Women Never Think A Powerful Man Is Creepy

A friend of mine has spent a year dropping from 275 lbs to 220 lbs. He didn’t announce it to anyone, he just did it. No one said much until he got to 255 lb. Not much really changed until 235 lbs. By 220 lbs though, a lot of things had suddenly started kicking in for the better. The no brainer is that his wife liked it and things are much better in the bedroom.

However he said he was almost more impressed by the reaction of other men responding to him better. Everyone treating him better at work, sales up, yada yada yada.

Once you have muscle tone and basic bulk, you turn into something far more physically dominating… just by standing there. You don’t actually have to push people around or anything, your ass kicking potential is simply self-evident. On a deep primal level, other men assess that and unconsciously submit to you. Remembering of course that unconscious social submission can as simple as being the guy that stands off to one side to let the other guy come through in a crowded room.

If other men defer to you, that makes you the Alpha Male of the Group. Which makes you get all the women of the group hot and bothered to at least some degree.

If not physical power, you have to find some kind of power for yourself. Women never think a powerful man is creepy. The may think he’s sleazy and untrustworthy, but never creepy. That being said, physical power is within the reach of every guy to at least some degree. So why not?

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Comments

  1. Flipper says:

    This is true. I don’t take fat people, super-skinny people, or smokers very seriously. I just look at fat people as gluttonous slobs. I mean really fat people not 20lbs. Super skinny people I view as insignificant people who can be brushed off. And smoker I view as lacking the brain capacity to know what they are doing is hurting them. No bigger turn off than somebody who actually harms themselves because they are too weak not to.

  2. Tank says:

    I agree with Flipper (and with Athol) here. I can’t imagine taking a fat person seriously. That may sound mean nowadays, but I don’t feel any ill will toward them. I just CAN’T take them seriously. The same applies to too-skinny folks, pudgy drinkers, smokers, and dandy hipsters. I simple can’t see them as anything other than frivilous. A man with hard-earned muscle, classical proportions (think pre-steroid era bodybuilders), clean clothes, and a decent hair cut will always cut a striking figure and leave a more favorable impression than fops, fatties, wimps, and wusses.

  3. Changed Man says:

    I can speak from experience to the truth of this post. In the past 6 months, I’ve lost over 70 lbs and 10″ on my waist. I’ve seen a profound difference in the way, not just women, but also men interact (and often defer) with me. Speaking truth to power here, the doing the MAP has countless side-benefits.

  4. Nina Lausch says:

    Hey, changed man! First, congrats on your weight loss! That’s awesome! Second, I have a couple of questions about it. I am currently losing weight and generally improving myself (letting my hair grow out and choosing more feminine clothes) and I really want to know how soon in your journey did you start to notice this difference in treatment? I guess my hamster is scared about never noticing any results and trying to make me give up and be lazy and all that, but I’ll beat it :) And also if you did anything special to keep yourself motivated about running the MAP in the beggining, when the results weren’t showing yet…
    Thank you and have a great day!

  5. Shanna says:

    The content of this post rings true – just maybe not the title. (I used to be an admin/receptionist for a CEO that was extremely creepy!)
    But thinking about it – if a guy were selling me something and he was fit, relaxed and confident, I’d be much more likely to listen to him. If a chubby guy is doing the selling, I guess I’d think in my hindbrain, “This guy doesn’t even have the self-control/knowledge to make the best of himself. How is he going to advise and help ME?”
    I’ve seen the “image projection/influence over others” in sales on the female side, too.
    I live in MaryKay cosmetics country. Many times women have tried to sell me makeup when they themselves aren’t wearing a stitch of it. Or worse, they have on creepy makeup. (Think drawn on eyebrows in a surprised fashion or really bright red lipstick,) Yeah, no.

  6. Ben says:

    This is one of the biggest and most immediately useful pieces of advice the MMSL primer gave me, and it can’t be restated often enough.

    I used to be very stubborn and Blue Pill about this one. “I’m just not a gym-going kind of guy,” I’d say. “That works for other guys, but it’s just not me. I’ll just have to find a woman who’s not into that type of guy.” It’s not that I wasn’t in shape, but the stuff I did to keep in shape was stuff like hiking and occasionally running, not anything that would build any kind of physical muscle mass.

    News flash: EVERY woman is into that type of guy. Saying the above was just about as dumb as saying, “I’m just not a tooth-brushing or shower-taking kind of guy. Any woman who goes in for all that ‘not smelling like ass’ nonsense just isn’t the woman for me.”

    Not every man has to be the pinnacle of fashion and style, but every man can benefit from a shower, a shave (or beard trim), and a fresh set of clean clothes every morning. Likewise, not every man has to be a bodybuilder and spend four hours at the gym every night, but every man can benefit from some kind of basic strength training regimen. Three twenty-minute sessions a week is enough to make a visible difference.

    I can’t think of anything else that can give you such a dramatic increase in attractiveness with so little time and effort. From a purely practical standpoint, you can’t afford not to.

  7. horseman says:

    You can spot an off duty cop or firefighter in jeans a mile away by their presence and attitude or a real career military officer…some grunts but not all. Its called command presence and they are all trained in it rigourously until it becomes a second skin.

  8. Liz says:

    “The may think he’s sleazy and untrustworthy, but never creepy. ”

    What’s the difference? (Serious question – English is not my first language.)

  9. Changed Man says:

    @Liz

    The sleazy and untrustworthy reference sounds like a description of an all alpha/no beta guy, to me.

  10. Ben says:

    @Liz:

    The way they word is used here, I’d take “untrustworthy” to mean, very literally, “not worthy of trust.” A woman can be attracted to a man and still not trust that he’s got her best interests at heart. For some women, that actually adds to the allure (although the smart ones will resist him anyway). Even if she fully intends to shoot him down at every opportunity, she might still find herself wanting to spend time around him because of that attraction.

    When someone is “creepy,” though, there’s an active repulsion. Not only doesn’t anyone want to sleep with a creepy person, they want to avoid spending time with them as much as possible.

  11. Flipper says:

    @horseman, you can also spot the off duty cop by the mustache.

  12. Rob says:

    @Flipper, Hahahaha.

  13. Firepower says:

    Power dynamics are the reason so many women are unfaithful at work.
    Work Husbands often provide every surrogate need. Every need.

    I wonder if Mafiosos can tell off-duty undercover cops by their command presence.
    It worked for Donnie Brasco.
    Most cops I know are Beta to the max, around women.

  14. Jaad says:

    @Filpper: “… And smoker I view as lacking the brain capacity to know what they are doing is hurting them”

    Not to start a debate, but you have limiting views. I smoked for 20 years, have a IQ of 140 and darn sure knew what it was doing to me. I chose to do it until I chose to not do it.

  15. Shanna says:

    @Jaad re: Flipper’s smoking comments

    I was a smoker in my teens/early 20′s. My husband was a smoker even longer. We both have high IQ’s.
    Having a high IQ and making good life choices are not the same thing.
    Smoking, as well as overeating says to me: “I am missing something inside. I need a crutch. I don’t handle stress well. ”
    Smoking is a DLV in my and all my girlfriend’s eyes. Good for you for quitting.

  16. Linanati says:

    I haven’t noticed cops having a “command presence”. I’ve noticed an arrogant jerk presence, an I’m-short-insecure-and-over-compensating presence, and an uptight, rulebound asshole presence, among other undesirable presences. I once saw a young, fat, and clueless female cop without a shred of “command presence” too.

    There are cops in my family. Trust me, the “command presence” of cops is a myth.

  17. Jane says:

    don’t insult a smoker, they’ll take you to the mat about it, but go ahead and say whatever you want about fat people…She’s sharing what image she assoicates with smoking. Everyone makes snap judgements about things. We can actively fight against them and behave against them, but some things trigger an instantanious judgement. But What shocks me is how the smoking thing was the prejudice that got a comment, despite the fact that the judments based on weight were pretty harsh.

    I happen to think the stupid conotation is unussual, but I damn well think “dirty” and right or wrong, that’s the imediate reaction – the phlem, that wet caugh, the yellow teath, the yellow fingers, that stale smell that gets on EVERYTHING, the hella black nose hairs…sorry, it’s a dirty look to me, makes me feel liike a shower…The other conotation in my mind is like lower class/trashy/poor. Which is probably directly related to living in california….

  18. Z says:

    As a heads up to the non-body builder guys out there, not all of us women like the body builder look.

    Yeah, we do want our men to be fit and healthy, like they will make good sperm and be strong enough and healthy enough to take care of the kids. Looking like you’re a few fries short of a coronary won’t do. But you don’t have to look like Mr Universe. I actually prefer the swimmer/cyclist/x-c skier body type. To me, excess muscles are creepy. I don’t even like 6 packs much.

    Creepy. Athol is right. An Alpha guy can’t be creepy. Scary, frightening, threatening, a bully … but a creep is like scary pond scum, and scum is never alpha.

  19. FeralFelis says:

    My turn-ons:
    Big guys. I’m even good with 15-20lbs over on a 6′ or taller guy.
    Have self-esteem backed by reasons to have it!
    Enjoy the power of (ie, don’t be threatened by) having a multi-talented woman of high intelligence and command presence of her own
    Monogamy
    Think and tell me I’m beautiful even though I’m not, and who loves to spend time with me and touch me.
    Tell me in plain English what you want from me/expect of me
    Adequate physical fitness to do the things we want to do together.

    Note:
    I don’t care if you have a 6pack or bulked muscles. It’s more important to me that you want sex nearly every day, are capable of making it last at least 45 minutes (unless we’re having a quickie) so I can have several orgasms, AND you stay awake long enough after we’re finished that you wouldn’t be joke material on the Tonight Show.

  20. Jane says:

    I tend to like a guy that’s a tad chubby as well, but it works better if he’s got some nice arms on him too…basically, i’d like a guy to feel BIGGER than me, that can be more buffed out or taller, or chubbier…skinny is a definate no go for me. Also, to some degree i have to say that i find the bodybuilder types a bit..boring and superficial? I, myself, have dappled in bodybuilding and actually quite enjoy it, but i know how strict the lifestyle is (a bit easier for guys i’m sure)…i gotta have a guy who will go out to eat with me and have some fun!

  21. LovelyLauren says:

    To me, a guy who is in decent shape also says that he cares about his health, and likely, probably the health of his partner/children. I wouldn’t want to be saddled to someone who is overweight and has a host of health problems because if he can’t even take care of himself, what can he take care of?

    At the same time, some guys spend a narcissistic amount of time in the gym and I want to be the pretty one in a relationship.

  22. Jehu says:

    Cops should have command presence, but most don’t, even with the command-enhancing props of uniform and visible weaponry. Someone with a fairly strong command presence can general solve most problems and make most necessary arrests without escalating the situation such that people get hurt.

  23. AnonJohn says:

    “My turn-ons:
    Big guys. I’m even good with 15-20lbs over on a 6? or taller guy.
    Have self-esteem backed by reasons to have it!
    Enjoy the power of (ie, don’t be threatened by) having a multi-talented woman of high intelligence and command presence of her own
    Monogamy
    Think and tell me I’m beautiful even though I’m not, and who loves to spend time with me and touch me.
    Tell me in plain English what you want from me/expect of me
    Adequate physical fitness to do the things we want to do together.

    Note:
    I don’t care if you have a 6pack or bulked muscles. It’s more important to me that you want sex nearly every day, are capable of making it last at least 45 minutes (unless we’re having a quickie) so I can have several orgasms, AND you stay awake long enough after we’re finished that you wouldn’t be joke material on the Tonight Show”

    Is that all?

    six figure salary too?

  24. I'm a man says:

    @FeralFelis “My turn-ons:…”
    You sound like a full time job.
    Why should a guy be this outstanding and settle for someone who isn’t even beautiful?

    Here’s what we need from you:
    - You should look fantastic in a bikini
    - Beautiful face
    - I’m even good with larger than average breasts
    - Bright personality and smile
    -Excellent job with flexible hours
    -always available for sex
    -excellent cook
    - great sense of humor
    …and no nagging so you wouldn’t be joke material for big chin Leno….is that guy still on?

  25. Dreadpiratkevin says:

    “Its called command presence and they are all trained in it rigourously until it becomes a second skin.”

    That’s something I’ve been wondering about. Can it be taught, or is it innate? General Freakly (not sure of the spelling) spoke at my daughters graduation, and I shook his hand and spoke with him after. He’s not a big guy at all, but seriously, I felt like a 4 year old boy in his presence. Not that he was at all demeaning, in fact he was exceedingly gracious and took the time to speak with me and my son for several minutes and gave my son a wonderful pep talk about earning his Eagle Scout rank. But his presence just about knocked you over. It made quite and impression on both of us, and made me want to develop a bit more of that in myself. But can it be learned? I’ve met cops that really don’t have it. Swagger and bluster, but no real presence.

  26. Liz says:

    @Jane:

    I too like the chubby guys – but the ones who look like Roman gladiators. Some serious muscle, but a good layer of fat covering it. Basically, I want a man who can eat a good meal, then carry me to the bedroom (I’m small, I’m not asking much) and have his way with me.

    From sheer anecdotal evidence, those guys get far more female attention than the male models/bodybuilders. I think part of it is that a, say, male model needs an incredibly strict lifestyle to maintain that look. Most women don’t want to live with someone like that – and they don’t want to be judged for occasionally eating carbs.

    As Z says, you don’t have to be Mr. Universe. (Does anyone here really think that?) It’s just a case of acknowledging which way your body naturally runs (skinny/lanky/muscled/chubby) and being the best possible version of that. Same as with women.

  27. FeralFelis says:

    Hmmm…reading the responses to my post was interesting.

    Are my turn-ons really expecting too much out of a man?!
    (A turn-on is what you have which makes me want sex with you all the time; isn’t that mostly why guys run the MAP?)

    Are any of the things I find sexy unreasonable desires?
    (I know not every man can be 6′ tall; I can’t be 125lbs, either. Let’s ignore that particular line for the sake of further discussion).

    There was nothing said about handsomeness or looks,except that I’m turned on by taller guys who are a little overweight (like Jane, I like to feel small, and I’m big and tallish)
    There was nothing said about earning a high salary; I don’t give a rat’s ass how much someone makes as long as he can support himself in his own desired lifestyle.
    There was nothing said about a specific personality needed (my husband, who turned me on ENORMOUSLY, had radical mood swings and could often be rather morose)
    There was nothing said about specific skills or talents; it was more about feeling good about whatever it is you are.

    I was attempting to agree with Z, that many women are NOT turned on by body-builder types.
    I was trying to elucidate the qualities (not the looks and particular talents) of a man which turns me on, and offer some encouragement that you can be VERY desirable even if your body is simply functional for what we want it to do.
    But now I’m curious if what I am hoping to find is just too much to hope for…

  28. Sara says:

    I like big guys too! I am 165 cm and 56 kg, would never date a guy who is skinnier than i am!! I like to feel like my guy is physically superior to me in terms of strength. Handy for opening jars etc ha ha

  29. AnonJohn says:

    @feral

    it is well documented in the manosphere that one of the key problems in today’s sex market place (SMP) is women’s mispricing of their own value.

    whether you realize it or not you’re beginning to show signs of exhibit the classic “436 bullet point checklist.”

    much of the disequilibrium in the marketplace (ie you being single) is due to failure to self assess. the MAP here is predicated upon the notion that you have to actually be awesome to deserve awesome.

    Are you awesome?

  30. AnonJohn says:

    @feral

    this guy summed it up perfectly:

    “Why should a guy be this outstanding and settle for someone who isn’t even beautiful?”

  31. Liz says:

    @Feral:

    As a married woman, your list got up my nose, and I’m trying to articulate why. Stay with me here.

    “Big guys. I’m even good with 15-20lbs over on a 6? or taller guy.”

    Oooh, you’ll tolerate a man who’s a whole 15lbs overweight as long as he’s at least 6 feet tall? How frakking magnanimous of you. “I’m EVEN good…” Like you’re doing him some favour.

    “Enjoy the power of (ie, don’t be threatened by) having a multi-talented woman of high intelligence and command presence of her own.”

    I’ve yet to meet a man who didn’t enjoy having an ‘er indoors, who could lighten the load. Even if he believed that a helpmeet/first mate role was more appropriate, most men want wives who can hold their own. And smart men don’t marry dumb women; in fact, almost all of the happily married couples I know have smarter wives. In essence, for men looking for wives, this isn’t even an issue.

    What makes this obnoxious for me is that it brings to mind the whine I hear from unhappily single women that “men just don’t want strong women”. Apparently, the reason they can’t get a husband is because they’re just toooooo strong and intelligent. Leaving aside the fact that it’s insulting to married women, it’s complete bullshit.

    Any woman I’ve met who spoke like this is single for a reason. It’s usually a woman who has no intention of compromising or yielding, and will rationalise any resistance to that as “well, he clearly couldn’t handle mah strength”.

    You may not be like this, for all I know. But if you’re striking a woman, with feminist leanings, as being obnoxious, you may want to change how you present yourself. It implies that you’ve been the woman I’ve described before, and had those frustrations before which, as a marriage market indicator, is right down there with children with multiple fathers, or a drug habit, in terms of desireability.

    “I don’t care if you have a 6pack or bulked muscles. It’s more important to me that you want sex nearly every day, are capable of making it last at least 45 minutes (unless we’re having a quickie) so I can have several orgasms, AND you stay awake long enough after we’re finished that you wouldn’t be joke material on the Tonight Show””

    Let’s leave aside the grating sense of magnanimity here. (Again, don’t act like you’re doing someone a favour by not caring about 6 packs. There are millions of women like that.) What exactly are you bringing to the party here?

    I get that all of this is in a conversation about what women like. But (1) you’ve gone into waaaay more detail than any of the women here and (2) you yourself admit that you’re not beautiful. Any man reading this is going to wonder why the hell they’d bother with you.

  32. I'm a man says:

    @feral
    I also wonder why you are here…there’s such vast resources for women on the internet and frankly i find most of the female comments take the conversation in a slightly different direction than i would prefer. I’m at the point where i mostly ignore the comments now and have started looking for other male resources on the net. I want a male perspective and hear from other men.

    Athol says he now has more female reader than men. I wonder what that means for the future of his books and website.

  33. Wendy says:

    “Athol says he now has more female reader than men. I wonder what that means for the future of his books and website.”

    At least Athol has the guts to find out and disclose who his readership is. How many other websites do that? I see a pretty good number of regular male commenters here. If you don’t like the direction a particular conversation is taking, perhaps you could move the direction of the conversation in an articulate manner?

    @Feral: not trying to be catty at all, you have contributed many good comments before, but that comment does come across as demanding, and I think Liz did a good job of pointing out how it was perceived by some of us.

  34. Jane says:

    Atol has said many times: she can’t control what she’s attracted to. And I must say, most of the things on her list are things that are a part of the MAP. Take care of yourself, be confident, and even though she didn’t explicitly state it, earning a decent living is ABSOLUTELY on there. I know that gets people’s feather’s ruffled, cause we’d all like to believe that money doesn’t matter, but there are honestly some points where it DOES. No woman, no mater how much SHE makes, wants to support some 40 year old man child. It comes with the feeling like a team stuff. You don’t want to be doing all the work, you need some distribution of labor or you’ll grow resentful. I don’t want to work 20 hours of overtime a week so that we can go on vaction if my husband sits at home every day playing xbox – he doesn’t need a vacation! That doesn’t mean that he has to make 6 figures, or that he even has to make more than me, but he does have to work. Having a job is genearlly part of the expectations…past that, every woman is going to have some slightly different cut offs.

    As to the coments about why feral is here. I can’t speak for her, but I’ll speak for myself. I left my husband after 11 years after a brief foray into swinging. I spent 6-8 months going to therapy (individual, my husband refused to attend couples because in his mind, the issue was mine) trying to figure out my feelings. I hated myself for how I felt. Although the therapy helped me come to some PEACE about what I felt, I was never able to get a good handle on the “how/why did this happen” part of things. I wanted desparately to create some insurance against it happening again in my second marriage, so I began reading and reading and researching about succussful relationships and attraction etc. I stumbled upon this blog because someone mentioned it in another article i was reading. And that’s when i had me “a-ha!” moment. All of a sudden, my past relationship came into persective! And here were the instructions about how to protect my current relationship!

    I find Atol’s approach to be wonderfully refreshing. He is able to discect things from a really logical point of view, mixing many different theories into one solid set of reasoning, that just makes a lot of sence. And he does so in a way that is in support of marriage. A lot of stuff on attraction argues in a way that basically says that marriage isn’t important. To me, it is VITALLY important. A lot of stuf on relationships ignors how to create attraction. To me, attraction is VITALLY important. So this multifacited approach fits me well. Atol is also a great writer and I enjoy reading, even if a particular topic doesn’t interest me. It’s always lighthearted and honest even when the topics are often painful and I honestly FEEL like he wants to help people improve their marriage as opposed to make a ton of money. But as the saying goes – do what you love and the money will follow, and I’m thrilled to hear that he’s achieved the latter as well. I also enjoy the comments from other readers which generally help me gain insight into myself and human behavior in general. I think both men and women contribute to that for me.

  35. Ben says:

    @feral:

    Without going into quite as much detail as Liz, I’ll just say that I thought that comment wandered rather far afield. It’s one thing to chime in about the level of muscularity that women find attractive in a man with personal examples. That’s on-topic. The sort of bullet list you gave seems more appropriate for a personal ad (followed, ideally, with a bullet list of what you bring to the table to rate such a specimen of manliness.).

  36. MCM says:

    Personally I enjoy the balance of male and female comments on this site. Yeah, it’s a book for men and a website for men but it’s clearly stated that women are reading too and there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, I find it quite encouraging when a female commentor confirms “yeah, that does work.” Having that perspective has been very valuable.

  37. Angeline says:

    Thank you Liz, for the elegant puncturing of that magic balloon. I was so turned off by that comment I just closed the page. 15-20 pounds? *45* minutes? Oh, and be 6′ tall. Good grief, woman.

    Back to the topic, my man is a big fellow (muscly, but also well-padded), which does tend to create waves. Occasionally though, he also becomes a target for someone with a bone to pick – the ‘big, imposing man’ presence can swing both ways. Sometimes we’ll go to the pub down the street, and realize things don’t feel right, and walk right back out. One of the things he wanted to find out about me early on was whether I was one of those “Let’s you and him fight” kind of people (Great book, long out of print – “Games People Play”). He’d been with women who liked to incite that kind of trouble before. As a long-time bartender who is pretty good at reading a room, I laid that fear to rest without knowing I was being tested – by murmuring on several occasions that the ambience was getting ugly, and we should probably leave.

  38. Angeline says:

    Oh, and I forgot to say, that his impetus to always keep some muscle tone was his complete transformation as a teenager from short, pudgy fellow who had a near-fatal disease, who came back to his school a year later with a good 6 inches in height and new body from running, lifting weights to get healthy. The reactions he got both amused him and made him a little cynical (which probably just served to make his female classmates pursue him even harder). His brush with death gave him a perspective and maturity not often found in teens, and he cut quite a swath.

  39. Rachael says:

    LovelyLauren
    “At the same time, some guys spend a narcissistic amount of time in the gym and I want to be the pretty one in a relationship”
    Bahahaha. Tru Dat.

  40. None says:

    NOw I understand what happened with the first woman I dated. I had read a book on dating which said to pay all possible attention to her. Didn’t work, However, when I heard women talk about other guys doing that they thought it was really creepy. She just told me that she wasn’t interested in getting married. (One date, no kiss, I preferred the woman I had dated the night before.) So yes, if you have a high SMV, she won’t think it is creepy.

  41. A reader says:

    Evo psych says that musculature / leanness / symmetry are attractive because they signal high testosterone, which implies a good immune system, aggressive personality, horniness, etc. I suspect that women intuit that “narcissistic amount of time in the gym”** means the guy doesn’t have the goods genetically. It’s a ‘faked’ alpha trait, analogous to Roissy’s point for women about how much your facial beauty is improved by makeup. (He may be compensating for a small dick, to boot.)

    ** mentioned universally as a negative IME — whereas I don’t hear the same thing about too much time spent on typically male pursuits like sports, cars, etc. Women may not get the appeal of those, but they aren’t directly unattractive.

  42. Jennifer 6 says:

    Wrongo: I find Rollo very creepy, and Voldemort too.

  43. Geek says:

    I like @feral’s list.
    How can a guy that is not THAT outstanding ever get laid? Sounds like she’s looking for an Alpha with a few Beta traits. Do the MAP and you too can have a woman who wants the sex!

    Odd how when Athol tells you to become physically fit and cater to a woman’s body’s wants in return for more sex it’s a-ok, but when a woman tells you she’d like same? Entitled bitch!

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