When Your Husband Won’t Act Alpha Even When You Beg Him

AlphaBelle:  Talk to me about this FAP thing. I have been concerned/unhaaaaaaapy lol with the state of things for over a year. Read and talked and read some more. Finally found MMSL about 6 months ago, and had words to express what was wrong with my marriage.

I have no IRL friends to discuss this with.

My H is receptive, but since I found all this and basically threw it plus nmmng at his head during a meltdown, he is reacting to my complaints, not running the MAP on his own. He is a deeply ingrained nice guy, plus introvert and brainiac. So it’s going veeeerrrry slowly.

I am tired.

Of being the motivator. Of seeing all The things he used to do that he doesn’t anymore. Of having to get upset every 2.4 weeks to re motivate him and remind him that I’m serious about this. Of having to do the pull back/reward routine when I just want a really nice happy normal sex life with nightly sex. Of evaluating whether I’m hamstering or really justifiably frustrated, or expecting too much at this point.

Of feeling like I am still running things, by running my FAP and manipulating him into waking up that dang dormant Alpha side again.

I am tired.

Talk to me about my expectations and where I’m going with this. I see and feel progress, but I feel like I am spoon feeding him what I want him to say/do/be and I don’t want to do it anymore.

I want him to read and act and do because he wants to, not because I’m unhappy.

Basically I feel like a witch and like I’m making him feel like he can’t do anything right. But when I ease up, he acts like, “whew. Got that figured out.”

*sigh*

Athol:  Then stop trying to change him. Every time you “motivate him” you’re just sending him a message that he’s the most important thing in your world, he has your complete attention and is in total control of the relationship.

Change you. Make yourself as attractive as you can be, start exhibiting very mild disloyalty.

Right now your entire relationship could be summed up as….

You —-e-n-e-r-g-y—-> Him

So why would he do anything to change that situation?

Cutting that energy flow off will get his attention.

There’s no need for him to act at all Alpha, when you’re acting like his orbiter sending out a Mayday call.

If you become as attractive as you can be and start visiting the magical world of “out”, he’s going to start wondering why you’re not paying him attention and dreading that you’re paying attention to someone else. It’s only when you’re acting more Alpha is he going to need to act more Alpha around you.

Not for nothing, but the men that find MMSL on their own are always highly motivated to make change because they are deeply worried about how their relationship is going. Men simply don’t respond to “I’m unhappy”, “I’m unhaaaaaaaappy!” or “You suck! That’s why I’m so unhappy!”  They do very much respond to wives dressing up nice and spending time with other men though.

I’m not saying it’s polite to do it, I’m just saying what works.

Comments

  1. “…I just want a really nice happy normal sex life with nightly sex.”

    It’s nice to know girls like her are soon to be on the market – hopefully in my area.

  2. This just reinforces for me that I don’t need to waste energy pushing MMSL on my husband. He’s not going to read it. I’ll die of shock if he does. Seriously. He knows I read it, and if he asks about it, I’m honest with him – but I am simply not going to waste my energy on that when I’m already expending massive amounts of energy on finally learning what it means to be female and why being female means I am allowed to be feminine!

  3. Oh no, ohh no! I know you’re right I just don’t know if I can do it. This is the really hard stuff.

  4. Well that’s a shame he can’t learn to be dominate after all those years she spent teaching him submission.
    There must be something wrong with him,go get a new one and start the process all over again.
    The in 10 years you will be right back to this point again.
    Here’s a clue: signs of unfaithfulness make some guys run.
    Perhaps the wimmin of the future will make an implantable chip they can install into men’s head to control them like puppeteers.

  5. Version3.0 says:

    Despite counseling (on my own) and numerous Big D threats from her over the years, the only thing that got me to change (finding NMMNG and MMSL in short order) was her online affair.

    Use with caution, though.

  6. dopamineplease says:

    This sounds very similar to the situation I’m in with my husband. Although, I already have another man who is very alpha trying to engage me. Nothing has happened yet. I even pulled back after revealing to my husband that another man was interested thinking it would motivate him to genuinely run the MAP. This was about 6 weeks ago and I haven’t noticed any significant changes, except after 14 years of marriage, he has taken it upon himself to learn how to make breakfast. This is a very welcome improvement, but definitely not the one I was seeking.

  7. As I move forward with this strategy I feel like I’m coming up with an exit plan at the same time and feeling lecherous? In my head… “fine, you won’t listen, you don’t notice how hot I am, how nice I am, how great a wife I can be… I’ll let others see this and who knows.. that someone else might just be attractive to me too. Or I’ll get to the point that all the outside attention will make me wonder what I’m doing with him… which it already is.”

    I feel like I’m setting myself up for an affair of some kind and that’s what I’m trying to avoid.

  8. Thank God I found this on my own and changed for my benefit alone before getting involved with a woman.

    Plus there is something to a guy “just getting it” and not being told by a woman how to be a man. However there will always be the group that doesn’t get it…or refuses to get it.

  9. Omg so topical to my marriage! Another awesome post that’s right on target. My problem is I already dress nice or at least very presentable even when just at home. I get looks whenever we go out tsoa he knows other attn is out therealthough maybe I should rub it in his face more. However I’m a real homebody introvert so going out isn’t that appealing to me. We also have a toddler so leaving him on baby duty sucks (he works like 50hr/wk and I’m a sahm). The limits on our time also mean I want to maximize our time together. I really hate game playing. I should have been doing hard to get for yrs now but my oneitis prevents me from doing so. However gave him warning about 6 mo ago that i’d leave if things didn’t get better. Some improvement especially sionce finding mmsl few mo ago. Idk I just want to be f***ed every night whereas he acts like he coul take it or leave it. Sucks too

  10. (F***ing phone) anyways sucks too bc I’m a higher sex rank but royally screwed. Fml…

  11. Introvert/braniac types often have a problem with getting enough exercise. They’re generally cerebral, and did not thrive in the jock/meathead culture that is imposed on most of us from middle school on up.

    In addition to running the FAP (ahem), there is something to be said for appreciating the hormonal effect of exercise. Testosterone has a very strong effect on the male brain, no matter how introverted and smart one may be.

  12. Mistys Dad says:

    Getting in his face every couple of weeks to shame him isn’t going to give you the results you are looking for. When a woman tells a man that he needs to “Man up”, she is insulting and degrading, not supportive. The natural reaction when someone treats you in an insulting and degrading manner is certianly not to accomodate what they want.

    Using the carrot and stick approach with your sex life to manipulate him is passive aggresive. You think that you can “steer” him by withholding. I bet he sees it as a wife that is just manipulative.

    Your hamster is funtioning fine.

  13. Yep- never been one for exercise. Hubby kind of is but finding time is difficult. We have a jogging stroller and go on family runs (cheaper than buying gym memberships though want to do that too) but my ankle hurts now so scared to push it. Also his work schedule is crazy so hard to get into a routine. Life just sucks.

  14. Can someone please explain “FAP” in this comment/context? I thought it was masturbatory noises??

  15. LMFAO- I believe FAP is “Female action plan” as opposed to MAP which is “male and/or marriage action plan”. While we’re at it, what’s NMMNG?

  16. NMMNG = No More Mr Nice Guy

  17. @Version3.0 said: “the only thing that got me to change (finding NMMNG and MMSL in short order) was her online affair……Use with caution, though.”

    An online affair is a far stretch from “mild disloyalty.” And yes, it’s been shown in the forum plenty of times that when the woman is out the door or has already cheated, that’s when the guy decides to wake up (and viceversa when the roles are reversed). But that is not mild disloyalty, that is cheating or fully checking out.

    I understand mild disloyalty to be a combo of doing your own thing, focusing on your own goals, fitness, career, hobby wise, plus getting pre-selection that the spouse can witness.

    However, my thoughts on pre-selection are that it works differently for the man than for the woman. I think women get a big kick in the pants from witnessing preselection on their guy, I think we women do get a palpable sense of threat from witnessing pure preselection on our guy. But I am not sure that guys take preselection on their woman as such a serious threat. I think they take it more like “oh my woman is looking hot,” I think it’s almost like a notch on the belt for the guy witnessing the preselection on his woman. Only if the woman gives serious indication of relishing the outsider’s attention or seeking more of it, or setting up opportunities to see more of the guy, only then do the men start to get threatened.

    I will say that as a married woman, it is pretty difficult to get yourself into that mindset that you wanna escalate pre-selection further into explicit flirting and beyond. You are mentally really turning away from your guy at that point. There is no way to be “mild” about it. You have to relish the attention you are getting from someone else, enough that you wanna flirt back and keep heated banter going, and maybe even hint that you’d like to see more of the guy, all without loosing sight of the fact that you are planning on staying faithful? hum, not buying it.

    So if escalating beyond pure pre-selection is what is gonna take to get a guy to “alpha,” but we understand that for married women this is a pretty hard line to cross, then I am not sure that this stance of a woman showing “mild disloyalty,” that is really not mild at all, is realistic.

  18. Joe_Commenter says:

    Dear L: if you have one-itis then your man has no incentive to change. FWIW, my advice is to make sure you are taking your birth control. Having another kid whilst contemplating divorce or whilst less than happy w/ your marriage is a big mistake. Kids are great and all. But kids can bring down a marriage that is not strong.

    I don’t want to seem harsh, but a lot of SAHM’s have no clue how difficult today’s work world is. My wife and I both work full time and by the end of the week we are exausted. Your husband is exhausted too if he is working 50+ hours/week. You really have no idea how soul sucking that kind of workload is until you live it for a while. You are living the dream life. No work pressure. You need to find some contact outside the house for friendship. Your husband is working his ass off. He cannot provide you with all mental stimulation you need. You need to do some things for yourself. As a bit of perspective, almost every woman I work with would kill to be in your shoes. Many men would love to not have to slog to work every day.

    I am not trying to pin all responsibility on you. I am not trying to make light of your situation. What you feel is real. But in every relationship, there are improvements to be made be each person. Perhaps if you got some kind of a job you would establish some independence for yourself. At the same time, get some experiences and meet new people. That would telegraph to your man that you are valuable to others.

  19. I’ve tried this approach, but I feel like it backfires. Sometimes, he gets all pissy and asks before I even leave, “Who are you going to be with? What are you going to do? When are you going to be back?” He’ll seem very worried, enough to make me feel like I am some cheating skank. then if I am more than 5 mins late getting in, he doesn’t talk to me for 3 days and acts like he doesn’t give a damn if I am with him or screwing someone else.

    What then?

  20. @Wendy another dude hitting on your girl and her looking like she is enjoying the interaction fills men with utter stomach churning dread. I keep saying “mild disloyalty” because the male reaction is so powerful.

  21. @Joe_commenter I get that work is hard. I’m not that dense- hence the want to maximize our time together and all that as well as not make him babysit while I go to that mysterious place “out”. However things have been like this since HS when he had half days and napped all afternoon. I mention how things are now to figure out what to do in the current situation. Needless to say, there is a plethora of issues yet still in love enough to want to stay:/ Things are getting better but still so much crap from our past:(

  22. @alphabelle
    Men are STUPID! Especially brainiac men. I have 160+ i.q. Finished grade 13 at eleven.
    Whe. it comes to women I was a retard until three years ago and finding Athol.

    Athol nails it. He wont get the logic or the nagging. He Will get the
    You dont want this…hmmm bag boy at the grocery wants it…watcha gonna do about it.

    Then when he goes oh shit I better do something like a brainiac he will want to do research. Shove the primer at him and say figure it out Einstien. Stand back and watch it unfold.

  23. @L — “Yep- never been one for exercise. Hubby kind of is but finding time is difficult. We have a jogging stroller and go on family runs (cheaper than buying gym memberships though want to do that too) but my ankle hurts now so scared to push it. Also his work schedule is crazy so hard to get into a routine. Life just sucks.”

    Lack of time is just an excuse. If you have time to watch 10 minutes of TV or surf the Internet 3-4 days per week, then you have time to exercise. Do you have a floor, or a patch of ground to call your own? Then you have space for a push up.

    “Jogging stroller” is the wrong kind of exercise. Jogging should not be on a man’s list of exercise ideas. Men need exercise in the form of sharp, high-intensity bursts. Doing 10 sprints for 15 seconds each is 100x more effective than jogging for an hour. Plus, he needs to do load-bearing exercises — moving weights of some kind. Sell the jogging stroller and use the money to buy a set of 15-pound dumbbells. They’re cheap.

    Look for something like a Cross Fit form of gym. Cross Fit is a brand, but there are dozens of smaller chains that offer the same thing. It’s all sprinting, push ups, lifting some bars, and getting it all done in about 30 minutes, including the warm up. They usually open at 5 or 6 am.

    As for your “plethora of issues,” my guess is that there is actually only one — a deficit of sexual attraction. All the other issues seem to solve themselves, once you solve that one.

  24. Joe_Commenter says:

    Gotcha L. So is it mainly the sex part that is bothering you? If your H sexed you up more often, would that fix things? Or is it that he is not being a leader at home?

    Has he read the MMSL book? I gotta tell you, if my wife handed me the MMSL book I would consider that a clear indication that she was deeply unhappy and had clear ideas about what she was expecting from me. I would also know that I only had a short window to get my collective crap together. Or else. Remember, most men are clueless. Most men are shocked when the wife asks for a divorce. They will say, yeah i knew you were unhappy, but you didn’t say you would divorce me. You have got to be clear w/ your man about expectations.

  25. I agree for both sexes that “going out” so that your spouse misses your attention and wonders what other attention you are getting is a great tactic. However,as a couple of female commenters have alluded to, actually getting that attention can be dangerous. I think it may be especially so for women. Both sexes do have agency in not actually straying, but let’s face it, a woman in that situation is going to be hit on 10x as much as a man is. A man running the MAP actually has to chase an outside female (even if she wants to be caught). A woman running the FAP has 10 times as much attention and so it is more likely that something can “just happen”, because so many men are chasing her and because of the power of the hamster.

    Another version of dread game that I believe Athol has proposed in the past is to tell him that if he isn’t going to change, that you want to consider an open marriage. That specifies a sexual energy/polarity based complaint requiring more alpha, rather than a “you don’t make me feel loved” complaint requiring more beta. Even if he is excited by this initially because he thinks he will be getting some strange, you can remind him that you will be getting a lot more action than him, which should hit him over the head that at the very least he will have to up his game to compete. btw, you don’t need to mean it (or follow through) for this to work. You are just pointing out the consequences of him being lazy in the relationship. This won’t work for everyone, but for some couples it may be a better strategy than the wife having to actually let down her guard against other males or jumping straight to threatening divorce.

  26. Taking the Red Pill sucks. While this guy is living in Blue Pill land he’ll never get it until he swallows the red pill. Uping your game should wake him up! He really does need to read NMMNG but he never will until he feels like there is a crisis in his marriage. Take it from me, I ignored my wife for many years. She tried to start up an affair with a neighbor and she even told me she had “feelings” for this guy and had to go sort it out. That was my wake up call (Swallowed a bit fat red pill!) and took appropriate actions and read many books to get our marriage back on track.

    I think the other thing is that I think I saw it’s only been a few weeks since she started all this. I would say that from the time that you realize there is a problem to complete resolution would probably take a minimum of two years or more. It’s a long so process and getting him to change is something that he is going to have to initiate. Good luck!

  27. @Joe_Commentor You’ve made some excellent points. I’m a SAHM, and have come to the same conclusions as you. I have more time and energy than my husband, so I need to change that with a PT job.
    Do you coment on the Forum? We could use your discernment there.

  28. Joe_Commenter says:

    Thanks for the shout out Serenity. I do enjoy visiting the forum and posting now and then. But lately I’ve been maxxed out at work and have not been able to do much on the forum. The project I am leading is on the critical path and has deliverables due every other week.

    I will say this. MMSL is one of those books that every man should read. My marriage was strong before the book. But after implementing MMSL ideas, the atmosphere at home is just flat out much better. My wife is giddy with a passion to be my girl. She’s got this positive energy about her now. Almost like back when we were dating. This after being married 25 years too.

    What I did not expect though, was that the captain-y vibe that I carry with me at home has bled over into my work persona. Especially with the women, I seem to more easily get buy in for my ideas and get fewer fitness tests from them now. This of course makes my work life more fun than before too. LOL. Maybe L can sell MMSL to her mate as a career building tool.

    My advice to SAHM’s is to take more leadership in the sex department. Warn him before supper to not eat too much. You have a surprise waiting for him later that evening. Put the kids to bed early. Push him down on the bed, strip him and give him a 5 minute massage and follow up on anything that uh, uh, comes up. Being a slut w/ your man is an easy way to send your sex rank way up.

    I have a whole laundry list of stuff that SAHM’s can use to get more action.

  29. When I was trying to resuscitate a dying relationship via the FAP (which coincidentally led to him doing a lot more fapping) I found that initiating more frequent and enthusiastic sex cemented him in his (bad) behavior. Seriously, what man would change anything when his wife is initiating good sex all the time? Also the point of the FAP isn’t getting more sex, per se, it’s getting a husband you want to have more sex with.

    The trick I think, as a woman, to upping your sex rank using sex is to wait for him to do something “right,” (alpha) and go all out (talking dirty, giving head, his favorite positions, lots of enthusiasm.) Then don’t do it again until he does something else right. Occasional obligatory relationship-maintenance sex is permissible, but the key is to demonstrate that you are a sex kitten and then leave him wondering how to bring that out of you. For a woman with a high sex drive, this can be very frustrating.

    Also, spending increasing amounts of time outside of the home after you have demonstrated your inner sex kitten is essentially Dread game. If you want to get extreme, responding to a sexual advance by him with “Oh, I already masturbated today” might explode his brain.

  30. Bittersweet. says:

    I’ve tried the ‘don’t make the effort’ approach (after making the effort) and it was even less successful than trying to communicate what I wanted. (No, I did not make him submissive. He’s always been this way, I just didn’t mind so much in earlier years. I think my hormones changed). At this stage, I’m worried that I’m going to get to menopause and the lack of regular sex in preceding years is going to affect my body so that any menopause related physical issues that impact sex are going to be exacerbated at that time (use it or lose it kind of thing). I have a fear that he will wait till this time and then suddenly want more when my body might not co-operate as much. Are some men lost causes?

  31. I have much to read to really come up to speed on you whole MAP “technique,” but one little glitch I have in my dilemma of getting DH to “alpha-up” is that I believe I’ve always had a higher sex rank than him–even when I gained a lot of weight during the depressing middle stages of our marriage (we seem sexually mis-matched from the get-go… he seems able to do without, whereas I need sex, often–not only for pleasure, but for the one-ness and the bond it creates in the marriage). He’s always stayed trim and in OK shape, but his attractiveness is really not his exterior appearance (he’s at heart a good, dependable person… but yeah, sometimes you want to blanch a little at that description–ironically, this is appealing to many woman–a “nice guy” who doesn’t want sex much). Now that I’ve trimmed down, and gotten my sexy back… we’re doing slightly better in the bedroom because I told him in no uncertain terms that a platonic, sexless marriage was not going to be a lifetime things for me. After several decades together and kids, I do love him and have a lot “invested” emotionally. But he had to start delivering or I’d need to move on (possibly to a solitary life… but absent the daily disappointment that my mate didn’t feel the same desire for passion as I did). He’s always known I had an “exit strategy” brewing, which conjured up a lot of deep resentments over the years. He also is aware that I was dated, wined, and dined by some powerful men in my 20s but essentially jokes about this. With empty nest looming, he has stepped up on the sex (I’m another who would love every night, or almost!) but I still long for a dominant, alpha male to take charge. I’ve asked for a Domestic Discipline marriage, but he can’t wrap his head around that; I don’t want game playing (and I think a lot of this MMSL sounds like games). Being Christians, we both know that divorce would be the absolute last recourse… and that cheating would not even be a remote or believable threat. I’m no dummy either–in my 50s–while in absolute terms I look very good for my age (when teenagers tell you their friends cannot believe their mom is in her 50s, you believe them)–in relative terms I know what I’m up against out there. I realize that meeting someone else is not a strong possibility. Therefore, even though my upgraded appearance has begun attracting much more attention from both single and married males in my age group (at church!), my husband doesn’t seem to take note or seem concerned… he “trusts”that it will go nowhere (and he’s right–I won’t cheat, and most of these flirters won’t either). If I ever intimated cheating was on my mind, I think the betrayal would kill our marriage for good (and right now, trust is tenuous). However, I do take to heart that as long as he feels secure in knowing I will remain true, he’ll sit content and happy in his minimalist efforts. Men (and women) aren’t as formulaic as you paint. But wouldn’t you say that we are at a stalemate situation here?

  32. VitaminRNeeded says:

    The advice about becoming attractive and visiting the “magical world of out” is great unless it’s not enough, and you are not willing to slip into “mildly disloyal” behavior. Disclaimer: I put lots of effort into my looks. Hit the gym constantly, etc. So, unfortunately, I don’t know what else I can do in that department. Pretty maxed out by age and genetics. :D Furthermore, my husband is 100% convinced (and rightfully so) that I would never “cheat” on him. I could doll up in the hottest thing in my closet and announce I’m hitting the bar with a friend and he might give me a strange look like “alrighty then,” but he would not be concerned about me being disloyal. Not for a second. And he is right. I am loyal to him to the very core of my being, and the core of his being knows that. Now, I take my fair share of the blame for my husband slipping into this bluish beta being over the years. I am deeply saddened by how my attitude and disrespect (although I was not “aware” that I was disrespecting him–if that makes sense) has contributed to emasculating him over the years. I now realize my part in this and am making genuine efforts to realign things as much as I can. All the while I am like a dying plant withering away for lack of Vitamin Red in my life…Which I unknowingly, slowly stripped away from the love of my life. So, do you have any other advice to contribute to “helping” the process of a husband taking on more of an “alpha” persona? Resources? Females that write about this topic? Anything? Thank you.

  33. serenity says:

    @VitaminRNeeded

    Join the Forum. Lots of us women trying to work out that exact same problem there. You’ll get lots of good ideas. : )

  34. Kickboxer_Gal says:

    Athol you need to make one of those videos for husband who dont like reading. There’s this Santa video that gets sent around every year. We just have to enter their names, their desired gift and whether they have been good or bad and then Santa speaks directly to them via an email message link. Can you make one to my husband (without the Santa gear).

    You could look in the camera and say…

    Hi Michel, this is Athol from MMSL. Your wife, “Kickboxer_Gal” has contacted me to seek help with your marriage. She is unhappy and ready to cheat. I understand you don’t read so I have put my book on a podcast for you-lazy-fuck (OK maybe not the last line?).

    Athol, I’m am a volunteer radio amnouncer, I will put your book on a podcast for those lazy bastards who don’t read (and likely aren’t braniacs) for free if you could just get that initial introduction to him.

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