Everything Was Getting Better, Now She’s Suddenly Talking Divorce

Reader:  The dynamics of my marriage have changed dramatically and your book has been at the heart of it. My MAP has not been perfect and I think I may have over reached a bit but I am finding the “D” talk to be unsettling.

Since running the MAP our sex has gone from 1X monthly to 2-3X/week for the twenty days per month she is not having her period.  Those ten days per month have been a challenge as I have trouble sustaining sexy moves and beta activities when I know she is locked up any way.  She feels like she has done allot to respond to me and can’t believe how my attitude suffers during the cold period.  I am not pissy, but off doing my own thing.  She senses it and is not getting what she usually gets from me and it gets immediately ugly.

I have done lots of manning up and she says she does not want to be dominated.  She accuses me of wanting to drive us apart so I can go find some attractive 30 something and has referred many times to me dumping her.  She is a wonderful, fun woman with a giant heart and I still find the same things attractive in her that brought us together.  D was never  my plan at all.  I have been High Desire my whole life, apparently unwilling to ask for what I want, and that is no longer something I will live with.

Anyway, I am curious if you hear from your readers and have a sense for how often everything blows sky high and ends in D? We had a conversation at 4 am this week where she suggested if I can back off for a year and a half so we can get our youngest daughter off to college and we can go our separate ways then. That’s easy to say but the shit tests have been coming hard and fast since that conversation.  She has gained some weight due to stress and my sex rank is solid.  She has a new job which I am encouraging but I make three times what she makes.

My wife is a strong lady and been a bucking bronco on all of this.  She seems to begrudgingly give me two steps forward before a step back.  In MC she admitted that she chose me for different reasons than sexual attraction.  I would be a good father, provider, etc… Ouch.  The reason I am willing to entertain the idea of D is because that seems like no way to live.

Athol:  It sounds like she’s just getting mentally geared up to be dumped, so is going to try and do it on her terms. She’s lost control of the relationship because you’re hotter than her, so she’s trying to gain control of the end of the relationship.

If she chose you because you’re a good father and provider and less sexy…. why would she divorce you if you’re still a good father and provider and more sexy? She’s just running the Hamster out loud about all that as part of the testing.  Going from sex once a month to 2-3x a week means she does find you more attractive now than before. So the addition of the Alpha was working as intended. You got better, she knows you got better, the problem is she didn’t and she’s worried you’re about to move on or cheat on her.

Yes I have seen Game give a short term boost to the marriage and then fall apart. It’s usually boosted because the husband added Alpha, and then falls apart because he doesn’t re-balance it with Beta when she get nervous in the aftermath. Basically the frame you need to assert is covered here.

I would also cut the divorce talk off at the knees asap. If you can have an amicable planned divorce, that means you can work as a team during emotionally trying times… which kinda suggests you could actually have an okay marriage. I would have blown up at her verbally “WELL I DON’T WANT A DIVORCE, WHY THE $%^& DO YOU WANT TO DIVORCE ME?”  Don’t insult her or call her names, just let her see your rage over the fact that she wants to end the marriage.

What she’s looking for is whether or not you have an emotional bond to her. She’s testing you by threatening to break that bond by raising the issue of divorce, so you’re meant to act like a wounded animal and react like you’re extremely pissed off and hurt. If you have a calm discussion about a potential divorce, you’re telegraphing you aren’t bonded to her. If you telegraph you aren’t bonded to her, she’s going to go all kinds of crazy testing on you because in her heart she knows you’re going to dump her and it’s far easier to leave a relationship mad than sad.

The ideal state to be in is where you as the husband have the upper hand in the relationship where your attractiveness could replace your wife with someone younger / hotter / tighter fairly easily, and she would very much struggle to replace you with a man of your quality… but she is still reassured of the relationship lasting forever (and you being faithful to her) on the combination of her basically being a good attentive wife and the depth of your emotional bonding to her.

Another great thing you can do to provide comfort that she’s not going to be dumped, is make plans for the future. Something like a vacation involving plane flights is ideal. It shows you’re thinking far ahead, with you still being a couple as part of your plans. A week in Europe if you’re American, or in America if you’re European is going to be a damn sight cheaper than a divorce.

But maybe that’s just me. Jennifer isn’t into jewelry, she’s into plane flights. But then again I’m from New Zealand, so I caused all that lol.

Jennifer:  Hey no fair! I do like travel and it is your fault!

 

Comments

  1. I agree with the advice regarding rage. The real question is, “Why weren’t you pissed off in the first place?” It’s so intolerable to me to have someone openly discussing the end of the relationship right to me face. I’d rather the person just have the balls to go through with it than pull that crap. Push her to her limits! Your rage will serve you well in grief as well as marriage.

  2. anonandon says:

    Athol, do you suppose that his (admittedly) different behavior during the week of her period might also have something to do with it? His difficulty sustaining sexy moves during that time could be adding to the problem. She might very well be taking ‘off doing other things’ as an emotional rejection (didn’t you write something about upping the Beta during that part of her cycle?).

    Also, hey — if he turns off the sexy moves during week four, he probably won’t be working his way up to compensatory oral anytime soon. Shame, that.

    Just a thought.

  3. This is off topic but would love to see your take in another post on how a relationship dynamic with a roissy like badboy aplying several dark game tactics would work/not work. To me it seems while it woudl work short term it would also create some resentment and underlying insecurity and unhealthy mindsets in the woman that would lead to her paying back in kind and looking for a way out the moment the badboy looses a bit of hand.

  4. Yeah, the ignoring during the period time sounded bad to me. Couldn`t possibly be helpfull.

  5. FeralFelis says:

    What is up with being out of commission during a period? Is it a religious thing? I am MOST horny during mine. I’ve only ever had one relationship (the most recent) where he didn’t want to have sex during that time, and it seemed as though he was torturing me. Since he didn’t want to have sex, he didn’t want to “get me going”. Since he didn’t want to “get me going”, there was no affection, no flirtation during that time. It was as though a pillar of our relationship (because for me, sex IS a one of main pillars…no pun intended) collapsed 4 days a month.
    Husband, on the other hand, understood. He even bought a red towel to put on the bed, bless his horny heart. When he gave oral attention to me during that time, he just “stayed in the bow of the boat with the little man” (his clever phrasing, to make me feel more comfortable). We did anal. We did mutual masturbation. We had shower sex. Sometimes we stained the sheets; oh well. He said, “I like to think of it as addtional, colored lube. We’ll turn the lights down low and it will eliminate the shock of the visual.”
    God, I loved that man!

  6. From a wife’s perspective, I think that he definitely needs to keep up the beta support during her period! She is hurting, tired, and edgy during that time. If she’s been giving him good sex 2-3x a week up till then, and he changes mode and “does his own thing” as soon as he knows she’s on her period, she will feel hurt and used and somewhat emotionally abandoned. That’s the place for some reassuring beta snuggling and maybe some flowers with a note telling her you are planning an all-nighter 9 days from now, so she better rest up. :)
    If she gets worried about you leaving, then you distancing yourself as soon as her body is off limits ISN’T going to reassure her you are very bonded.

    I love the teasing tension of the period week…I make sure he has had a great release the first day, and then I take him to the edge every day for the duration, and by the end we are both crazy ready for the kids to go to Mars. Keeps us emotionally connected and changes things up a little from our 4-5x week rut. :) Also helps me feel sexy and wanted while I’m feeling very blah physically. Love me some drawn-out tension and release.
    So yeah, up the beta, what Athol said. :) and maybe keep the alpha goin by telling her you are bringing home dinner so she can rest up for the bj she’s giving you tonight. I think that’d be a great A/B balance.

  7. PastorofMuppets says:

    The ‘ideal state’ proposed here sounds very much like a recipe for marrying down, or at very best settling. Why would I as a man want to marry a woman who would “very much struggle” to find someone of my quality? That seems to imply she has some significant flaws or issues that lower her attractiveness. And why would any guy choose to be with that lesser woman when a younger, hotter, tighter woman can be had “fairly easily?”
    Seems you’re advocating that it’s better to settle for a lesser woman for the sake of having the “upper hand” than finding the best possible person you can. Bleecch.

  8. Beeping Slooty says:

    1. Why is your wife bleeding 10 days out of every 30? That is excessive, and sounds like a medical problem.

    2. Thank you, FeralFelis for your comments about period sex. What’s the big deal about period sex? Why do so many people want to avoid sex during bleeding? There’s nothing wrong with it.

    3. If the husband is withdrawing affection from the wife during her period, that is a problem of bad attitude. In the first paragraph, the husband essentially says, “Since I won’t get to have sex during this time, why bother being affectionate and loving to my wife?” That sounds like a big problem.

  9. pdwalker says:

    up the beta during hell week.

  10. First thing: Reader in this story – knock down the Alpha during her period and up the Beta, stop pulling the disappearing act. Sure, do your hobbies or whatever, but really dude it wouldn’t kill you to take her out to eat and endure a shopping trip or something with her while she’s on the period.

    @PastorofMuppets

    When I read this I thought of it more in terms that they have been together for a long time. In the beginning when the wife was younger her SMV was high. Now because of age, baby-weight, her long term relationship behavior, whatever, it’s down. Also, I would say from her lack of sex with her husband over the years, her SMV is down as he perceives it and she unknowingly missed out on a lot of important opportunities to have her man bond with her emotionally with the lack of sexy time. Which is totally NOT in her best interests as her SMV continues to decline.

    It would have be much better for her in the second half of their marriage lifetime if her husband’s emotional memory was chock full of all the wild sexy times they had together during their youthful years of their marriage instead of “I only got it once a month, and she married me for other things than finding me sexy.” Ouch.

    That is the one thing in this particular story that gives me pause was her saying she married him for other things than finding him sexy. If that is really true and not just her trying to say hurtful things (which congratulations lady – mission accomplished on that front), that right there sounds like a woman who maybe “had her fun” and then decided to find a “nice guy” she could keep under control to support her.

    In this instance, since he’s armed with MAP and putting it into action, it seems she can’t control him so much anymore because he’s hotter than her and has options, so her security blanket is threatened, and it’s making her batshite crazy. Her SMV is on the decline and his is on the rise. When she says she “knows” he’s going to cheat on her or dump her, I believe what she is doing is projecting what behavior she would be engaging in if the shoe were on the other foot. Her threats of divorce are like a tyrant’s scorched Earth policy. The Russians are advancing on Berlin, burn everything in their path, leave them nothing. That’s conjecture though since I don’t know them personally.

    What I think a lot of approaching middle age wives failed to understand as young wives, is that it was in their best interests to be nice to their husbands when the SMV roles were reversed in the beginning of the marriage and her’s was more likely the higher of the two. Especially if she wants this man to continue to see a future with her once the SMV flip flops in the mid thirties – early forties.

    I know guys whose wives treated them great when they were young couples and the only way these guys would leave these women is death. I know other guys whose wives played it like the wife in this story and these friends tell me things like “Once the last kid graduates high school, I’m not sure what I’m going to do, but I can’t live like this much longer man…”

    In a general sense, when I read a lot of these stories (if the couple is in the 30’s-40’s) what comes to mind is, wife is hitting or hit the wall, husband is beginning to realize that his SMV can still be maintained or increase well into his forties and does something about it. When he realizes this and acts on improving himself, wall hitting wife gets nervous as hell and acts out in a last desperate gambit to keep hand. Sometimes the husband caves and goes back to being a puss. Hopefully he stays strong, outlasts her bullshit and she settles into the new dynamic, which I believe most women would be happier with.

    Maybe I’m crazy but to me it would seem that an emotionally healthy woman (is there such a thing? – chuckle) would be pretty happy to have a husband that works to keep himself sexy for HER, does the provider role well, takes charge of shit around the house, is more confident in all aspects of his life, and still does the little things to let her know she’s his special girl. Or maybe I am crazy and normal chicks don’t dig that. Dunno. Honestly I don’t know anymore if that’s true, but I hope.

    What the wife, in this story, and appears to me that a lot of women don’t seem to realize is that even though they are now no longer young and in bloom so to speak, 9 times out of 10, their husband is still totally crazy about HER, and wants what’s he’s wanted since they were in their twenties: to have lots of monkey sex with HER, and to be bonded with HER. You think he worked his ass off at that job he hates for 15 years, lived with lack of sex, nagging and generalized unhappy wife syndrome for fun, or do you think he did that as way of trying to show you over and over in his misguided man way that he’s totally dedicated to you? Think real hard about the answer. For God sake, give the guy a blow job.

    From observing my own life and the escapades of my friends and neighbors, seems it’s only when the wife is an incorrigible shrew or acts out badly like F’ing the pool boy that your average, decent suburban husband gets pushed to the point where he just has to get out to maintain his own sanity and health. At that point the financial penalty he pays to leave the marriage is small potatoes compared to the grinding soul crush he lives with each day.

    So for wives out there whose husbands are self improving and becoming sexier more confident men, here’s a tip: give him what he’s always wanted, a steamy sex life with Y-O-U and emotional bonding with Y-O-U. Go on ladies, take a chance on happiness. It won’t kill you to “give in” or give up “control.” After all, if you decide that you hate having a sexy husband that’s totally into Y-O-U, you can always go back to cutting him off from sex, nagging and eating Ben & Jerry’s.

    You really have nothing to lose in the attempt other than the good opinion of your girlfriends who will tell you that your husband is a control freak or an a-hole. Just keep in mind they are secretly jealous and wish their husbands were doing things more like yours and make no mistake they would try to bang or steal your man if they could. Giggles all around girls. Giggles all around…

  11. I think Athol’s advice and analysis is very good. This wife is feeling insecure that her world is upside down. That husband needs to take control and shut down all divorce talk with anger! The planning for the trip is good.
    My hubby used to distance himself during “Aunt Flow’s” visit each month and it hurt my feelings. (I was ok with period sex, but he didn’t care for it.) Part of my temporary PMS depression is that I decide people don’t like me. When hubby acted this way, it validated my PMS crazies.
    I did as Athol suggested and offered oral and handjobs during crimson tide week and that has helped for sure.

  12. Wait – before you react with anger to the D-talk…I’m remembering when I was in my early 20’s and my hubs and I would fight. I would get emotional and bratty and sometimes would say things like “Fine, why don’t we just get divorced?” (Pre-red pill, obviously.)
    He would always remain calm and shut me down with “We are not getting divorced. You are my wife and I love you. Don’t ever say that to me again.”
    It worked.
    I remember hearing somewhere,”He who is calm is controlling the argument.”
    Thoughts?

    Also, perhaps think of your wife’s threat of divorce as similar to a young child who threatens to run away from home when the parents aren’t giving them enough attention? I may be off here, but wanted to throw that out.

  13. horseman says:

    @zxl
    great synopsis of the almost inevitable inversion as the male and female power curves cross in mod forties. your analysis of the twenTy and thirty year olds in marriage is right on. In my opinion the man waking up and running some variation of the map or similar is inevitable. once the kid responsibilities are done he no longer needs her as mother so ha damn better want her as wife. if thats not there then its only until he gets mad enough or tired enough to say forties batchlorhood is better. i truly think without the obligation of kids for years five thru twentu five of most marriages they would not last. as you say years of job you hate plus nagging plis no sex. most or us are not that weak, religeous or masochistic enough to put up with it wihout some higher moralw or financial obligation. i.e. the power of raising kids as the prime motivator for staying.
    ladies should look for tjat week after the last heads for college. you are looking into the abyss of another twenty years of just you two. you no longer need each other so you damn better want each other or someone is leaving.
    like to see a survey of divorce rates correlated to entry of kids to uni or leaving home. bet there is statistically significant spike.

  14. I agree with Shanna. Anger will exacerbate the problem and reveal that she can control him emotionally through what she says. “Oh, look, that’s a big red button I can use whenever I feel like it!”

    Being in control also means being in control of yourself.

  15. @ZLX1 – Very good analysis.

    “Maybe I’m crazy but to me it would seem that an emotionally healthy woman (is there such a thing? – chuckle) would be pretty happy to have a husband that works to keep himself sexy for HER, does the provider role well, takes charge of shit around the house, is more confident in all aspects of his life, and still does the little things to let her know she’s his special girl. Or maybe I am crazy and normal chicks don’t dig that. Dunno. Honestly I don’t know anymore if that’s true, but I hope.” Yes, there is such a thing as an emotionally healthy woman and yes, many women want exactly what you have described. I know that many commenters in the manosphere think that it not the case, but it is. I think that many of Athol’s female readers are women who want to have that kind of relationship with their husbands and are working hard to achieve it and sustain it.

  16. It’s also possible for a woman to choose a man as husband for reasons other than monkey sex, but come to realize monkey sex is important, and she can develop the hots for her husband.

    I’ll admit I started marriage well below average in ability and interest, but stepped up to the plate as best as I could, because I knew it was important to him. Then he took the plate away. 10+ years on the down low, and any confidence I had in my own sex appeal went away for good.

    If the OP’s wife is doing better in the sex department, he should encourage her. Do what the other comments say. Make her feel loved and wanted, every day of the month.

  17. Turn off the lights, lay on a towel and don’t look down. Period sex solved. Also, she has two other places that aren’t affected by her period. When the red river flows, take the dirt road, ya know? As for the divorce talk, Athol is dead right. And keep the rage building. “Mention divorce ONE more time, an I’m fuckin gone! I said til death, and dammit, I meant til death! But sugar, if your heart ain’t in it like mine, then I’ll be gone.”

    That’s what I said to my wife. Haven’t heard the D word in 4 years.

  18. How do most men feel about period sex?? My first husband had zero issue with it (in fact he enjoyed that I was most horny durring that time!). Number 2 is a complete no go, no chance. We call that “blow job week” & I get to bust out my vib. It REALLY shocked me the first time he said no. hurt a lot because it felt like “your gross” almost like if he didn’t want to share my soda or something…I got over it, but OUCH! & I’m super careful not to have sex if I even MIGHT be starting because of how harsh that initial reflection was. ..I’m just wondering if I just got lucky with the first one or unlucky with the second ???

  19. @Jane If I am horny period blood is not a stop sign. Women are getting more or less nervous whith it and sometimes loose focus. This can make far more damage than the easthetics and the practicalities. My opinion is that you are unlucky with nr2.
    I used to have sex during her period with my W but with the years she became more and more reluctant. Now we do it only exceptionaly when she is very horny. So I take it as an excuse for not having sex rather than a real issue.

  20. This is his fault.

    If you don’t want to be sexual wih her during her period, fine. Just don’t be a dick about it and disengage – yes, that’s what you’re doing. You might get some oral, or a lube job, or anal, or something, if you were a good husband. And no, neglecting her for a third of the month is NOT being a good husband. *That’s* why she doesn’t want to be dominated by you.

    Good lord, do you realise what your entire question says about you? Man up, or your marriage is over.

  21. FeralFelis says:

    @Jane-
    In my experience and discussions with other libidinous women, it’s just about 50/50.

    My first BF didn’t have a problem with it at all. 2nd BF acted like I had the plague and my blood was infectious. That reaction kind of scarred me for life. 1st husband didn’t mind the “shoulder season” but was adamant about not doing anything in the middle of it.

    Read Ghost’s post; like my wonderful former husband, he’s got LOTS of ideas and it doesn’t even seem to phase him one way or the other.

    I think “let’s get a towel, turn off the lights and don’t look down” is a great start.

  22. 1) Disengaging during her period is missing a GOLDEN opportunity to give her plenty of Beta and set her up for the next part of her cycle. Think of your wife’s menstrual cycle as a constantly-but-predictably-shifting wind that you have to learn how to tack to navigate. When it’s blowing from the West (period) you rig for Beta, and then as it shifts back around towards the East (ovulation) you change the rigging, tack, and go much harder Alpha. It’s a continuum that you have to manage. This is the time when you do stuff like check the dates on the stuff in the fridge and medicine cabinet, encourage her to clean out her closet, do minor home repairs, and otherwise be seen as an active nest-building supportive provider. THEN you can gear up to take her to Pound Town. Besides, this is the best time to whip her ass at Scrabble.

    2. Divorce talk: Shut it the fuck down. It’s her attempt, as many here have said, to regain control of the marriage through the empty threat to end it, hoping to scare you into a more submissive position. Next time she mentions it, give her a derisive snort and a roll of your eyes and say “Divorce? Hell, woman, you think you’re going to get rid of me that easily? No, I’m staying in this until either we’re blissfully happy or I’m utterly convinced that you’re hopeless . . . and we have a LONG way to go before I can state either of those two things definitively. So suck it up, take a good hard look at yourself, and ask yourself whether you want to be a happy, sexually-fulfilled middle-aged wife who loves her devoted husband, or yet-another bitter, aging, man-hating divorcee who spends her weekends getting drunk with her girlfriends and complaining about your ex-husband’s new 25 year old hot Korean wife. But I told you at the alter I was going to give this my best shot, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to let you whine away our last opportunity for happiness.”

    Or something like that. But you don’t let her use that word without a strong but calm, derisive reaction. It’s not an ultimatum, it’s a shit test. Treat it as such and move on.

    3. “I don’t want to be dominated.” Again with the semantics. If you must, replace “dominated” with “managed” in your conversations with her . . . and if she objects to that, then point out that every adult who has had a job has been managed, and ask her if she’s incapable of that. If she demands that she doesn’t need to be managed in the relationship, then this is an excellent time to point out all of the Red Pill areas where she’s weak: fitness, health, promptness, cleanliness, argumentativeness, rudeness, etc. and ask her which of those things she’s successfully managing on her own.

    Yes, it’s an open-invitation to an argument, but some arguments must be made. “I don’t want to be dominated by you” is her Hamster’s way of reasserting control of the relationship, as much as the divorce talk. Replacing the term with “managed”, with a wink and a nudge that you really do mean “dominant” when you say it, side-steps the emotional content of “dominated” while retaining hand. Eventually it will become silly even for her to say it. But you cannot give in to her emotional arguments or even give them credence, or her Hamster gets fed. Treat her with the bemusement you’d show a tantrum-throwing teenager, and then keep doing what you’re doing.

  23. Like old pal Fred said: “Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent.”

  24. YES. What Ian said.

  25. I wonder if the problem with period sex is that men don’t want it, or if they’re just trained to not go after it by cold, dry women using it as an excuse to avoid sex….

    I understand the soreness, but don’t most women take some sort of Motrin, Midol, Tylenol, or whatever to get through the cramps? I do, and I only need to use the meds 1-2 days anyway. Then when the cramps are gone, it’s just like I’m pre-lubed! It makes the job much easier for the man, as there’s little to no foreplay needed. Isn’t that a bonus?

    I could understand having less sex during a period because of the flow volume, tiredness, or cramps, but why take out 5-7 days of the month entirely? That’s losing 25% of your possible sexy time!

  26. Agree that what sounds like a near-total shutdown of attention and affection during her period is a capital-B capital-I Bad Idea. It sends her the message that when you do spend time with her, you are doing so only because you expect it to directly lead to sex. How is that SUPPOSED to make her feel? Sex is important, but it can’t be all there is to your relationship, and while she should want to feel sexy and desirable for you, she doesn’t want to feel like a sexbot to be put away in a closet to run its maintenance cycle in between uses.

    Have to disagree about reacting with rage at the idea of divorce, though. If that was how you’d honestly reacted when she’s first brought it up, that might have been best, but how do you go from calmly discussing limping through your marriage for a year and a half and then divorcing to becoming enraged at the very idea of divorce without it looking like exactly what it is: an act?

    If you honestly are angry that “the D word” has been brought to the table, you can express that in a controlled way. The frame I would use is that you find it ridiculous to go straight to divorce without even trying to fix things, that you’ve put a lot of effort into improving what you’re bringing to the marriage and that you plan to continue to do so, and that you expect her to put in a proportional amount of effort from her end.

    Ian and I have done a lot of back-and-forthing on terminology in the comments to previous posts and it seems like neither one of us want to hash over it again, but speaking as someone with a lady who has problems with the dominant / submissive frame, the word “expect” has been an immensely useful one. It puts you in a much more dominant position to say that you “expect” her to do this or that than saying you “want” her to do this or you “need” her to do that, and as long as your expectations are reasonable, it’s unlikely to send up any red flags and provoke defensiveness.

    A clear list of what you expect her to do over the next year and a half to try to improve the marriage to the point where it can sustain itself without a kid at home should prove useful and even welcome to her. Among those expectations should be that talk of divorce is not productive and therefore should be stopped. If she does everything you expect of her (and you continue to hold up your end, including balancing out your newfound Alpha with some Beta around period time) and the marriage still fails, then it fails, but until such time as that happens you are both to proceed on the assumption that it will succeed.

  27. “How do most men feel about period sex??”

    Neither my wife nor myself are into period sex. That’s not to say we’ve never done it, or never will again, but 99% of the time it is a showstopper and we are both OK with that.

    However, we do make good use of her period. We flirt, we tease, we touch, we rub, grab a handful of this or that… and just generally get one another worked up for 3-4 days KNOWING FULL WELL there will be no nookie tonight.

    The result is that our “day afer the period ends” sex is consistently the best sex we have. And we have pretty damn good sex the rest of the time, so that’s saying something.

  28. “How do most men feel about period sex??”

    I don’t mind at all. The current Wife doesn’t have physical periods (downside: I don’t know when the hormones are about to kick in so I try to track by the clothes she wears). Last girlfriend didn’t either, so it never entered the picture. Previous GF was 100% against sex then, most other GF’s were ok fine with it. Previous Wife was ok with it but had a negative outlook on her ‘down there’ parts.

  29. Ian’s #2 is fucking classic!! Especially the part about the Korean wife….just awesome. I’m going to have that one canned and ready if such a day shall ever arise…

  30. FeralFelis says:

    @ Ben-
    You are a voice of calm, dominant (but not domineering) reason and I am sure I am not alone in saying, “Thank you!” from the distaff side of the house.

    I would be your First Mate any day :)

  31. “That reaction kind of scarred me for life” and other comments with the same tone in here… really girls, “woman up”. Anything a man do or say can “scar you for life”? C´mon!

    If he is acting all “I am disgusted by this” and you are turned on, just take care of yourself. Lay down in bed with your little toy, and let him see you doing it. He has no way to win the argument, it is “join or leave”… I am pretty sure he would start thinking about joining it. ;-)

  32. @R.

    Don’t underestimate the demoralizing effect a bad early sexual experience can have. I went through most of my twenties honestly believing I disliked blowjobs, when it turned out my first girlfriend was just really bad at giving them! (Bless her heart, she tried….)

  33. R –
    1) when someone you LOVE acts repulsed by your body (somethign you can’t control) it’s really hurtful. I’m not sure if you’re male or female, but if you’re male, imagine pulling down your pants, fully expecting to get laid and she blurts out “oh GROSS, you’re dick is so SMALL!” at the point, would you feel like, well I think i’ll just jack off and see if she wants to join me? Or if your partner said “your mouth kinda grosses me out, i dont think I’ll kiss you.” In general, I’ve always felt that the people I love, their bodily fluds are not gross (even if I think saliva of a stranger is disgusting…), maybe it’s just me though. And maybe you feel different if you’ve slept with a lot of people? I’ve slept with 2. The first 11 years of sexual activity with a guy who never mentioned the period thing, so I was completely shocked when the second guy said it. Kinda like i guess I assumed I was hot enough that he’d want me regardless of it being a little messy? Plus, once you get that negative reaction, it really does kinda kill my desire completely. My BIGGEST turn on is HIM being turned on. Maybe I’m abnormal that way, but I absolutely love when my guy is fully into it and into me. In fact, when I’m masturbating, I’m actually fantisizing about those most enthusliast times. So to have my guy show not only lack of enthusiasm, but outright disgust with my body, kinda kills any drive to be sexually active….

  34. @Jane:

    The small dick/period comparison does not hold because a small dick is permanent, the period isn’t. It would be best to compare to other bodily fluids. For example, I’ve cleaned my childrens’ snot with my bare hands before, have yet to ever wipe my husband’s and would cery much like to never have to. Maybe other people wouldn’t mind as much, everyone is different. Same with pimples. Some couples love popping each other’s pimples, other couples would be like no thank you.

    As far as blood specifically, some people are more sensitive than others to the sight of blood. And even though you can turn off the light and not look, the guy still has to clean himself afterwards, and depending on the flow it could be quite a clean up. Some guys won’t mind at all, some guys are gonna wanna pass on that.

    So I don’t see how being turnes off by period blood equates being turned off by the woman specifically.

  35. Sorry about all the typos, on my iphone while on an elliptical at the gym :)

    Also, I was just refering about touching period blood, not about touching the other parts of the woman. I agree with all the above posters that if intercourse during the period is not your thing, that still leavea plenty of opportunity for other types of physical intimacy, and for the guy to be his very best romantic beta. Like Eric said a handful of days of no intercourse but plenty of teasing can be a very good thing indeed!

  36. yeah i guess that’s it’s not perminant is a good point. I’m pretty into him, so even when it comes to stuff that maybe I’d rather not (like if he has a cold, I still want to kiss him…I’ve also cleaned out sugical wounds before, none if it phases me), it doesn’t really affect my desire to have sex with him. Maybe it’s more akin to women who won’t let a guy cum in her mouth because it’s gross? That’s an aversion to bodily fluid…At any rate, that was my only experience with sexual “rejection” and it definately stung and stayed with me. Although I’ve moved past the hurt, the behavior is the same: I don’t want to chance it when I get CLOSE to my period and I wait to be done for a few days before we start back up, just in case…And past the hurt, it was more the SURPRISE that that would be an issue as it never even occured to me: my first husband was unphased so it didn’t even occur to me that that would be a potential stop sign…it’s kinda the advantage of staying with one partner your whole life i suppose: that’s just the way SEX is, the other options don’t even cross your mind…

    Also- I might as well also mention my shock that men who won’t have sex when their wife is on her period would have ANAL as the alternative?! The blood grosses you out but not the fecal mater huh? I’ve not tried anal before, so perhaps I’m ignorant on the mater, but it doesn’t sound much cleaner….

  37. Joe Commenter says:

    @Jane. For me, the period revulsion thing is just an excuse to get anal sex. Yes the fecal matter is grosser than the blood (blood not a big deal to me) But anal sex is the hottest thing the mrs and me do. She just doesn’t tolerate anal on a day in day out basis. 2-3 times/month OK.

  38. Seriously, period sex should never be a problem. Especially if she’s horny. The only time I was ever grossed out by period sex was when my brother told me about it when I was a 15 year old virgin.

  39. cassius says:

    Even though I agree with the other commenters that during her period he should not be fully disengaging, I do not think that can explain her talk of divorce and her other comments about him dominating her and looking for girlfreinds. Also, the OP did not say he was completely disengaging – he said he had a hard time keeping up the beta moves. even if he is not perfect, his imperfect engagement does not explain her reaction.

    I think ZLX1 was most on target, that she was looking for a beta provider, and now she is losing that. I got the feeling while reading the letter that there was never a true improvement in their relationship, but that his wife was giving him sex as a way to counteract his rising sex rank. Sort of, here, I will give you some a little payoff, and now please back off of your agressive sex/marriage tactics. The sex was a way of counteracting what he was doing, not a healthy response to his increased desirability. When it did not work – he is still working on the MAP – she starts getting frustrated with him, and with the way the relationship is heading.
    to the OP – Maybe slowing down the map a bit would help. Let her relax for a month, and then get back to work. Let her know (once, clearly, and simply) that you realize your increased rank threatens her, you will try to let up a bit, but then you will be back on track. It also sounds like you need to work on how you approach her for sex, she is not responding positively to your current approaches.

  40. The first time me and my SO ever had sex she said “It’s my period, I hope you’re not squeamish.” And on seeing my reaction: “Oh, of course you’re not, you’re a grown man!”

  41. @Cassius:

    Agree that the lack of beta during her period doesn’t excuse or even fully explain her behavior, just think that it’s a missed opportunity at best and counterproductive at worst.

    Not sure I agree that dialing back the MAP is a good approach. At its heart, the MAP is a program of self-improvement. I don’t think it’s ever healthy for one person in a relationship to be less than they can be because the other person might be threatened. Relationships are meant to help us be better people, not hold us back.

    I think the thing to do is to up the Beta (without dropping the Alpha too much), reassure her that these improvements are for the benefit of the relationship and not as a way to seek outside poon, keep running the MAP and trust that she’ll eventually have to start trying to up her Sex Rank to keep up with his rather than trying to hold his down to keep him from getting too far ahead.

  42. alphaguy says:

    OK, almost three days without a new post… I think Athol is playing too much Diablo III

  43. Changed Man says:

    Agree with Ben. The whole point of the MAP is for the wife to feel ‘threatened’ or, at the least, out of her comfort zone. As previously stated, the D-word is either a ploy for the wife to see if the hubby will fold and seed control of the relationship back to her, OR the hubby has not done enough beta reassurance that he’s doing the MAP to have a better, more fulfilling relationship with HER! I would have guessed that it was the later, but the ‘marrying him for a provider and not for his sexiness’ is a bit concerning. In either case, the answer is not to slow down, but to continue the pace and execute it more properly.

  44. Changed Man says:

    Must be Diablo 3 because Torchlight 2 beta is closed. :-)

  45. Maybe he got sick from his mac and cheese omelet. Or other such fare.

  46. definitely Diablo 3, lol

  47. Apparently you have to actually hit “publish” after writing a post lol.

    Three days is a long time for no post though!

  48. FeralFelis says:

    Thank goodness it was Diablo III!!

    I was afraid he was deep-cleaning the carpets and organizing the spice rack ;)

    JUST KIDDING!!!

  49. Ben, i hear ya. Wifey has been upping the shit tests after about month 4 of the MAP in my view to down my rank against hers instead of upping hers. One time when we were out with friends, i overheard her saying she see’s “whores” checking me out. I giggled to myself. Somethings workin’.

  50. enlightened1 says:

    Whew!! I’m relieved too. I had the same visions of ‘deep cleaning the carpet and organizing the spice rack!! Only, I added an apron to the visual and Athol flapping his arms over an imagined dirty spot! How quickly we lose faith!!! How scary that we’re hanging on your every word Athol!!! :-)

  51. Jennifer 6 says:

    Maybe she really doesn’t want to be dominated; I can see her sudden fear here. Honestly Athol, your advice to get more attractive is always good, but the heart of the issues you sometimes strike at, like the attitude of “be svelt and let her know you can replace her” which is sometimes accompanied by a “flirt in front of her” line, is ugly.

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