If She Can’t Act Appropriately In Public…

Reader:  “When women tell you to Man Up, what they think they are saying to you, is for you to “Be a winner.” But because they feel they have to say that to you, they’ve already decided that you are a loser.”

Yeah, ran into this a little over a month ago, maybe you can tell me how i should have handled it. Was a friends birthday party, and i was there with my at the time FWB. So he pulled out the hardcore Portuguese spirits and started pouring shots. It was nasty stuff. When i pounded it back, i thought i swallowed acid and im sure my face showed it, along with the groan.   FWB turns to me and says ‘Really? You should buck up and take it like a man. You don’t hear us complaining when we have to swallow!’ (obvious sex ref)

I had no comeback. I just took the next shot and pounded it back and didn’t even flinch, as nasty as it was. I just looked her dead in the eye and said, ‘That’s how good European girls do it’. But i already knew the shit test was lost. On top of that i took myself to about 1 drink away from throwing up, something i haven’t done since my teens. So i fell into the trap of ‘manning up’ against my better judgement and health risk involved.   If anyone knows a good way that should have been handled.. I’m all ears!

Athol:  A Friend With Benefits who isn’t acting like a friend, effectively demotes herself to being a rental vagina.  So what you should do is say you’re not going to jump through hoops she’s setting, just because she’s being a bitch.

Unfortunately though, she has majorly upped the ante by doing this in public, trying to shame you into doing something you clearly didn’t want to do, so you can’t just have a private word about this. You can’t ask her to step outside to address things, because if you do that, you’re telegraphing to the entire group that you’re too weak to handle her publicly. She just going to smirk and very loudly call you out again, attracting even more attention to it. So whatever you do, needs to happen right then.

Personally I don’t have any interest in being with anyone goading me into doing something like that, so that would in and of itself make me start losing interest in me being with them. I would give them the thanks for playing two second speech and tell them to find their own ride home. Basically if she can’t behave like she’s part of a couple in public, she can’t be part of a couple in public.

I know that sounds drastic, but in a dating situation if she’s pulling public stunts to try and embarrass you, you’re already on the way out of the relationship. So by acting like you’re completely prepared to walk away from her, you beat her to the punch and force her to reassess the situation quickly and maybe her hamster finds you suddenly more attractive. Even then the whole thing is probably just scorched earth anyway as far as this girl is concerned, you just want the story about the incident being that you unflinchingly dumped her rather than you almost tossed your cookies trying to impress her.

And besides, if when she swallows it burns going down like a shot of 100 proof something, she’s really got to stop blowing infected guys.

P.S. Of course it it’s a guy goading you into trying to do something foolishly stupid, you just say “Go right ahead, once you’re injured / dead / jailed / unconscious, I’ll make sure your girlfriend / wife is properly looked after.” Then you smile happily and encourage them to do it.

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Comments

  1. Suz says:

    Scorched earth is a perfectly reasonable result of playing with fire. I know I sound like a heartless bitch, but there is NO excuse for such behavior. She deserves some real-life consequences. In fact if she harbors any hope of ever having a successful relationship, she NEEDS some real-life consequences.

    “…tell them to find their own ride home.”

    I suggest possibly going a step further, and telling her to “fuck” her way home. Tell her there’s a room full of men to pick from and announce loudly to them that a slut is currently available to any white knight who cares to put up with her shit. (That will set the tone in case any manginas are tempted to speak up on her behalf.)

    While I firmly believe that escalating such a scene is in very poor taste, I also believe that attempting to teach a domineering bitch that actions have consequences, can be dirty work. A man limits his choices by even getting involved with such a female, although maybe the sex is worth it (for a while.) However, he needs to be prepared to get out of it with his balls intact. He can ignore and/or forgive her shit tests, with guaranteed bad results, or he can let a room full of people how “a man” sets down a bitch.

  2. Linanati says:

    Maybe she was trying to make a joke and didn’t mean it to come out like that? She should apologize though, because yeah, that wasn’t very nice.

  3. JCclimber says:

    Next time, don’t worry about if you make a face and it burns.
    Immediately flip the frame. Say “Whew, that sucker burned! You guys tried to set me up to look like a pussy in front of everyone by spitting it out, didn’t ya?”. Presuming you didn’t actually spit it out, and can knock back one more with a little less fuss, you should be good.

    Oh, you meant how should you have handled the s test from the FWB? Athol’s advice is pretty good.
    I like the response about “maybe you shouldn’t be blowing men with flaming STDs”, except that it implies to everyone that YOU have flaming STDS. Getting drunk was pretty bad response, and your acknowledgement of it on this blog shows great promise.
    What do you imagine someone with unshakeable frame would say? Think about alpha text game. You just burned out your throat and a couple days worth of nasal passage lining. You shouldn’t expect yourself to have a quick retort. I think the ideal response would have been “Gay”. Said without any butthurtness. Just one 3 letter word. Her hamster would immediately spin this if you hold frame to the context that you’re stating that swallowing, on your part, would be gay, which you obviously aren’t.

  4. Alphamission says:

    Yeah, but my cum is your gift from the heavens, this booze is just shitty.

  5. Firepower says:

    She was just joking around. If you’re not in a relationship with humor – and it’s instead based on combative gender roles and actual denigration…you’re boning the wrong chick.

  6. Liz says:

    That’s just nasty. In both senses of the word. As Athol said, this guy lost as soon as he didn’t publicly refuse to give her a lift home.

    I think the “man up” speech, especially in the Manosphere, can be a frustrated reaction to whining – and yes, whining does happen. I have the same reaction when women (especially feminists) start whining – especially the “men don’t like me because I’m so strong and awesome” rant. Uh huh.

  7. Badger says:

    “Personally I don’t have any interest in being with anyone goading me into doing something like that, so that would in and of itself make me start losing interest in me being with them. ”

    Bingo. I love how Athol makes it clear that you shouldn’t tolerate a shitty partner (thus the MAP and the dump for uncommitted arrangements). LTR Game seemed to start out as “how do I get my wife/SO to do this or that?” and quickly became meta-game – don’t get into relationships with people you don’t get along with, and think about getting out if you’re in one already.

    Sound game instructors have never promised that you can mind-control a woman into wanting to be with you, but just to be clear – you can’t talk any given person into the sack/a fling/a LTR, so a big chunk of game is just deciding what you’re NOT going to tolerate from a mate. Getting what you do want isn’t easy, but _you_ easily have the power to keep what you DON’T want out of your life.

    “Basically if she can’t behave like she’s part of a couple in public, she can’t be part of a couple in public.”

    As a younger guy dating, I can say this is a dicey balance to strike. Neither side is entitled to the benefits of couplehood until there is actual couplehood (to some degree, that includes appearing in public as a unit with no testing or tantrums), but you have to put on some kind of an audition. On the other hand, if you put on too much of an audition you can get bounced. Nice Guys know this, going all in too fast, and girls experience it too when guys perceive clinginess.

  8. AnonJohn says:

    first mistake: hanging out with a slut that does shots.

    i mean, come on, really?

    shots?

  9. Ben says:

    Good post. To a wife in that situation I might simply say, “That’s strike one.” She’s (presumably) earned the benefit of the doubt and the right to back off and apologize with no lasting consequences (as long as this isn’t the sort of thing she does all the time). To a long-term girlfriend I might say, “You get that one for free. If you ever say something like that to me in public again, there will be consequences,” and then spell those consequences out in detail later in private (because your private shit isn’t the business of anyone else in the room). Maybe. If I really liked her and there were extenuating circumstances.

    But a fuckbuddy? Nah. Dump her on the spot. What you lose in short-term action you’ll gain three times over in long-term self-respect. The whole point of a no-strings-attached relationship is that you’re not so attached that you can’t give her the boot if she can’t act right.

  10. Jack says:

    How about this response:

    “Burns your throat huh? Well in that case you should probably stop doing it because honestly its not really doing all that much for me…”

  11. Julia says:

    “I would give them the thanks for playing two second speech and tell them to find their own ride home.”
    Athol, this put the onus on your hosts or other guests to give this socially maladjusted creature a ride home. Not cool! Some kind soul will feel obliged to give her a lift, thus having to clean up after you.

    Taxi.

    “I suggest possibly going a step further, and telling her to “fuck” her way home. Tell her there’s a room full of men to pick from and announce loudly to them that a slut is currently available to any white knight who cares to put up with her shit. (That will set the tone in case any manginas are tempted to speak up on her behalf.)”

    Suz, going nuclear like this would either: start even more psychodrama from EWB (enemy with benefits). get Reader on the uninvited list for future gatherings, or most likely ruin everyone’s party unless they’re a particularly rowdy group! Again, not cool.

    What would I have done? Ignore EWB for the rest of the party, take her Jerry Springer ass home and notify her that her services will no longer be required in the future.

  12. JCclimber says:

    You all noticed that this was a FWB, right? Seriously people, I’m starting to wonder if Athol’s readers bother to read whole sentences or just pluck out the parts they want to react to…
    FWB is not being in a relationship. You see, in man world, friends give their friends a hard time all the time. Especially when drinking cheap alcohol…..You’re treating this situation as if she was his girlfriend or something.

    Evidently we have different notions of what FWB relationships are like.

  13. Ponyboy says:

    The whole point of the FWB relationship is to have unattached sex.

    Unattached meaning that the reader owes her nothing, but she owes him nothing either. She can be nice, she can be a bitch she can be whatever she wants to him and vice versa – no strings.

    But, because there are no strings, either can end it at a moment’s notice.

    Her comment about swallowing cum would have pissed me off more than the booze one. He lost his frame by going along with the whole booze pressure, she just piled on.

    I probably would have said something like, “I don’t think I want to fuck you anymore.” And then turned away from her and left it at that.

  14. Julia says:

    Sorry, Athol, that still sounds like dereliction of duty. You brought it; you get it out of here. Telling her to take a cab just ups the drama and makes Reader look like a tantrum boy instead of a calm, cool, collected alpha man.
    I can just see Princess Pissy running around a party setting squawking that she has to call a taxi because her “friend” won’t drive her home! Oh wait, they’re not really friends; maybe that’s the problem? How well and how long did Reader know her? Was she properly vetted for public interactions?

    JC: I’ve seen men “insult” each other quite a bit in social gatherings, but the thing is they’re buddies and everyone knows it. They KNOW each other, they know the limits. And the dynamics are different in male/male friendships and male/female friendships. I tease my male friends but I know I can’t say the same things the guys do.

  15. JL says:

    And the winner is… Alphamission! with the witty retort:

    “Yeah, but my cum is your gift from the heavens, this booze is just shitty.”

    If you can’t handle shots, then don’t participate: You’re setting yourself up for failure.
    Or, participate, make yourself a fool and then establish dominance in some other way.

  16. Ben says:

    My guy friends give me shit all the time… and I’m also not sleeping with them. If I were, I’d expect a certain base level of respect for the manhood that they apparently hold in high enough esteem to want inside them.

  17. CL says:

    @ JCclimber

    That was my thought reading the comments. I mean, if he was paying for the girlfriend experience, that would be different, but a shit testing FWB isn’t worth putting up with.

  18. PocketAces says:

    Damn, last thread, I didn’t catch the FWB reference.

    If you wanted to burn the bridge: “And that folks is the difference between fuck buddy and girl friend.”

    Moderate amount of sting: “You didn’t make it sound easy last night, you know, with all the gagging and whatnot.”

    +1 on the “flaming STD” line. It’s even better if no one knows you are having sex with her, because there’s an inside joke there.

    JCclimber is right: Fuck buddy is emphasis on buddy in public. Not that I would know from experience. Also, depends on if others know she is your fuck buddy or not.

    If no one knows your are having sex with her, you can be more crude than you otherwise would and enjoy the inside joke. Sounds like she was looking for some playful banter. Play along. It can be great fun to have a girl buddy that you get to sleep with. (I have had a GF that I treated like a buddy in public, but I wouldn’t have called her a FWB, she was just a bit of a tomboy and that worked well for her.)

    If she said it with anger, well, she’s pissed and doesn’t want to be a FWB, she wants the full GF.

    So, all depends on the context.

  19. DB says:

    It seems to me that FWB relationship is just a slightly less complicated version of a real relationship and therefore can be managed just the same. There are still mutual benefits to it. You’re friends so you get a lot of the companionship. You’re lovers so you get the intimacy. The only difference is you don’t get the emotional attachment. You can probably be more alpha in these relationships, but you still need some beta because of the friend part and because you still want to be having sex with this person. She’s still a woman and will still test you. If you want to maintain the sexual relationship, you’re going to have to remain attractive to this woman. Failing her shit tests isn’t going to do this. In fact, do you not almost have more of an obligation to remain attractive here because presumably that’s what the relationship is built on?

  20. ZLX1 says:

    Whenever one encounters a situation like this in life just ask yourself the following question:

    “How would a guy who treats himself with a lot of self-respect react to this?” Then do that…

  21. Eric says:

    “‘Really? You should buck up and take it like a man. You don’t hear us complaining when we have to swallow!’”

    Athol is correct that you have probably made a poor choice in companionship and should simply make other choices in the future. In my experience, the best reply in such a situation is to have a well-practiced “you’ve just gone over the line” look you can give her that doesn’t require words. Mine is a cocked eyebrow and half-smirk delivered while making direct eye contact and holding it just a little longer than is comfortable. Then look off to the side and proceed to ignore her. If you are the first to speak to her after giving such a look, you lose.

    However, if you are going to bother with a reply, you have some options:

    - “Wow, do you suck your daddy off with that mouth?”

    - “Clearly it would be difficult for you to do much complaining when you have a big dick in your mouth, ho-bag.”

    - “Not hearing you endlessly complain about shit? One can always wish.”

    - “What, this drink? It was the thought of one of your horrific blowjobs that made me make that face in the first place!”

    Of course it is easy to think up replies after the fact… that’s why a good serious “you done fucked up” look is good to keep in your pocket.

  22. Draggin says:

    The response depends on the tone and frame that she says it with. It needs to be calibrated to her initial tone and the surrounding group or you are the one who will lose status in the relationship/group. That is what this is all about, isn’t it?

    If she is laughing and says it in a light tone then it is a minor shit test and/or joke that went too far and needs to be treated as such. I’ve done it myself with a miscalibrated joke occasionally and appreciated that the person on the receiving end treated it as such. With those, I think the best way is to brush it off with a smartass comeback to regain control of the situation, show that you are secure in yourself, and then let it go. Coming down hard on her will make you seem overly sensitive, whereas a confident man can afford to be more magnanimous. When I am on the receiving end of this type of thing, I try to picture how I would react to a child being silly and crossing the line and then use that frame to respond.

    If she said it in a mocking or sneering tone, then it does need to be handled with a much stronger frame. If you are sure of winning, then by all means call her out in public and chastise her. I do like Athol’s approach, but be prepared for it to flare up. Pick your battleground as you may not want that to happen in front of your boss or other people that have influence in your life and that may judge you for having such shitty taste in friends.

    An overlooked option is the do nothing approach or subtle variations. This is for those times where you just don’t know what to do in the moment or don’t want the situation to expand beyond the immediate area (i.e. wedding, funeral, clients nearby). This is how the original poster started out. He was doing ok when he initially ignored her. The shit test was only truly lost when he responded to her manipulation by having another shot and somehow compared himself to a European girl. I have read and found that when you don’t have a great comeback and don’t know what to say, say nothing. It is much better than coming up with something lame that lets her set up another shit test that you fail. If necessary, give her the look that tells her she has crossed the line and that she is on probation. If you can, pretend you didn’t even hear it or, failing that, that it wasn’t even worthy of acknowledgement. It gets their hamster running and they have to fill the silence. Many times they end up imploding the shit test themselves. This is not a long term solution though and the discussion about her behaviour has to come later unless you are absolutely sure she has learned her lesson.

  23. Firepower says:

    All this Alpha/Not Alpha stuff goes too far.

    If a chick says that to me, she always has a wink in her eye.
    One hottie said something similar about jizz guzzling
    and I said “you, ought to know – you could give bj lessons” or something to that effect.

    She got the tingle, and made lewd comments that night in bed while she did it to me.
    lighten up for chrissakes

  24. PocketAces says:

    +1 for Draggin.

    BTW, if she’s bantering, when you say your retort, grin and give her a light squeeze on her ass. Your choice on whether it’s overt for all to see or a covert sneaky squeeze.

  25. Ben says:

    @ZLX1:

    Actually, that’s my problem with the FWB arrangement: it’s inherently unstable because it’s never what both people want, or at least not for long. There’s always, ALWAYS one side of the equation that wants a real relationship and doesn’t have enough self-respect to demand one.

    In a way, it’s like the flip side of when a woman gives a man the Let’s Just Be Friends speech. If he capitulates, she gets what she wants– his attention and validation– but he doesn’t get what he wants: that, plus a relationship plus sex. It’s inherently uneven and founded on disrespect.

    Same deal with FWB: the (higher-Sex-Rank) partner that just wants the sex gets what they want plus the freedom to fuck other people, and the partner that secretly wants a relationship gets told, essentially, “You’re good enough to fuck on the side until I find something better, but not good enough to commit to exclusively.” And you’re fooling yourself if you think that higher-SR partner doesn’t know full well what the lower-SR partner is after and that that’s EXACTLY what they’re saying to them.

    I dunno. That’s just my opinion based on my observations of people I know personally who’ve tried to make the FWB thing work and on my one (stupid, ill-advised, and ultimately disastrous) attempt to do the same many, many years ago. Maybe there’s someone out there who’ll tell me that I’m totally wrong and their FWB arrangement is totally good and mutual and wonderful, and I’ll congratulate them for being the exception to the rule while secretly thinking that they’re full of shit. (-:

  26. Eric says:

    Firepower,

    It does confuse things some that the relationship in question is a sort of casual sexual thing, while this is a site mostly about behaviour between married people. A comment like that would have been less controversial with the crowd I ran around with back in my single days… but one of the reasons I got married was because I was sort of tired of that crowd.

    With the circle of friends my wife and I have today (and we’re not above throwing back a few shots every once in awhile), a comment like that would be a conversation stopper.

    So yes, the context is important. But if this guy is looking for a potential wife, a comment like that in *any* setting is a red flag at the very least.

  27. Jane says:

    I cannnot believe the response this is getting – calling a guy a pussy playfully is NEGGING. All around the manosphere there’s talk of men negging women to increase attraction. It’s the same thing – people are awefully high strung about this…Of course it all depends on the tone I guess, but I’m sure I’ve egged a guy on to drink with me, in this manor. It seems more like a “get drunk with me, so i can blow you later”…

    Also, what the heck is up with friends with benifits being so comon these days??? How is that different than a relationship really? I mean, I’d say my husband is my best friend who I also have sex with – and now it includes a planned future and kids, but it didn’t initaally…I mean it feels like basically saying to each other, “you know, you’re good enough to screw when I have no other options, but the second something better comes along….” I just don’t know who that sounds good to…unless maybe it’s been a really long time since something better came along….

  28. Ben says:

    @Draggin:

    I’ve been operating on the assumption that it was said with a malicious tone and not as a lighthearted goof, or else the OP wouldn’t have brought it up.

  29. Chuck says:

    I would respond to a comment like this with a smirk, giving her a slap or grab on the ass, and making a comment like “Well you’re obviously not keeping me around for my drinking ability.”

  30. Shanna says:

    Having been married for over 20 years, I have to admit I had NO idea what FWB was in yesterday’s reader comment!
    I was racking my brain trying to come up with what the acronym stood for. Y’all are going to laugh.
    “Fat-Wife-Bitch?”
    “Future-wife-blonde?”
    “Fun with Boobs”?
    “Feminist Whiney Brat?”
    I never did figure it out yesterday, but either way I thought she was so wrong in what she said. And NOBODY is worth getting alcohol poisoning over!

  31. Brian says:

    Men and women cannot be friends. Ever. Period. There is no such thing as “friends with benefits” with men and women.
    There is such a thing as a fuck buddy.
    She’s liberated, she can call a cab on her own.

  32. Athol Kay says:

    In terms of the context, it worth remembering that the Reader in question refered to his FWB in the past tense, meaning he thought his response to this little episode essentially marked the end of the FWB thing.

    My impression was that her line was delivered with some mixture of scorn and contempt. i.e., bad.

  33. Michael Maier says:

    I like these two:
    “I don’t think I want to fuck you anymore.”
    “And that folks is the difference between fuck buddy and girl friend.”

    Piss on the bitch. Drive her home and leave her there unless she apologies profusely, if not grovels.

  34. Joe Commenter says:

    I like Chuck’s answer if I want to continue the benefits part of the FWB. “with a smirk, giving her a slap or grab on the ass, and making a comment like “Well you’re obviously not keeping me around for my drinking ability.”

    My alternate for this vibe would be “What? you enjoy this shit? You can keep it”.

    Michael Maier wins if I don’t care if I fuck her again: “I don’t think I want to fuck you anymore.”

  35. AnonJohn says:

    once you get to a certain point of alpha you can smack someone down with just a little look.

    if you can’t say it with your eyes, you’re doing something wrong.

  36. ZLX1 says:

    @Jane

    I understand what you’re saying but women should not neg guys. Period. Playful negging is guy game. Hard negging when a woman is being a total bitch is guy game.

    Negging guys should never be part of girl game. It’s completely unappealing unless the guy is into being a submissive I suppose.

    You may whip up some appropriate shaming language and trot out the “fragile male ego” meme but that’s not the case.

    A guy playfully negging girl = flirting. A woman negging a man – especially in front of other men = attempted ball breaker. Even if she’s kidding around, a guy is not going to react well unless he’s a candy-ass with no respect for himself. It will be perceived by him not as playful flirting but as blatant disrespect and every guy knows, or should know, that if your woman doesn’t have respect for you and acts up in public with you being the butt of the joke – you get rid of her, sooner rather than later.

    Allow me:

    http://www.rooshv.com/american-girls-are-using-negs-now

    http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/08/03/how-to-deal-with-a-girl-gaming-you/

  37. ZLX1 says:

    Oh and just to be clear to anyone who is a little Aspie, guys should only use negs sparingly and in a flirty manner. A neg is not calling someone out publicly or crassly insulting them, nor is it attraction building to sit there and neg a woman constantly throughout a two hour date. Duh. Negs are like precision guided munitions and should be used as such for specific result.

    I talk to my sons about “teasing” girls they are flirting with. Rule of thumb I told them: If she gets truly mad or cries, you did it wrong and were being a dick. If she laughs, twirls her hair and slaps your arm – you did it right. Use sparingly.

  38. Phantom says:

    I’ve been finding “You’re cute but kind of dumb” delivered with a smile (obviously not in a mean way), especially in a fake whisper, is a GREAT neg. After they say or do something silly is a great time for it.

  39. A lot of you are overthinking it.

    There’s a fine line between not putting up with nonsense and being deeply challenged and offended by them.

    If you leave her, it should simply be because you don’t want to spend any more time with her, not because you feel hurt or offended. You should be secure enough to handle foolishness.

    You should also be bold enough to speak up when someone is out of line. A simple “excuse me?” with eye contact should be enough to make her reconsider her conduct. If you feel it’s necessary, follow up with “watch how you speak to me.” Don’t fear this. She’ll respect you. If she doesn’t, then she’s cut off instantly.

  40. Anon says:

    “A Friend With Benefits who isn’t acting like a friend, effectively demotes herself to being a rental vagina.”

    Oh my, that is funny!!!!!! It’s been a long time since I’ve laughed like that! Thank you, Sir!

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