A multitude of questions and concerns in a comment on “If She Doesn’t Want You, Others Will“. It’s long so question and answer as we go. I don’t mean to drag this out, but it is important that MMSL is able to be defensible.
Reader: Is this what we can expect from men? To have a gaming technique used on us until we are bedded and left? Just another notch on the bedpost and hopefully without a disease from their frequent conquests? I hope I am not single again anytime soon,it makes me shudder. Is this what you want for your daughters and sisters?
Athol: Game is sort of a Jedi Mind Trick in that it works, but only on the weak minded. For women who know what Game is and can consciously recognize it, it’s less effective. Not ineffective, just less effective.
The dating marketplace for age 40+ women is pretty brutal as there is a fairly blunt expectation of sex quite soon in the dating process compared to days gone by. I’m not advising that… just saying how it is.
Your daughters and sisters are only going out into the dating market as lambs to the slaughter if you fail to educate them. There’s no requirement to be pump and dumped by players. I don’t buy into the notion that women are incapable of learning or being required to passively accept their fate. I would hope that you expect more from your daughters and sisters than simply being clueless lost sheep in need of rescue.
Reader: Gaming may “work” but isn’t there a cost for women here that is rather sad and possibly for healthy relationships of trust between men and women?
Athol: There’s probably not a single man reading this blog who hasn’t had his heart ripped out by a woman rejecting him for his lack of Game at some point in his life. Many of the male readers of this blog are in sexless marriages too. So learning Game is pure and simple a requirement for the average guy dealing with women. We’re learning it to simply be able to have a relationship with women.
MMSL also has a very high percentage of female readers, many of whom read because their own relationships have become happier for their husband reading here. Women quite enjoy being Gamed provided the guy isn’t going to pump and dump them. Typically my reader husbands aren’t looking to divorce their wife, they are looking to avert divorce and/or make the marriage better. MMSL is like “Husband Finishing School” and churns out men better able to be attractive husbands.
One of my more frequent complaints is that I’m a closet feminist catering to women’s wants by telling husbands how to actually give the wives what they want!
Reader: There is still an implied “should” or “must” list here for wives. The man follows the MAP and the woman should or must respond with increased interest.
Athol: That’s nearly right. The implied “should” or “must” is what the woman promised to the man when she married him… i.e. a sex life. If she fails to hold up her end of the marriage agreement, and frankly never intends to do so, yet demands the man hold up his, that’s an exploitative arrangement. The MAP simply empowers men to leave the relationship if she continues to refuse to act like his wife. Once a husband is in that position, it’s surprisingly frequent how often she suddenly becomes interested in him again. Though as I state often, she may simply not be interested in him after all that effort and he’s better able to move on to a woman that does want him.
Reader: All you have with the men writing in is their word for it (no one to blame for that circumstance) that they did the MAP and it didn’t work. Does this mean the wife was very wrong to still be uninterested in this man? Do not be so quick to judge.
Athol: When both men and women write in, I’m aware that I’m only getting one side of the story. That being said, we try and help the one that is writing in, and answer questions in their best interest. However seeing we’re outside of the relationship, we’re typically not enmeshed in the emotions of the relationship and can typically be more objective about what is going on. I’ve quite frequently told husbands they are wrong about something and in fact need to apologize for whatever they messed up.
I do judge. I’m pretty damn good at it. That’s why people read me and ask for my help.
Reader: A man can work out, add some income and flirt ,etc. but have some core issues as a man and husband still present. Marriage is complex and it is unknown if men following this blog do not succeed because they did not follow the MAP thoroughly or for long enough a time period. Or maybe they have other unaddressed issues as husbands and fathers that cannot be improved with the MAP.
Athol: I agree. MMSL is essentially a coaching experience getting regular guys to be more successful with women,and if men are wandering around messed up from childhood abuse or whatever, I direct them to find counseling. In much the same vein if people ask me about a medical issue or medications I end up directing them to their doctor. I don’t give legal advice either. I certainly shouldn’t be trusted to give plumbing advice.
That being said, Married Game advice is a fairly new field and I’m just going to keep plowing along and doing it. People are clearly being helped.
Reader: Do you see some of the comments from women stating how they tried over and over to get through to their husbands? Were they all just a bunch of cold,nagging females unaware of how great they have it? Really, ALL??
Athol: You’re confusing things here. Both my male AND female readers are more typically coming from the side of the relationship that was doing all the work and carrying the marriage. The female readers did try over and over and over to get through to their lughead husbands… just the same way the male readers tried over and over and over to get through to their coldfish wives. Both male and female readers are here looking for help. Only a tiny percentage of readers comment, so there’s really not a gender war going on.
MMSL is mostly directed at a male reader because women have hundreds of female focused advice sources while men have very few places for advice that are positive in tone about relationships and women. We aren’t excluding women simply because we are focusing on teaching men, women are always welcome to read and ask questions and often come seeking the male perspective.
Also MMSL has covered many Girl Game posts where I teach women the same set of skills for women as I do for the men. It’s helpful to both men and women to see the other side of the coin to understand their own side better. So it’s win-win. To be explicitly blunt, the basic principles of the MAP work pretty damn well for wives dealing with difficult husbands too.
Though in summary… your essential complaint is that MMSL works. So I concede your point.
Jennifer: About 1/3 of Athol’s emails are from women seeking advice/help. Men and women both come here looking to fix what has gone wrong and gain some insight. And yes, it is amazing how many advice sites are out there for women, but for men looking for self-improvement and better marriages…not so much.
If Athol was a woman and was writing Married Woman Sex Life with the same content aimed at women, it would be “empowering” wouldn’t it?