On Playing for Keeps I said:
There’s a double standard because the sexes are very different around the studs vs. sluts issue. In a general sense I advise both the man and the woman to have as limited of a sexual history as possible. I believe that’s been a massive benefit to Jennifer and myself and our happiness. However I also advise very strongly that you need to be assured that you have a good sexual chemistry together before you get married. I can tell you dozens of horror stories of those that have deeply regretted waiting until the wedding to experience sex with their spouse.
In the comments frequent and appreciated commenter Doug1 said:
I think it matters VASTLY more that the prospective wife have a fairly and ideally quite low partner count for lots of reasons. I think it’s actually better for the prospective husband to have a good lot of sexual experience. It’s better for the captain first mate dynamic if he’s teaching her some things sexually, from a starting point of her having lots of hunger and enthusiasm.
To which my reader Technical Virgin emails me both quotes and asks:
I read somewhere that every sexual partner a guy has before he’s married reduces the likelihood of sexual satisfaction in his marriage. Also, you’ve mentioned the insecurity issue of being with someone who’s had a lot of partners. Kind of seems like a big risk for a virgin to take–increased chance of infidelity and serious insecurity in the sack?
What say you Athol? Should virgins hold out (even longer haha) for a guy with a low/no number, or do the virgin and the Mr. Many Experiences have a shot at happiness?
Athol: It’s basically a case of having a low sexual partner count for both the woman and the man, seems to create longer lasting and happier marriages. It is a bigger effect for women, than for men. That being said, these are simply influences on outcomes and not destiny. There’s double-virgin horror stories and slut+stud successes.
The old joke is that you can’t make a ho’ a housewife, and neither do I think you can easily make a player a stayer. I can see how some sexual experience under a man’s belt makes him look good to women in a general sense that he can actually attract women, but after a certain point it all becomes a little bit icky doesn’t it? Once a guy is up in the 20+ range you have to start wondering how rancid some of those holes were.
Also in this day and age, there’s actually zero reason to need prior partner experience to know some sexual skills. This is not 1950 where a teenage boy could only imagine what a girls naked breasts looks like unless he managed to convince one to take her top off. There’s books, DVD’s, toys, websites and enough porn freely available on the Internet to crash the computers on the Starship Enterprise. I mean you thought Genghis Khan saw a lot of pussy…
Half the fun is discovering things together and trying stuff out. Bedsides that, not all women are the same and what works for one doesn’t work for another. It’s the practice together that makes things really click. Prior experience might get you through the first dozen times together more easily, I’m not sure it matters at all after that.
And yes I completely get that “banging everyone” really sounds like fun. I’m not immune to wanting to do that either. Trust me on that account, I write a freaking sex blog, I’m horny as a goat eating three square meals a day of horny goat weed. But at the end of the day, when we’re together, it really is special to me that the only woman I’ve really been with is Jennifer. It’s also special to her that it’s true as well. There’s a mutual cycle of appreciation for being each others only, it helps bond us together and create a sense of what we have is special. So when we talk about having sex every day together, I think all that plays a serious part in our success. When the double virgin strategy works out well, it works out really well, it’s just not newsworthy so it seems a lot less visible than it really is.
If I had sexual experiences with more women, I know I would very much enjoy them in the moment as I’m not shy about body parts or technique. But I’m not convinced that I would be as happy as I am now as a whole if I did that. In any case, Jennifer can get me off amazingly well and it would take months to train someone else to replace her. She gets better and better too, her latest trick is after a lot of foreplay getting me off just by squeezing her vagina on me. I think the correct term for that is ninjutsu.
Plus the insecurity issue isn’t exactly limited to “Am I the best she’s had?”, because any serious prior lovers, or even Beta Orbiters never go away anymore. You’re always one Facebook search away from her old boyfriend private messaging her. You’re a pre-paid phone from Wal-Mart away from her sending naked photos of herself back to him. Old flames can burst into an inferno very quickly. Marriages have their ups and their downs and old lovers emailing her during a down can turn into critical incidents.
The stats I heard on the radio one morning driving to work late last year was that Facebook was now credited as a factor in 30% of divorces.
So yeah you can certainly try it with Mr. Many Experiences, it’s just a influence on outcomes, not destiny. Ultimately the best target for both sexes is someone that clearly has a good sex drive, that can contain it to one other person.
Reader: I think I already outrank her, and she knows it. She has said more than a few times that if we ever got divorced, she has no doubt that I’d have no trouble finding young, cute, interested women to date, and she’s convinced she’d probably never marry again. When I compliment her looks, she says I have low standards. In light of all this, it seems that the typical problem that MMSL addresses (betaized man outranked by wife) may not be my problem at all. We have sex 2-3 times a week, but she doesn’t seem to be into it and she doesn’t ever orgasm with me. It makes me worry that maybe I just have a wife who simply does not like sex.
Athol: If you both know you outrank her and she makes defeatist statements, it means she’s fishing for you to respond with an indication of the direction you plan to go in. Namely do you plan to stay with her or dump her. She does this because she feels outclassed by your Sex Rank, and she doesn’t feel she can catch up with you, so you have all the advantage in the relationship.
Also because she’s a woman, she’s probably making the mistake of assuming that you are thinking like a woman… by which I mean she thinks you are very, very angry at her and 6-12 months ago you decided you wanted out of the relationship and nothing will ever change your mind. You’ve just been rolling out this exit plan ever since, and it’s working and she’s pretty much screwed.
She very likely is emotionally withdrawing from you to soften the blow of you dumping her and because she thinks you’re angry at her. Thus the conflict of giving you sex to keep you, but she can’t actually give herself to you and orgasm et al because you leaving will hurt too much if she lets you in all the way.
I have seen this before several times now. It usually happens when the husband has trumped her Sex Rank and is well into Phase Three of the MAP, but he hasn’t pushed into Phase Four and stated his demands. So she just imagines the worst. Not all forty-year-old women have divorce fantasies, some of them very much see that they’ll be living a very modest lifestyle while their husband basically moves on to a new woman.
So the solution is to actually move into Phase Four and state some clear expectations for the relationship and frame how you want things to be. As long as the frame is reasonable and she can actually do what you’re asking of her, she’ll probably go for it. You may also have to reveal the whole bag of tricks that you’ve been using and MMSL (et al) that has propelled you on your path.
Some basic framing for Phase Four…
(1) I expect you to have a good sexual relationship with me / I expect you to be attractive as you can.
(2) I expect you to hold up your end of the marriage and be productive as a good wife.
(3) Defeatist talk about our relationship is unacceptable. I expect you to support the relationship.
(4) As long as you do (1), (2) and (3) you will never need fear that I will leave you or cheat on you.
(5) I really do have strong feelings for you.
Or put more simply… “I’m the Captain, you’re the First Officer and this is what the First Officer role is. Are you on the ship or off the ship?”
Jennifer: That Phase Four framing seems awfully familiar…
Reader: So I’m a year and a half into the fitness game now, have lost 20 lbs overall body weight and gained 15 or 20 pounds of muscle. Bodyfat is now in single digits with some visible abs. Test level is great (had it measured). Time for the clothing makeover.
Tossed out the stuff that should have gone out a long time ago. I want to go more upscale than jeans and tees but not formal wear everywhere. Trouble is I can’t find any upscale casual wear that fits properly. Pants don’t show off the glutes I did all those damn squats to get, and the thighs are too wide and look loose and have pleats. With shirts, everything that fits my long arms has the billowy white boy waist (you know what I mean I would guess) and it’s cut for the typical American white guy with a 30 pound gut. Worse still, a lot of it isn’t even sold in real measured sizes, it’s just S/M/L/XL and I can’t tell what the hell it’s going to look like on me after a few times through the laundry.
This is a problem. And it’s not like I’m freakishly proportioned. I’m now 170, 16.5 inch neck, 35 sleeve, 33.5 inch waist. Why is it so hard to find anything other than formal wear in the stores that’s cut fitted?
So I naively buy a couple of good casual shirts I like except for the waist, and take them to a good tailor. No dice. In addition to being stitched, the seams are glued, and the tailor says he can’t modify them properly. Apparently it’s more complicated than just that one side seam, he explained why to me but I forget.
I don’t know what to do now. I hear you dress down yourself, but has anyone else been through this before that you know of? Who sells tailored or tailorable clothing in styles other than dress shirts and business/formal stuff? I’ll look at websites, whatever, just don’t point me toward yet another place selling cellophane wrapped dress shirts, I’ve got plenty of sources for those.
Toss this question to the peanut gallery if you so desire. I’m lost in the woods here, appreciate help anywhere I can get it.
Got my first motorcycle a few months ago and got licensed too. It’s been good progress so far but I’m kicking this thing up to the next level. This is a multi-pronged campaign and I’m in it for the long haul.
Athol: This is an area that I struggle in myself.
Peanut gallery, you’re up…
Ponyboy said in an earlier comment: I think the double standard here isn’t that it’s OK for a guy to bang a lot of chicks, but not OK for a woman. To me, it’s that the other day on Athol’s site all these married guys were complaining that their wives don’t have sex enough. They were talking about leaving them, cheating etc… Now we have a girl who obviously likes sex, but she is getting taken out to the wood shed and deemed not marriage material – which is it?
Athol: The quick and dirty answer is to say that both are extremes to be avoided. My viewpoint is that a very low partner count is best, but you should establish you have sexual compatibility before getting married. I’m generally advocating a modified virgin strategy.
The longer answer is that I think we’re confusing two separate issues here. There isn’t a frigid vs slut sliding scale at work where on one end are sexually dead women and on the other sexually exciting women.
The sexually dead women that the husbands were complaining about on earlier posts have a very low Female Alpha Trait level and likely a decent Female Beta Trait level. So they aren’t at all sexual, but they are basically reliable stable women who aren’t going to blow up the relationship at any point.
The lady in her late twenties with 20+ lifetime partners seems to enjoy having sex and doesn’t have any trouble attracting new partners, so she has a high Female Alpha Trait level, but she’s displayed a persistent pattern of relationship failure at on average the six month mark. To be blunt, twenty different men either didn’t meet her standards or weren’t comfortable being in a relationship with her. As such her Female Beta Trait level appears quite low. Marrying her would be creating a serious risk for a quick divorce.
So these are two quite different relationship stresses. If these were men we were talking about they would translate fairly directly into a Nice Guy Beta Orbiter who can’t get laid, and a PUA player that is a constant moving target incapable of a long term relationship. Would anyone recommend to a woman to marry a known player? Would anyone recommend to a woman to marry an insipid chump for anything other than his money? If not, why the double standard that men should pony up for it?
Just like men need to balance their Alpha and Beta Traits, so do women. If a woman is a sexually dead cold fish in the sack, she shouldn’t be shocked if her husband develops a wandering eye for pussy anymore than a Betaized Nice Guy husband should be if his wife hooks up with her old boyfriend on Facebook. If a woman can’t hold up her end of an emotional relationship without it blowing up within six months, she shouldn’t be shocked if her boyfriend dumps her for someone less pretty that can cook and likes kids. At least no more than an eternally absent Alpha professional husband should be shocked if his wife bonds to one of the dads picking up his own kids from her kids’ school.
Marriage is an incredibly serious decision to make. In terms of the way family court plays out right now, it’s more serious for the man than the woman to get married. If you’re a male, your default setting should be that you shouldn’t get married at all. What you need to get married is an exceptional woman who has some of both Alpha and Beta Traits working for her.
There’s NO requirement to marry anyone at all. If anyone tries to guilt trip you into being committed to a woman by marriage, it’s because they have her interests at heart and not yours. Any time you hear the phrase “man up” you should hear “be a chump.”
If you do decide to get married, my most serious advice is that you do your due diligence and evaluate her most practically. You want to know her medical history, you want to know her criminal history, you want to know her credit history, you want to know her family history and you sure as hell want to know her sexual history too. Nothing in particular need be a deal breaker, for no one is perfect, but you need to advance into the most serious relationship of your life with open eyes and full disclosure.
In a general sense I advise both the man and the woman to have as limited of a sexual history as possible. I believe that’s been a massive benefit to Jennifer and myself and our happiness. However I also advise very strongly that you need to be assured that you have a good sexual chemistry together before you get married. I can tell you dozens of horror stories of those that have deeply regretted waiting until the wedding to experience sex with their spouse.
Look, let’s be serious about this. Marriage is hard. Monogamy is hard. And it’s a really long time to be together. If you’re going to walk this road, you want a common sense woman who likes to fuck and is going to stick it out with you. Even then you have to work at it together. The upside is you have a family, you have a legacy and you have a constant friend and companion with a shared history together.
I mean seriously, try and shut your eyes and imagine me without Jennifer. Who the hell would I even be?
Monogamous marriage is a life strategy. I 100% seriously do not give a rats ass whether or not you choose to do it yourself. MMSL is not a moral crusade. There are other strategies you can choose to play, and I wish you well in the playing of them. I’m completely serious on that account, I really don’t care what you do – I have poly friends, I have single friends hunting for hook-ups, I have gay friends, I have married lesbian friends, I have friends on their second marriages and player friends too.
I’m just here to explain how to play the monogamous marriage strategy to your best advantage.
So anyway, just to make my “I don’t give a crap” point, here’s a fabulous drag queen with a great message that married guys can use… I think.
Something caught my eye in the comments on “She’s A Nice Place To Visit (But I Wouldn’t Want To Live Her”
Reader: 2 points i’d like to add to this discussion:
1. I’m a 30 year old woman and my number is 2. The first 11 years with husband 1 (i was also his first) and now with what will become husband 2 (he’s been with a total of 5) and i will say that the potential for insecurities regarding sex is SOOOOO much higher with number 2! With number 1, he never wondered if his dick was big enough or if he lasted long enough..and neither did I. It was just fact. We never fanisized about other people because all our early sexual experiences were with each other so it was always “remember when” in a good way…With number 2, both of us wonder “did he like the girl with the nice ass, better than he likes big tits?” “does she miss a circumcised penis?” etc. That stuff IS there and it totally wasnt with the first. There’s a level of uncertaintly, which i would expect climbs as your number climbs.
2. I’m mostly a monogomist, but I’ve also been poly for a short while. Guess what happend? I left my husband for my boyfriend. My husband figured when we started “this guy is zero risk, she’d never be stupid enough to leave for him” so he was NEVER jealous. Right up to the very end, he thought he had the boyfriend beat in every catigory….but after a year of hearing “i would NEVER share you if you were mine” from my boyfriend as he got his life in order, i began to resent that my husband didn’t feel that way. I felt that i must be worth very little to him if he didn’t care. The divorce completely crushed him as he didn’t really see it coming. I got things from my boyfriend that I ididn’t get from my husband – passion, play/fun, intense emotion (both my first husband and myself are decidedly practical in all maters, but I didn’t know i LIKED passion, until I had a taste of it…)I thought I had a handle on things, but i fell in love before I knew it was happening and began to resent my husband. I didnt mean for any of that to happen, but it’s what happened. I will never invite another person into my relationship again. I just put this out there, not that people who are happy with poly have to stop, but as a little bit of a warning to people who might be toying with swinging out of bordom. Even if it starts off meaningless, it might not end that way…it’s just too much risk….
Athol: Your second husband actively strategized to steal you from your first husband for over a year. He meant for it to happen.
The “If you were my wife I wouldn’t share you” line endlessly repeated is the classic husband poaching move. It’s quite intentionally designed to make it look like your husband doesn’t value you, and your lover does. It works so well because it’s true.
So gentlemen, as I’ve said before, I don’t have a moral qualm about non-monogamy. It’s simply another sexual strategy among many. However, the golden rule of swinging / polyamory / cuckolding / open marriage is that you MUST be the most sexually attractive man in whatever is happening. Otherwise push comes to shove, you risk straight up losing your wife to the other man.
If you’re willing to risk losing your wife to gain a few extra exciting sexual encounters, it’s an awful lot to risk unless you don’t actually value her. Once it all falls apart the emotional devastation on the other end is going to be quite spectacular for you. It’s one thing to have your marriage fall apart and a whole other level of nausea to realize that you actively strategized to ruin everything. Once the divorce goes through, you’ll have basically paid half your net worth to another guy to steal your wife.
You risk everything for some additional hot sex. The other man risks nothing for some additional hot sex. Don’t wonder why your wife starts to think you’re a total idiot.
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post “She’s A Nice Place To Visit (But I Wouldn’t Want To Live Her)”
The male readers here should understand that there’s a difference between a woman who has had a lot of sex partners, and a woman who is unloyal.
Having had a lot of sex partners doesn’t mean she cheated on anyone she was in a relationship with. It’s possible that each partner was devoted a segment of her life that she was dedicated to trying to make it work with them, even if that segment of her life was only a few weeks long. And if the latter is true, look for signs that she’s making progress and effort towards longer and more engaging relationships with men.
If disloyalty is what you’re on the lookout for, evaluate that based on the attention and care she pays to you over time, not on the stripped-down number of men she’s had sex with. As a woman in her late 20s who’s slept with over 20 men and had only 1 one-night-stand in her life, I think it’s important to make this distinction.
Athol: Imagine for a moment that instead of that being your sexual history, that was your employment history, and your potential future husband was in fact a potential employer looking for someone to fill an absolutely critical position on a permanent basis. Should you fail in that position, not only would you lose your job, but the company would probably come close to failing as well.
Would you take at all seriously any applicant for a permanent position that had a resume showing 20+ different employers over the prior decade? Or would you simply see that applicant as far too great of a risk?
Ending the employment metaphor and returning it back to sex… you’ve not displayed any ability whatsoever to get a relationship past the first rush of dopamine / infatuation and into anything more stable. Either you’ve dumped the guy or he’s dumped you within what appears to be an average six month period over twenty times. Why would a man be willing to stake half of everything he has on being the 21st guy, in the hope that you do things completely differently this time around?
There’s far more to loyalty than simply not having sex with other men behind your husbands back. There’s the loyalty of being able to work through the repeated dips in the relationship rather than bailing every time one happens. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior and you appear to have a persistent pattern of relationship failure.
Jennifer and I have a great marriage, but we’ve also had dozens of bad days with each other. We’ve also had a tiny handful of mortifyingly awful days together. But we roll with the punches, work through those days and bounce back happier and stronger. Ask any long term couple if they’ve had really shitty days with each other and they will all say that it happened to them too. Unfortunately for you, you’re effectively telling us that when those shitty days happen to your relationships, the relationship ends.
So again… why should a guy stake half his stuff on you? Why should a guy stake his house on you? Why should a guy stake access to his future children on you? Why should a guy stake a huge chunk of his future happiness on you?
Your fundamental flaw is thinking that what men look for in a short term relationship, is the same thing they look for in a wife. The Hookup Marketplace and the Marriage Marketplace have a few different rules. To be quite frank, as soon as you give it up to a guy without extracting any level of commitment, your Hookup Marketplace value rises, but your Marriage Marketplace level drops.
And not for nothing, once you figure the math out for even a few degrees of separation of sex partners, the total number of the sexual pool you’ve been swimming in is quite sizable if you’ve had 20+ partners. So obviously you’ve been exposed to STDs at some point, and it’s more a question of how perfect your protection against them was at the time. STDs can affect a woman’s fertility quite tragically, so it’s a common sense thing to be concerned about any STD history you have had and whether or not your fertility has been affected as a result. As you can imagine, that would be need to know information before anyone should sign you up as their wife and future mother of their children. Getting you pregnant shouldn’t be as hard as shooting proton torpedos into a two meter wide thermal exhaust port on the Death Star.
And please don’t misunderstand me here, I’m not calling you a slut or immoral or anything similar. I do realize there are different relationship strategies you can choose in order to find happiness and what you do is up to you. There’s a very large advice industry encouraging women to pursue exactly the strategy you have chosen, so I assume they will be able to explain how to carry that strategy through to a happy ending better than I can.
I’m a little frazzled and tired today, so will get to following up on yesterdays post tomorrow.
Anyway, watch this… funny as hell and pretty close to the MMSL mark. NSFW.
Reader: Athol: There are two types of women writing in.
1.) GF who has orgasms and initiates sex prior to marriage, but loses interest in husband over the years. He begins MAP, wins back the happy days.
2.) GF who does not have orgasms and fakes enthusiasm, marries BF, and then continues to fake enthusiasm under self-imposed ultimatum of “I’d better do this or he’ll find a mistress who’s into orgasms.”
Can the MAP even work in situation #2? Or is he just wasting his time with a wife who’s either gay or asexual?
Athol: There’s an old cartoon of a groom bragging to his best man that the best part of getting married is that his fiance gives great blowjobs and he’s going to get blowjobs every day now. On the other panel the bride is telling her maid-of-honor that the best part of being married is that she doesn’t have to give blowjobs anymore. I’d show you the cartoon but the Internet has approximately 149 million images of “cartoon blowjob” and it’s not in the first 17 million I looked through. Also in what I hope is a temporary side effect, I am now having stream of consciousness sexual fantasies of Lois Griffin blowing me. I’m not sure what the precise term for that is… perhaps the word I am looking for is “sick.”
Typically the sexual experience before the wedding sets the high water mark of what her sexual response will be to her husband. As you age together and have sex repeatedly you can certainly gain in skill and knowledge of each other and have much better sex later in the marriage, but in terms of the basic interest in you, before the marriage is as good as it gets.
Or put more plainly… Jennifer is way better at fucking me now than she was twenty years ago, but she’s into me about as much now as she was then.
If the wife was faking orgasms and sexual interest before she got married, she will typically stop the sex after the wedding as quickly as possible. The less interested she is in her husband sexually, the faster the drop in sex will be. The excuses and BS will come thick and fast and she’ll only be interested in sex exactly when she’s ovulating if even then. Unless her husband makes some kind of truly remarkable transformation upward in Sex Rank, she’s not likely to ever become interested in him sexually.
Most of my readers that run the MAP and succeed probably had themselves particularly together before the wedding when they were actively courting (i.e. Gaming unconsciously) their wives and then let it slip / got Betaized after the wedding. So it’s like he was an 8 before the wedding and the sex was great, then he fell to a 6 and the sex stopped, then he finds MMSL and gets himself back to an 8 and the sex comes back.
There’s also a compounding of her disinterest when a man allows a woman who obviously has no sexual interest in him to marry him. It is the very worst display of Beta Orbiting / Chumping and that lowers her interest in him further.
My only advice is to make damn sure she is into you sexually before the wedding, and make it plain that a sudden drop off in sex for no good cause after the wedding won’t be acceptable. I suppose I’ll have to cover how to tell if a woman is faking orgasms tomorrow.
Jennifer: Oh great, now I’m envisioning myself as Lois Griffin blowing you…disturbing…
Reader: I am a new fan of your blog–57 years old, woman, two kids in college, 25 years of marriage in April, not enough sex, but some husband health issues, we shall see! Still hot for a 57 year old–but 57 is not 27 or 37!
Anyway, I have always wondered about the following: why do men love blow jobs so much? I don’t really get it. Does a mouth feel better than a vagina? Is it the (perceived) subservience of the task? (For me, it does not feel subservient in the least–happy to oblige, swallow cum, have teeth and know how to use them) Is it the opportunity to relax and not work so hard?
Athol: The short answer is that a lot of sex is essentially guys doing things to the woman and this is her doing something to him. So she’s being sexually more active with him. Guys experience that as feeling that the woman is into him. That she’s really into the sex.
The longer answer is that there really is only one basic male sexual fantasy…
…. that the woman is into the sex.
If you remember any and all porn you’ve watched, or erotica that you’ve read, or whatever, see if you can see it through the lens of the woman is into the sex.
If it’s vanilla missionary position sex… the woman is into it.
If it’s a male-male-female threesome… the woman is into it.
If it’s two women together… both women are into it.
If it’s 6-10 guys doing a gang bang… the woman is into it.
If it’s a woman bouncing on balloons until they pop… the woman is into it.
If it’s a brutal spanking that makes her cry… afterwards she smiles and lets you know she was into it.
If it’s a pulsing facial… she smiles her way through it because she was into it.
If it’s her being tied up and teased… she’s into it.
If it’s rough anal… she squeals her way through it because she’s into it.
It’s it’s dressing up in mascot costumes and simulating sex together… she’s into it.
If it’s she dressing up in a Princess Leia costume and being held down and taken by someone dressed as Boba Fett while her real life husband is dressed as Han Solo and strapped into a chair with duct tape… she’s into it.
I’m quite serious that there’s really only one male fantasy… that the woman is into it.
So when you have your head bobbing up and down on your husbands cock and going “hmmmmmmmmm” as you do it, he thinks you’re into it. And that’s his fantasy. His fantasy is you.
Jennifer: If something turns you on, your husband will usually find a way to like it too!
Reader: Hi Athol, First of all, thank you for your site and your book. I picked it up last year and it’s opened my eyes to some things and reinforced other things that I was already doing right. My wife and I are now up to 3-4 times a week up from a low of a couple times a month a couple years ago and zero times over the course of a year during a high risk pregnancy and severe post partum depression. It took a while, but we’re getting there.
So here’s a question maybe you can give me an opinion on. Sometimes in the morning my wife will notice my erection and offer me a quickie. I’m not usually for morning sex, but I’m not going to turn it down either. So here’s the thing, she’ll grab the lube and bend over and tell me not to worry about her and just go fast and hard because she’s really not in the mood. So I do and it feels great. After I’m done, I’ll leave, and get ready for work. But a couple times I’ve come back to the bedroom and caught her with her vibrator finishing herself off under the covers. So here’s the question, was she really not in the mood and the fast and hard just got her horny? Or was she horny and didn’t really feel like a big production and just wanted me to slam her? If she wanted an orgasm, I’d be happy to try and last a bit longer for her to catch up or help her out after I was done. I can’t imagine having sex with her, bringing her to an orgasm then leaving and jerking off in the bathroom to finish myself off. Doesn’t make sense to me.
Do I just need to remind myself that I’m having regular sex, she’s offering it, and I’m not responsible for her orgasms and leave it at that? Most of the times we do finish together, but sometimes she does things that make me scratch my head. After going through long periods of sexual rejection, I tend to over analyze things that are sometimes nothing at all. All I know is I’m not going back to how it was.
Athol: Sounds like you’re over thinking it a little.
I suspect she starts off not feeling all that horny, but by the time you are done with her, she’s gotten horny and some of the way to an orgasm. So she decides to finish the orgasm off herself.
This is just fine as she’s taking responsibility for her orgasms, and you don’t have to worry about whether or not she’s faking interest in you or is just tolerating the sex. She’s putting the moves on you so she’s obviously interested. It may just take her longer to get to orgasm than is convenient to get done during the morning routine.
What you should do when you catch her getting herself off like this, is get involved with it. Kiss her deeply, pull her hair, tweak her nipples, slide the covers off her and tell her you want to watch. Put your cock in her mouth. Whatever works to make it hotter for her.
Also check into where she is in her cycle when she just happens to offer a morning quickie. Maybe she’s ovulating and is in her horny time of the month.
Jennifer: Not making a big deal of it and not trying to take it over is good.