Reader: Athol, I’m coming to you because you are the most rational relationship guy I’ve found and I thought some of your past advice has been great. I’m wondering if you can help me out with a problem with my live-in girlfriend:
She pulled a flat-out irresponsible move and I don’t know what to do next.
We started dating back in June. She moved in with me in November. It seemed fast, I know, but it was largely a matter of practicality than anything. See, when I met her, she had a fairly menial job, a lot of debts from when she was in school, no car, a landlord breathing down her neck for some back rent money (i.e. she was flat ass broke). I will also add that she was living in a different, much smaller and much more pathetic town where jobs are getting scarcer and scarcer.
I’m in about the opposite situation, a graduate degree, no debts, and a fairly good job, although I’m not that rich because I’m just starting out in my career.
For reasons that I am now doubting, there was a large misunderstanding with a customer where she worked and she got fired from her job. At this point, since she had no money, I had two options: 1) let her stay with me and try to find a job in my much bigger town, or 2) let her go back to her parent’s place about 500 miles away, effectively ending the relationship.
Since I felt this one had so much promise, I choose option 1). Me and a buddy of mine even went a step further and used our connections to get her a job at the call center for the company we work at. Not a great job, mind you, but much better than the one she had and good considering she didn’t finish her degree. I also got her a relatively cheap car because I knew there was no way she could get back on her feet without one (we live in a decent sized town, but not big enough to have a great public transportation system).
For the first two months and a half months, things were good and I felt that we had a very captain-first mate type of relationship. We had even started planning a trip to Vegas in April.
Then comes Wednesday of last week. I had gotten approval for several days off in April (for the trip mentioned above) and forwarded the approval email to her work email because she worked at the same company as I did. It bounced back. She was not in the email system. I then realized that just last week she had gotten a certified letter from the company, which she told me was some work related stuff. I had put two and two together and realized that she had gotten fired and didn’t tell me about it.
I wanted to hear it from her and started asking a lot of questions about her work schedule (which was always screwy, and why, I figured, she was always off work when I got home), the not being in the system, and the certified letter. She lied quite a bit initially, but after a while she finally confessed that she actually stopped going about two weeks before and they had just now gotten around to officially terminating her.
I felt really betrayed. Not only that she just flat quit going to a job that me and my friend went out of our way to get for her, but also that she didn’t tell me about it until I figured it out. She told me she was just afraid to tell me, which I don’t doubt, but doesn’t change the fact that she just quit going to a job we had worked to get her.
I know that I have more than a little bit of blame here. I made things way too easy for her and didn’t really insist on her paying me for things like rent and the car, although we did have an informal agreement that she stuck to until just recently.
I don’t know what to do. In the short-term, I did make a more formal, written agreement about what I expect from her as a roommate and she has been at least attempting to make amends, searching hard for jobs, and selling stuff to bring in some money, so I’m a little more inclined towards forgiveness than I probably should be. It’s not like I don’t have any cards of my own to play (I’m not a complete beta dope), her name isn’t on the lease of the apartment we live in, so I could technically kick her out at any time, and the car is still registered to me until she pays for it.
Due to my beta past, I’m not too trusting of my instincts and need some guidance about what I should do. Should I stick out what has been, up to this point, a good relationship? Or should I just send her back to her folks and be done with it (which I would also have to pay for, mind you)?
Thanks
Athol: There’s nothing to salvage here sadly. Either you’ve been used from the beginning of her moving in, or she’s just completely incapable of holding anything together. Either way she’s just going to be a sandbag to drag through life until you’re rid of her.
I’d offer her $500 and a free moving truck. $500 (assuming you have it of course) seems generous I know, but throwing some cheese in front of her getting her to leave compliantly is very likely going to be quicker, easier and quite probably cheaper than any other solution.
Get the keys to the car, secure all your valuables.
Don’t have sex with her again. Seriously, just do not have sex with her again. ”Whoops I forgot my birth control pills” = $100,000 – $200,000 worth of child support over the next 18 years.
And head back and read Due Diligence Before You Marry.
Just for giggles… I suggest you also do a public record search to see if she has a criminal background. Most states have records that you can look at on their .gov website. In Connecticut for example it’s under “Judicial” at http://www.ct.gov/ or directly at http://www.jud.ct.gov/ You may turn up some interesting things about your girlfriend that you wished you had known before you invited her in. You can also look up prior Housing and Small Claims things as well. Also if she has an outstanding arrest warrant for anything, you can probably scare her out for good within an hour. You’d be surprised how long it takes the police to get around to arresting people sometimes.
I’ve often said the purpose of marriage is to have a functional, productive and happy life, not to save a woman. A LTR is no different. If she’s neither functional nor productive, you ain’t never going to be happy.
Jennifer: A place to live, a decent job, a car, a guy with good career potential being really nice to you. How is that not enough? Oy.
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Wow, yeah.
"She pulled a flat-out irresponsible move"
No, she is obviously an irresponsible person, and was so from the start. Bad job, debts, behind on payments… how could you even think this was relationship material?
"Since I felt this one had so much promise"
Ah, thinking with the little head instead of the big one…
I have to strongly second what Athol said: There is nothing to salvage here. To cop a phrase from Dave Ramsey, you made a bad decision and got yourself into a bind, and now you are going to have to pay some "stupid tax" to get out of it. But pay the tax and get out of the situation as fast as possible, because the longer you let it drag on, the more you will end up having to pay.
It sucks that she lied, but IMO this relationship was doomed from the start. I think there are major personality incompatibilities, amongst other things. Clearly, Reader is an organized guy who likes to know what the plan is and seems to place value in structure. Girlfriend seems more of a go-with-the-flow kinda girl to whom a plan is when a bunch of things happen because someone else made them happen. These relationships can work out, but this one won't.
Sometimes assistance can feel like control to people, even when you are being generous. I guarantee that this is one of those times, especially with the level of supervision that there seems to be.
I also recommend that Reader cuts this girl loose, finds a new girl who has a degree—since he obviously sees this as a big deal—and reads a few books on personalities to get a better feel for the fact that a leopard won't change her spots, even with a written roommate agreement. You can't mold someone into something they're not, especially in the midst of a relationship. Well, you can, but it's like building a shelter during a hurricane.
Run away…as fast as you can.
This girl is an anchor with feet.
She will ruin your life given the chance.
I think you should have great, unprotected sex with her, preferably AFTER you tell her that you're kicking her out. That way, she can provide evidence that you have raped her and can string you along for awhile.
Of course, since you've been so excellent at gauging her character so far, I'm sure as you reassure yourself that she would NEVER do something like that to you, is a reliable indication.
I'm guessing your graduate degree wasn't in psychology…
This!!
Hopefully you will be able to laugh in blessed relief one day.
She sounds like a keeper!
(you can read that sentence in the same way I'd say, "that sounds like sarcasm!")
Run awwwwayyyyyy!
Disentangle yourself with this woman forthwith. She is not worth the fucking she's giving you, for the fucking she'll give you.
At least you found out now…before kids are involved.
Get a voice-activated recorder and have it on you when you tell her to leave. And then have it on you at all times. This is the kind of woman who will make false abuse accusations.
Obviously, she just needs to be rescued some more. Since he is so good at that, he should just marry her and sign up for rescuing her on a permanent basis. That will work nicely for her until something (some one) better comes along.
Athol Kay, Angel First Class
Jason
Count your blessings. You're getting off cheap.
This is actually related to Athol's last post about acting life a wife. In your case, you started acting like a husband without the benefit of a marriage. Learn your lesson. Don't let girls move in with you. Don't make their problems your problems. This is a bad habit, one I share with you. The temptation to be a knight in shining armor is strong. But it's a sucker move.
The Outsider, this is perfect! Sone women will do what they can to hook a man, then kick back and ride the wave. Watching this happen right know with a couple I know. I hate seeing this play out over and over again.
Yup, you need to cross that bridge and burn the motherhumper down when you get to the other side, and do it as fast as possible. You need to understand that a person who would decieve you in the way she decieved you can never be a reliable partner in life… hell, she can't even be a reliable roommate. She might be one of those rare people capable of changing as a human being, but it is a process that will take years, and a process she has to undergo alone. The only thing you provide her with is an excuse to continue being the way she is.
You've got to accept that and move on. Your heart won't want to accept it, and it will probably refuse to do so for awhile, but you need to lead with your head on this one (no, the other head).
There's nothing wrong with a person who needs some help, and there's nothing inherently wrong with offering financial assistance to somebody you are romantically involved with (though it sure is a tricky business), but there's something severely wrong a person who responds to said assistance with betrayal and deception. You have been both decieved and betrayed. Continue at your own risk.
I think the consensus of opinion here is pretty clear — if you can't trust your bros, who can you trust? This woman is radioactive.
However.
While I agree with everyone else that you should terminate, there is always the possibility, however faint, that your dumping of her (especially if you enumerate the reasons) will give her the kick in the ass she obviously so desperately needs and never got. Treat her like a disruptive teen and drive her back to her mother's house. Explain to her that you are an adult and you refuse to accept anything less in a girlfriend, much less a wife. Then tell her if she gets her shit together enough to impress you in six months, call. If not, don't bother.
You never know what kind of effect getting dumped will have on her, but if at all possible keep an eye on her from a distance on the very off-chance that she grows up a little. But don't waste any more time or energy on her, no matter how hot she is or how much she begs. She's going to feel devastated, but there's no excuse for that kind of lying in a relationship.
And good show. Sometimes the Red Pill is bitter, sometimes it's sweet, but it should always be acknowledged.
I think sometimes I err on the side of, "I don't know this guy, I will give him the benefit of the doubt".
This time, I don't think I can.
You are a crutch for this chick.
You seem like a smart guy who is on top of things, you may piss all of that away by staying with her.
I am actually completely shocked that you have to even ask what to do. The sex must be mind blowing, and frequent, and it has clouded your judgement. I would take Athol's advice regarding the sex for the practical reasons he listed, but it also might help clear your head a bit to see this for what it is.
Good Luck
And, please, come back and tell us how it goes: what you have done, and the outcome of it.
I don't know if the kind of growth necessary to overcome the behaviour described here is possible in six months. She might be able to get her shit together financially in that timeframe, but more importantly we are talking about a fundamental change in this woman's core values. We are talking about developing new cognitive and social behaviors and practicing them until they become habitual and part of who she is. Even if she makes significant progress, I'd want to see at few years of it before I'd trust her again, and even then I'd have a hard time with it.
I do agree with you that this could be a catalyst that provokes a major change in her life, and literally driving her back to mom's house is a stellar idea.
Wow. Just wow that he needs to come here for advice on what to do. This woman was already damaged goods, she was broke, deep in debt and fired from her last job. Red flags deluxe! But he white knights all that. smh…
Just. Kick. Her. Out. and be thankful he finally caught on to her true colors before it's too late.
I like Athol's $500 and a truck suggestion. I'd be careful about getting in an enclosed space with this woman once the gig is up. (And don't assume her family will be rational.)
Jason
Well, he's not doing her next chump any favors unless he tells her explicitly and in no uncertain terms just why she fucked up and how it torpedoed their relationship. That would also help reiterate the reasons for the break-up in his mind, which should help inoculate him against explosive emotional displays or sudden attacks of slutty libido. Lecture her like she's fourteen and make her feel that old. Don't pull punches, don't worry about hurting her feelings. She gave up the right to be treated like an adult when she lied to him.
Sorry, this really does have to be a troll. No-one can be this gormless and not have starved to death!
You never know what kind of effect getting dumped will have on her, …
Yes we do. With absolute certainty, she is going to go out and get shagged by the first guy who crosses her shadow just to prove to herself and to you that she "still has it". She isn't going home to mother. She is going home to man #2 in her orbit.
@Chudley, I know at least one guy who got involved in a situation a lot like this. His SMV was less than stellar and his his sexual history was backward. She was hot and GGG, if a little kooky. He was lucky, just got off with chlamydia and a few bucks cheated.
Jason
I think once she is gone you should not get a girlfriend for a while but practice game on women for some time and get a little bit more experience with getting sex from tehm without being too involved. I think you need more practice with women in general before you are ready to handle being in a relationship with a woman. You will fall back into your beta habits way too fast. I also suspect that a single vagina has too much power over you. You need to expereince to a larger degree that there is plenty of other vaginas out there so that one vagina does not make you compromise your boundaries. I recomend you read David Deidas the way of the Superior man and spend a lot of time in teh manosphere to unplugg better. I think you should also read no more mister nice guy as it will further help you remove the unhealthy tendency to sacrifice yourself for women when you should not (sometimes you should). Weightlifting and martial arts would also be good to up your natural alpha in addition to looking deeply at your sense of self worth and boundaries.
Fine. But drive her ass to her mothers and make a point. If she slinks away without being instructed, it helps no one.
troll
Well, if it's a troll, do we have any troll-b-gone?
Being that the OP is an educated man, he should be aware that there is a scientific term for this type of woman: a worthless lying user (AWLU). Anyone wanna bet that she’s screwing your friend? Or some alpha male that treats her like shit? Hmmm, wonder what she’s been doing all day during those several weeks that she was not working and you presumed she was? Exactly.
Alrighty, the reader in question was kind enough to ask for advice and allow it to be published. There's no need to add insults to injurys.
He's not a troll, as evidenced by several other comments stating essentially the same situation.
Same situation here, I'm open to ideas for getting her TFO, with as little conflict as possible. She won't leave willingly, it's a "Oh, I will, just as soon as I can!" type of thing. I want her gone!
Tough one,
Either move yourself out, or take everything of hers and move it out into the sidewalk and then change the locks.
Good luck!
Just start pissing in the bed.
One word : bipolar. Informe yourself. And then RUN away and don't look back !
Agree with Athol—this bitch is 110 percent deadweight.
She has got to go.
2 weeks off the job and you don't know what she was doing with all that free time?!
Get. yourself. TESTED.
I can believe OP easily. I knew a very similar case, only the woman I knew waited until he proposed to quit her job, claiming that she was much too busy preparing for the wedding to have time to work. They did get married – it ended about as you'd expect.
I threatened to throw an ex-girlfriend out into the February night if she didn't shut up and find a place to go soon. Happily she made many calls and I took her to the bus station the next day.
Don't trust anything she says. After you lecture her, DO NOT respond to any questions or pleadings. Make your word stand and be done with it.
PDWALKER"
Either move yourself out, or take everything of hers and move it out into the sidewalk and then change the locks. "
Probably your best bet.
If her name is not on lease,I believe you can have her forcibly removed if necessary. But, if all else fails, send her out for day and get those locks changed and her shit out the door.
Who says her mother's even going to WANT her back? The girl was probably kicked out of her parents' home(s) for much the same reasons her boyfriend's considering doing so now. They may not be happy to have her back, parents get sick of supporting an adult child who shows no sign of wanting to leave the nest.
I'm with Athol's original plan of giving her a few hundred dollars and a moving truck to quietly go away-or waving any arrest warrants in her face and scaring her away for free.
This guys made the mistake of thinking his girlfriend would get her life back in order by supporting her.
She doesn't need to be responsible because he's shown that when she's down he'll pick her up.
Bailout, Bailout, Bailout!!!!
Athol's advice of the $500 is good. I don't think I'd add a moving truck to that. I might take her down to U-Hall and help her rent one, but in her name. Help her load the uhaul. Then goodbye.