What Exactly Is A Red Pill Woman?

GMAC asked in passing on Facebook today… “So what is a Red Pill Woman?” in response to someone I didn’t know describing herself as a “Red Pill Woman.” I have to say it’s a great question, I’ve written a lot about Girl Game and Sexy Wives for a long time now, but never actually thought to define what the idealized Red Pill woman is like.

Anyway… let’s have a crack at it.

(1)  Understands that physical appearance and her looks are what attracts men’s sexual interest. She stays in shape and while every waking minute she may not be dressed to the nines, neither does she get mistaken for a slob. She “looks good for [insert age]”

(2)  Understands that all her skills, effort, kindness, intelligence and “inner beauty” et al, is what creates relationship comfort and makes her someone capable of having a functional relationship with.

(3)  Understands that what she does with her vagina always has some sort of consequence.

(4)  Understands that there is a sexual marketplace, and that women have an earlier peak of sexual desirability than men do. That the point (1) stuff comes very easily to young women, and that the point (2) and (3) stuff pays off over the longer term.

(5)  Understands that men are the gatekeepers of commitment and that committed men place extreme value on sexual loyalty.

(6)  Doesn’t need a man to save her from her own folly. Will not tolerate a relationship with a man that requires her to save him from his folly.

(7)  Is aware of her own sexuality and understands what in a man attracts her and turns her on. Namely hypergamy, Alpha Traits, why she may Fitness Test and so on.

(8)  Can delay gratification. Can pass on someone or something that is fun for now, but painful later on.

(9)  Can articulate things that she did wrong in prior relationships. Even if the guy was clearly the greater cause of relationship failure, she can acknowledge things she could have done better, or differently. She can think consciously about her relationships, rather than simply follow her emotions from moment to moment. Has a learning curve.

(10)  Understands that relationships are not static, that effort and intention to maintain them is an ongoing requirement. That while she can reasonably expect the man to take the lead, that doesn’t mean he’s the sled dog and she can curl up and take a nap on the sleigh.

(11)  Expresses genuine relationship discontent, clearly and directly, allowing time to correct the relationship issue. Does not complain to everyone else but her husband, does not act out instead of addressing problems, does not plan and/or execute an exit strategy before stating her discontent.

(12)  Lets go of resentment for relationship issues that are now resolved.

(13)  Understands that divorce sucks and is more akin to getting treatment for cancer than having cosmetic surgery.

(14)  Likes men in a general sense for who they are and what they do, rather than detesting all men in general and making an exception for the tiny few in her nuclear family.

(15)  Understands the risks both men and women take in having serious relationships, and is willing to negotiate ways to verify trustworthiness in each other. Sees doing this as evidence of true commitment rather than an insulting invasion of privacy.

(16)  With her chosen partner, is deeply and passionately sexual.

(17)  Is aware of her own personal kink and can communicate her sexual desires. Takes responsibility for receiving her own sexual pleasure.

(18)  Has a sense of humor.

(19)  Respects the boundaries of other peoples relationships and doesn’t attempt to mate poach.

(20)  Doesn’t keep the Red Pill a secret from those that need it.

 

As I write that, 90% of it seems to fairly directly apply to men as well as women. And for what it’s worth, these women really do exist. Maybe not in vast numbers, but neither do they ride on unicorns or speak elvish. There’s quite a few on the forum.

 

Trinity: My name’s Trinity.

Neo: *The* Trinity? Who cracked the IRS d-base?

Trinity: That was a long time ago.

Neo: Jesus…

Trinity: What?

Neo: I just thought… you were a guy.

Trinity: Most guys do

 

Comments

  1. (21) Understands that current society/public opinion, the vast majority of churches, and almost all laws, courts and government agencies dealing with families are all biased heavily against men, and that until the incentives and disincentives return to a more balanced state, men are completely justified in being gun-shy and avoiding commitment and other entanglements as much as possible.

    Corollary to (21): Appreciates the men, especially informed (red pill) men, who are willing to take the chance at a relationship despite the above, and goes out of her way to prevent them from being taken advantage of, and to publicly denounce those who do take advantage of them.

  2. Then I must have never met that type of woman. I’m in love with the idea of this woman you presented. Maybe that’s why most of the ladies I’ve come across have not impressed me at all.

  3. This is a great complement to Susan’s latest post, 25 ways to get a boyfriend:

    http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2012/08/09/relationshipstrategies/25-politically-incorrect-but-effective-ways-to-make-him-your-boyfriend/

    I think it’s interesting that 4 out of 25 points on Susan’s list had to do with sexuality, while your list had 7 out of 20 dealing with sexuality. Clearly men place a higher priority on sex, another Red Pill nugget.

  4. Remember that the red pill is a metaphor for “awareness of the truth (i.e., the real situation)”.

    What Athol has described above is by and large a Traditional Woman. which is of course a Good Thing, but not necessarily a Red Pill Woman. A true red pill woman is one who is also aware of the matrix, acknowledges it, withstands its temptations, and if needed, is also willing to help fight against it. Hence the (21) and corollary added above.

  5. I’ve got to be honest and say I struggled with that list of Susan’s when I read it a few days back. It felt creepy to me. I had to wonder if the proto girlfriend had any personality of her own. Trying too hard to be a girlfriend by molding herself to the guy. I had a girlfriend just like that list and she turned out to be the most Batshit Crazy of all my girlfriends. Quite frightening at the end.

    If you want to be someones serious girlfriend, act like wife material. Look pretty, hold a job, keep your apartment clean, be able to hold a conversation, have a personality that someone could stand 40+ years with. Have a low partner count.

    I dunno maybe that’s just me. I do like HUS but I got the Heebie Jeebies reading that one. It’s like the character Rose on Two and a Half Men.

  6. Agree! I got the same creepy feeling from that list. Stepford Girlfriend!

    Reminded me of this:
    http://cubiclebot.com/pictures/the-best-of-creepy-obsessive-girlfriend-image/

    Does anyone REALLY want their mate to be nauseatingly perfect and worshipful of everything you do, say, think? I want to be with an imperfect human, not a droid.

  7. @ Athol Kay

    The Heebie-jeebies come from the fact that Susan Walsh is writing for girls trying to achieve a goal – help young chicks get the most out of their youth and beauty. Nothing wrong with that – you’re doing the same for married dudes. But it can be disconcerting for a guy, especially a guy like me in the target market of that min-maxing. Girls who act like that rather than making it a part of themselves end up as psycho girlfriend and ex-wives.

    And yeah, basically a red-pill woman is one in touch with reality. I believe they exist, I just haven’t dated one yet. Or met one who wasn’t already married. Must be looking in the wrong places. But you can really blow a girl’s mind with #5, that men are the gatekeepers of commitment. Most single girls have never thought in those terms.

  8. Great post Athol. A woman being sure of who she is… comfortable in her own skin and aware of the beauty of her femininity is extraordinarily attractive.

    (11) Expresses genuine relationship discontent, clearly and directly, allowing time to correct the relationship issue. Does not complain to everyone else but her husband

    Spot on. I’ve written a post about this, to be published soon.

  9. LongLostFriend says:

    Great list.

    I concur with the idea behind BlackCat’s addendum, too: a Red Pill woman realizes that “marriage 2.0″ is not a situation that a wise man will get into, except with a woman who unquestionably demonstrates loyalty and respect for her man. Therefore, loyalty and respect will be hallmarks of her character.

  10. you can really blow a girl’s mind with #5, that men are the gatekeepers of commitment. Most single girls have never thought in those terms.

    This is because modern, socially conditioned (feminized) men give away commitment too easily. Contrast what men used to demand in a wife (and what common wisdom said not to touch with a ten-foot pole), as opposed to what they will willingly accept today.

    Like the good/bad lock analogy for a woman’s chastity, there is also a good/bad gate analogy for men.

    Gates are meant to control access; to keep undesirables out.
    A gate (man) that will open (commit) easily to anyone, is not a good gate.

    Just as feminism spawned Game/PUA, so has men’s bad gatekeeping enabled feminism to continue- no, thrive.

  11. Great list. I hope I am a true red-pill gal now. I think everything on the list does match my thinking and actions.

    I wasn’t raised a red-piller. In fact, based on my childhood I should have become a fem-nazi. However I never embraced feminism. They just always seemed so angry! I like men too much to be accepted into that club. (Also, now that I’m a SAHM, they really wouldn’t have me! ha)

    The whole idea on HUS of becoming whatever your boyfriend wants to see, seems dishonest and unsustainable. My husband wouldn’t like that anyway. He loves it that I have hobbies and skills that are unique from his.
    In fact, we would have NEVER been paired up on a computer dating site. We don’t have any of the same hobbies or even like the same music. However, I am very attracted to him. I would not be attracted to a male version of myself at all!

  12. Man, I need to find where these kind of women live/work/hang out in the Chicago area. The only times any I’ve talked to has known of hypergamy, they’ve exploded on me with, “If hypergamy exists for women, it MUST exist for men.”

    Equal doesn’t equal exactly the same. The search for red pill women continues

  13. Lot’s of women wouldn’t or couldn’t deal with nos 7 and 17 if you put a gun to there heads. How do you deal with that?

  14. This is because modern, socially conditioned (feminized) men give away commitment too easily.

    Eesh. Yep. That nasty call to man up (translation: to drop your manhood and except what women are, don’t you dare try to change them!) Then, low and behold, the women they marry have even less respect for them than originally. It’s a time-bomb.

  15. “The whole idea on HUS of becoming whatever your boyfriend wants to see, seems dishonest and unsustainable. My husband wouldn’t like that anyway. He loves it that I have hobbies and skills that are unique from his.”

    No it is not about becoming whatever your boyfriend wants to see, at all!

    It’s about striking a balance. It’s about teaching young women that it is not just all about them!.

    You know, just showing up and the guy will be all over you like a rash çause you are such a Princess!!!

    “If you want to be someones serious girlfriend, act like wife material. Look pretty, hold a job, keep your apartment clean, be able to hold a conversation, have a personality that someone could stand 40+ years with. Have a low partner count.”

    Yes, yes, all true Athol.

    However Susan is aiming at the College kids market. Not in the same ballpark, mate.

    If you talk that kind of stuff to college kids it just goes over like a lead balloon and you come across as a remonstrating Dad kinda type. :D

    Horses for courses.. You are both appealing to different demographics, really.

    And you are both making successful inroads in your target market.

    Susan is about educating young women.Helping them to understand what men want.. Many of these women have no clue as to what makes a successful relationship.

  16. Highlander says:

    While I’ve met women with some of these qualities in my life, never one with more than about a 1/3 of them. Some gain them as time goes on, others remain static where they were at 18. I don’t worry about it anymore, realizing everything is temporary, particularly the love of a women.

  17. Athol,

    So, when are you writing the book you want your teenage kids to read about relationships?

    Chop, chop, my kids are growing up fast and I expect you to have it ready for them

  18. Woah! I have much more in common with her than I’d rather, when did I lose my sweet innocence?

  19. Oh, yeah, I have definitely become a RPW (with the exception of maybe 1 item which I’m working on). Your blog has helped me tremendously in this, and also I grew up with 4 brothers and have 4 sons of my own, so that probably influenced me.

    I’m with pdwalker…..chop, chop, my boys are getting older.

  20. Is it really all that important for a woman to be able to identify these traits or is it more important that she just do them? I think that the Red Pill is for those of us who have been misled to think that our natural impulses and desires are incorrect and inappropriate. We need to see that what we’ve been taught is not reality and then learn to live naturally with our new understanding of what reality is. The goal is to make it second nature and live according to who you really are instead of being subservient and allowing other people to control your life. If the woman you are with doesn’t have to go through the same emotional struggle that we went through (feeling like something is wrong then eventually realizing it’s your identity that’s wrong – that’s pretty painful stuff, at least for me it was) to have a happier existence then all the better. You don’t need to have a moment of awakening to be more true to yourself if you have someone who already has showing you the way.

    To borrow your metaphor Athol, it’s the Pilot’s role to direct where the plane is going. If you meet a woman who you get along with, meets some of the above traits, and shows a desire to meet your needs as her husband then you can gradually shape her behavior to include the whole list. She doesn’t have to be consciously aware of them to do them just like I don’t have to be aware of using the brake in my car to stop. I’ve learned to step on the brake to stop when I want to stop. I don’t consciously think “now how do I do this?” If you meet a woman who wants to do what she needs to in order make you happy then you can tell or show her what you want and she will learn and do it with exuberance.

  21. My tablet wouldn’t let me write anymore…

    To summarize my point…it’s more important that the woman you choose to be with wants to have the traits on the list (thus demonstrating a desire to make you happy) than already has them.

  22. Kathy said:
    “No it is not about becoming whatever your boyfriend wants to see, at all!
    It’s about striking a balance. It’s about teaching young women that it is not just all about them!.
    You know, just showing up and the guy will be all over you like a rash çause you are such a Princess!”

    You are right that there is nothing wrong with teaching young women to be less self-centered and more into their man. The main reason it felt dishonest was I never got the impression the author was suggesting you should do this forever. Rather, just long enough to lure ‘em in and hook ‘em – similar to “The Rules” book written for girls. But I could be mistaken.

  23. Shanna

    The main reason it felt dishonest was I never got the impression the author was suggesting you should do this forever. Rather, just long enough to lure ‘em in and hook ‘em – similar to “The Rules” book written for girls. But I could be mistaken.

    Actually Susan’s been married for about as long as Athol Kay has, and she distilled her wisdom of years of marriage into the post and says that it has helped her marriage stay great. So it is definitely for the long haul, not a bait-and-switch tactic.

    Keep in mind she comes from the perspective of very liberal east coast Boston/NYC area where she went to Wharton business school and was immersed in feminist thought, so the list is for the socioeconomic class of women who would balk at any hint of “servitude” to a man due to mainstream indoctrination. It’s not a Stepford Wives scenario when it’s balancing against that background.

  24. I do think some of these require a Red Pill Man to be shared. Things like #17 require someone who is willing to listen and won’t look at you like you’re an alien if you tell him things you enjoy/would like to do during sex. Nothing quite like being told you’re evil/weird/disgusting when trying to communicate your sexual needs to a partner to get a woman to not talk about them.

  25. Milf_in_Training says:

    Great list … now I know what to work on. I do have a lot of these, but not all. I’m thinking of turning the list into a nice poster for my bathroom wall.

    The HUS post sounds more like instructions for the Cabin Girl … namely, your man should always be the main focus of your life, all else is subordinate. Some of us are well past that rank. I’m not ging to fake an interest in football to keep a man, though I won’t get in the way and may cook up a tasty bowl of nackos for him. And sit next to him and knit.

  26. Red Pill women are almost like unicorns. It’s just that there are more unicorns.

  27. This is a great list. I’m definitely aspiring to this, but I’m still learning and adjusting. I think I will be for many years, really.

  28. Random Angeleno says:

    Gigantic checklists … harumph!
    Women just need to remember 4 things about being in a relationship with a man:
    1. Respect him and show him that respect. Of course it’s on him to act worthy of that respect. MMSL FTW!
    2. Know when to leave him alone. This includes his job, his family and friends, his projects, his down time, etc. Within reason, of course.
    3. Never nag him. This doesn’t mean be a doormat. No, it means you do your best to let him know how you feel without attacking or criticizing him and you try to encourage him toward better conduct using your femininity. Easier said than done, especially when nag is your default mode. Nagging is extremely unattractive and men absolutely positively hate it when you go there that way.
    4. Always be physical. Not just the sex, but the affection as well. Be liberal with both.

    The rest is just details.

  29. Version3.0 says:

    If you’re looking for a quick filter, I recommend using #15. My STBX became more locked down, not more open, after discovering infidelity. If that wasn’t a dead give away, nothing is.

    Good filter for early on because it can be a general conversation, and doesn’t involve sex or kink discussions at all.

  30. Athol said “Have a low partner count”

    I wish I had taken the red pill earlier in my relationship with my wife. I knew she had had a few partners before we got married and I was OK with that because I had dated two women in a row that were virgins and in their late 20’s! (Those are the real unicorns! but not something I want to go through again) Soooo… when I took the red pill last year I finally had the talk with my wife (after 16 years of marriage) about former partners. I think she pretty much knew my history, since I only had had about 10 partners. Then she tells me she lost count after 30 different guys!!!! That would’ve been a show stopper if I wasn’t such a Nice Guy when I first met her. Things have worked out and we are having great sex, but if I knew then what I know now I would’ve probably walked… Have that talk early with her so nothing pops up later and screws up a marriage or something…

  31. @Version 3.0

    “My STBX became more locked down, not more open, after discovering infidelity. If that wasn’t a dead give away, nothing is.”

    I don’t understand. Can you give some more context?

  32. @Milf In Training

    That would be perfect. Nachos for the win. Would have to honk your boobs at half time though.

  33. Alphaguy:

    That’s my story almost to a T. I was very, very lucky. Sounds like you were too.

    Thing is, women with high partner counts are higher divorce risks. You have to keep up your alpha frame. This is because at least some of their prior partners were uber-alphas, or more alpha than you. The trouble can start if you drop frame and the inevitable comparisons start. She won’t tell you explicity; but it will come out in subtle ways — disrespect, daydreaming about past partners, sexual fantasies, and withholding sex.

    Tread carefully and keep your eyes and ears open.

  34. Regarding Susan’s list,

    When I read it, the items struck me more as a message to 18-25 young/college women to stop being selfish, narcissistic, princess-shits. It seemed to offer some helpful things they could try to do to break out of that mode.

    I would hazard a guess that for many of them in that demographic, especially from urban/lib environments, it has probably never occurred to them that they should do any of those things. I would also hazard a guess that the Feminist-ing moms that raised them were pretty lacking in that department as well to provide an example. Cue herb, milquetoast dad.

    If you look at the things on the list itself, they would be nice. Stepford or forced behavior? Well, maybe so at first, (fake it till you make it?) but some of these broads are seriously under-equipped in the nurturing feminine arts and it wouldn’t hurt them to put a couple of those items into their repertoire until they become natural modes of being.

    Seems about the same as when we tell a guy – “Hey – up the Alpha candy ass!” “Hit the weights and dress right you slob.” That’s how I read what she was saying, with the net effect of “BTW, you might actually attract a quality guy if you can start exhibiting quality behavior yourself.” Though I don’t think she can be that blunt without turning off some of her audience. The hamster, it must be coddled and whispered to.

    Some women come across so “butch” these days. Heck it wouldn’t surprise me if there was a certain subset of her female reading audience in that age range who read her list and thought “Shit, that’s what my boyfriend should be doing for ME!!!!! – that fucking lozer!!!” The LOLZ!

    (titz)

    Liked your list a lot too. That’s a pretty darn good starting point for looking at selection the second time around. I know the blog is geared towards married dudes, but there seems to be a bunch of us guys here that are second-timers and didn’t get the wife selection memo first time around. Chuckle.

    Doubt I’ll be encountering many virgins anymore but you have to mix and match criteria from the various lists and come up with your screeners. Your list is a good contribution to that.

    (moar titz please)

  35. Forgot to add, I suspect her female reading audience very much has all the outlandish sex acts part down pat. They are probably very lacking in sammich skills.

  36. Version3.0 says:

    @ZLX1

    Sharing of passwords and access has become critical. My wife reacted to my unfortunately productive snooping by making sure I never had access to anything again. I was just supposed to trust her and understand her need to privacy.

    She threw a fit when she found out I joined Match a few days before moving out. She said it was rude not to hide the charge. My reply? “Hey, I’m the guy who DOESN’T have a secret credit card and gave you access to EVERYthing, remember?”

    #15 is absolutely coming up in conversation with ladies I date pretty early on.

  37. @Version 3.0

    Ahh, I see. Point of order I learned the hard way, the words “none of your business ” have no place in a marriage. If your spouse is giving you that and it’s not just playing around, bad things are on the horizon. Sorry for your current troubles.

  38. Please explain “folly” in #6. We are very comfortable “needing” each other. We support each other in our weaknesses. Where one of us lacks, the other supports. I suppose you mean something different here, but i can also see this being a continuum, ranging from one of us handling stress better than the other to truly destructive behaviors.

  39. I have recently been introduced to all of this through my husband who is working on upping his alpha skills. This is a great list and definitely a list to help keep me going and keep things in perspective for the kind of wife I want to be. I’ve always been on the shyer side but I’ve noticed that the more alpha hubby is, the less inhibited I get. It’s awesome!

  40. While I was reading this list, I thought, “Wow, is there a whole group of women just like me? Most of the items on this list have always applied to me, and the ones that have not (#1 and #8) I was working towards fixing before coming across this website.” I have to say, I look forward to coming across like-minded females. :)

  41. Hey Athol, that putrid gender traitor Futrelle and his malajusted commenters are hating on you:

    http://manboobz.com/2012/09/14/vagina-and-consequences/

    I know, I saw the sales bump. ;-)

  42. Alpha bits:

    I just read through the comments. What a cesspool of delusional thinking. Up is down, love is hate, Athol is a hater and Jen is oppresses (queue the scene from Monty Python).

    What is most telling is how the thread degenerates into talk of abortion and how some of the commentors are
    ok with it because their parents were so mean and nasty to them for being forced to raise them as an unwanted child.

    horrific.

    (Jen! throw off the shackles of your oppressor! fly, you fool, fly!)

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