Miss Communication and Sexy Girl Game Initiation

Oh this one would be hysterically funny if it wasn’t so painful for the two of them. He thinks Initiation = X, she thinks Initation = Y. Read her side of the story and I’ll bold where he thinks he’s actually initating sex…. every single night…

 

Purple: I know this has been discussed before for women – the whole, “what counts as initiation from your wife?” thing. But I’m asking for men.

What counts as actual initiation for a man?

Right now I feel like I’m doing MOST of the initiation. A typical night of sex plays out like this:

- Go to bed.

- Lay in bed. Husband will cuddle up to me and slip hand under shirt and fondle boobs/play with nipples for a couple seconds.

- After a couple of minutes of this, he backs off and will either lay on his back and wait for me to start pushing towards sex, or will just roll away from me completely and go to sleep. Every few days, I make sure that I grind my ass into him to make it clear that I’m down for sex, or jump at him and start playing with his dick, or take my pants off, or WHATEVER, to push towards getting sex. If I don’t escalate it quickly and directly, half of the time… all I end up with at night is a boob fondle and then falling to sleep frustrated.

Occasionally he’ll skip fondling my chest and do some ass slapping, or something – but again, if I don’t turn to him and escalate quickly, it doesn’t go anywhere.

Every once in a while, he’ll go straight to fingering me – which DOES count as initiation IMO – but its also not very pleasant, because … um… going directly to the clit when I’m basically dry as a bone and not even remotely turned on … it just hurts.

What do most of the Captains do to initiate? I don’t even really know which way I want to lead my husband in this department, because I’m just not really sure what I’m looking for. Its nice – on the uber rare occasion – that he strokes my sides, rubs my back, boob-grabs, kisses my neck, etc – but I feel like initiation doesn’t have to start right as we’re getting into bed. Is that right? Like last night – about an hour before bed, I was on my hands and knees picking up some toys from the floor. He said, “Ooh… I think you’ll be doing that again later tonight.” THAT works for me, because then I knew when I was getting into bed that we were going for doggie.

Basically – his foreplay sucks. He doesn’t initiate – he drops a hint and then leaves it to me. My plan right now is to stop initiating completely. He can fondle boobs all he wants, but if that’s all he’s gonna do, then that’s all he’s gonna get. How do you teach a guy to initiate? I haven’t talked to him about this because a) I’m embarrassed and b) I don’t know what to tell him to direct him in a useful/not condescending way.

I could use some hot ideas!

 

Athol: So in short, he’s been trying to initate every single night, but the wiring is crossed as to what he thinks is her responding positively to his approach.

She’s only been responding every few days in a way that he clearly understands is a positive response, because she doesn’t see him as actually initating sex.

He’s being a good little Blue Pill guy and politely, respectfully and appropriately in his mind, rolling over and not pressuring her for sex. He’s also heartbroken about having the door slammed shut on him most nights.

So… solutions…

It sounds like you’re both quite horny. So why not have the disscussion where you experiment with every night assuming that the default setting is “yes” to sex. Then if someone doesn’t want it, you have to verbally express “not tonight” and cuddle and nod off together.

If his finger in your vagina feels like you’re being gored by a bull, tell him to stop and either lick it or lube it and then come back to the fingering. “Ow” is a safeword. If something hurts, it’s okay to say something about it and make an adjustment.

If you want him to CLEARLY UNDERSTAND you want sex… Touch Him On The Penis. It’s the only thing men 100% understand. Or perhaps try saying something like, “I want your cock inside me so bad baby.”

I get that sometimes you just want to be taken in the heat of the moment, but he’s probably a few months away from that happening because he feels frightened of you reacting badly to him trying that. So in the meantime, if you want a non verbal way of clearly communicating a desire for him to just start fucking the hell out of you, you can try some of these…

(1)  Be naked. Get on your hands and knees, resting your weight on your forearms. Look at him directly and breathe slowly and heavily as you take a loooooong slow blink, then drop your head down and slowly wiggle your ass at him.

(2)  Be naked. Kick all the covers off and lay on your back with your legs spread. Look at him directly and breathe slowly and heavily as you take a loooooong slow blink, as you fondle your breasts with one hand and finger yourself with the other.

(3)  Be naked. Lay on your back wearing a blindfold. Take a hair scrunchy and put your hands through it and figure 8 it around your wrists and lay your arms above your head.

(4)  Be naked. Drink yourself into unconsciousness, leaving a handwritten note that says, “Do what you must.”

(5)  Be naked. You. Laptop. Porn. In progress when he comes to bed.

(6)  Be naked. When he gets in bed, stand up on the bed over him and do the butt wiggle dance for him. Jiggle your boobs and slap your ass a few times.

(7)  Be naked. Naked except for some slutty come fuck me heels. No no no, don’t take them off, leave them on. (song lyric bonus points in the comments)

(8)  Be naked. Ask him for $50 with a very dirty smile and a giggle.

(9)  Be naked. Hand him the Redi-Whip, ask him if he likes pie.

(10) Be naked. Him on his back, just straddle him in the cowgirl postion without his cock inside you. Grind on him and play with his cock.

 

Jennifer:  Well… I guess I have my to do list for the week.

 

 

 

 

Comments

  1. So what about advice for the boys in this situation? – Being on the receiving end of someone who does little as you are feeling them up/massaging etc etc it gets a bit hard to escalate further not because it is rude etc, but just not getting a reaction from little miss is off putting… I even get the panties off 80% of the time and still little reaction from the Mrs. Boldly stating that if you want it just start grinding and/or get naked seems to fall on deaf ears…

  2. Yikes avatar typo fail.

  3. I’m sensing a pattern here.

  4. Everybody wants some – Van Halen FTW!

    Win!

  5. Everybody wants some, I want some too!

  6. OMG. I just fell out of my chair, seeing my post on the blog! LOL … heart attack averted. Now I’ll quiet my breathing and stop blushing and manage to actually TAKE IN what the post says!!

  7. Well… seeings as I’m thinking about heading to bed. I guess tonight I should take my clothes off first… that seems to be a theme. ;)

    I’m surprised at how dense I was being – I really didn’t think he was truly initiating with this subtle/far-too-gentle stuff. Its always felt like he’s just touching me for a minute while he ponders if he wants to take it any further than caressing me. Soooooo much of the confusion I’ve been feeling the past few weeks about this has just evaporated. I still think I’m higher drive than he is, but now I’m no longer worried about his T levels!

    Also – these are some very sexy ideas. #4 – LOL.

  8. Wow, this was funny. Two adult people both want sex, are married to each other and cannot communicate this. This is material for a sitcom.

    Here is how to do this:

    Be clothed, open your mouth, say “I want sex tonight”, and voila!

    For additional spice you can substitute the “I want sex tonight” with something else like “Is there a man/woman in this house who knows how to please a woman/man” or “I’ll be having sex tonight, you wanna join?” or whatever.

    I really don’t understand how two willing adult people could be having this problem.

    If for some reason you are both so shy like catholic girls recieving first communion and cannot speak about your desires, which is incredibaly absurd, just write a letter to each other explaining that wearing a certain underwear when going to sleep or leaving certain items on your night table in certain positions is a sign of you wanting/not wanting/demanding/not demanding but accepting/too tired for sex tonight.

  9. And there is no reason for being naked when suggesting sex. Undressing/being undressed is too good part of foreplay to just skip it for many people..

  10. *lol*

    What fantastic advice, but be careful – trying to keep a straight face could be a problem.

    “Be naked” and “touch his penis” is about as subtle as a women should get. Men aren’t good generally at anything less subtle.

  11. The husband is blue pilling to the point of going against his own biological imperative, in marriage! Dr. Athol, we have a bleeder.

  12. Mr. Anonymous says:

    “No no no, don’t take them off, leave them on” Definitely Van Halen…Panama?

  13. Trimegistus says:

    Athol: you forgot this one.

    “Be naked. Touch his penis. With your tonsils.”

  14. It’s interesting because I just read this as all advice on how SHE should “be the initiator.” Now I will admit up front that my marriage dissolved from many issues, one of the major ones being that I’m extremely high sex drive and my ex-husband was basically asexual. When you leave the door open all the time, being obvious in your invitation, that is initiating to me. That is starting the process towards sex and it indicates a desire for your partner. I read Purple’s email as wanting that same “I want you tonight” vibe from her hubby FIRST, not after she has to get naked, gyrate, and all but throw herself at him. I am reading this through a scarred background, and someone, especially Purple, needs to correct my perception here, but how is he being the initiator when she’s the one who does all of the “LOOK AT ME, I WANT YOU AND I WANT SEX” displays?

    Well she was the one asking for help, so I helped her.

  15. She specifically asks “what do most of the captains do” and how does she lead him down the right path to becoming the initiator, but the advice seems to be “take the captaincy from him.” How does that help his Betatude? It reinforces it to me. :-(

    You totally miss the point that he has been initating every night, but believes she shoots him down by being unresponsive.

  16. Outstanding post. One of the greatest mis-communication issues that any married couple face is this one. And Athol hits it out of the park with his response.

    How do you encourage a dude to take the helm and be Captain in bed? That’s a toughie, because you’re negotiating some dangerous waters. Men fear rejection and judgement, especially in regard to their sex life, and what this woman describes is the frustrating-for-both parties classic Blue Pill Beta approach to grinding your marriage to a stall due to these fears. But communicating that frustration in a constructive way is difficult. You have to essentially remove the fear of rejection, and give him a space safe from judgement, in order for him to overcome his hesitancy. There are ways you can do this without invoking Solomon’s Dilemma or completely emasculating him, and without initiating a huge relationship discussion. Here’s a few that can work (YMMV):

    “Should I just take off my panties now?” puts the “ball” back into his court, gives you the opportunity for a sexy, innocent-young-thing delivery, or (conversely) a matter-of-fact “Let’s Do This!” attitude, and reduces his necessary response to a single word or even a nod. Just try not to roll your eyes and/or use a sarcastic tone when you do it, as that kind of defeats the purpose. You want to encourage him, not discourage him, to take charge and be decisive.

    “Tell me how you want me” tells him that you’ve said yes, and essentially invites him to command you. If he says “however you are most comfortable” or some other lame-ass Blue Pill bullshit like that, then counter with “That’s not an acceptable response. Try again.” He’ll get the picture. Once he understands that he’s cleared the rejection hurdle and he has your tacit approval, he’ll gain more confidence he’ll be less hesitant. (An acceptable alternate counter: “That’s not an acceptable response — but no anal. Try again.”)

    “Tell me what’s turning you on,” is a way to tacitly agree to sex, as well as engaging him intellectually without ripping your clothes off and writhing naked right off the bat. Just don’t let him get away with a one-word answer like “you!” — that’s sweet but lame. Encourage him to be imaginative in his description of what has his motor running, and don’t be afraid to ask for more detail. Just be careful not to react negatively to what he says — remember, what turns him on isn’t necessarily what turns you on, and you might not like what you hear, but accept that it does the trick for him without judgement, and he’ll be more forthright in the future.

    Lastly, if you want to invite him to “commit” to initiating, then a simple “You’re going to have to be more aggressive than that if you want to fuck me tonight,” with a captivating grin (not a complaining whine) will challenge him to up his Alpha a bit and go for it. Or “Kiss me for thirty seconds without stopping, and I’ll see if I want you inside me tonight” has proven effective. If after thirty seconds your own motor isn’t running, then likely you’re too tired or (fill in darn good excuse not to have sex here ) to go for it. THAT’S FINE. If you phrase it right, it won’t feel like a rejection (and remember, a handjob is still a win to a dude, not a rejection).

    Female sexuality is responsive in nature, I get that. You may not know if you’re up for sex until you’ve been presented the opportunity, and even if you’re initially reluctant you might get into it with a little time and attention. Just remember, if you don’t throw him a positive sign within the first sixty seconds of him touching you, then he’s going to start to back off, thinking you aren’t into it. A “positive sign” can be a smile, ladies. A nod. An exaggerated breath. A spreading of the thighs or thrusting of the chest. At least look at him and acknowledge that what he’s doing is having some effect on you, or he’s going to start down the road toward doubt.

    And if you don’t know if you wanna, then say it. Either give him a chance to convince you, or encourage him to try again later, but don’t leave him hanging. Think of your body as a car (because your dude probably thinks of it that way). To him, “initiating sex” means putting the key in and cranking the engine (getting to second base), not driving away. If he cranks the engine by grabbing your boob and doesn’t hear your motor “turn over”, he’s going to assume you’ve stalled and back off. Let him hear that you’re at least considering the matter, and he’ll be all-too-eager to take a couple of laps around the track.

    Crap. I wrote a freakin’ blog post again.

    BTW, Jennifer, you made me snort coffee out of my nose. Well played, Madame, well played.

  17. Those are hilarious and fantastic ideas at the same time. I like all of them, but I think #1 is my favorite.

  18. @Solomon – I blame his blue pill-ness for this. And I’m mostly red pill now, but I DO struggle with it sometimes still and communicating sexual things with actual words is not my strong point. I easily become embarrassed and try to exit the conversation as quickly as possible. That’s how this happened. I also am so worried that I’m going to embarrass him, emasculate him, or piss him off … I’m still learning to channel my inner slut. I think he still very much sees me as a “anti-sex wife”. I’m only 3 or 4 months in with really pushing my FAP.

    @LL – I read it that way too – but Athol did say it may take a few months before his initiating is anything close to that “I just gotta have you. NOW” vibe. Maybe right now he needs to see that I’m done rejecting him so that he feels comfortable increasing the intensity of the initiation? That’s how I read this advice. :) Maybe its worth saying that once the sex gets going, its becoming more and more something enjoyable. The sex itself has morphed from him trying to gently make love to me and has turned into him offering an orgasm and then flipping me where he wants me and fucking me. Its just this initiation hurdle that we’re dealing with now. I’ve been trying SO HARD not to reject him – but I was reading these signs all wrong and didn’t understand that he’s initiating, so I’ve had a big slap of “I’ve still been rejecting him at least 50-60% of the time” … I just didn’t realize I was doing it, because this is sooo subtle.

    @Ian – I may need to start reading your blog. ;) That’s helpful stuff there – thanks!

  19. Ian, great comment.

    Purple, I do have to add that I am always amused by women who can HAVE sex but not TALK about it with her partner or husband. Have you thought about being a little more up front? If he rubs your breasts and then rolls over, you can always follow it with, “Honey, can we finish what you started? My motor is humming now!” That simple invitation shows him you are open to the sex without having to pounce on him.

  20. The Outsider says:

    Athol said once that men have basically one sexual fantasy: that the girl is into it. Much as we’d like to think otherwise, guys are terribly insecure about being rejected – especially “blue-pill” guys who kind of believe women are doing them a favor by deigning to have sex with them at all. I do agree that Athol’s suggestions here, while they will obviously do the trick on any given night, may not help with the overall problem – that the guy isn’t taking charge. I also think there’s a risk that her being too overt will make him even less likely to escalate on his own because he’ll think that’s what turned on always looks like. The win she wants is for him not to need so much from her to believe he’s got the green light. Right?

    In my experience, subtle acknowledgments can work pretty well. If he spoons her and starts to feel her up, she could reach back and put her hand on him or bite his finger or whatever. Also, those long sighs or slight moans or whatever are pretty good for saying, “I’m basically enjoying this.” She could also say, “Don’t stop,” or, “Come back,” next time he starts to roll away.

    When you realize how fragile and insecure guys really are in this area, it’s almost comical. So ubiquitous and powerful, it can’t all be blue-pill conditioning. There must be a biological explanation.

  21. I’m so guilty of that tentative initiation stuff. In the first place, I’m way too polite. In the second place, I’ve been the recipient of god awful duty sex. Rejection isn’t that big a deal to me if it’s only from time to time, but I don’t want her to do me any favors. I can look at porn and jerk off if it’s a bother.

    Ian and Athol both have some great advice and insight on this one.

  22. taterearl says:

    Yeah, that’s it, a little more to the right.

  23. taterearl says:

    Or as Ron White said…

    “Put your tongue on his dick and see if things don’t just work out great for the two of you.”

  24. Trimegistus says:

    A gasp of pleasure and arousal is also a good signal. Or a little growl.

  25. I’m a blow job strike… BJs are only forthcoming if its a direct response to him performing oral on me or if I’m on my period and he asks.

    @LL – it IS funny – I can type it, I can think it, I can DO it… I just get super embarrassed and tongue tied and shy the instant I try to say anything sexually explicit. I struggle to even call body parts by dirty names – I prefer using “penis”, etc. You should see me try to spit out the word ‘pussy’, if I’m not referring to an actual cat. Its comical!

  26. Athol any thoughts on body piercings?

    Anything other than vanilla earings, means she’s likely into kinky stuff. The more initmate area it’s in, the wilder she is.

  27. @Purple: Blow job strike?! Wow, your “man” must really be beta as fuck to put up with that. No wonder sex isn’t working out well, a blow job strike is the most obvious way of stating, “I don’t want your cock”. You can either withhold sex from your beta husband who you really aren’t that attracted to, to hold power over him and resent him the whole time, or you can do everything to be as physically attractive, sexually available, and full of feminine virtue as possible and help him be the alpha that would never have to ask to receive a blowjob, which is, I assume, the man you really want.

  28. The Outsider says:

    Purple, *that’s* why you’re having problems. It’s all well and good to bitch that he isn’t being more direct. But you’ve just admitted to playing mind games with him. Nice.

  29. Two thoughts:

    1) Not insecure, gun shy
    2) Establish a safe word

  30. Mistys Dad says:

    You should be living it up while your going down.

    Not being on strike.

    (Aerosmith: Love in an elevator for the win)

  31. As I said before, I know the rejection thing, so I know the crushing feeling of being made to feel unwanted, unattractive, unfuckable. That being said, Purple, I think tit for tat BJ striking isn’t going to work. You say you cannot actually verbalize sexual thoughts and wants and needs so you can maybe write them out for him. If you give him a blowjob and get no oral in return, after a few times, text him, be flirty, “Looking forward to bedtime tonight! I expect you return the oral favors, I sure do love it as much as you do! Rawr!” Be positive, but state what you want and need in writing if you can’t do it with your voice. If he doesn’t return the favor, even with an obvious want expressed, you can do the written thing again, but come at it from a different angle. “Wow, last night rocked, but oral sends me over the moon. Next time, I’ll be looking to see your eyes over my mound, honey!” Yeah, it’s pressuring him a little, but if he is not forthcoming at all in the oral department, THEN I can see not giving them because sex is a two way street. If he’s take take take, you have a legitimate complaint.

  32. Up until last month, he was take take take take. I hadn’t received oral in YEARS (yes, I asked for it). He was getting 2-3 a month. His favorite thing was to request a BJ, get it, then roll over and go to sleep.

    Funny enough – now that he’s started giving me oral, he’s getting quite a bit in return. He’s had more BJs in the past month than he has since we first started dating.

  33. Funny enough – now that he’s started giving me oral, he’s getting quite a bit in return. He’s had more BJs in the past month than he has since we first started dating.

    Better, much better. The way you first expressed it was very, very negative. Now let him know the reason why he’s getting more. Maybe you should ask him to sing this with you

  34. Yeah – I kinda left that open to the imagination the first time. My bad… >.<

  35. Similar List For Men Please. says:

    PLEASE construct such a list for men. Then I can direct my husband to it. I don’t want to be the one always initiating and he says he doesn’t know how to. This is bad when my desire is mostly responsive. Looks like another night watching TV in my house is about to happen.

  36. Am I the only guy that thinks sex initiated *after* getting into bed, undressed, with the lights out is a game already lost? Often I’ll do all the fondling things after we get into bed or in the morning, but I kind of see it as foreplay for the next day, not a way to initiate sex. Sometimes it will proceed to sex if I just need release. But if its her that really wants it then I kind of feel like I botched it by not getting the most out of her before bedtime.

  37. It’s amazing to think that the OP wouldn’t respond enough to her husband touching her breasts to signal going further. It makes sense that that would have been a natural time to take off your shirt or “touch his penis.”

    Seriously?

  38. I shouldn’t have skipped Ian’s log comment. You’re the Man, Ian.

  39. Love the VH reference! If every man acted like Diamond Dave, there would be no blue pill!! lmao!!

    Basically, women if you want your man to initiate, BE NAKED. That’s all. :)

  40. @ Similar List For Men

    You’re asking for a list of ways a man can show that he wants to screw? In my experience, women have different ideas of initiation, so why not personalize it? Write up a list of five things he can do that signal he’s up for sex. If he does those things, and you touch him on the penis in response, he knows he’s good to go.

    More likely, his problem is not that he doesn’t know how (any guy knows that touching the tits is a sign he wants sex), it’s that he is not sure what you would approve of. He’s literally worried that if he just walks up behind you and grabs your tits, you will respond by rejecting him. I don’t know your history, but whether you’ve rejected him a thousand times or zero, his apprehension is real and must be dealt with as though it were reasonable. He doesn’t need to know how, he needs to know that it’s okay. The list of approved approaches could solve that problem, too. Once he’s gained some confidence in that, consider expanding the list with his input. After you’ve expanded the list two or three times, tell him that you’re confident enough in his approach that he can make something up on the fly and you’ll respond – then, when he does approach, be sure to respond enthusiastically.

  41. NullPointer says:

    Look, I’ll pay you for it, what the fuck….

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