Undesired Outcomes Happen When You Are Undesired

Susan Walsh apparently loved “Are Women Like Exotic Pets” and I have a reader complaint in the comments to a particular line I wrote…

“…I’ve told her quite firmly that she will do X Y and Z to attract me or she will face undesired outcomes.”

Reader: That sounds horrible.

Translation: You’re an asshole!

Athol:  Ahhh… yeah… guilty as charged.

Look I do get other women interested in me you know. If Jennifer consistently failed to attract me, there would eventually be undesired outcomes for her. I’ve been explicitly clear about what does and doesn’t attract me and it’s absolutely not a mystery to her what works to pull my attention. I’m so conscious of what attracts me and sexually pleases me I gave her a one page cheat sheet to use lol. Plus it’s not all that hard to do, she can pretty much make me respond to her like she’s an Orion Slave Girl if she wants to.

Anyway… this is no different than for my male readers who come here because they are faced with the undesired outcomes of wives that have no interest in having sex with them, are about to divorce them, or are in affairs. If you fail to attract your partner, you will always experience undesired outcomes.

If you’re undesired by your partner, you’re going to have some undesired outcomes whether you want it or not. That’s what undesired means.

As an aside, I tell her “firmly” because she responds positively to my dominance over her. I’m not yelling, just communicating like an Alpha when I’m explaining my sexual needs. I tried gently luring out her sexual desires for the first decade or our marriage and found it vastly more effective to simply give her firm direction over what to do because she’s so submissive. She likes it, so I do it.

Jennifer: I have my own X Y and Z that Athol needs to do to attract me, or he’ll have undesired outcomes too.  (For example, be a good and attentive father, be productive with whatever work he’s doing, take care of himself physically, communicate with me, don’t have an affair, etc.)  And when he says he’s told me “firmly”…I’d say it’s more “clearly”…I appreciate not having to guess what he wants and what he’s thinking.  No matter how long we’ve been married I can’t read his mind.  (Oh and by the way, the Orion Slave Girls were actually the ones in charge.)


  1. Athol – I remember you wrote some very good articles on different personalities etc. You also highlight some important areas where a lot of people could improve and I refer people to your site. However, I do recognise some people could take things too literally and out of context. so I tell them to think before they adopt a change.

    People do have different ways of communicating and different personalities. I tend to have a very positive focus, so I would rather think of the benefits than the negative outcomes. I’d not be comfortable with Awesome being kind to me because he is afraid I will leave him, Also, I think he is more likely to be motivated by the positive – namely our positive interactions – rather than fear.

    The one-pager on personal preferences sounds like a good idea for people starting a relationship or renegotiating an old one. However, I’d treat it as a good start! Surely a couple grows and changes together?

    :-) C

  2. Jennifer and I have grown and changed over the course of our marriage a great deal. I tend to over think things a great deal and my “please do this” list about three years ago was ten pages long… mostly from description rather than requests. Then I got it to four pages. On Friday I got it to a one page cheat sheet. Last night was my most enjoyable sexual experience ever. Not sure if we’ve changed too much since Friday… :-)

  3. For the record, I think that you and Jennifer making those requests honestly is called good communication. I can think of one time in particular when my husband made it clear I’d better get my act together re frequency of sex. I did so, and I can only imagine our marriage would have suffered if he had failed to express that. Also, as Jennifer said, I have my own set of demands – he has always known that infidelity would come at a very high price. I would encourage all couples to establish these ground rules, and revise as necessary!

  4. I kind of got that, actually. It’s just that the way you phrased it make my hackes rise.

  5. The ripping sound you are hearing is the fissioning of Game into distinct PUA Game and Courtship-Marriage Game camps.

    Which will have interesting implications. :-)

  6. horseman says:

    there have always been two camps. PUA is largely manipulation to achieve short term gains not in either parties best interests. its about risk reward. period. and an unworth use of these concepts. marriage game and I hate the word game here is about getting bother partners to not take each other for granted and wake them up to be the best they can be. in modern marriage with most basic needs met by society we should be in a utopia of carinf forbeach other. unfortunatey so few of us are awoken that the poster from exotic pets is right. it is often about endless manipulation to make living with a blue pill addict bearable. but there is always hope. otherwise we would do like a PUA and scram.

  7. Ben Kaplan says:

    Athol, can you give one example of where you’ve firmly, alpha, told Jennifer something explicit that you want? Are you saying something like, “I need you to lick my X, and do it hard?” Sorry for being explicit but I have a hard time being that specific because I feel like I’ve told her so many times what I like that if she really cared she’d do it. Of course it’s not working

  8. @Mike:/@horseman

    I embrace the term Game, because it is the most useful term-of-art to describe the process. And while there has always been a difference, I think the two are essentially two iterations of the same theme. Both are equally valuable, part of a greater masculine “relationship ecosystem” that, when it works together properly, can allow both those running Single Game and those running Married Game to prosper.

    For example: a married dude can often make an invaluable wingman for a single dude, and if they both understand Game then the single dude can profit handsomely. And a single dude can often lend assistance in terms of masculine companionship and cheap labor for the married dude. In this day and age, I have PLENTY of single guys who are in my orbit, and there is definitely a surplus of single women in Mrs. Ironwood’s orbit, so we function as a kind of social center-of-gravity for many of our friends. And when I needed to move, I had over a dozen single dudes on my list I could call in favors on. It’s a lovely symbiotic relationship.

    But as I educate them about Game and they start learning its power, it’s amazing how quickly they abandon the P&D when they realize that the control over their mate selection is firmly in their hands. Once they figure out that their options are not limited to just the last girlfriend who wouldn’t dump you, they start seeing the advantageous of a LTR. And that is when Married Game comes in. Two sides of the same coin, a Basic Level and an Advanced. And there is nothing unworthy in the Basic Level. From what I understand, most young men see the short term gains involved in getting laid a lot entirely in their interest, and I can’t really find a compelling reason to argue.

    Remember, it’s more about just consciousness and communication. It’s “female management”, which first requires a lot of dedicated self-management to work. It’s understanding the non-verbal communication for what it is, and appreciating the intricacies of the female mind even as you navigate it.

  9. I wanted to echo what Susan said – it is called good communication.

    Everyone chooses to communicate differently; words, actions, in Athol’s case he chose to communicate in writing.

    I think letting your partner know what your needs are is kind of step one of a good long term relationship.

  10. It is what it is. I try to eliminate as much political correctness from my relationship as possible, because to me, it has no place. Besides, PC is about as unsexy as it gets. How can we get what we want out of life if we’re not honest about what we want? By making vows, we chose to be only with each other, so I want to put my best foot forward and expect my wife to do the same.

  11. “…I’ve told her quite firmly that she will do X Y and Z to attract me or she will face undesired outcomes.”

    Would this work with my husband? Is this something I should maybe say? is XY and Z sexual things? Suppose you needed her to do something/be some way that wasn’t sexual but happened outside the bedroom and directly affected your sexual attraction? Do women normally get angry if told this? How would you take it if Jennifer said it?

    Seeing a penis, even a hard one, doesn’t really get me going. It’s the other interaction, conversation, verbal play, that mostly does it. A lot of sex is in the mind, at least for me. It seems to work the opposite with my husband. Show a little t & a and he’s distracted for sure.

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