The Copulatory Gaze

Reader:  1) How do I overcome my wife’s so-called cum aversion?
2) I find I’m much bolder over email when asking for exactly what I want than I am in person, any advice on that?
3) In the book you say to act indifferent when shot down for sex.  Isn’t that kind of playing the nice guy card consistently?  (speaking in prisoner’s dilemma terms)?
I got shot down this morning, I went in and told her I wanted to bend her over the sink as she was getting ready for work.  She said she didn’t want to be sticky with cum all day.  So then I find myself sitting here writing her an email that I want to cum on her tits tonight (didn’t send it thought it better to write this to you instead).  I have a lot of trouble with saying that to her face.  Obviously I am a natural beta (or at least society has beaten me into one).
Any advice would be appreciated.
Athol:  If you want morning sex, you have to get to it before she has a shower / starts getting ready for work. What she really means when she says she doesn’t want to be all sticky with cum all day is… “She really doesn’t want to be sticky with cum all day.”  The cum would slowly run back out of her through the morning and that would make her have to wear a pad or something. Basically it all amounts to “Do not want.” for the same reasons you wouldn’t want to blow a load into your underwear and then wear the underwear all day.  Jennifer: YES!  It’s really a practical thing…if he approaches me pre-shower, game on.  Post-shower it’s going to be a sticky day, which can be awkward at work…
Now if you can fuck her so well the night before that she still has some residual oozing out of her the next morning, that’s perfectly fine. That’s a turn on for her because it forces her to remember just how good you were.
I tend not to try morning sex on Jennifer during the week, but I do hit on her in the morning. If she’s bending over the sink putting on make up, she’s an easy target for feeling her up a little, or softly grinding on her ass, but not actually trying to convert to having sex right then. Also because I’m not trying to convert to sex right before she goes to work, she can relax and enjoy being felt up and played with. A Saturday or Sunday morning is a different story as there’s actual possibility to get it on. Usually it’s cuddling in spoons and lightly glazing her ass with pre-cum as my main tactic of stating intentions.
There’s also very typically a point where she turns and gives me a direct eye contact look waiting on my decision to actually tell her I want sex. She does this when she’s reached her most interested point in having sex herself. The look is a non-verbal, “So are you going to ask me for sex or not?”   The same thing can happen with other female questions, “So are you going to ask me out or not?” “So are you going to kiss me or not?”  She will stop what she is doing, look directly at you and  give you her full attention, say nothing, and wait for a few seconds while she holds eye contact. Watch for it and immediately make your move. That’s your window of opportunity.
In terms of acting indifferent to her refusals, no it’s not the Nice Guy card. The Nice Guy card tends to escalate the being nice trying even harder to convince her to give up the pussy to him. The Nice Guys become more needy and supplicating. Walking away and being cool about it is the opposite of that. If you act like she has a Kryptonite vagina, then she has power over you. If you act unaffected by the refusal, the vagina loses it’s power to control you.
After endless persistent refusals of course, you can start the consideration of getting your needs met by other vaginas. But if you’re averaging sex 2-4 times a week, her declining on Tuesday isn’t a big deal if you have a good likelihood of sex on Wednesday. Throwing a fit on Tuesday though, means Wednesday is less likely to happen.

There’s no good solution to the in-person shyness thing with her. Just keep asking for what you want. Texting is great for stating intentions too. Once you ask for something via text, never take it back if she doesn’t immediately respond to you. Just be patient. Never apologize for wanting to have sex with your wife.

So be playfully engaging constantly, but when she makes deep eye contact… make a move.


  1. And if your wife never makes deep eye contact, what then…?

  2. Interesting post Athol – I will share it with others. Upon reflection, I realise that all the times the Great Love of My Life has not converted seduction into sex has been when I've not done the eye contact thing. I actually wanted him to take things further, but my libido was low due to menopause so my reactions were muted. I solved the problem by telling him to take the initiative at appropriate times and take things to the next level even if I was not as enthusiastic as before. Of course, he is pretty intuitive and considerate and would not push things at the wrong time and I could of course always say no (which I have never done). My advice to the previous commenter (hello, I'm Candice) is to look out for other signs of interest and perhaps talk to your wife about her reactions and body language and what they mean. I am interested to hear what Athol suggests!
    :-) C

  3. Stargate Girl says:

    Sexting is a great suggestion! Husband and I flirt and talk naughty to each other throughout the day via texts. I find it easier to be very naughty in my commentary that way than I do face to face…. I also think it's easier for him as well. And as Athol has indicated, gets your mind working and amped for the evening to come. :D So go ahead, text her you want to blow your hot, steaming load all over her tits :D

  4. On the sex-rejection thing: I had real trouble with the I-got-turned-down-for-sex-bitch-fit. I had a hard time doing laissez-faire after rejection.

    What turned it around for me was working on me. If I get turned down for sex I:
    1) manscape
    2) work out
    3) upgrade wardrobe
    4) etc.

    I pick some activity to upgrade my SMV. I make sure to flirt the next day, wear cologne, dress up and look good.

    First time I tried this spouse was PISSY. When carpool van picked me up with all women who whistled and cat-called (was properly mixed by the time we got to interstate), I got JUMPED when I got home. Now, rejection-subtly up SMV-hot sex is pretty standard.

    Manipulation? yes. Lucky timing? yes. Does she enjoy the sex? Yes.

  5. What ever happened to pulling out and blowing your wod in the sink. Then she doesn't have to worry about cum dripping down her va-jay-jay. Is there

  6. Send her a sexy text so you guys get together later in the day. Is she open to you cumming on her? If not, this is something you should talk about first. We like to lie in bed afterwards (if we can) and talk about things we like or want to do another time.

    I'm not an expert though. I'm still trying to get my honey to pull my hair harder. LOL

  7. Anonymous says:

    OP: SEXY MOVE – Leave an Impression

    While she's getting ready, pop into the bathroom, go for a hug from behind her. Do a little grinding, groping, kissing the neck, and then bounce! Send one or two texts during the day, never responding to hers, and you'll be getting what you want come days end.

  8. Anonymous says:

    My wife avoids all eye contact too. Look's away like she's embarrassed, or just shut's her eyes long before we get to that point.

  9. Eye contact is so important. You guys want to know that we are WITH you and not imagining someone else.

  10. Actually the wardrobe thing is SOOoooo important. I wear a lot of barn cloths around the house but I wear a suit for work most days. I've noticed on the days she drives me to work and notices the attention I get from all the nurses at work she is a lot less prissy when she comes to pick me up.

    Still no sex but the less bitchy attitude is a plus. And she is starting to realize there are other options.

  11. "Still no sex but the less bitchy attitude is a plus. And she is starting to realize there are other options."

    Good for you, horseman. I am liking the map because it causes a spouse to better themselves and not get caught up in the depression of an unhappy marriage. So important.

  12. Stargate Girl says:

    Really? I've never hear of doing that. I get pulling out, blowing load on ass, tits, face…. but sink? That seems like it'd get rather frustrating for guy…. it'd be frustrating for me…. i like load on or in me.

  13. Stargate Girl says:

    OP "She said she didn't want to be sticky with cum all day"

    I get that, and at same time makes me sad for you. I seem to always have cum dripping(hubby likes to keep me "topped off") Obviuosly, I can smell it on myself when I hit the bathroom, and quite frankly…. it's a turn on. Can't wait to get home to attack hubby again…..

    Grab her before shower and mess her up good !

  14. "Still no sex but the less bitchy attitude is a plus. And she is starting to realize there are other options."

    That woman needs to wake up and see what she's got. Only a few more years left to try to make it work.

    Good for you for taking care of yourself, and not taking her rejection personally.

  15. A lot comes from working with my ponies. You don't tell a 2000 lb Belgian to raise her foot to clean it. You ask. If she respects you she'll lift it. If she doesn't a forklift won't move it. Now a simple look is all it takes. Horses are the best lie detector. They smell bullshit and have no place for it. Everything to them is respect and place in the herd.

    Ian and Athol's pages were a life saver. Transferred from the barn to the house.

    My motto now is Redemption not Regret.

    Think Boromir after trying to take the ring. On his knees, arrows in his chest. That split second when he looks at Merry and Pippin and rises to defend them. Redemption.

  16. Cecil Henry says:

    Hi Athol:

    I don't know whether you usually answer individual questions, but I was interested in your comments on this situation. Its my brother and his marriage.

    Basically, his wife is walking all over him and not respecting him because he's such a nice guy. So, for example, when he comes home (they both work) she says she's tired and he's needs to be understanding so he ends up making the dinner, taking care of the kids… He has to be the father AND half the mother too. It really makes me angry to see his concern being exploited and unreciprocated. Furthermore the more he helps the more she complains. For HER 40th birthday she asked for and got a $60,000 conservatory built and she is whining about every aspect of its construction as it is being built right now.

    Now she has announced that for her son's birthday next week — 'she won't be doing the party' and my brother has to do all the work or the boy won't get a cake or party. She acts more like a big sister to her own children than a mother. Thank God for the grandparents who try to help out.

    Her attitude is she does what she wants and everything else should be done by him because if he doesn't– well he doesn't care for her. (I've never heard that said, but it is implied).

    What can he do to make her show some respect and share the responsibilities? And frankly, she needs to learn some obedience to her husband. How can he be 'less nice' while still loving her? Should I say something to him about this situation— it is making him sick and exhausting him emotionally and spiritually over the years. Its not good, and it makes me angry to see it. I could say a lot but it might do more damage than good– and its not directly my business except that its my brother and I love his kids too.

    It feels wrong to sit back and remain indifferent; but it feels like I'm sticking my nose in someone's else's business if I do.

    Thanks for any help.

  17. Cecil

    Been there done that. Basically he has to find it in him to man up, run Athol's brilliant MAP process and raise his rank and destabilize the relationship. Right now she owns him and they both know it. Sounds like total disrespect let alone attraction.

    If he can afford a 60K gift then he must make good coin. Right there thats worth 1-2 points to women on the outside. I'm not sure if he is in an alimony state but he will get hit for the child suppport.
    Until she feels the cush life is in jeapordy she has no reason to change.

    Best you can do is be supportive and show him what his value is to other women. He is either too beaten down or too deep in a case of oneitis to see it.
    It may take a long time and something major to make him man up and break the current mold. When it does happen he will take a huge psyche shot so he will need you there for him.
    Sounds like your a great brother and a good man. Show him he can be one too.

  18. Cecil Henry says:

    How would you (or would you) try to make him aware of sites like MMSL, alpha/beta issues without being condescending or seeming to offer an opinion on his behavior as a man.

    I'm no expert on relationships, but I know this is unacceptable and in a subtle way, very degrading to his self respect.

  19. Having been there for 20+ years until I broke free…deep down he knows exactly what his behaviour is. He is just trapped in his own paradim. He needs an outside frame of reference.

    Send him the link to MMSL, one of the pages on Captaincy or beta.
    He will EVENTUALLY recognize himself. Eventually because he uses rationalization to hide the truth from himself.
    He has to take the red pill himself you cant give it to him, just let him know it exists. In the mean time be supportive.

  20. If you do it right, handling the rejection of sex with coolness should have her hamster thinking "if I don't give it to him, he's going to go find it with someone else." this is the effect your trying to get. Dread as roissy would put it. How that motivates your wife tells you where your relationship is.

  21. Anonymous says:

    And beyond being tempted any more too…

  22. Ian Ironwood says:

    "Love enters the soul through the eyes" — Game of Thrones

    Eye contact can be a powerful tool to display dominance. Don't be afraid of compelling her gaze, if you want to help break her out of her rut. It might make her uncomfortable, but being excited is rarely comfortable.

  23. Ian Ironwood says:

    The nerdery, it is delicious . . .

  24. Anonymous says:

    Can you explain further? How does this work in a long term committed marraige when your wife knows you won't go "get it somewhere else" over some rejections. I can understand the continual rejection say for a couple of months and then you acted unbothered by it that she would seriously wonder. But what about just getting rejected normally 3 out of 4 times. i.e. your still having fairly regular sex, just that she is not that into it and isn't in the mood. When I handle this type of rejections cooly, my wife is just glad that I'm not pushing it, she doesn't start to worry that I might find it "somewhere else". I want for this to work, any more thought on this from anybody?

  25. Anonymous says:


    what's the best technique for prying open her eyelids when she shuts them to avoid eye contact?

  26. Athol Kay says:

    Brought the book?

  27. Uhhhh…condoms? Use condoms in the mornings?


  28. It's the cum from both parties. Condoms or not. My wife is the same way. Once she is showered there is no chance. Her mind is getting the day ready and the kids planned for out the door.

    Rule of mornings is Alpha before or during the shower Beta once she's out. Get the lunches ready and ,are the kids hustle. Throw the coffee on, etc.

  29. Anonymous says:

    Say "Look at me." It's that easy.

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