Athol: Via email I’ve somewhat frequently been asked to write ”MMSL for Christians.” On one hand I dread the backlash for simply daring to write for Christians while wearing my Team Atheist attire (it’s suspicously like a Next Generation Star Trek Science Officer uniform). On the other hand I also know that a good percentage of my readership are Christian and experience the awkward tension of finding that MMSL “works”, but finding it morally diffcult at times as well.
My primary goal is to help everyone have a better sex life and happier marriages. If via MMSL people happen to get over the image of Atheists as enraged souless baby eaters that’s great. I’ve yet to receieve a single email saying someone deconverted because of my writings. No biggie. It’s not the goal.
Below is an email part of a back and forth with a Christian reader. He asks a lot of good questions. I have some answers to all this myself, but it’s a lot of work to frame them correctly without accidently saying something that triggers violence in the comments. Just please accept that I am taking this seriously. My own answers may not be immediate.
Anyway…. have a crack at some answers in the comments.
Reader: I am mainly concerned about how core Christian values and beliefs match up with married game and where they don’t. My real question is “What are the mismatches?” and “What do your Christian readers that are taking the red pill think about the mismatches?”
For you, the mismatches are probably not a problem, of course, because you don’t subscribe to Christian beliefs (I respect that). But I think some of your reader’s might have some problems with some things. I do. And it bothers me. I don’t want to go against my faith, but I do want a emotionally and sexually fulfilling marriage (and I wasn’t able to do it without game). So there I am. I have no choice but to ask these tough questions for myself.
Like we both have said, there is much that matches up, but here I want to list some of the mismatches that I would like to get input on.
(1) Attracting other Women
I can’t deny that it works to attract my wife, but the concept seems to go against the grain. I think most any Christian has certainly been taught against this. And even Jesus said “any man who looks at another women… is toast” paraphrased of course.
For me, I have to tone this down. I just talk friendly with other women whether they are old ladies, homely women, or hotties. If they show interest in me then they do, its not that I’m really after anything (or am I? I am doing it to attract my wife, so I have a motive) But the pre-selection really only happens when your wife sees somebody who is a potential threat to her show clear interest that is not just friendly. And this, by Christian standards would be inappropriate, since I am essentially soliciting the attention, even though I have no plans to act on anything. It would basically be characterized as flirting with temptation rather than just avoiding the temptation.
(2) Alpha attitude (at least parts of it)
Cocky, willingness to break the rules, being overtly sexual, indifference to female emotion. Or how about a personal favorite that my wife and I like to laugh about and you have blogged about “women love assholes”.
I think these pretty much speak for themselves as to why they go against Christian beliefs. Of course a lot of Alpha traits match up well, confidence, leadership, not being swayed easily off course match up great.
The persona of Alpha is basically bad boy on the outside, but deep down probably a good guy or at least the potential to be a good guy. The female sex drive wants to have an alpha to try and tame, but if she does tame him (hello Christian marriage in many respects), then the attractions takes a nose dive.
(3) Indifference to emotion
This is one I’d like to hit on specifically. I don’t know that you have specifically discussed “indifference” in one of your posts, but it has come up in many reader comments to your posts. This one is important to me, because this is one of the biggest things that improved my marriage. But at the same time, like some of your readers, this is frustrating too. I don’t really want to be indifferent to my wife, but she finds it very attractive. The more indifferent I am to her, the more she is all over me the way I want her to be. Women are attracted to indifference from men and I understand why, its part of the mystery, its the wondering whether or not he’s into me that gets them going. This creates the chase. Indifference also appears as confidence, because when you really don’t care what somebody else thinks, well that is pretty much confidence (or at least the appearance of it). Indifference to her emotions also sets her free to experience all her emotions without worrying about yours (this is a good thing).
The problem is indifference can’t really be “gamed” in or faked. It has to be real or she’ll she right through it. But as I begin to feel indifferent to my wife’s emotions and I see her attraction go up, its kind of worrisome that I actually feel indifferent where as I didn’t before. To quote one of your reader posts “I can’t love her as much as I want to because she will only take it from me if I won’t give it to her”. So, even with the Christian matchup question aside, this topic would make a great post.
But, the Christian matchup issue here is that indifference is pretty much the opposite of love. Hard to match that up. Isn’t it?
(4) Willingness to walk away
This is at the heart of the red pill. There really is no such thing as unconditional love in a marriage. This goes right against Christian wedding vows, for better or worse, til death do us part, yada yada.
This is a tough nut for most people in a long term Marriage. You can’t be willing to walk away?? But, we all know, if we’ve experienced the red pill that you won’t get what you want out of the marriage unless your willing to walk if you don’t get it.
“Nice Guy” put your needs first. Insist that your needs be met. Christianity would say always to put the other’s needs above your own. Yet, we all know how attracted women are to nice guys who do this religiously to their wife, “hopelessly devoted” is major turn off. But this so hard for a “nice guy” with Christian values to accept. Personally, I am way past this, but I still wish for the blue pill here “why can’t my wife be insanely attracted to me because I am “hopelessly devoted” to her? Based on the Christian values I learned growing up it should be this way.
(5) Hot Kinky Sex
This one I don’t really have a problem with but thought I would throw it in. It does present some Christian match up questions and we all know that many Christian women have hang ups about sex based on Christian teachings while growing up (my wife did for years).
The question here is what is acceptable and what isn’t. Christianity doesn’t seem to allow for anything goes in the bedroom. Lots of religions have made statements against anal, oral, etc etc. We all know that both parties in the marriage need to be comfortable with whatever is going on, but is there any basis in Christian teaching for limiting sexual behaviors in a marriage to rule out certain things? (I’m not talking about hardcore porn stuff here either, just the stuff it actually takes to get your wife sexually satisfied. If this could be done with just the missionary position and only p & v, well then that would be fine I suppose and we wouldn’t have this question).
Ok, that just a shotgun of items and I’m just throwing these things out from the hip, but these are all things I have given serious thought to as I have taken the red pill. I know that you are trying to help people have better marriages and you have helped mine. So, even though you are not a Christian, I think it would be worth hitting some of these issues for those that are. I’m assuming that you have other Christian readers taking the red pill with similar questions on their mind. Of course, maybe I’m your only Christian reader . In that case, well too bad for me. But I think you probably have a lot?
Let me know what you think.
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