But The Blue Pill Tastes So Much Sweeter

Some questions from the last post…

Greenlander:  Will someone please remind me again of why I should want to get married? I’ve forgotten why I should want to give up my single life to jump through stupid hoops for sex with someone who agreed to provide it.

Athol:  The main reason to get married is to have children together. I think a stable couple is a far better arrangement for raising children than trying to do it as a non-couple. Otherwise marriage is simply a very binding agreement that isn’t a critical need for a long term sexual relationship. Marriage is primarily an agreement for legal status and wealth sharing in a family structure.

If you don’t want to have children with her, there isn’t any driving need to marry her. If you have a child, you’re on the hook for 18 years of child support one way or the other, regardless of your martial status. A lot of effort flagged as “marriage” related is actually “child raising” related.

You’re going to be jumping through hoops for sex whether your single or married. Don’t tell me picking up women in bars is something you can just throw together in 5 minutes on any given night.

Jeigh Di:  Or, as has been pointed out elsewhere, remind her that if the grocery store is closed, there’s a convenience store just around the corner who will gladly do business with you…

Athol:  And likewise by that same logic, should you become less than enticing, she can get delivery.

Don’t get me wrong, if you can reasonably prove that you are someone she should find attractive, the proof being other women are hitting on you, and she still has no interest in you, then yeah sure I don’t see why you stay.

Badger:  I have to go with Athol’s first reaction – if this hair-trigger treatment is what you can expect, why get married? Why pledge your life, fortune and sacred honor to the sword of Damocles that can decide you’ve emoted enough for her taste, thank you very much, and you should just share your problems with your drinking buddies like single guys do anyway?

Athol:  It’s not quite that hair-trigger, and it’s also going to be the same with any women you’re with too. When you’re out meeting a new woman, it’s an incredibly bad move to start being overly sensitive and emotional. You don’t bounce to a second location to tearfully talk about how dolphins getting caught in tuna nets just needs to be stopped.

I think if anything wives give you more leeway on this issue than a girl you just met will. But if you blubber it up on them and morph into a sad four-year-old sitting in the sandbox quietly banging his trucks together… the vagina is closed.

Chesterfield:  This post about Ricky Raw’s 31 days of game over at badger’s site earlier really drove this home for me.   Item # 6 Your Woman Can Never, Ever, Truly Be Your Best Friend or Closest Confidante.   (Athol: Chesterfield links to Badger, not sure where it is on Ricky’s site exactly.)

It struck me (hard) that no matter how much I long to truly open up to my wife and let her be my best friend in the whole world… I can’t allow it. If we’re friends then by definition I’m in her friend zone and that’s definitely NOT where I want to be with her. I can be her friend and confidante, but she can never truly be mine. When I accepted this I felt the last thump of my blue-pill white knight’s dying heart. I understand now why I can not draw strength from my wife without losing her respect. If she’s the strong one then which one am I? Of course I can have a bad day now and then where I need her to encourage me and help me get back on my feet, but the more strength I draw from her the more of her respect it costs me.

Athol:  I’ve long thought of Jennifer as my best friend, but having accepted the Captain / First Officer model of relating… she is certainly the person I am closest to and we are friends, but I also sense in myself a slight pulling away from her as well. I’m the Captain, thus I’m always a little more on duty than she is… or at least more on duty than I was before staring MMSL.

So I don’t think it’s the case that you can’t ever be friends. But it is the case that you can’t ever not be the Captain. Not forgetting that you can order her to take command of the ship while you’re either not available or are having some R&R. I’m pretty sure that on commercial aviation flights, the First Officer doesn’t nap the whole way while the Captain does everything. Balance people, balance.

I think having your relationship stay Functional and Productive are the two key goals to work toward, rather than trying to seek Happiness from your marriage. Being Happy is always a side effect, not something you can directly pursue. Though it seems to be a pretty common side effect of making your relationship Functional and Productive.

Once you stop talking about marriage law and family court… which are slanted toward women… and start complaining about being married and having a family as requiring effort, it all starts sounding increasingly like mourning for the fantasies of Marriage 1.0 where you were independantly wealthy and had a trophy wife.

Being quite blunt, some of the general complaining is nothing more than hamstering complaints about being men. Women get all hot and bothered thinking about having sex with winners. Winning isn’t easy though… so if you want to be a breeding male… your life isn’t going to be easy either.

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Comments

  1. wudang says:

    “You’re going to be jumping through hoops for sex whether your single or married. Don’t tell me picking up women in bars is something you can just throw together in 5 minutes on any given night.”

    There is always gay saunas:) No hoops.

  2. greenlander says:

    You’re going to be jumping through hoops for sex whether your single or married. Don’t tell me picking up women in bars is something you can just throw together in 5 minutes on any given night.

    Of course. But my failed pickup attempts don’t take half my assets, my children or enslave me with punitive support orders.

    Although I agree with you Athol, that the only reason to marry is if you want children. I personally do, which is what makes this situation so frustrating. If you don’t want children you’re almost certainly better off single.

  3. A good ROI says:

    “But my failed pickup attempts don’t take half my assets, my children or enslave me with punitive support orders.”

    ^^^ This! And that is one of the biggest threats. If you screw up and make a poor choice in choosing your wife or you do not run a tight enough interview process (blah!!) then this is exactly what you run the risk of.

  4. Harvey says:

    31 Days of Game was pulled from the site by the author.

    However, thanks to the Internet Wayback Machine, you can still view it here:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20110520162651/http://therawness.com/31-days-of-game-series/

  5. Athol Kay says:

    “Half my assets” should read “Half our joint assets” shouldn’t it?

    Married Game is easier than Single Game. How do you take a woman who was so into you she wanted to marry you, and then make her dislike you so intently she wants to shred your world and cash out?

    It’s also not failed pickups that put you on the hook for child support et al… successful hookups can do just the same.

  6. GC says:

    “Athol:  I’ve long thought of Jennifer as my best friend …. she is certainly the person I am closest to and we are friends, but I also sense in myself a slight pulling away from her as well…”. This is very discouraging to me. I want more sex/better sex to bring my husband and me and all married couples closer, but you’re saying that by following the MMSL principles you are pulling away from Jennifer, not drawing closer. I don’t see how that can be a good thing. I know that men and women are different and that wives in general want their husbands to be strong, but wives who are in it for the long haul also want to be close to their husbands in all ways, even if that means he’s vulnerable some of the time (vulnerable adult male, not whiny toddler – which wears badly on both sexes!) I know that the biological mechanisms of attraction are important, but we’re not just animals – we can make choices that favor our marriages, even when one spouse is going through a time that makes him or her less “attractive.”

  7. pdwalker says:

    Eeek! Random Gay Man Sex is sounding attractive! Eeeeeeeek!

  8. John Q Galt says:

    Ah, Athol. Your innocent hubris reminds me of the religious “Faith” of those on whom life has yet to lay a glove.

    @Athol: “How do you take a woman who was so into you she wanted to marry you, and then make her dislike you so intently she wants to shred your world and cash out?”

    It can blow at any seam. Some of her friends get divorced…and divorces, like marriages, run in clusters as women all want whatever their friends have at that moment. Or she goes through a midlife crisis/hormone burp at 40. Or empty nesting (which can happen at any time from when the kids are 10 to when they start having kids of their own). Or you lose your job, or develop a serious health issue. Or one of her parents has a health issue and gets her to thinking. Or you move halfway across the country for some reason and the old ways of relating go out the window. Or (God forbid) a child is injured, gets sick, or dies. Or a house is destroyed in a storm or a fire.

    Don’t get me wrong – you are selling a very valuable set of skills that I have not seen anywhere else. That’s why I keep coming back. If a man understands what you are trying to teach, he can handle more of the stress factors listed above – it’s analagous to plane crashes – there is rarely only one reason, but a series of issues that compound until the flight crew can’t handle it. In my case, we had a few factors and I didn’t understand how I could have headed off the crisis. It was too late by the time I recognized a problem.

    Refresh me on how old Jennifer and your kids are? Come tell us what you know when she’s in her mid 40s and your kids are teenagers. But if you want to confuse some skill and much luck with being a master….God bless you and may you retain your insoucience for the rest of your life.

  9. John Q Galt says:

    Before anyone starts with the “You must be a loser, then!” crap, I’m the same guy my wife of 16 years dumped. I’ve changed very little…but, balding and in my 40s, I have had absolutely no problem finding quality women who want me for things ranging from casual sex to marriage.

  10. Athol Kay says:

    @John Q Galt – I’m 42, Jennifer 40, the girls 15 and 13. For what it’s worth, MMSL didn’t spring up out of a blissfully easy life. I think I’ve already posted enough to that effect.

    If other women are clamoring for you… you aren’t a loser then are you. It’s the Option B “win”. Though I know you would have prefered the Option A win.

  11. John Q Galt says:

    Probably right. It still gripes me that I won’t “Rejoice in the wife of my youth.” I know you’re no longer a Christian but I think we both agree there is some pretty good pop psychology in that Book….

  12. Jaad says:

    And if you’re not going to have children together then marriage is the mother of all shit tests. I passed that test many times since I first failed it. Alas, I’ve failed it again. Lesson(s) learned.

  13. Joe_Commenter says:

    GC says “Athol: I’ve long thought of Jennifer as my best friend …. she is certainly the person I am closest to and we are friends, but I also sense in myself a slight pulling away from her as well…”. This is very discouraging to me. I want more sex/better sex to bring my husband and me and all married couples closer, but you’re saying that by following the MMSL principles you are pulling away from Jennifer, not drawing closer. I don’t see how that can be a good thing.

    Simple GC. Putting a little distance between captain and FO makes the FO have tingles for the captain. The emo distance makes a man all captainy and brings the tingles as your wife wants you. The being closer as a soulmate is more friendzone closeness. Not what men want.

  14. greenlander says:

    “Half my assets” should read “Half our joint assets” shouldn’t it?

    Perhaps you’re speaking to the situation of a man with a typical career: doing some lame job in a cubicle making $70K a year, and he marries a woman doing a similar lame job in a cubicle making a similar amount. They build their life together, buy a house together, etc. In that case their contributions are similar.

    But for a man who has real success in life, it’s a different story. What about the situation where the wife has the same lame job, but the man made millions? Should the assets still be equally divided? A guy in that category is in for a royal screwing in divorce court: he took the risk did the work to build such a path in life (that kind of money doesn’t fall from the sky), but the wife will take half and then take half of his net income after that through childamony. Meanwhile, the woman doesn’t have to work as long as the children aren’t adults and can use the money to enjoy her new life in their formal marital residence while selecting a new lover purely on the basis of tingle. The woman in the first example doesn’t have this choice: she still needs a new job.

    It’s also not failed pickups that put you on the hook for child support et al… successful hookups can do just the same.

    I’m no expert on birth control, I only have my personal experience. But I believe that condoms are 100% effective when used properly. I always use them and I always flush them personally. The guys who report broken condoms must be using old condoms or have much bigger cocks than me: I’ve never broken a condom. Wear your raincoat when it rains and you won’t get wet.

  15. Spot on in terms of the kids Athol. I would also say though, that marriage offers far more stable and successful relationships than any other form of human relationship: http://3rdmilleniummen.wordpress.com/2012/10/05/manosphere-importance-of-marriage/

  16. Aristippus says:

    Interesting information. I will say one thing though. You have to screen and observe and continually observe. You have to protect yourself. It doesn’t mean you can’t love women. But protect yourself. A lot of times women will put on a sweet act and be on their best behavior when dating. Or because you’re not facing the difficulties of life, a woman you date might simply be her pleasant “self” because it’s easy to be pleasant in pleasant circumstances. If she has a double-standard and/or unrealistic expectations or expects you to tolerate her lack of appreciation or disrespectful attitude, you won’t see this in the dating phase if you rush in too quickly and blind yourself.

    As far as money goes, I’ve seen too many people, I’m talking average, non-wealthy men, who were making more money than the wife, get suckered in. Gold-digging and being taken advantage of financially isn’t reserved just for the wealthy, as many divorced men or men who have friends or family who have been divorced already know. There are some decent women out there and there are also a lot of barracudas too. One scenario is where a formerly employed women gets married and then drops her job. Now all of a sudden the man is paying all of the expenses and if a divorce happens, the courts will not give him extra consideration for paying all of the expenses and making her comfortable. In fact, they will use this against him and all of the assets “they” supposedly accumulated (which were actually assets HE accumulated with the money he earned, while she stayed at home) will be divided up as if she pitched in financially.

    Sometimes the divorce just happens because you have two good people who simply can’t live with each other. Other times the woman cheats. Other times, the man cheats. Sometimes the woman behaves disrespectfully and does it too much and too often, and the man gets tired of it and leaves her (simply looking to get away from her and have peace). And a small percentage of the time, you have a genuine good-for-nothing man that the wife chooses to leave. The funny thing is, many times you can be a hard-working and good man, and a lot of the women out there will still not be satisfied and will disrespect and nag you no matter how much you do. So be careful guys. And make sure that your expectations, standards and requirements for behavior are as equally high (or higher) than hers. That she must measure up to your standards. She has to jump through your hoops. Especially if you’re considering marriage. Have fun and enjoy her, but never ever ever drop your standards!

  17. t says:

    Never thought I’d be quoting Kanye, but –

    If you ain’t no punk, holler ‘we want prenup!’

    I understand that this doesn’t get men off the hook for child support or alimony, but for those men who are worried about protecting pre-marital assets that they bring to the table…

    What red pill woman wouldn’t willingly sign a prenup? It’s her Final Exam before marriage.

  18. The MacNut says:

    That assumes the man has assets to protect. Many times, especially in a first marriage, the couple combined comes into a marriage with barely a pot to piss in. Most people especially in their 20s, don’t have much more than their paycheck and a rented apartment or house, and maybe a car they’re still paying on. All their other assets are usually acquired after the wedding.

    Prenups are no help there.

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