Changing Direction Doesn’t Mean You’ve Arrived At Your Destination

Reader:  First let me preface by saying I bought your book, have read it twice, and have since felt a sort of liberation from the tyranny of going against basic instincts.  Congratulations on your success!

I’m hoping you might be able to help me toward my success, as well!  I have been married nearly two years (together for 5) to a wonderful woman.  She’s beautiful, smart, and generally quite nice to be around; however, our marriage in general is not quite where we both want it to be.

We went into a sort of crisis mode where she developed a crush on a guy at work (quite a bit older than she) and started to doubt her feelings for me.  I recognized it as a phase, at first, and then recognized it as a problem with me, in particular (despite her insistence to the contrary).  I found your blog, read your book, and initiated as much of the MAP as I could (going on 3-4 weeks now).  I was skinny and not overweight, but I pushed to become a more strapping version of myself.  By the way, if you don’t have space or cash, sandbags rock.

I also went through a phase where I would come home and do all the housework before she would get home from work every day, with very little response.  I see the lack of response and her so-called “phase” as me being too beta.  Once I took a more proactive approach to our marriage (changing style of dress, offering to go out instead of being asked, etc), we stabilized and started making efforts to ENJOY our time together, sexy or not.  She no longer has a crush on this older gentleman and no longer feels suffocated by our relationship.

In the meantime, I’m feeling ignored, like I put a lot of effort toward this and saw relatively little response.  For example, since I started working out I have been on some decent muscle.  I’m skinny but don’t appear to be a hard-gainer there.  She seems to notice some, but it’s not led to her melting in my hands so far as I can tell.  Game in general also seems to have no effect on her, since things like texting naughty messages like “I just realized the bottom of my tongue is much smoother than the top [thanks], and I’m going to try that on you later.”  It gets a “rofl” reply, which I read as a good sign, so I would just kind of act cocky.

When we get home?  Nothing.  If I try to initiate, she’s usually too tired, which I could buy as either an excuse for no sex or as a genuine concern.  She’s overweight and does not exercise much except at her job which is rather physically-demanding.  She does not seem to respond to game.  In fact, she is in general a rather dominant personality.  How do you suggest one goes about teasing out her inner submissive girl?  I know she enjoys sex, enjoys orgasms, and enjoys us.  I just wish I knew how to engender more attraction.

I think I also have a touch of lingering oneitis.  She gets backrubs and dinners and homemade popcorn while I get to sit there tortured with a hardon.  She’ll ask what I want to do, and I might say “I want to have sex.”  She responds with a groan unless it was already what she wanted.  We are quite touchy-feely with the hugs and short kisses (she shies away from ten-second kisses since saliva to her is somewhat repulsive) and the sitting together and holding, which makes me wonder if I am giving too much of myself for not enough toward my needs.  Do you think it would be a good strategy to withdraw somewhat from those things for a little while in order to tone down the beta somewhat?

I guess in the end she just seems like a slightly different girl than those described in the primer.  I can never quite put my finger on it how that is so, either.  Thanks for reading the ramble!  I hope to hear back from you soon!

Athol: Hiya, if she started fixating on another guy, there’s a pretty good chance her Sex Rank is higher than yours and the other guy is certainly higher than yours. You did a good thing by addressing her attraction quickly though. Many guys in the same situation go limp and just watch the relationship intensify rather than slap it down. Good job.

So anyway, if her Sex Rank is higher than yours, you’re still in Phase One of the MAP, maybe heading into Phase Two. As a rough guide, increasing your Sex Rank if you’re a male takes about a year per point. So right now it’s kind of like you just planted an acorn and a month later are wondering where the big oak tree is.

The good news is you’ve seen positive results. She lost interest in the other guy and is getting on better with you. So things are improving and you are on track for a full turn around. It’s just a slow process is all.

Some fine-tuning…

Oneitis – you still have this because she’s hotter than you. It tends to fade away in Phase Three as other women start presenting themselves to you more frequently.

Asking For Sex – Don’t just ask for sex, say you want to do a particular sex act. “Do you want to have sex?” or “I want sex.” is weaker than, “I want to lick your pussy and fuck you doggystyle.”

Backrubs“Sure, just go in the bedroom, take all your clothes off and lay face down. I’ll be in in a minute to give you a backrub.” [grin]  Don’t give her one unless she complies lol.

She’s Overweight – She’s very likely to suddenly want to address that once you hit Phase Three. You won’t likely need to say anything about it.

Touchy-Feely – Don’t initiate more than than half of these little cuddle moments. She’ll come to you eventually.

 Muscles – this is just a time and effort thing. Keep at it. It’s not where you are in a month that matters, it’s where you are in a year that does.

Keep it up! You’re on the right path.

If you’re new, the intro to the MAP is here.

 

 

Comments

  1. If she’s still working with that guy, things are going to be a lot slower, too. She’ll recognize that you’re trying to win her back; unfortunately, the idea of two guys chasing her at once will make her tingle more than just one. I’d be very surprised if the guy at work and your wife have totally backed off.

    From what you’ve said in the quoted email it appears that you are still being a responder. You’re doing all this to please her. She can probably tell, if only subconsciously. You have to have more of a luring-in attitude, rather than chasing all the time. She needs to see that you want her, but don’t need her to be complete in yourself. Gotta be more confident and in control.

  2. By all means, up the Alpha, stat!

    Despite picking up your Beta skills — which never sucks — you have to work on your Alpha presentation as well. Just being “more hot” and “available” isn’t going to get your cookies baked. Remember, female sexuality is one of responsive desire. If you aren’t leading forcefully enough to get her attention, then you aren’t pumping enough Alpha in her direction. Double down. Intensify your workouts, be unavailable more often, and pull her kicking and screaming outside of her comfort zone. As long as she feels utterly secure in the relationship then she has no incentive to change. Stop rewarding her when she doesn’t do what you want. And by all means, start getting attention from other women, any other women. Preselection is almost magical.

  3. Have Patience. This type of change takes time. This is true for exercise/muscles as well as changing yourself and improving your relationship.

    Keep at it. But kick that oneitis. It will make a huge difference for you. Huge,

  4. I agree with Ian on this one.

    Keep up what you have been doing, and be patient, but your Alpha-Beta balance is probably a little out of whack. I would drop the Beta and up the Alpha. And remember at it’s basic level, it needs to be about your frame. If she still denies you sex, act aloof about it, don’t whine, don’t sulk, just continue with your day.

    More specifically, do what Athol said about the back rubs, I would back off on the touchy feely stuff and start focusing more on doing things on your own. You don’t have to be a complete ass, but telling her you are going out to do X,Y,Z and you will see her later may do wonders to show her you have a life outside of her.

    And like Ian said, preselection will help you too. You don’t have to actually have girls flocking to you, but it doesn’t hurt to have that perception. Mention girls at work, girls at the gym whatever….

    Seems like you have done a great job so far.

  5. lurking girl says:

    “Do you want to have sex?” or “I want sex.” is weaker than, “I want to lick your pussy and fuck you doggystyle.”

    I agree with that. The whole “the top of my tongue versus the bottom of my tongue” thing came off very analytical….

  6. She’s “beautiful, smart and nice,” but then later you say she’s “overweight.” What?

    I get the sense that your internal frame is weak. You should work on inner game. Know your value, and know that it is higher than hers. Don’t let her walk all over you. Don’t be submissive to her.

    There’s a dominance vacuum in your household, so she started filling it, which makes her unhappy, and then she started looking for it elsewhere. She’s not sexually attracted to you because you don’t have the strong masculine and dominant frame that women respond to in general.

    You say that she has a “dominant” personality — that’s the key right there. She wouldn’t if your personality was more dominant than hers. She’s only being dominant because you’re not. You can change this aspect of yourself, and change the dynamics of your relationship. But you have to stop conceding to her dominance, push back on her tests, and stand firm on you being the captain, rather than just a ship deck hand.

  7. Hope – you can be beautiful, smart, nice, AND overweight. Being overweight doesn’t automatically make you a mean, stupid, gargoyle. It simply means you eat a little more than you burn. Off the top of my head I can name half a dozen women that i consider to be beautiful, smart, nice AND overweight. Just as I can name half a dozen guys who are handsome, smart, nice and really skinny and although really skinny wouldn’t be in my IDEAL package, they are absolutely sexually attractive.

    Reader – you mention that she works a very physical job and often denys you with a groan or an I’m tired. If you’re doing everythng right, I’d actually entertain the idea that she IS tired! I’ve worked some physical jobs in my day and doing 8 hours of labor (even just 8 hours standing!) is EXHAUSTING and I’m a marathon runner! I can definately see how someone who’s got a few extra lbs to lose really IS tired when she gets home! So I actually have a suggestion for you – what about having sex in the morning? Now hear me out! She’s probably not gonna go for this initially, cause it’s hard to wake up in the morning if you’re chronically tired, but some of the hands down best sex I’ve ever had was when my husband and I worked out together in the morning. This has multiple benifits – she’s watching you work out, very hot (we had a home gym and lifted together or sometimes biked, or did yoga together – all hot to watch, but my faves wer the mornings we made coffee and went for a walk outside while we enjoyed waking up slow), she’ll probably start looking better (and a SWEAR to you, working out makes you WANT sex – you feel good and you feel good about your BODY); and when she gets her work out in before work she’ll have more energy at work. You can bridge that to sex easily buy giving her a post workout rub down, catching her in front of the bathroom mirror or jumping in the shower with her. Post workout she should be wide awake, but not exhausted. Now of course she’d have to be on bord with this plan….and you guys have to GET IN BED EARLY!!

    Another work around on the tired thing – how bout sex at lunch time? My husband sometimes shows up at work with a text that says “cum outside, I brought you a sack lunch” and when i get outside, he’s got a bag lunch sitting on top of his errection and says – it really is kinda silly, but it’s fun and efficient…but it also depends where you work and how long you get for lunch….

  8. Jane, it’s not so much that you can’t be those things while overweight, more the way that it was presented. I didn’t even see the overweight part until Athol pointed it out, because of the initial picture that was painted.

    I didn’t mean to be harsh, just seems to me that he is idealizing her in a way that is not necessarily congruent with reality. It’s one thing if she’s also idealizing him in return, and things are good, but that does not appear to be case. That’s why I think he needs an inner frame change, because his actions are still from the “supplicating and submissive” frame.

  9. Reader: You sound a lot like me a year ago. Just be patient,be consistent in your work and frame and you’ll continue to make progress. Sometimes we need to be reminded that we are doing it for ourselves and not our partner. Even if you don’t get validated for the work you are putting in don’t say anything or you’ll come off as either A) you’re doing it for her or B) needy. She’ll notice, trust me, and like Athol says, she’ll be forced to up her game with you as well. I’d also recommend withdrawing more, being quieter or more brooding, be less available and have activities outside the home. When I made some changes my wife thought I was cheating on her (response: agree and amplify “Of course, I have a harem waiting for me at my beck and call wherever I roam”) And remember to tease her like a sister.

    To reiterate: be consistent, be patient, hold frame, make progress for yourself.

  10. The Outsider says:

    Doncha love when girls say they know plenty of women whom they consider attractive and fat at the same time? It doesn’t matter what girls think! Fact is, guys don’t like fat chicks. It may not be fatal, especially if her sex rank is higher than his anyway, but it’s sure a major strike. I once knew a pastor, who naturally did lots of marriage counseling. Whenever a man came to him with concerns about his marriage, the first question he’d ask was, “How much does your wife weight?”

    And here is how you lose weight: http://www.arthurdevany.com/

    Mark said she’ll notice you’re trying to win her back. It should be pointed out that’s exactly the wrong attitude. You’re not trying to win her back. You’re trying to be worth wanting, whether by her or by somebody else. That’s why being somewhat unavailable, not being a pussy, and fostering a certain low-level attraction with other women are part of the drill. If you’re worth wanting, she is very, very likely to want you – which is what you want. But if you approach it with the idea that you are trying to live up to her standards you’ll fail for sure.

    The writer is fortunate to have implemented the plan now while it still matters rather than later when it might not. Keep it up! It works.

  11. wanted to add one more little thing – “saliva is somewhat repulsive to her” was she always that way? Has she been with other guys and felt that way? Saliva is totally gross when it’s someone elses, but your husband’s saliva shouldn’t really be gross (I’m assuming you brush your teeth regularly and dont have any health issues making this unussually yucky??).

    Not to freak you out or anything, but this caught my eye because, wiht my first husband i never liked open mouth kissing. At the time, i just thought I didn’t like it, he tasted a little “off” to me, but nothing i could pinpoint and he did have good hygene…Now that I’m with husband #2, i realize, it really was just my first husband….i really do love making out with husband #2 and i think that comes strait from sexual attraction. And maybe that’s the genetic aspect of being able to ID your good genetic matches or maybe it was the missing Alpha, but for whatever reason, it was ALWAYS like that for me and it got more extream from “distaste” to actual “repulsion” when the marriage deteriorated (we were together for 11 years) , so i’m just wondeirng if she’s always felt that way or if it’s new, and if it was the case with other guys?

  12. Jane,

    It’s a new phenomenon, though she has rewritten history to say she was always turned off by it. I don’t think that was actually the case (hamser gone awry!)

    Thanks for the comments, everyone. I appreciate the support! The MAP is a bit harder to figure out than at first glance. Every alpha-type move seems so asshole-ish. How do we nice guys combat it?

  13. As a rule you should never marry a woman with an aversion to any of your intimate fluids. That’s really a point Athol missed in the “Wife Shopping” guide…

    I’m kidding, … A little…

  14. “Mark said she’ll notice you’re trying to win her back. It should be pointed out that’s exactly the wrong attitude. You’re not trying to win her back. You’re trying to be worth wanting . . . But if you approach it with the idea that you are trying to live up to her standards you’ll fail for sure.”

    Yeah, that’s what I was trying to get at. I was tired though and didn’t express it as clearly. Thanks for saying what I was thinking. :)

  15. Every alpha-type move seems so asshole-ish. How do we nice guys combat it?

    It’s all in the way you frame it. You have to come across as cocky, confident, and playful. If any of those three is lacking, you’ll sound like an asshole.

    When I started the MAP, I was really worried about coming across as an asshole. But I just took a deep breath and went for it, and my wife loves it! But start with the moves that you know you can do without being a jerk, like the 10-second kiss.

    I know, she doesn’t like saliva… there’s nothing that says a 10-second kiss has to involve tongue.

    The kiss was the first “sexy move” I tried on my wife. I did it without tongue, at first. We had gotten to the point where she kissed me the way you’d kiss your sister, just a quick peck. So one evening when she came home from work I took her in my arms and kissed her. No tongue, but I put my hand behind her head to keep her from pulling away and I held the kiss for a full ten seconds. She stiffened up when she realized that this was no quick peck, but about five seconds into it she just melted in my arms.

    I made it a point to do that at least once every day. About day three she escalated things by opening her mouth. Since then, it’s been “game on!”

  16. Highlander says:

    I f you want the quickest gains start doing pullups, dips and kettle bell swings. I’ve worked out for years and have never seen quicker results. Also pick up a copy of the “four hour body”, ton’s of stuff in there to get you buff very quickly. I used the book and am at 10% body fat, 180lbs with abs,…. And I’m 57 years old. I started too late, my wife went MLC and was beyond reaching anyway, but the Map does get you to a better place. I’ve had women in the heir late 20’s even hitting on me after 8 months in the Gym, so don’t despair if it does not work with your wife.

  17. Random Angeleno says:

    Rob has a cogent point about bodily fluids. Also my ex never liked my breath. My dental hygiene is pretty good and no other girl has ever complained to me about that so Jane definitely has a point there.

  18. RE: breath and bodily fluids (namely saliva)
    Your oral hygiene can’t be ‘pretty good’, it has to be impeccable! The best thing I ever did for my breath (and the subsequent scrunch face when moving in for a kiss) was to start flossing every day. Brush and anti-germ wash in the morning and brush, floss, and anti-germ wash at night. Do this every day and after a week you’ll be amazed how much better your morning breath is as well as your all-day breath. (After a couple of weeks you’ll be pretty fast at it too.)

    It even did wonders for my coffee breath!

    The only thing that still really kills me is a meal with heavy garlic as no amount of cover-ups will deal with that one. It seems to ooze out of my pores!

    Also, remember women have a better sense of smell than men and what may seem passable to you could be downright pungent to her.

  19. K_C, the garlic really DOES ooze out of your pores. It gets into your blood stream, and when you exhale, it’s coming from your lungs, not your mouth. Nothing will get rid of that, except for time. Just don’t eat garlic unless your wife is eating it, too!

  20. Agreed with all the commenters who recommend cutting back on the physical affection and favors for her until she reciprocates. What you do for her should be roughly correlative with what she does for you.

  21. “You have to come across as cocky, confident, and playful.”

    I’m trying to find my balance here. Some days I nail it but sometimes I might have a little too much confidence and not enough playfulness. I’ve kicked up the looks with some dental work (she mentioned it looks nice), plenty of exercise and good diet (she mentioned I’m getting a 6-pack) and upped the wardrobe pulling out all the clothes that used to fit and finding out they fit again.

    She is now trying to up her game in the looks department. She feels fat (she’s) and is starting to exercise more and more – even asked me last night if I wanted to wake up early and do yoga. We did but she seems depressed. I’m not saying anything though – just going about my business.

    We have a 7 year old who is a huge handful and this is making her feel very overwhelmed. I help every chance I get (I LIKE hanging out with the kid) but I can’t be there all day. This causes some resentment on her part. She’s in the no-more-babies mindset so you can imagine what that does to our sex life!

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