When You Can’t Think Of Ways She Can Sexually Please You

This reader is single, but it’s a great question.

Reader:  I’ve had a hot streak lately and enjoyed the sexual acquaintance of a girl or two. Swell, but an issue I’m running into is a woman asking in flagrante, “what do you like?”

On occasion I’ll thunder “grab my ass” or simply move her into a new position. Sometimes I answer in baritone, “I like making you horny.”

But overall I don’t really have a good “oh GOD please do that” list in my head. I’m a meat and asparagus kind of guy, I like heavy P-in-V sex, the prone cowgirl position and making a woman orgasm. Much of my sexual diversity is in the foreplay/runup: massaging, hair pulling, licking/biting, tying her to the bed. I know plenty of things to do to her, but I’m a bit thin on what I can have done to me. I took pretty well to a dominant sexual oeuvre once I learned about it, so I’m wondering if I just need a shot of ideas – where can I find some?

On a related note, I came to realize a little while back that this sort of exchange is the exact same paradigm as the “what do you want for dinner” issue that drives women out of their minds. This is a woman asking me to be in charge, in fact submitting to me in wanting to please me. If I flake on the opportunity I’m depriving them of what they want to do, which is whatever I want to do (within reason, obviously).

Athol:  Hiya, you have the dynamic that’s happening completely right. They are asking for a way to please you and it probably doesn’t matter what you ask them to do for you, just as long as you ask them to do something. So you may as well ask them to do something you like.

There’s probably a ton of books out there about “How To Make Love To Your Man So His Toes Curl Up And He Ejaculates Three Yards.”  Maybe some of them have ideas for you.

Also if you’re normal P-in-V type, you might like being edged. Have her do stuff to you to get you very near orgasm several times during the session. The easy way to do that is to switch off between getting her off and edging you close, then rinse and repeat. Once you’ve had that happen a couple rounds, I can assure you the final time where you orgasm is intense. Plus you can go really over the top with the full Manbearpig-sexual-force-of-nature finishing move.

Seriously, go Manbearpig on her…

… if she’s into you, she wants you to turn into a hormone driven animal on top of her, just on the edge of out of control. You creature of the night you. She wants to be the moon and you to be the werewolf.

Or you can always go the easy route and have her call you “Sir.” Or whatever way you prefer her to verbalize that she is submitting to you. That way the vanilla P-in-V you like continues, you add the requirement/request she admit to liking being dominated sexually by you.

Jennifer:  I finished editing your post sir….  :-)

When She Hates You With Her Vagina

Chimpy:  Like Flying Dutchman, I have run the MAP. Duty sex is the norm. It isn’t that she is not conscious. She consciously reverse plans what I do. Its as if she were saying “I will have more sex with you but I want you to know I think its a shit idea, and no matter what you try I am going to go out of my way to NOT enjoy it.”   It isn’t lay back and think of England its lay back like a sack of shit and think how to be more negative next time.

Athol:  This sounds much worse than duty sex (offering sex but not being wildly turned on; I wish I used the phrase “maintenance sex” now.) and more like hating you with her vagina. The purpose of her doing this isn’t to offer you an enjoyable moment while she gets to feel close to you. The purpose of this is to passive-aggressively make you suffer by punishing you for wanting her.

This is her still trying to maintain control of the relationship via sex. It’s the thing where you obviously want more sex, so she “gives you what you asked for”, but does so in a manner that technically fulfills your request, but violates your intention. This is a Scorched Earth Defense where she removes any chance of you “winning”, by purposely ruining what you seek to win. The intention being to break your will and force you back to your own side of the bed.

Here’s the thing… it’s a really really effective defense because every time you get sex where she hates you with her vagina, you are making a statement that you’re okay with that arrangement. You’re saying you’re so desperate and dependent on her vagina, that you’re willing to agree to what amounts to self-harm to get it. So odds are you’ll approach her for sex less and less. She does after all have you on a behavior plan designed to make you less and less interested in having sex with her.

Imagine if you will that you ask your wife to make you a cup of coffee and she returns with a simply horrible cup of coffee…. every single time.  Plus she shows no ability to learn or interest in making you a good cup of coffee ever. After a while you’ll just fold and say fuck this shit, I’ll just make my own coffee and never bother her about coffee again. Pretty soon you’ll be online looking at the pictures of all the different coffees you could have and ordering one of those fancy coffeemakers that makes single cups of coffee just for you.

So cutting to the chase…

If she hates you with her vagina, she hates your guts. I mean really really hates you…

…but you have something she needs badly enough to put herself through the experience of having sex with you once in a while. You know she needs something from you because otherwise she’d just leave. The sex is acknowledgement that it’s something you want from her, in order to stay around and keep giving her the thing she wants from you.

The Scorched Earth Defense creates a double bind.  You see, if you have sex with her hating you like this, you lose because you’re displaying desperation and weakness to her. But if you don’t have sex with her, that’s what she wants to happen and you keep giving her what she wants… so you lose that way too. Because she’s putting you in a double bind, she forces your hand toward an equally strong response. If you were playing a game of “Heads she wins, tails you lose” for $20 a coin toss, you’d quickly wise up and stop playing into her frame.

You have to admit to yourself that the entire situation has degraded into something dysfunctional. Admit to yourself that the hate sex is not making things any better. Admit that it all looks pretty much over between you.

 If the only thing she is bringing to the table is being a focus of your oneitis, she brings nothing to the relationship. Your romantic attachment is something you are bring to the relationship, not her. On a purely emotional level, you are probably better off having a random hookup, than having sex with someone that hates you. Not that I’m advising to have random hookups, I’m making a point about how bad being sexually hated is. I mean at least a hooker would say “Thanks” and want to do it again sometime.

Once things are this far gone, it’s easier to give birth than raise the dead. Or put more plainly, there are other women out there in the world that crave a man to bond with and sexually yield to. A relationship with one of them may bring you more joy, peace and happiness than anything you can recover with your wife.


So here’s the hope…

Run the MAP, prep for the exit like you have to leave. The power of the takeaway is strong. If you stop being interested in sex with her, stop waiting on her, stop circling forever in her orbit… she loses her leverage to control you. Without the ability to control you, her needs may not be met. Thus the balance of power in the relationship starts swinging quickly from her to you. When that happens, whatever justification she used for hatred may be quickly cast aside in a sea of tears and sorrow for her actions. (On one level that sounds completely cynical and pathetically transparent of her, but that’s what the female Red Pill moment looks like. It’s the moment where she realizes shes ruining everything.)

It might work, it might not. But if nothing else it breaks the cycle of hate and gives you something to do to get your life back into a forward momentum.

Duty Sex 2

Reader:  In “Women’s Infidelity I” by Michelle Langley, she uses the analogy of receiving a proctologic exam for how a woman feels being entered when she’s not aroused. It’s a necessary evil and you want it to be over. If you were forced to undergo it frequently purely because the doctor enjoyed doing it to you, that wouldn’t increase your comfort with the experience; it’d feel like a violation, with the discomfort escalating into full-blown dread and revulsion. On top of that, repeated encounters that result in an orgasm (dopamine/oxytocin release) for the man but not for the woman lead to a one-way emotional bond. The husband becomes progressively more bonded while the wife becomes more indifferent/repulsed.   This seems to speak directly against the “fitness/practice” idea. What do you think?

Athol:  Maybe I’m just getting older and more comfortable with my body, but I’ve had one ass doctor appointment and I think for about three seconds during the visit I turned gay. Maybe it was just a good doctor, I dunno. I’m not drawing doodles around any future appointment dates in my calendar or anything. I’m just saying it wasn’t traumatic.

Anyway… I’m not implying one should leap at the chance for forcing you way into a dry vagina that would rather take a nap. If your wife is offering duty sex, it’s something she’s offering. If she doesn’t want sex she shouldn’t have it. I’m not about forcing women to do anything in bed they don’t want to do. Don’t confuse being dominant, rough, wild or kinky with being forced/non-consensual. I outweigh Jennifer by about seventy pounds and have about three times her strength. If I used my clear physical advantage to gain sex without her consent, she would have left me long ago and I’d be behind bars.

You’re just not going to go from a sexless marriage to a thundering hot sex life without a progression involved. Not every night is going to make the Hightlight Reel. By definition, half of the sex you’ll have in your marriage is going to be below average. The nights of duty sex are obviously going to be below average nights. I’m just saying you should accept them and make the best of it. Don’t throw a hissy fit because she offered you half a loaf of bread because it’s not a whole loaf of bread. You’re trying to create a positive pattern of interaction together. Turning her down when she’s trying to meet you halfway isn’t going to get you what you want over the long term.

Seriously, what’s the difference between a handjob, blowjob or vaginal sex where the wife is doing it for the purpose of pleasing her husband, while not seeking copious pleasure for herself? If she wants to get you off and doesn’t want a penis in her vagina, there are multiple other ways to make that happen. If she’s consensually letting a penis in her vagina, she shouldn’t bitch about being violated or it being a necessary evil.

There’s a difference between her offering sex where she’s not that turned on in the moment, and her hating you with her vagina. Which I’ll get to in tomorrows post.

Jennifer: Yeah, that was TOTALLY not what I meant by “duty sex”.  (okay, so “duty” does sound negative.  Don’t know what else to call it though) For me “duty sex” is not “geez would you get off me already, I just want this to be over” sex.  If that was how I felt, I would not be having sex that night at all…that’s just not fair to either of you.  Just say no and all that.  If you are truly not in the mood then you are truly not in the mood, but if you’re just not touchy feely that night, or are tired and not up for a “we have a winner!” night, then how about a hand job, or lube up and a quickie.  Don’t do it if you are going to be viewing it as “a necessary evil”.  Do it if you are bonded to your husband, enjoy making him happy, and enjoy touching him even if you are not in the mood to be touched that night.

Dealing With “Duty Sex”

Reader:  Okay, two more quick questions and then I promise I’ll ease off.  (-:

1.)  Duty sex.  Those times when she’s just not that into it but you wind up doing it anyway, and she doesn’t wind up getting that into it during.  Maybe it’s just leftover Nice Guy “she comes first” programming, but I’ve always found it vaguely depressing.  It satisfies me in only the most literal, biological sense.  It doesn’t make me feel attractive or Alpha or whatever, it just makes me feel… empty.

Because of that, I used to avoid it like the plague, and I know the down sides of that (lots of mutual submission deadlock “do you want to have sex?” “I don’t know, do you?” crap mostly, and, paradoxically, less good satisfying sex in general).  So I’m resigned to the fact that, yes, sometimes I’m going to be into it and she’s not and that’s okay.

I guess what I’m asking is, how do you deal with it?  How do you frame it in your mind as something that’s okay?  Or am I just neurotic for even asking?  (-:

And on a related note,

2.)  There’s this whole chapter in the Primer about rewarding good behavior and punishing (through lack of attention) bad behavior.  Should this sort of duty sex be rewarded (because she did, after all, lay you, if perhaps not as enthusiastically as you might have wished) or punished (because, sure, you got sex, but it was half-hearted, unenthusiastic, resigned sex instead of the hot “do me you Alpha stud” fuckfest you wanted)?

Athol:  There’s a scale between “no sex at all” and “crazy hot sex”. “Duty sex” is somewhere just below the middle of that scale.  There’s also a sexual fitness where you need to get into more practice to get to the good stuff. You just can’t go from bad sex to crazy hot sex overnight. The more you have sex the better at it you get together. After the duty sex comes okay sex. After okay sex comes better sex. After better sex comes good sex. After good sex comes great sex.

The trouble is you are wanting to experience the feelings associated with great sex… with duty sex. You can’t. If you were having those feelings associated with great sex with duty sex, you’d actually be experiencing great sex. Great sex being defined as feeling great.

And now the cold clinical behavior modification section of the post where I treat women like lab rats….

If duty sex is the sexual behavior baseline, any time she does something better than duty sex, you should positively respond to it. Any time she does something worse than duty sex, you should reduce attention to her. Not actively punish her, simply reduce attention.

In time as her pattern of behavior improves to where you guys are having okay sex, then that becomes the new baseline. Once you’re up in the consistently good to great sex realm, the sex itself is a major reward so it’s very reinforcing of keeping that level of sexuality going. There’s not all that often that I specficially reward Jennifer for being good in bed, watching her arching her back and trying to tear the corner off her pillow as she orgasms being indication she’s getting a prefered reward anyway. It’s like a mouse that runs a maze to get to the cheese. When it gets there, you don’t pet it and tell it that it’s a pretty mouse, you just let it eat the cheese. Otherwise you can accidently end up with a mouse that doesn’t have interest in running mazes to find cheese, but a lot of interest in being petted and told it’s a pretty mouse.

Okay I think I abused that metaphor enough… moving on.

If you turn down the duty sex, she will interpret that as a display of weakness and become less interested in you. Men turning down sex are generally viewed being the complete opposite of Alpha by women. Guys are meant to be able to have sex with any opportunity available. Your wife. The co-worker. The drunk friend. The passed out woman behind the dumpster. Men are meant to be able to opportunistically whip their dicks out and stuff them into available vagina. That’s why “available” is the sexyest thing a woman can be to a man. Every time a married guy cheats on his wife, it’s because amongst other things, the other woman was available.

So when your wife makes herself available to you, and you don’t avail yourself of her, that’s sending her a highly negative response. Most wives have near zero ability to emotionally handle their husbands declining sex to them. If you do turn your wife down for sex, you should have a really good excuse like, “I have a gunshot wound and want to go to the ER.” Though obviously don’t use that if she has just shot you, because she’ll just think you’re blaming her for everything. Plus she has a gun. So comply.


Reduced sexual frequency also further establishes a pattern of lower sexual interaction. You want more sex, not less. So have more sex.  So I would keep having the duty sex and view it as a stepping stone to better sex. Sometimes you have to learn to walk before you run.

Also I get the vague sense that you’re trying to get the warm-fuzzies from having sex that you’re missing elsewhere in the relationship. Experiment with just fucking her. What you want is for her to act like she’s really into it… like she’s being fucked. So that won’t happen until you actually act a little harder edged and just fuck her. You’d be surprised how how cuddly women get after getting well and truly fucked.

I know this is a terrible paradox to come to grips with if you are a Nice Guy, but the greater the need of emotional connection you bring into bed with you, the less likely it is she connects to you emotionally. I really like Jennifer. We get on great and not only is she my best friend currently, she’s the best friend I’ve ever had. We kiss and cuddle and are warm and fuzzy with each other during the day and in bed. But there are also times when I don’t care about any of that. She’s just a woman in my bed and I’ll get what I want from her. I pump… but don’t dump.

The frame I tend to run with is that I’m like Dr Bruce Banner, walking around holding myself under control to avoid turning into a giant green rage monster called The Hulk that I can’t control. Except instead of rage, it’s horny. And to be quite honest… it’s not much of a frame, because this is pretty much the reality of the situation. So… available-pussy-I-can-unleash-on… fuck yeah!


Jennifer:  Every night isn’t crazy hot sex, but ever day is something sexual together so we never lose the connection. The more Athol is into it, the more I’m into it. And if I’m tired or cranky or whatever, I’ll say so and offer him what I’m in the mood for.  This makes me more likely to be into it because I’m giving him a heads up as to what I’m going to be receptive to that night.  (he he…heads up…he he) 

Pull My Hair

Reader:  Athol, I need help letting my husband know that I would like to try some hotter/more Alpha sex. I am attracted to him and we have a good sex life, but sometimes it is too “nice.” He has your book, but that message hasn’t taken hold. I don’t want to seem to be criticizing him in any way. How can I introduce this idea?

Athol:  The problem is that he’s likely so ingrained as a Nice Guy that while he mentally may understand you might like that sort of sex… he doesn’t believe it.

You’ve probably tried talking about it, so now is the time to try action. It’s one thing to say “I’d like to try that in bed some time.” and another thing in the middle of having sex to say “Pull my hair!” and look like you’re really into the idea of having your hair pulled. You can also do that sort of thing by text. Just say what you want to happen that night.

You can also go to an adult store and come back with something suitable to tie you up or swat your ass or whatever.

Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith and say what you want in the middle of sex.