Is Physical Affection Beta?

Reader:  One year ago, I took the red pill.  I found your blog through Captain Capitalism, and started running the MAP.  Actually ran it for awhile before buying your book.  Also took up Latin dancing ala the captain.  Huge DHV, and I tell my wife about all my dancing experiences……  Dread.  Thank you very much – you, and several others in the manosphere have made a great difference in my life.
One question – I am incredibly affectionate.  If there is a dog or cat in the house – they love me, because I will rub them for hours.  Baby – I am holding it, walking it around, shushing it.  My wife, unless we are actively fighting, I will automatically rub her back, legs, arms, hands head.  I sometimes withhold my affection – but it takes a conscious effort.  I am somewhat beta – but I am quite a bit alpha as well.  Is being affectionate beta???
Athol:  Physical touch is Alpha, Beta, or both depending on how you do it.
It sounds like you are doing lots of affectionate non-sexual touching, and very likely physical touch is your Love Language – you also love being touched in return right? That sort of touching is in fact Beta, by which I mean the good sort of Beta in that physically touching women creates a release of oxytocin in their bodies, which creates a sense of bonding and trust in you. It’s not as strong as the oxytocin release from making her orgasm, but it’s definitely a positive effect in building a huge stockpile of relationship comfort in your wife.
So if your wife likes it, it’s a good thing. Beta is a good thing.
However the question is whether or not you have all that Beta balanced with enough Alpha. You can also do that with physical touch by touching her in more intimate areas of her body. You can rub her back for a while and then slide your hands around and cup her breasts. When you kiss her you can grab her ass and give it a couple little love slaps. You can playfully pounce on her from behind while she’s at the kitchen sink and grind your crotch on her ass as you hug her from behind.
And of course stripping off her clothes, or getting your hands under her clothes is a more Alpha escalation as well.
This sort of thing is exactly what I do with Jennifer. I probably touch her in some way fifteen times in an evening in between coming home from work and going to bed. It’s some of it is incidental touch, and some of it purposely seeking her out. It’s a kiss, a hug, a squeeze and a fondle. It’s the “Groping” part of my “Goofy and Groping” interaction with her. Just talk some playful sexy nonsense with her and physically touch her on and off.
Just mix it up like you’re a cross between a labrador puppy and a sleazy octopus.
Warning: Do not attempt a “Breast Honk” move until things like pulling her hair, erotic spanking and totally forgetting to buy milk on the way home, make her smile.
Jennifer:  Athol is constantly touching me, and it’s a comforting, connecting thing…it doesn’t have to be a nod-nod, wink-wink, meet me in the bedroom baby kind of thing every time. Sometimes, yes, but not every time.

Irresponsible Girlfriend Just Stops Going To Work

Reader:  Athol, I’m coming to you because you are the most rational relationship guy I’ve found and I thought some of your past advice has been great. I’m wondering if you can help me out with a problem with my live-in girlfriend:
She pulled a flat-out irresponsible move and I don’t know what to do next.
We started dating back in June. She moved in with me in November. It seemed fast, I know, but it was largely a matter of practicality than anything. See, when I met her, she had a fairly menial job, a lot of debts from when she was in school, no car, a landlord breathing down her neck for some back rent money (i.e. she was flat ass broke). I will also add that she was living in a different, much smaller and much more pathetic town where jobs are getting scarcer and scarcer.
I’m in about the opposite situation, a graduate degree, no debts, and a fairly good job, although I’m not that rich because I’m just starting out in my career.
For reasons that I am now doubting, there was a large misunderstanding with a customer where she worked and she got fired from her job. At this point, since she had no money, I had two options: 1) let her stay with me and try to find a job in my much bigger town, or 2) let her go back to her parent’s place about 500 miles away, effectively ending the relationship.
Since I felt this one had so much promise, I choose option 1). Me and a buddy of mine even went a step further and used our connections to get her a job at the call center for the company we work at. Not a great job, mind you, but much better than the one she had and good considering she didn’t finish her degree. I also got her a relatively cheap car because I knew there was no way she could get back on her feet without one (we live in a decent sized town, but not big enough to have a great public transportation system).
For the first two months and a half months, things were good and I felt that we had a very captain-first mate type of relationship. We had even started planning a trip to Vegas in April.
Then comes Wednesday of last week. I had gotten approval for several days off in April (for the trip mentioned above) and forwarded the approval email to her work email because she worked at the same company as I did. It bounced back. She was not in the email system. I then realized that just last week she had gotten a certified letter from the company, which she told me was some work related stuff. I had put two and two together and realized that she had gotten fired and didn’t tell me about it.
I wanted to hear it from her and started asking a lot of questions about her work schedule (which was always screwy, and why, I  figured, she was always off work when I got home), the not being in the system, and the certified letter. She lied quite a bit initially, but after a while she finally confessed that she actually stopped going about two weeks before and they had just now gotten around to officially terminating her.
I felt really betrayed. Not only that she just flat quit going to a job that me and my friend went out of our way to get for her, but also that she didn’t tell me about it until I figured it out. She told me she was just afraid to tell me, which I don’t doubt, but doesn’t change the fact that she just quit going to a job we had worked to get her.
I know that I have more than a little bit of blame here. I made things way too easy for her and didn’t really insist on her paying me for things like rent and the car, although we did have an informal agreement that she stuck to until just recently.
I don’t know what to do. In the short-term, I did make a more formal, written agreement about what I expect from her as a roommate and she has been at least attempting to make amends, searching hard for jobs, and selling stuff to bring in some money, so I’m a little more inclined towards forgiveness than I probably should be. It’s not like I don’t have any cards of my own to play (I’m not a complete beta dope), her name isn’t on the lease of the apartment we live in, so I could technically kick her out at any time, and the car is still registered to me until she pays for it.
Due to my beta past, I’m not too trusting of my instincts and need some guidance about what I should do. Should I stick out what has been, up to this point, a good relationship? Or should I just send her back to her folks and be done with it (which I would also have to pay for, mind you)?
Athol:  There’s nothing to salvage here sadly. Either you’ve been used from the beginning of her moving in, or she’s just completely incapable of holding anything together. Either way she’s just going to be a sandbag to drag through life until you’re rid of her.

I’d offer her $500 and a free moving truck. $500 (assuming you have it of course) seems generous I know, but throwing some cheese in front of her getting her to leave compliantly is very likely going to be quicker, easier and quite probably cheaper than any other solution.

Get the keys to the car, secure all your valuables.

Don’t have sex with her again. Seriously, just do not have sex with her again. “Whoops I forgot my birth control pills” = $100,000 – $200,000 worth of child support over the next 18 years.

And head back and read Due Diligence Before You Marry.
Just for giggles… I suggest you also do a public record search to see if she has a criminal background. Most states have records that you can look at on their .gov website. In Connecticut for example it’s under “Judicial” at  or directly at    You may turn up some interesting things about your girlfriend that you wished you had known before you invited her in. You can also look up prior Housing and Small Claims things as well. Also if she has an outstanding arrest warrant for anything, you can probably scare her out for good within an hour. You’d be surprised how long it takes the police to get around to arresting people sometimes.
I’ve often said the purpose of marriage is to have a functional, productive and happy life, not to save a woman. A LTR is no different. If she’s neither functional nor productive, you ain’t never going to be happy.
Jennifer: A place to live, a decent job, a car, a guy with good career potential being really nice to you. How is that not enough? Oy.

If You Cannot Act Like My Wife, You Cannot Be My Wife

Some comments on Overcoming Approach Anxiety
Reader:  And when she doesn’t flinch, looks you straight in the eye and in a low, slow confident voice tells you:   “Go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut.”
You’ll know SHE’s for real too!
The Outsider left an excellent comment in response…
The Outsider:  I know what you are describing, believe me, I’ve been there. You’ve laid a foundation of beta and that’s no easy thing to undo. Especially not in an instant in the bedroom. The point is that every interaction you have with her is an opportunity to start changing it. If she reacts badly to a sexual demand your response is important. You can take it back and fall into the same pattern you’ve established. Or you can let it stand and start building a new pattern.
Listen, it’s probably not going to work the first time. She’s not used to taking you seriously. But hold your frame. You *are* are guy who acts this way. If you neglected brushing your teeth for years, you wouldn’t expect to get everything ship-shape in one day. And the first time you floss it might get worse – your gums will bleed and it will hurt. But if you keep brushing every day pretty soon it will get better.
It’s going to take time for her to adjust, too. But she will, and she’ll be happier. Obviously I don’t know your wife, but it’s a safe bet that she doesn’t really want the role she’s got now. She doesn’t want the responsibility, and she almost certainly harbors a certain amount of contempt for you because you’ve allowed her to take it. You’re not doing your job!
That sex with a sense of obligation is the worst, isn’t it. It makes you feel about this big. Have you considered turning it down? This may be delicate, you don’t want to seem petulant. But it could send a strong signal that this isn’t about her doing you a favor. “Listen, I can tell you’re not into this. That’s cool. Let’s do it tomorrow instead.” This does two things. First, it gives you some control over the situation and shows you’re not just about begging her to ration it out. Second, it builds some anticipation for the next night, which is always good.
(I wonder what Athol’s take is on that idea.)
….and the reply comment…
Reader:  Outsider said…
“Listen, I can tell you’re not into this. That’s cool. Let’s do it tomorrow instead.”
And she says…
“The answer will be the same tomorrow, fuckwit, and the day after that…”
Athol:  I agree with The Outsider’s comment. It takes time, it’s a process, but you can get there.
Barring medical issues, medications and past sexual trauma, everything I talk about in terms of getting your sex life back on track boils down to a few simple concepts.
(1)  If she doesn’t want to have sex with you, it’s because she isn’t attracted to you. Therefore the solution is to become attractive to her in the hope that sex will resume again.   (If it’s a medical issue, medication or past trauma, you have to deal with that as well, or you won’t have much success.)
(2)  If you have become fairly well maxed out in your attractiveness to women in general, and your wife is still not sexually responding to you, there’s nothing else you can do to make her want to have sex with you. . 
(3)  If you wife does resume being sexually interested in you, that’s great. If your wife does not become sexually interested in you, you are in a much better place to find a woman that is interested in you sexually. So either way, you’re still better off for having committed to the process of self-improvement and becoming more attractive to women.
So when she tells you to “go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut,” you’re probably somewhere at the beginning of getting yourself together. In time she may change her mind and become more attracted to you. The correct response is “A simple ‘no’ will suffice,” and to head off to the gym.
When she says “The answer will be the same tomorrow, fuckwit, and the day after that…” the correct response is, “You’re assuming I’m going to keep asking you.”
As unromantic as it sounds, marriage is an economic transaction. The woman sells “wife” and the man sells “husband”. The woman buys “husband” and the man buys “wife”. Part of the job description of “wife” is having sex with her husband. Part of the job description of “husband” is being someone a wife would want to have sex with.
If you keep up your self-improvement, you will arrive at a Zen-like moment where you are acutely aware that she’s getting everything she wants from you, and you’re getting nothing you want from her. Plus you’ll know you’re actually confident enough to leave her and find someone better than her with minimal effort. So it’s an exploitative relationship, you’re on the unhappy end of the exploiting and you can end the relationship at will.

Marriage is by definition a sexual relationship. Never apologize for wanting a sexual relationship with your wife.

MMSL isn’t a magic love potion. I can’t promise she will love you again, or your marriage will survive. I can promise you’ll become more attractive and get your balls back though. At least enough to say when you’re hotter than she is…
“If you cannot act like my wife, you cannot be my wife.”

The Copulatory Gaze

Reader:  1) How do I overcome my wife’s so-called cum aversion?
2) I find I’m much bolder over email when asking for exactly what I want than I am in person, any advice on that?
3) In the book you say to act indifferent when shot down for sex.  Isn’t that kind of playing the nice guy card consistently?  (speaking in prisoner’s dilemma terms)?
I got shot down this morning, I went in and told her I wanted to bend her over the sink as she was getting ready for work.  She said she didn’t want to be sticky with cum all day.  So then I find myself sitting here writing her an email that I want to cum on her tits tonight (didn’t send it thought it better to write this to you instead).  I have a lot of trouble with saying that to her face.  Obviously I am a natural beta (or at least society has beaten me into one).
Any advice would be appreciated.
Athol:  If you want morning sex, you have to get to it before she has a shower / starts getting ready for work. What she really means when she says she doesn’t want to be all sticky with cum all day is… “She really doesn’t want to be sticky with cum all day.”  The cum would slowly run back out of her through the morning and that would make her have to wear a pad or something. Basically it all amounts to “Do not want.” for the same reasons you wouldn’t want to blow a load into your underwear and then wear the underwear all day.  Jennifer: YES!  It’s really a practical thing…if he approaches me pre-shower, game on.  Post-shower it’s going to be a sticky day, which can be awkward at work…
Now if you can fuck her so well the night before that she still has some residual oozing out of her the next morning, that’s perfectly fine. That’s a turn on for her because it forces her to remember just how good you were.
I tend not to try morning sex on Jennifer during the week, but I do hit on her in the morning. If she’s bending over the sink putting on make up, she’s an easy target for feeling her up a little, or softly grinding on her ass, but not actually trying to convert to having sex right then. Also because I’m not trying to convert to sex right before she goes to work, she can relax and enjoy being felt up and played with. A Saturday or Sunday morning is a different story as there’s actual possibility to get it on. Usually it’s cuddling in spoons and lightly glazing her ass with pre-cum as my main tactic of stating intentions.
There’s also very typically a point where she turns and gives me a direct eye contact look waiting on my decision to actually tell her I want sex. She does this when she’s reached her most interested point in having sex herself. The look is a non-verbal, “So are you going to ask me for sex or not?”   The same thing can happen with other female questions, “So are you going to ask me out or not?” “So are you going to kiss me or not?”  She will stop what she is doing, look directly at you and  give you her full attention, say nothing, and wait for a few seconds while she holds eye contact. Watch for it and immediately make your move. That’s your window of opportunity.
In terms of acting indifferent to her refusals, no it’s not the Nice Guy card. The Nice Guy card tends to escalate the being nice trying even harder to convince her to give up the pussy to him. The Nice Guys become more needy and supplicating. Walking away and being cool about it is the opposite of that. If you act like she has a Kryptonite vagina, then she has power over you. If you act unaffected by the refusal, the vagina loses it’s power to control you.
After endless persistent refusals of course, you can start the consideration of getting your needs met by other vaginas. But if you’re averaging sex 2-4 times a week, her declining on Tuesday isn’t a big deal if you have a good likelihood of sex on Wednesday. Throwing a fit on Tuesday though, means Wednesday is less likely to happen.

There’s no good solution to the in-person shyness thing with her. Just keep asking for what you want. Texting is great for stating intentions too. Once you ask for something via text, never take it back if she doesn’t immediately respond to you. Just be patient. Never apologize for wanting to have sex with your wife.

So be playfully engaging constantly, but when she makes deep eye contact… make a move.

Overcoming Approach Anxiety

Reader:  In your most recent blog post, you mention that men in general should make the first move. I agree with this about 90% of the time. Men really should be the pursuers. After reading your blog and some of the more men-centric blogs (namely Chateau Heartiste), I’ve come to realize more and more of myself that I need to either work on or emphasize.
That being said, I get significantly nervous when attempting to make a move on a woman I’m interested in. If I don’t care too much about the outcome, then I’m loose enough and things actually work better. But when I care about the outcome, I get nervous and feel awkward and have a difficult time making the move. I know if the woman made a move, then my nerves would just melt away and then I’d be back in control . Time and time again I’ve had this happen to me. I know you’re not necessarily in the business of giving advice to people out in the dating marketplace, but do you have any recommendations? Things that a 30/70 alpha/beta could actually do?
Thanks man. I appreciate it. While I got to your blog too late to save my previous marriage, I still value it immensely, especially as I go about finding the woman that will reap the benefits of my MMSL-induced improvements.
Athol:  My advice to overcoming approach anxiety is:

(1)  Approach any and all women you meet and engage them in conversation without any intent to convert that into a phone number / date / sweaty horizontal embrace. The goal is just to have an enjoyable interaction with them. Even if it’s just a few seconds long, it’s not a problem. Don’t lurk places waiting for women to cross your path, just if one does, be engaging for a few moments and see where it goes.

(2)  Understand that there is about a three second delay between considering approaching an attractive woman, and the anxiety kicking in. It takes time for your body to process the need to be anxious and actually start releasing the hormones to make you start panicking. Once you’re actually engaged with her though, the anxiety doesn’t tend to kick in. So you literally have a three second window between seeing the pretty girl, and starting to talk to her, before the anxiety starts So become impulsive about talking to women.

(1) and (2) work together very well. See a woman, say hi. Nice shoes…

Also (3), Work on your physical fitness and muscle mass. This doesn’t sound like a direct method for dealing with approach anxiety, but it really is a useful thing. Approach Anxiety is basically the flight or fight reflex, the fear creating the anxiety isn’t so much the potential of the her rejecting you, but your Body Agenda prepping for dealing with an Alpha Male making a beeline for you and giving you a warning off punch in the face. So you’re prepping to either fight the guy, or run from him. Adding physical strength makes your Body Agenda feel more confident about winning a fight, so it feels calmer and more confident about approaching women. Women of course directly sense your confidence, and having confidence makes them evaluate you as more of an Alpha Male yourself. So it’s a positive feedback thing.

Repeat approaches also build confidence.

All in all, you just have to approach, approach, approach.

Oh and don’t underestimate this as a skill for husbands to have either. A fluid interaction with an attractive woman in front of your wife can go a long way with sparking your wife’s interest in you. Note I said “fluid interaction,” as opposed to “hit on her like a drunken idiot.” If you need a basic techinque for this, compliment her on something, and then redirect your attention to someone else fairly quickly. Don’t give the other woman her three seconds of attention lock-on after the compliment, that will put her shields up and your wifes too lol.

Girl Game: If He’s Into You, He’ll Ask You Out

A lot of interlinked questions…
Reader:  Hi Athol, I had written to you awhile back about my high school daughter and future dating,etc in which you responded with the blog –the purpose of high school is to get an education not herpes!
Anyway, we felt you were right on with that one.  You mentioned getting the book –The Rules—which we did.   We (husband included) thought it was great and have been using the basic principles in day to day interactions with others too.   What I was wondering,  in the beginning on a relationship, the book stresses not approaching the guy/man first—not even looking at them, etc.  How important do you think that is ?   How into the woman will the man be long term (marriage, etc.)  if she does the initial approach?
It seems like most problems with people have to do with a mismatched sex rank.  How do prevent that from the very start?  Also, I’m wondering how much of it has to do with deep down hormone levels that we aren’t even conscious of.  I’ve read you can detect levels through smell.  Maybe the mismatch comes from a mismatched hormone levels.  I’ve read men’s testosterone levels drop with marriage and fatherhood.  As the levels drop, maybe the woman subconsciously senses this and becomes less attracted.  If the levels stay up with exercise, weight lifting, diet, etc.  maybe the woman’s attraction stays up too?
You may have written about this already.  My daughter has mentioned that one of her friends is on her third boyfriend this year and she herself has had none (good thing!)  I wonder how much of it has to do with the way she smells.  Very animalistic isn’t it? Thanks!
Athol:  “The Rules” essentially boils down to a description of how women can display high value as a way of pulling male attention. High value women are approached by men, and with high frequently. When she approaches him, she’s basically tipped her hand that she is interested in him, and the implication is that he’s a higher Sex Rank than she is. Once that happens, the male is no longer in pursuit mode, and the dopamine shuts down because he no longer needs to make any risk taking moves to get her attention and gain her interest. Which essentially makes him react to her with “cool.” (Which drives her crazier for him because of the hypergamy factor)

If all you’re looking for is a hook-up, then it’s no problem to make the first move. But in terms of getting to an actual relationship, it’s not the greatest of ideas to make the first move if you’re a female. You’re better off displaying higher value and waiting it out.

However, I’m not convinced that not even looking at them is of value. That’s running into the “cold distant bitch” zone. Be pleasant, engaging and fun, but he’s the one that should be trying to escalate things – typically an isolation play. “Hey, you want to go get coffee?”

I’m not sure I have a firm answer to the mismatched Sex Rank thing. It’s easy to turn things on for a short period, and then once the relationship is solidified, to go “Phew!” and relapse to your normal baseline. Some times people self-improve once they are in a relationship, or suddenly gain confidence “hey I can do this!” and so on. Some people lie their ass off too and purposely cover things up that their partner should know about. 
Women can’t smell male testosterone as far as I know, but they can through sense of smell unconsciously identify men that have a good immune system compatibility for creating a healthy baby. The major negative effect on her sense of smell is taking hormonal birth control as it tends to create a reversal effect in the men she is attracted to. So if a couple meets when she is off birth control pills, and then she starts on them, she can have a libido reduction from the birth control pills in a general sense and a reduction in her attraction to her partner in a specific sense. So for some couples it’s a real downer.

The other way it works is if a couple meet and she is on birth control pills, once she’s off them to try and have kids or use a different method, she can feel less attracted to her partner. Plus she may not be as genetically compatible with him as she could be, leading to poorer outcomes with pregnancy and the baby’s health. Before anyone panics though, bear in mind that these are simply influences on the outcome and not destiny. Plus there’s still a lot of science left to do on this stuff.

The volume of testosterone in men does take a two-step dip down after marriage and the arrival of a baby Primarily the male has a lot of testosterone to assist in engaging in risky mate finding behaviors, but having reached the Body Agenda goal of actually getting a mate and having a child, the Body Agenda turns to a more conservative strategy of defending what they have. Thus men tend to become more settled and calm after getting married and having children. Or put another way, men who have no offspring have from a Body Agenda perspective, have nothing to lose. While those that have offspring do have something to lose, so they play it safe.

Testosterone drop in aging men plays a role in diminished libido, energy levels, mood, impulsivity and a ton of other things that are generally sexy. So the results of lower testosterone levels can be an attraction killer for the women. And yes, exercise, diet and weights can increase the testosterone level in men, so generally a good thing for overall male health.

I don’t know your daughter or her friend, so I have no idea why the difference is as it is. High school is an awkward age for some kids, and some peak early. You never know how people will turn out over the very long haul.

And yes, sex is very animalistic. It’s a very humbling thing sometimes to have your body suddenly want to lurch itself toward someone you know isn’t a good idea to be in a relationship with, and then become non-reactive with someone you know is a good idea to be in a relationship with. The trick is finding that person that is the balance that can do at least some of both.

Which brings us full circle to whether or not a woman should make the first move. If she has to make the first move, he’s just not that into her enough on a Body Agenda level to be motivated to make the first move. That’s not particularly fixable either, so she can waste her best years trying to get him to react like he’s into her before she figures out it’s just wasting her time. This is a driving force behind the thing where the long time girlfriend begs and pleads with her boyfriend to marry her, but he’s “Just not interested in being married.” So eventually she splits from him and then within a year he’s getting married to his new girlfriend. Cue up, “He said he would never get married and now he’s getting married to someone else, why didn’t he marry me?!?!”

So the first move thing acts as a very basic screening tool for women. If he’s into you, he’ll ask you out.