!

    I think you're being trolled here.

    This is not the response of a man, implying "this is what my wife will do".

    This is the response of a woman who hates your advice, placing herself into the story, and saying what she would do herself. Or thinks she'd do.

  21. Anonymous says:

    OffTheCuff,

    you said:
    "This is not the response of a man, implying "this is what my wife will do"."

    I wouldn't bet my life on this. Hell I wouldn't bet the price of a beer on it. There are plenty of men out there who are pretty damned sure that this is EXACTLY how their wives would react.

    Just because was intended as a troll doesn't mean it isn't actually true :-~

  22. Anonymous says:

    If he wants a bj because he repaired a leaky roof and she blows him, it's a transaction. If she feels he is aware of her needs and address the roof without nagging or prompting and she is turned on by the attention he has paid and she blows him, that's attraction.

  23. Ian Ironwood says:

    @horseman:

    It's the same pill. It comes in a couple of different flavors, however.

  24. Ian Ironwood says:

    They're full of beta pussies, too. Your point?

    Mark has some profundity here. Cowardice and fear are just not very sexy.

  25. Ian Ironwood says:

    That's not all you can do at all. You have to understand: she controls the sex . . . you control the marriage.

  26. Ian Ironwood says:

    A thousand years of English common law say it. Works for me.

    If there's no sex, there's no marriage. Period. It doesn't matter what you say, according to the Rectification of Names, if your wife isn't having sex with you, she's not being your wife. It's kind of a basic requirement.

  27. Ian Ironwood says:

    It's all a transaction, just a multi-leveled transaction that spans a significant period of time. Even with the attraction element, it's still a transaction.

  28. Anonymous says:

    The Marriage Act of 1753 shitcanned marriage under the English common law. And they actually only have to do it once for the marriage to be legally consummated. If they've had enough sex for the purposes of procreation, then legally, they've done enough. Nothing about having to do it for fun or to keep the other partner happy…

  29. Anonymous says:

    If it's all a transaction then service sex should be acceptable. He gets his orgasm and she get the leaky roof fixed. Sex becomes a bartering tool and form of payment.

  30. Lainey says:

    I think if someone stumbles onto this blog at this post then yes, they are going to balk. If you understand the biology of men and women, and how to keep a marriage strong and content for both of them then you can see how sex can be a transaction.

    I don't give my husband sex for doing all the things he does, but it does make me attracted to him when I am feeling cared for. If I don't do my part in our marriage then my husband would feel resentful and stressed, not want to have sex as much with me & not want to care for me as well. It's a vicious circle.

    Biologically men need sex. They also need it to feel loved and wanted. The same goes for a lot of women. Sex is fun. It gives us pleasure, release, and loving feelings. Why wouldn't we want it?

    If a spouse is calling you a "fuckwhit" then I'd say the marriage is over. I do not call my husband names, and my husband doesn't call me names. Why on earth would someone marry or stay married to someone that does? Oh, yeah, the kids and financial issues. Still, one can divorce themselves emotionally long before the marriage is dissolved.

    And about someone's husband being bad at sex. A spouse usually gets better at sex if the other partner is good in bed. Love play, sexy times, sexy talk, and just dialogue about sex and relationship is important. It doesn't happen in a bubble. Plus, they make videos for couples to improve their love lives. In this day and age there are resources. Marriage is hard, but I think it is worth it.

  31. The Outsider says:

    Are you seriously arguing that sex is *not* an expectation of marriage? Forget about all this common law and statute. The issue is whether it meets reasonable expectations. If you'd like to argue that either party thought they wouldn't be having sex, please feel free.

    The vows also don't explicitly say you won't beat her up. Do you think violent abuse is legitimate ground for divorce?

  32. Anonymous says:

    Assault is separately illegal under other laws. Refusing sex isn't. If you want an "in" for why there should be sex in marriage, this isn't it.

    Hey, I'm not saying your intent is wrong, but this isn't the way.

  33. Anonymous says:

    Lainey, go to the Urban dictionary. "Fuckwit" is a descriptor as well as an insult.

    "Someone who despite constant failure, is unable to learn from these transgressions. Continues to do foolish and irritating things, which aggravate many people. They are not only a halfwit, but also significantly fucked in the head. Hence the term fuckwit. "

    The bit that says "Continues to do foolish and irritating things, which aggravate many people" is the key. He keeps asking for certain sexual acts a certain way at a certain time. This meets the definition of the bit that says "Continues to do foolish and irritating things, which aggravate many people", or in this case the one person who he specifically needs to NOT aggravate.

    Nothing in marriage allows you a pass for being a moron, not even alphadom.

  34. Mark says:

    Thanks, Ian.

    Anon, as Athol says about his own advice, it won't fix all marriages. Similarly, neither will confidence solve everyone's problems. But it's better than the alternative. By the way, since you imply that confidence leads to death, I'd like to point out that confidence does not mean rashness, stupidity, or a lack of humility.

  35. Lainey says:

    You sound very unhappy. What are you going to do about your marriage?

  36. (r)Evoluzione says:

    The trolls are waist-deep in here, most of them going by "anonymous."

  37. Anonymous says:

    @offTheCuff

    I agree about the trolling including the post just before this one. I was thinking the same thing with this and several other recent very defensive comments lately.

    Athol, you just need to delete troll comments like these, its not helpful to real guys who are trying to improve their marragies and sex life. I've been following your blog long enough to know that most women actually want their men to hear what you are telling them to do which is to basically, stop complaining, man up and improve yourself and hope you wife responds positively to it.

  38. horseman says:

    If marriage isnt an exchange what is it for in the age of feminism? The worst thing femonosm did for itself was show men we can cook clean raise kids and anything else by ourselves. We no longer need a woman so marriage is only if we want one. Same goes for women. Japan is seeing this in a whole generaton showimg no interest in marriage.

  39. horseman says:

    Everyone regardless of status deserves gracs and manners. Is humanity doomed when we are so comfortable that we will say things to the one out of all humanity we chose that we would not say to our worst enemy at work?
    Remember my motto. Redemption not remorse.

  40. 446 says:

    To "have and to hold" to "cleave unto one another forsaking all others". I believe that is direct and explicit, Anonymous.

  41. Ian Ironwood says:

    Oh, let them talk, even if they are trolls. As men, we gain nothing by not facing that which stands in our way. There are always going to be feminist trolls, white knights, nice guys, and just plain idiots. But we encounter all of these in our daily lives too, and should be prepared to deal with them all as they arise.

  42. pdwalker says:

    Unless, of course, you are one of those people who needs to argue about what the meaning if "is" is.

  43. Ian Ironwood says:

    Add in some Respect with that.

    When feminism rose from the depths to overthrow the Patriarchy, one of the cruelest things it did was totally undermine the societal respect for husbands and fathers in such a way that to this day finding a sitcom where hubby isn't a complete moron is impossible. This lack of respect crept into a lot of Beta marriages, and women felt no compunction about berating their men and treating them with disrespect.

    Post Red Pill, we see these things for the shit tests they are, but part of the Red Pill path is demanding respect, from your wife and from other people in your life. Not demanding it out of a sense of obligation, but demanding honest respect for your honest efforts. Demeaning and dehumanizing language only reinforces a man's betahood, and allowing it to stand long-term is a slow and painful way to go.

    So demand respect. You don't have to be a dick about it, but if she disrespects you for any reason, stop the conversation. Walk away. Let her know that you — a reasonable adult — will continue the conversation only when she is willing to grant you the respect you are due. If she is not willing to respect you as a man yet, then force her to respect you in your role as husband . . . and don't back down.

    That's key.

    I've seen women use a lot of different tools to reiterate a shit-test in a conflict with their husbands. Sex, for one. Emotional outbursts and emotional blackmail for another. Threats of leaving for someone better. Humiliation and emasculation are high on the list.

    But you can't put up with it. You must be resolute, unyielding, on this matter. If she is not willing to accord you simple respect and courtesy, then there's a lot of work to be done before sex happens — and if happens on her terms, then you've gained nothing.

  44. Chudley says:

    You can't force anyone to respect you. You can force them to defer to you, but that ain't the same thing.

  45. Chudley says:

    If it weren't for the trolls, this place would be waist deep in sycophantic agreement. That ain't helpful either.

  46. Anonymous says:

    446,

    that's “to adhere to, stick to, or join with.”

    Fidelity, not fucking.

  47. The Outsider says:

    Anon 2:24, that wasn't the question. You asked (or whoever it was) for the "part of the wedding service that EXPLICITLY says this."

    The answer is none, of course. No part explicitly says it. My point is, so what? The service doesn't explicitly say lots of things.

    The argument that abuse is covered in the law so it doesn't need to be in the vows is pretty unconvincing. The law regarding spousal abuse varies by time and place – especially when it comes to "emotional abuse." Would you like to argue that if a wife gets beat up someplace where it's not illegal or where a blind eye is turned she does not have moral grounds for divorce? Please make that case – I'm all ears.

  48. 446 says:

    Anonymous,

    What do you think they are talking about, the dishes?

    It's about sex. What else in life are you supposed to "forsake" all others about? You have relationships with other people. They may be appropriate or inappropriate but the only relationship that you are supposed to forsake with everyone but your spouse is a sexual relationship.

    Adhere, stick to, join with are specifically if not explicitly talking about SEXUAL fidelity because they don't say fucking in church. You are being intentionally dense here.

    I wish you and your spouse a long and happy relationship.
    446 Out.

  49. brian says:

    of course it's a transaction. Marriage is legalized prostitution. Why else would we marry? Because of your awesome insight into politics?! Your friendship? I have guys who can provide those things–they cant provide sex, hence I got married. Women need to be reminded of this.

  50. Anonymous says:

    keep the trolls posting here. every second they waste worrying about us is less time spent pushing their ideals around.

  51. Tank says:

    446,
    Awesome! Way to shut down a troll. Live long and prosper.

  52. Anonymous says:

    Men don't need wives, women don't need husbands. There really isn't much need for marriage at all and it certainly is expensive to get out of it.

    Unmarried couples living together have more sex anyway.

    –Jaz71

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