I See Alpha / Beta Everywhere

Athol:  So I got the TSA patdown today, dude very careful to try and start explaining to a patdown virgin what was about to happen to me. I just cut him off with blunt “I’m a nurse just do it.” and gave him direct eye contact. He looked nervous and unsure of himself after that lol. Anyway, one minute full body massage, surprisingly relaxing. Three testicle jostles. I thought I was at the Men’s Warehouse.

Anyway, zonked from a day of travel, so here’s a reader story…

Reader:  Hi Athol, I’ve read your blog from front to back. Everything on it has struck a nerve.

I started out with a vague feeling that my wife might be cheating (she wasn’t) which lead me to the DeadBedrooms sub-reddit on reddit. Comments in one of the posts there lead me to MMSL. I’m glad I followed it: MMSL and Game are (slowly) turning my marriage around.

Everything has been great in my 15-year marriage except for the sex. After reading your blog I could see every mistake I’ve made in our relationship, and why being nicer to her didn’t make her respond the way I thought it would. Why giving her flowers when she was cranky with me only made her crankier (too much Beta). Why helping more around the house didn’t lead to her feeling more amorous (although she did appreciate it). With just some slight nudges using game (adding more Alpha) our relationship is getting better. Within the first 24 hours my wife had asked me to sit on the sofa next to her to cuddle, sought me out for a kiss, and told me she loves me: things that she almost never does. Every time I think I’m wasting my time following the advice on MMSL, she turns around and responds in a way that you’ve predicted. She’s been much more affectionate in the past month since I started this, and I have high hopes for more improvements in the future.

I’ve been reading everything I could about game and have even begun (secretly) to read my wife’s romance novels. Do yourself a favor: If your wife reads romance novels then read some of them yourself. They’re textbook examples of what women want (it seems so obvious now). If she reads very many, it’s likely you’ll be able to discern the type of man that turns her on.

It might just be confirmation bias, but now that I see the whole Alpha/Beta theory written out, I see it everywhere. When I see someone complaining that their SO doesn’t want them, I now immediately wonder what they’ve done to MAKE their SO want them. If your woman isn’t into you, it’s not their fault, it’s yours: you aren’t attractive enough. Become more attractive! Work on your displays of high value: hit the gym, become more confident, and/or earn more money.

The latest example that I’ve run across of the Alpha/Beta theory was when my teenage daughter had a slumber party recently, and my wife (who is unaware of Game concepts) overheard the girls talking about the boys in their school. What struck me about the conversation that she relayed to me was that the girls were categorizing the boys into two groups: “Hot & Mean” and “Not-hot & Nice.” There couldn’t be a better example of the Alpha/Beta theory, as interpreted by 13 year old girls. My eyes are open. Now I have to figure out how to use this new found knowledge to help my daughter find a boy who is both “Hot & Nice” and proper husband material (eventually, right now I’m happy that she’s sticking with slumber parties).

Thank you for writing the blog! I wish you continued success!

Athol:  Thanks. I think it’s interesting to see how the 13-year-old girls react to what attracts them. At 13 they simply have no awareness of what would make a good long term partner, so they don’t consider Beta Traits in a boy at all. All they react to is the pure Alpha display of the boys. The same sort of thing that attracts girls to boys, attracts women to men. Pay attention to that and add enough Beta to be a viable long term partner and you’re golden.


  1. OK, but why is this information so absent from popular culture? Why don’t the writers of teen comedies have the girls say this kind of thing? Perhaps they do, and I have not noticed. Or they don’t because they are clueless themselves (although you would think writers would know about real people)? Or is is ideological – they know but they won’t put in the script or the novel because it would be anti-feminist?

  2. @David…maybe it’s a combo of people not knowing and brainwashing from those in the know. Remember that all these problems with women seemed to start after the feminists got going on the warpath. Back in the “bad old days” men could be Alphas without threat.

    I too have noticed Alpha works with women even if you aren’t romantically involved with them. I make what might be considered an unpopular decision and stand by it at work and they like it.

  3. So, Athol, you’re recommending I make myself attractive to 13-year old girls, right? Check. I’ll head down to the schoolyard this afternoon and send back a field report. Can you be my one phone call?

    You need to check with your support staff before you use the computer at the group home.

  4. I agree. I was watching a show last night where a Chef is planning a wedding to a Professional Wrestler. Chef is very alpha. And this wrestler was eating out of his hand. My wife is watching it with me and I almost broke it down for her, but decided not to. She doesn’t need to know the guts of what is happening there. But it is obvious everywhere you look.

  5. Highlander says:

    The reason you don’t see more of it in movies and the media is because it does not appeal to hamsters and mangina’s who are the main consumers of such dreck ;~) Neither one wants to believe our basic biological imperatives are what drives us, so “Love conquers all” is trotted out over and over again. The girl gets her dark romance with Lance ( she generally get a good dose of the bad boy first ;~) but realizes in the end that she”s madly in love with Beta Bob ( in real life she’s settled for second best in her mind). Movie over, everyone goes home wondering what they did wrong……..

  6. I had no idea there were so many forums that talked about sex before I came across this blog and your forum.

  7. RedPillNewb says:

    I would first like to note that the TSA are a bunch of pansies who can’t give a proper patdown to save their own lives. If you would like to experience a real search I know a number of jail deputies.

    Second, social dominance games are EVERYWHERE. And actually, I get substantial mileage out of refusing to play them. While you’re over there trying to decide who is the biggest monkey, I’m going to hang out over here kicking everyone’s ass because I’m a damn hyena, and I eat monkeys.

  8. @Flipper Robert Irvine? Oh yeah… He’s got it. I can’t believe Gail gave him full reign to plan the whole wedding, but man, did he pull that off in an alpha way. And he’s got a great mix of beta with her as well. Loved the show.

  9. @RedPillNewb: social dominance games are EVERYWHERE. And actually, I get substantial mileage out of refusing to play them

    Ha! But that’s just your hamster reducing the psychic pain of losing the game by rationalizing that you’re “above” us players mired in the game! I know this particular Beta conceit all too well. Sorry, there is no escape other than the path offered by Jesus and Buddha. And you know they weren’t getting laid.

    Sometimes I’m tempted to resent my parents for not teaching me SHIT about how life really works. But in fairness to them, Betas didn’t really need to know before women went feral in the ’70s.

  10. Refusing to play the game??? The game is fun.

    I’m having much more fun playing it now that I know the rules to it.

  11. What about omegas? Do we see them everywhere? Or are they “below” you players mired in the game? I humbly submit that, if you are in the small group of people who cannot possibly win the game no matter what, that not playing the game and focusing on other outlets for satisfaction in life should be given serious consideration.

  12. A lot of people actually ‘see’ status games, which is what the alpha/beta thing actually is for men. I’ve stumbled upon the concepts both in theatre (Impro by Keith Johnstone, about how adding status to theatre suddenly made it believable and fun), sociology/social studies (Behaviour of groups), Biology (Pecking orders with animals), sales, etc..
    However, these are generally practiced in very specific settings, without being applied to your own life. For me, the biggest part of the red pill was understanding what I bring to the table outside of being a “nice person”. This is status, the feel of security, etc..

    And they truly are everywhere, from drunken dickheads talking too loudly to ‘dominate’ the group, insecure people catering to a high-status person in hope of getting security and approval, it’s just a basic human module that is ‘always-on’. You can’t not perceive status, you can just learn to become aware of it and ‘act’ it better, with the whole fake it till you make it move.

  13. RedPillNewb says:

    Ha! But that’s just your hamster reducing the psychic pain of losing the game by rationalizing that you’re “above” us players mired in the game!

    Nope. It’s me defining “winning” in a focused way apart from status within particular groups. I “win” if you’re in handcuffs. Whether or not your girlfriend wants to blow me (eeeeewwww!), or you spend the whole time whining about how I’m a pussy for not fighting you “fair.” I “win” if you make a damaging admission on the record. Whether or not I get it by acting exceedingly beta and tolerating your verbal abuse. I “win” if some policy change I wish to see is implemented. Whether I have my name on it or not. I “win” if the judge agrees with me, whether or not I was “aggressive” enough by someon else’s notion of what I should be doing. And so on.

    You can’t escape all status games (we hyenas have our own heirarchy), but you don’t need to play them by the rules other people are using. Some guy plans to kick my ass in the Octagon tomorrow? Fine, I’ll shoot him in his bed tonight. I don’t win status with MMA fans, but I do avoid an ass-kicking.

    In addition, there are plenty of status heirarchies I genuinly don’t give a shit about (ooohhh, some gangbanger thinks I’m a loser! My ego will never recover!), so I’m totally free to do what I want with respect to those people without regard to my social status with them. To the extent that they are stuck trying to dominate me by their rules, they lose. Because I don’t play by their rules.

    None of this gets me laid, but it does get the job done and make for good stories, which might someday get me laid.

  14. I was interested to see the whole Alpha/Beta dynamic played out in light/modern romance novels (e.g., Robyn Carr, Carly Phillips), once I knew to look for it. (I don’t know if other kinds of romance novels feature the same dynamic, but I wouldn’t be surprised.) Now that I can see it, I’m amazed so many people (including me) remain clueless about male-female relationships for so long. Romance novels are wildly popular, and the Alpha/Beta balance that many people are looking for is laid out clearly in many of them, but we continue on in behavior patterns that make everyone unhappy. (I know that people can’t base real-life relationships on romance novels, but it’s interesting to me that the dynamic so many people are looking for is so obvious in many of them.)

  15. Eric Ventura says:

    “OK, but why is this information so absent from popular culture? Why don’t the writers of teen comedies have the girls say this kind of thing? Perhaps they do, and I have not noticed. Or they don’t because they are clueless themselves (although you would think writers would know about real people)? Or is is ideological – they know but they won’t put in the script or the novel because it would be anti-feminist?”

    The Reason they don’t have teen girls saying these things is because it wouldn’t be realisitic. Teen girls don’t have this kind of awareness about what makes them tick. Hell, most Adult MEN don’t have this awareness about women so it would be absurd to portray a child this way.

  16. The problem with “Hot and Nice” is you get hot by resisting the teacher’s authority, but you don’t get ahead that way. (Especially now, back int he 60’s and 70’s testing determined colleg entrance. so you didn’t need teachers approval, but now tests are much less important, so getting ahead requires good behavior.)

  17. Message received. I’m usually a bastard now, consider women’s concerns second to my own, and make sure women measure up to my standards.

    I don’t sweat what’s right, cause that’s not profitable.

    Oh yeah, and I exploit and manipulate women with a clear conscience. Its most enjoyable when they don’t understand this is happening. AT least I do now.

    Morality’s a bitch. Nice guy gone.

    Here’s the real irony— you’ll never see me coming. This really works, and women have chosen it.

  18. First of all I commend you for the way you alpha’ed that TSA agent. I’m skeered to fly anywhere because I don’t want anyone touching my junk. Ok, I take that back. I can handle a doctor touching my junk. I don’t want someone who looks like they might also work part-time at a fast food place touching my junk. (Do girls even call it junk? Whatevs, y’all know what I mean!) I’ve been avoiding flying for a couple years because of this.

    OH the older romance novels are the best to read. They go for a pretty penny on ebay if they’re pre 1990’s, I’ve heard. Those are the ones that contain the mega-alphas that force themselves on the main character in the first sex scene and she says no, but really means “Yes!” because she’s loved him all along, even though he’s a cad.
    My mom had some…hmmm – maybe I should sell them on ebay! :)

  19. Yes, romantic novels are an exception. My wife has read a couple, and I have read them too. They are good for understanding women. But you won’t see this kind of dynamic in a modern Hollywood Rom Com. I do remember some more honest attitudes in old sitcoms; by old I mean from the 1960s and 1970s.

    The alphas in romance novels tend to be either very rich men or doctors. Or both. One I saw was actually titled The Billionaire Doctor. Sometimes too the alphas are Italians or Greeks, who are “allowed” to be more retrograde, chauvinistic and exciting.

  20. Something that bothers me about the whole Alpha/Beta concept is that it is mistaken for the actual process when it is really a description of the many ways one presents oneself to others. It’s not a bad idea to buy your wife flowers when she is cranky because it “is beta” but because it reinforces her crankiness. It could be alpha if you buy her flowers because you know she’s having a bad day and you want to do something nice – just because you want to and not to make her like you. Beta behavior is anything that results in you putting aside your beliefs/feelings/morals/desires/whatever just to placate the other person when they are unhappy/upset/in a negative emotional state. What makes it Alpha or Beta is how you do what you do not what you do.

  21. @Wrynn: That’s not really the definition of Beta that Athol uses here. His definition is anything that’s comfort building in a relationship. Beta isn’t a bad thing if it’s included next to a healthy dose of alpha.

  22. @RedPillWifey I was probably reading a bit of myself into the original post. I understand how Athol uses the term and think I understand why but it didn’t seem like the original emailer did. I guess I was thinking back to my first days after taking the Red Pill and realizing how much beta I had in my life and remember thinking that the point was to be as alpha as possible (by that I mean do whatever I want with no real consideration of the consequences other than how much does my behavior benefit me.) I was angry and feeling taken advantage of. I’ve since learned that’s not what the Red Pill is about with MMSL really helping out. For people new to the Red Pill it can be difficult to see past that anger to realize that Beta behaviors are not always “bad.” Once again, it’s why you do it that counts. I was just thinking that there might be a better term to use for the new people who are still in the anger stage and think that they should never submit to their wife’s demands.

  23. Beta behaviors are only bad if that’s the only game you have just like being only alpha is bad. Nobody likes to be taken advantage of either way.

    I never really saw giving gifts as a good way to change a woman’s mood anyway. I would think giving gifts just because you want to is a better attitude to have.

    And I would definitely not give flowers to say I’m sorry for a wrong. That’s like saying you are buying her forgiveness.

  24. Joe Commenter says:

    I’ve been training my wife to nag me less. Today she was annoyed that the kitchen was messy and had paper work strewn all about. Instead of nagging me to clean it, she just took care of it while I was out.

    I rewarded this positive behavior by cleaning the bathroom while she was out of the house. I then connected the dots for her by telling her why I had cleaned the bathroom without her asking me to.

    I don’t care if it’s alpha or beta. I reward good behavior.

  25. @RedPillNewb: There’s a book that might help with a lot of things, called “Keeping the Peace: Mindfulness and Public Service”, ISBN 1888375485. It’s written primarily for cops, (but also good for others who deal with the more difficult portions of the general public), and is all about the anger, stress, and frustration that builds up and what to do about it so it doesn’t toxify your life. (I mean, seriously, why be a hyena when you can be a lion? Lions get laid! :)

  26. So, if she’s having a bad day, go ahead and buy her flowers, but not if she takes her bad day out on you.

  27. Athol, I’m a red pill woman. I stumbled across the site for really no good reason. My marriage is strong and healthy. We’ve always had a captain/first officer relationship even though it was never explicitly stated. My husband is a good leader, and I’m a reasonably smart and capable first officer. We are each others firsts and have been together since high school.

    Anyway, I write because of my best friend. She’s always been terribly jealous of me because men seem to love me. It’s not because I’m exceptionally beautiful, but I’m fairly pretty and men just feel really comfortable around me. I’ve only ever really been with my husband but I’ve had countless opportunities from other men. She has been witness to this but more importantly….. I managed to find a man who wanted to lay his life down for me. I want her to find the same happiness. It’s just that she does EVERYTHING wrong. She has sex with men on the first date almost every time. She states that she is “using them as much as they are using her,” but I know she’s lying. I know it hurts her that they never call again except for another booty call. I try to tell her that men enjoy the chase. I try to casually give her red pill understanding but she’s so feminist brain washed that she can’t get it. She really thinks men will respect her for being “sexually adventurous.” She also comes across as fake…like a chameleon. Years ago she was very anti-sports but after I met my husband through our mutual appreciation of football, she became the world’s biggest super fan ever. She reads the sports pages and parrots facts in front of any man she wants to date. It’s just so phony. The problem is that I can’t just tell her these things because she is jealous and gets offended easily. Is there any hope for a girl like her? She’s probably a 5 on attractiveness but I think men feel uncomfortable around her. Come on guys! Help me help my poor lost friend. She’s a good person but so misguided.

  28. @Joe Commenter

    I’ve been training my husband to make less of a mess. He annoys me by leaving his shit all over the house, like he expects me to clean it. Instead of nagging him to clean it, I collect it in a big box while he’s not at home.

    I connect the dots for him by telling him that if he has so much stuff that he can’t keep it tidy, there must be too much of it. Then I tell him how much the salvation army will appreciate his donation.

  29. Damn the Torpedoes says:

    @someguy, I don’t think @RedPillNewb is as much of a ‘hyena’ as he is an efficiency expert. He knows the dominance games that people play and then uses the Ultimate Alpha (Govt) or an Equalizer (“Fine, I’ll shoot him in his bed tonight. “) to ensure victory.

    He’s not an alpha, he’s a guy who preys on alphas.


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