Girl Thinking About Having Coffee With Plate Spinning Ex-Boyfriend

Plate Spinning = The practice of a single guy keeping multiple women in a soft harem arrangement. Initial effort to get each woman up to speed and spinning on the end of his… er… stick… and then consistent occasional effort split between them all to keep them all up in the air for him.


From the forum… behold the hamster wheel doing this…

Sparrow:  Yesterday was…a trip. This is a bit disjointed; I’m in an emotional tailspin and just bought a bag of cookies. I could use some advice. Even if the advice is: Sparrow, you’re an idiot. And, wait, you acted like that? And, what is your SR again? Just, please, if you do think I’m being that silly, please tell me why I’m being an idiot and not just “yep. Silly birdie.”

Some background: I once dated what is commonly referred to as an asshole alpha. I (unknowingly) shit tested him into beta. I kept breaking up with him and we got back together three times in three years. To this day, I’m not sure if he’s emotionally abusive or has some kind of Cluster B issue. I think it’s a strong possibility, but I also know that, especially towards the end, I was being a bitch. After last breakup, I spent a fair amount of time apologizing because I figured out I was a bitch. Including once, memorably, on my knees. Yes, I did the whole submissive posturing thing. Apology accepted. Then I went abroad for a year (and got more religious over the period of time). Thought I was done with the cycle. During that time, my former best friend carried on an fwb situation with the fellow at the same time he was e-mailing me asking to make up.

I know I handled a lot of it badly. We started dating when I was 19. This was the second guy I ever kissed. Aside from all the emotional stuff that went on, the physical stuff (sort of sex?) was…Really Good. Ok, so I pretty much went from 0 to 500 in this relationship, and have no real basis of comparison, but as far as I can tell, sex type stuff was really good for both of us. Emotionally: good to ok to godawful. Chemistry: through the roof.

Eventually, sort of made up with the friend. She asked me to be a bridesmaid at her June wedding (she’s engaged to a different guy). *sigh* I said yes. Except, she also wants my ex boyfriend in her wedding party. The guy is a starving musician trying to make it big and currently has a harem of six, not counting the ONS. She asked me to play nice. So, Monday, we were all in the same place at the same time. I’m so much on edge that I can barely think straight, but I did my best to be friendly. Boy tries to give me (and assorted other female types) a hug before he goes; I take a step back. Boy asked if he could call me to get a cup of coffee next time he’s in town.  I said: ok.

I called later that night because I wanted to understand what his intentions were. After some phone tag, he said he missed having me as a friend in his life and would call about the coffee next time he were in town. Except…we never did well as friends. That’s one reason why we kept getting back together.

So I’m confused. Is he actually serious about the coffee? I’m a bit skeptical about the friend bit, but he’s also incurably honest. Is he trying to gloat? Be friends? Add me to the harem? Get back together? And how much are regular awesomely good sexytimes worth? I don’t know if you want to label this as, “idiot hamster can’t step away from alpha,” or “ex-stupidity,” or, “bad relationship cycles,” or “what’s the worst that could happen?,” or “men and women can’t be friends” or “Sparrow thinks about sex too much” or “get out and date other guys” or what. I’d just like to know what you guys think is going on. Help?

Athol:  Oh coffee…. why are you so delicious?

It sounds like you have a lot of attraction for him, but it never sounds like it was a good relationship with him. You can’t be his friend, because you’re attracted to him and he isn’t remotely interested in just being your friend, so it’s always going to escalate in the direction of the bedroom. You may have tested him into Beta at the end of your last try with him, but if he’s spinning six plates these days, I doubt he’s going to revert to that for you. So your relationship options are (1) A 4th round of a really bad relationship, or (2) don’t have a relationship with him.

Anyway, I’d write more, but I’ve had this song waiting in the wings for the correct post for THREE YEARS.

Oh and @ your girlfriend… having the prior (?) fuck buddy in the wedding party. Stay classy girlfriend.


  1. Revo Luzione says:

    Excellent choice of songs, sir, it says it all.

    Janie, er, Sparrow, listen well. David Lee has a lesson for you.

  2. Standard self-imposed forbidden fruit gambit.

    Turn down his request. Date other men.

  3. Sparrow, in this particular case, I don’t think “friendship” means what you think it means. He’s offering you the position of “Plate #7.”

    It might be fun, but that’s all it will ever be.

  4. Well, first, thanks Athol, for the honor.

    Yeah, I’m definitely thinking this is one case of get out of this one while you still can. This may include the wedding party as well. Life’s too short for this.

  5. I made a mental note at the video to comment upon the fact that the bride invited the guy she used to bang to the wedding, but then Athol came through, so I commented on that instead.

  6. Glad you used that song. A lot of Van Halen is Game savvy, especially the Roth years. As for this woman, she tore this guy down a notch and then he rebounded. He wants to get back with her because he’s into her and she had a bit of power over him(rejected him, betaized him, etc) that his harem girls surely don’t. He likely feels that getting back with her would taste of redemption.

  7. Sparrow, I don’t know how much it will help you if another person jumps on the wagon here, but I’ll give it a try. You are correct. Life is too short.

    Your ex-best-friend really is exactly that. Going to her wedding does absolutely NOTHING GOOD for you. There is no benefit in any way, shape, or form, to you attending the wedding. As others have pointed out, it says a lot about her wanting your mutual ex-boyfriend to attend, and none of it is good.

    As for the ex-boyfriend, yes, he is completely serious about coffee. He figures that from coffee, it’s a short step to having you on your knees again, which is seriously what he wants. Seriously. If you want to get to a better place, cut these people out of your life entirely. No facebook bullshit, NO CONTACT of any type. If they call you, hang up.

    Good luck.

  8. Kansas Fighter says:

    I think the elephant in the room is that Sparrow has some work to do on herself to raise her own sex rank/relationship rank. This relationship with the struggling Rock God is only holding you back. He has six current homes for the magic missile. The first time something goes against him he will high tail it to some other tail, maybe your friend the bride.

    One core principal of the MAP is to raise your own rank and you don’t have to put up with the BS. That’s all I’m trying to say.

  9. whatmeworry says:

    /not believing that this guy was truly ‘betaized’. That’s the hamster talking. He was almost certainly tapping others the whole time and dumped her when the flaking/shittesting ramped up.

    10 bucks says fwb-in-the-wedding-party hubby gets cuckolded within the year, if he isn’t already.

  10. Hay babe, I have excelent coffee … at home… under bed… … … … … whhops, sorry condom broke.

  11. I prefer my coffee with milk and my friends naked.

  12. But seriously I think that girl should meet him. Seven is a lucky number!

  13. Plate spinner: Hi babe what about that coffee?
    Hamster babe: Sorry, no! I consulted a person I trust and he told that I shouldn’t as it is merely a facade to get me to become yet another girl in your harem.
    Plate spinner: Well OK, then how about we go get some tea instead?
    Hamster babe: Well sure that is entirely different matter! Lets meet near your home in a minute.

  14. Plate Theory is much more than just maintaining a soft harem:

  15. Textbook Alpha Widow.

    These are the Alpha Widows – women so significantly impacted by a former Alpha (or perceptually so) lover that she’s left with an emotional imprint that even the most dutiful, loving beta-provider can never compete with. A woman doesn’t have to have been an archetypal slut in order to have difficulty in pair bonded monogamy.

    Imagine you’re the guy who hooks up with this girl when she’s 30 and thinks she’s a well adjusted ‘quality woman’ ready for marriage. And all the while she’s still wondering what became of that wonderful musician. *sigh*

  16. She asked me to be a bridesmaid at her June wedding (she’s engaged to a different guy). *sigh*

    Did the guy have anything to do with her being your former best friend? If so, the only reason to go is to tell the huband-to-be that it sure was nice of him to allow his wife-to-be to invite her former lover to the party – yes, that’s the one, talking to her now.

    Or maybe seduce the fiance?

    No, no. Both of those are wrong and are nasty, evil thoughts. Don’t go.

    As for Mr Rock Star, sure go have coffee/tea/whatever you want if you just want to have mindless, meaningless sex. Just remember that to him, it is meaningless beyond getting his rocks off with someone who had, then rejected him. That will *not* change.

    Move on, leave the ghosts of the past behind you.

  17. The girlfriend is obviously putting “former” FWB in the wedding party so they can spend some “quality time” together during all the wedding goings-on. I wonder if he groom just doesn’t know that part if her history, or is so much of a doormat as to let it happen?

  18. *nod* I’m reading and, yes, listening. I’d much rather look like an idiot online than be (more of) one IRL.
    I’m going to speak generally here, mostly.

    @Rollo, your post on the LJBF actually cleared a lot of this up in my head. Thank you. So too on the alpha widow.

    @Mitchell: I’d like to cut them out of my life. Unfortunately, we’ve got any number of friends in common and I don’t like to cause a conflict of interest.

    @Kansas Fighter. I’ve been working on the SR. Diet, exercise, etc. Current next step? Skincare plan.

    @pdwalker: Both thoughts have crossed my head. Yep, that’s exactly the reason girl is in the “former” category. She’s trying to be a friend now, so I’m willing to see what this friendship means.
    As far as seducing the fiance? To be honest, I thought about it, and if I really wanted to, I probably could. This isn’t just me being arrogant: if I let him, he’ll go out of his way to hang with me and help me out, he’s said in the past that I’m attractive, and I know my SR is higher than his fiance’s. Part of the reasons I thought about it were as much for obvious reasons as for the fact that he’s a very good person (the pre-selection doesn’t hurt any, either). Then I thought better of it.
    I don’t want to be that kind of person. So I do my best to avoid spending any one on one time with him.
    As far as the girlfriend wanting the quality time? Probably, but the fiance picked her. He’s made his bed…

    More general thoughts? First step to laying a ghost, or banishing a demon, is naming it. Thank you. Now that I know I’m being stupid, and why, I’m in a place where I can deal with it. Time to pick up the vorpal blade and grow up before the pretty’s gone.

  19. *clap clap clap*

    Nasty little thoughts are part of being human. Smile at them, laugh at your evil humour to yourself, and never, ever let yourself act on it.

    Final thoughts…
    She’s trying to be a friend now, so I’m willing to see what this friendship means.

    If the friendship ever meant anything, she wouldn’t have done what she did in the first place. If it still meant anything, she wouldn’t invited both of you to the wedding together – only you and she would have done it sooner. As it is, it stikes me as an “in your face” gesture.

  20. @Sparrow… Maybe I missed it, but how are you and plate spinner paired up in the wedding party? Are you paired up as groomsman / bridesmaid? If that was the case I would definitely run for the hills…

  21. I LOLZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The bride invites the ex FWB guy who was banging her left, right, upside and sideways to be part of her wedding party? WOW!

    I hope her new husband was cool with that? I mean the bride probably told future hubby the history and got future hubby’s okay to invite a guy she was letting use her as a sperm dumpster to be in the wedding party right? Right? I mean I know she would ask of course, just out of pure respect for her future husband.

    The Lolz!!!!!

    You should get married why?

  22. @Sparrow

    “but the fiance picked her. He’s made his bed…”


    If you have moral strength of will or character, you should tip off future hubby and spare him and their future children from the pain that you know is going to be coming down the road. If after he knows, he chooses to marry her, then he’s an idiot.

    I know you won’t do that though. Chicks would never do that. No honor and no motivation to do the right thing unless there is something in it for them. I understand. It’s no insult. Just the way you are wired.

    Maybe you have a guy friend who would understand how F’ed up this wedding situation is and he could tip off the fiance for you. Then you could have sex with the fiance guilt free. See!!!! Problem solved! Now there is something in it for you! You go grrrllll.


    Boys have penises. Girls have vaginas.

  23. Yeah – I’m being a bit of a dick. For two reasons.

    You respond well to it.

    The situation really is that gross and your hamster is spinning like mad to try to find a way to make this work for you. You’re not thinking clearly. You should steer clear of the wedding party as well. Gross.

    Alpha Widow indeed.

    Wish you all well. (really – work this out – this is crazy on parade with all of you humping and a marrying each other all over the place)

    The Lolz.

  24. Fifty bucks says she bangs the ex or makes an emotional scene at the wedding, or both.

  25. This whole scene is a joke. When I read shit like this I say to myself “maybe humans are nothing more than glorified chimps and free will is an illusion”. Sparrow shouldn’t go to the wedding, she shouldn’t ever look at this musician dude again and she should faze out her relationship with the bride to be who seems to be a real cunt. This music dude tells her that he is fucking 6 other girls and Sparrow still considers going to coffee (ie fucking) with him when for every other dude its a “no touching on the first 3 dates” policy? And then women wonder my men invented game.

    Sparrow should do the above things I listed if she were really interested in developing moral character and self respect, let alone being a good Christian women (what a joke that any women today could ever practice Christianity the way it was intended). But wait what did I just do? I put moral character, self respect and women in the same sentence? Now I’m the one being delusional.

    Just a teensy bit harsh. Sparrow was trying to figure out if she could have a friendship with a ex-boyfriend. Her attraction for him is uncontrollable, but she’s trying to wrestle her hamster to the ground and avoid a dumb entanglement.

  26. “Sparrow was trying to figure out if she could have a friendship with a ex-boyfriend.”


    What value does friendship to this gentleman offer?

    I prefer the forest over the trees.

  27. I still consider myself pretty new to the game (I’ve known of it for a few years, only been truly applying it for about one) and as I notice my value increase, I can’t help but notice the effects that it has on girls. And it’s not always positive. The “alpha widow” effect is really bad for women man.

    Sparrow, from what I gather the best solution here is to fight your urge to talk to him and to raise your sexual value. If you can raise your SMV you will get more interest from other alpha males. You say you hit the gym, that’s great. Learn how to squat and dead-lift properly and safely. Look it up on youtube, hire a personal trainer that knows what he is doing, whatever. It’s one of the best things a girl can do for her looks. Squatting regularly will give you an awesome lower body, dead lifting will give you a great lower body but will also balance your lower body with your upper body. There are a few other exercises I recommend for girls but those two are the priorities.

  28. Followed advice, not going for coffee. I can’t control what I’m attracted to, but I can and will control my response to that attraction.

    I warned the groom about the girl twice (once indirectly, once quite directly) several months before they were engaged. He ignored it.
    So, please, give me a break here?

    @Athol_Kay. Thanks for sticking up for me.
    @Thaedron. We’re not paired up. I asked for separate seating at the wedding months ago.
    @joemomma: Yep, doing that already, changed diet, and cut my dress size in half.

  29. “The girlfriend is obviously putting “former” FWB in the wedding party so they can spend some “quality time” together during all the wedding goings-on.”

    Not sure if you mean quality time with Sparrow or with the bride, but either way you’re right – this may be unseemly to older readers, but in my generation it’s above the board that engaged couples expect bridesmaids and groomsmen to get it on with each other during/after the festivities. and often arrange the parties in the hopes of stirring some extra drama into their social circles. They’re human, they want to set people up even if it turns into a big drunken disaster. Especially for destination weddings, it’s like half wedding half frat-rority mixer/GNO/slumber party.

    So yes, in my mind there’s undoubtedly an element of the bride trying to set up a rekindling b/w Sparrow and the rock and roller.

    Along with this, it’s well known that women go through lots of emotions going to other women’s weddings (when am I going to get married?? She’s not as pretty as me! etc) and that combined with alcohol creates an environment for a lot of semi-spontaneous sex between attendess. The film Wedding Crashers built itself on this phenomenon, and The Five-Year Engagement had a secondary plot of a woman who got knocked up at her sister’s engagement party.

    Like Athol says, family events with lots of emotion = brain chemicals and sexy urges.

    On joemomma and alpha widowing: a woman I dated earlier this year was really into me. I’ve been thinking about getting back in touch with her because I did enjoy her company and we connected on an intellectual level that is rare for me. However, I have no interest in sleeping with her, and I am pretty sure she’d still be very attracted to me. So I haven’t contacted her, it would just be cruel (i’ve been on the other side of that and know how it is). It is an occupational hazard of being a high-value man, but I try to manage it magnanimously.

    I don’t give the rock star that much credit though.

    Sparrow needs to get both these people out of her life entirely.

  30. “I warned the groom about the girl twice (once indirectly, once quite directly) several months before they were engaged. He ignored it.”

    Well then he’s a f’ing moron. If I may, can you elaborate on the manner of your “warnings?” I want to hear from the inner circle so I know what a woman warning me sounds like (men and women often have different concepts of “direct communication.”)

  31. If the bride is trying to rekindle any relationship between the two of us, either she wants him out her hair or she’s dumber than I thought. Come to think of it…

    Mind you, it’s been a good few months since these conversations, so I’m going to paraphrase a lot of it.
    This is the indirect warning.
    Boy, “So, can you tell me anything about the guys my girlfriend was going out with?”
    Me, “Well, you’re the first one I haven’t tried to warn her about.”
    Please note: if you are the one bright moment in a dating history filled with sleazeballs, tread very, very carefully.
    More directly?
    A little while later, after all hanging out at an activity, girl is off flirting with this guy. (The guy works there). I mention to her boyfriend, “Um, don’t want to be the one to tell you this, but about your girlfriend – ”
    Him, “I don’t want to hear it about my girlfriend.”
    I gave up.

  32. “Him, “I don’t want to hear it about my girlfriend.””

    Well you’ve definitely fulfilled your “responsibility” if you want to call it that at this point. We men thank you.

  33. Yeah he’s gotten his warning. Twice. Thanks for trying Sparrow.

  34. Another example of a direct, last-ditch effort warning:
    “Your fiance propositioned my husband last time he saw her, and flashed your best friend on Skype. She claims to be a sex addict on her blog. You’re a strong Christian and I know you don’t want to end up divorced. Hubs and I think she’ll have trouble staying faithful. She needs a lot more counseling if you still intend to marry her.”

    Him, “She’s in a good church and has a great mentor. Does Hubs want to be a groomsman?”

    Me: *facepalm*

  35. Love the line about her girlfriend at the end. Love your writing Athol!

  36. @Sparrow

    Well it sounds like you tried to tell him. Good for you!

    Seriously, a lot of people (wimminz especially – heh) would just sit back and be entertained by the unfolding drama. But it’s not really funny, especially when a couple years down the road there will likely be kids who are going to go through hell, and possibly a little paternity issue given the bride’s moral character. Sigh.

    Sparrow, I guess the only thing I have a question about is where you were relating how you had considered at one point that you could be sleeping with the fiance if you wanted and you were telling us how your sex rank is higher than the bride to be. That may all be fine and dandy, and maybe you like him because he’s a good person, an idiot to be sure, but a good person.

    Honestly, I am curious to know where those thoughts come from? Like what is the line of reasoning for thinking that? Trying to understand. It’s good that you decided that that was not a very moral choice to make and you talked yourself out of it, but there was some seed or genesis in you where you had a conversation with yourself about doing it.

    Where did that come from? Was it to get back at the bride for sleeping with the musician guy who maybe you felt was “yours” and so you were mad at your “friend” the bride?

    If so, that is very interesting. Because here is a guy who is sleeping with or dating a lot of chicks, including the bride to be, and in your mind you were maybe still thinking of him as yours? Again, alpha widow?

    I like you. You can be in my harem you naughty girl. First you have to sign a non-disclosure agreement then I will send my helicopter to pick you up. (Giggity)

    The LoLZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  37. @Badger

    “but in my generation it’s above the board that engaged couples expect bridesmaids and groomsmen to get it on with each other during/after the festivities. and often arrange the parties in the hopes of stirring some extra drama into their social circles.”

    Interesting and Lolz worthy. It seems as time goes on people have less and less ability to recognize that what they do with their private parts have consequences. I like it! Since I do not intend to marry again it is a plus for me that every woman feel as free and liberated with herself, especially her vagina, as possible!

    [I still have my rules – I don’t fool with married ladies, chicks that say they have a boyfriend, etc. I have to look myself in the mirror each morning. YMMV.]

    Side Note directed at no one in particular: I was on a forum I visit – completely and utterly unrelated to anything about relationships. (Hunting and stuff.)

    In the general conversation area an older guy asked about why younger guys aren’t committing to women these days. First, it was interesting that the topic even came up or came to mind to ask about. Second, I was pleasantly surprised at the red pill responses from the young fellows. (Guys from deep woods wild Alabama, or the rural parts of Wisconsin – not just city guys.)

    The early twenty-something guys basically told the older guys, “We’d be willing, but at this time we’re not buying (or believing) what they’re trying to sell us…”

    One guy commented that “cheating” among women in his age range (21-25) had become so rampant that it was pretty much a given that it was going to happen, so taking any of the girls seriously as GF or marriage material was just totally off the table and would be completely foolish.

    Many of the responders personal experiences were that they got burned once after thinking they had found the “special one”, not like other girls, then after getting burned they figured out the falsehood of the snowflake routine on their own and proceeded to respond accordingly in future interactions with women. They unplugged a bit on their own and were not willing to take women seriously anymore. Boo-Yah!

    Cross-reference the anecdotes (and I realize it’s just a few anecdotes but the fact that they, and the conversation itself, popped up on a site about hunting was interesting) with Dalrock’s recent chart on the unmarrieds starting to pile up in certain age brackets, and other trends we discuss, and I think we have very interesting and Lolz worthy days ahead.

    What was that Mentu said? “I don’t want to marry her, I’m just waiting for my turn…”

    If you’re not wanting to get married, none of the above should be a concern to you at all. Stop screening chicks based on if they would have good GF or wife qualities and just screen them based on if they pass the boner test and are fun to hang with without being too psycho or having too many STDs. That’s all the requirements they need to meet. Opens up your potential dating pool quite a bit. Don’t lament that women are acting like “sluts” and enjoy the bounty as the fish willingly leap into your net!

    With our new norms or the new normal it seems we’re on a runaway freight train down a steep mountain to even more debauchery. Awesome!


  38. @ZL1X1. This wedding has filled up my drama quotient for the year. Life was mostly quiet – then this.

    Why did I think that way? Some of it was aimed at the bride, some of it was recognition that the groom is a pretty cool guy. I’m also sad, partly because she’s bi-polar and has yet to accept responsibility for most of her actions while manic, and partly because I see this whole thing likely to explode in 3-7 years. Kids are probably not going to be an issue for this couple due to bride’s meds.

    Why was I angry with the bride? She lied about her attraction to the guy for the entire time I was dating him. “Oh, the flirting? The hanging out one on one? We’re just friends. You trust me, right?” Then, after acting on that attraction, telling me details which I had clearly said I didn’t want to know. Guy was my ex, not my property. It’s the lying and blatant disrespect that got to me.

    Why the groom? I respect him quite a bit, and can talk to him. He’s extremely kind without being a doormat. If he hadn’t been involved with his fiance when we met, he would have been interested in me. He said as much the other night.
    So I’m avoiding any one one time or conversations as best as I can.

    Awww, you’re so sweet for thinking about me! Thanks, but harem life doesn’t suit me. Go enjoy the rest of the fish in the sea.

  39. @Sparrow

    I’ll save you a spot. :-P

    Well it certainly does sounds like the drama quota is filled up. Wow, bi-polar to boot. I’ll assume he knows about that too. I would just like to say that the groom is officially a certified dumb ass.

    He may be a “good” guy and all but he has major problems of his own and we can see the train wreck to come. Or, maybe love really will conquer all and it will be like a fairy tale come true! Unicorns and Rainbows for everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    He has problems like…

    No ability to judge character and make intelligent decisions about his future. (Sometimes you have to learn the hard way – [I sheepishly raise my hand.]) Some men learn by reading, some by watching what others do, some just have to step up and piss on the electric fence for themselves.

    He is a doormat or he just doesn’t take the whole thing seriously. If he’s tolerating her intolerable behavior like this, he’s being a doormat. He’s a vagina beggar who (barf) probably feels “lucky” he found such a swell gal to get hitched to. I don’t know how else to explain it other than he seems not to have an ounce of pride in himself or very little appreciation of his own worth.

    He’s got his head up his butt or in the sand. Yeah, when in “lurv” we’ve all had on the rose colored glasses, but day-umm! He’s wearing welders goggles here, heh.

    He’s getting ready to get married and telling you just the other night that if he wasn’t engaged to crazy bi-polar drama chick he would be interested in you. If I were you I would not be flattered by that admission. Creeped out would be a more productive reaction for you. I’m seeing that interaction as a mark of poor character on his part. The old phrase – “If they’ll do it with you, they’ll do it to you comes to mind…” He’s just like musician dude only dumber. Sounds like just like musician dude, he’s sending out exploratory probes to see if he can get something going with you.

    You’ll have your revenge or moment of schadenfreude when they blow apart. Just a shame they are going to go through it. A bigger shame if they do have kids involved when it happens. It just gets so much uglier.

    Seek out a new social circle. These people all sound like drama addicts. It might be fun to watch on occasion but it will drag you down and wear you out. You also got to see firsthand that men and women can’t be friends as evidenced by the crock of bull the bride fed you about just being friends with musician dude. When Penis and Vagina are involved, lying, deception and betrayal are part and parcel of the game. “Friend” or no, the power of P or V is the one ring to rule them all.

    Hey, did I tell you about my bear skin rug and river stone fireplace? It’s quite nice. Safe, sexy and warm. We can sit by the fire, have a glass of wine and talk this over. Just talk. I promise.

    The LOlz!!!!!!!!!!

    Well take care. Let us know if anything extraordinarily R-Tarded happens at the wedding. I’m betting her bachelorette party will be something reality TV worthy. Cheers!

  40. @ZLX1. How am I supposed to fit in the helicopter with all the other girls you have there? Oh, you want me to sit there? While I’d be able to admire the scenery, I don’t think I’m suited for that kind of ride. ;)

    On the other hand, was too busy for coffee. Intend to keep being too busy. I know I’m being a bit of a coward, but I’d rather avoid a confrontation. Nothing good would come of it. I’m doing my best to get a clue now, because I’d like to be someone worth dating at the end of all this. Even if getting a clue was due to some time spent burning my hand on the hot stove.

    Groom is a good guy, just blinded by the dopamine rush. I wouldn’t call him “creepy.” Maybe clueless? Creepy is reserved for guys that actually scare me and/or stalk me. Flattered isn’t the right word for what I’m feeling, exactly. Mostly, I feel like I’m watching the train of karma start to crash and can’t do much to stop it. I already tried. Three times now. Just sad for the both of them.

    Bachelorette party is supposed to be a spa day. It’s turning into a drama fest, but I said I’d be a bridesmaid. So I’m going to honor my word and will continue acting as peacemaker.

    The rug and wine sound nice, but I’ve got no interest in getting anywhere near that carousel again.

  41. Bachelorette party is supposed to be a spa day. It’s turning into a drama fest, but I said I’d be a bridesmaid. So I’m going to honor my word and will continue acting as peacemaker.


    With your new red pill knowledge, and your eyes wide open, I’d say the wedding will be an interesting event for you. You will be able to see things you’d never have realized or noticed before. You don’t have to insert yourself into the drama, just be the audience. Watch the other girls and your friend and see how it all plays out. Enjoy the amusement as you realize that you are now above that sort of thing.

    You don’t have to be a peacemaker (that’s inserting yourself into the drama). Don’t be a shit disturber, just enjoy the show. You’ve already done your part.

    Have a good time.

  42. @Sparrow

    The other chicks have to ride in a cargo net slung under the chopper. A little trick from the Army. You’ll be right beside me and I might even let you take control of the stick. (Hey now!)

    I used the word “creepy” on purpose to see how you would react to it in reference to him. Creepy is generally used by women to describe men they do not find attractive. For example, If a guy they find attractive sends them a flirty text – it’s not creepy. If a guy they do NOT find attractive sends them a flirty text – he’s creepy and a stalker. It seems you are attracted to him, but you recognize he’s just as bad news as musician dude in his own way. That’s good that you can see that.

    I’m sure you are someone worth dating. You learned a lot here with this whole episode. You are correct, you can’t control attraction itself but you can control your behavior and use your smarts to keep away from situations and people that are going to result in bad outcomes for you before you get in the middle of it and getting out becomes harder and harder. People like the crew you describe, who are constantly in a shit storm of drama, don’t really care about you or what happens to you. In fact, they seem to really thrive on bad or embarrassing things happening to you so they get a little rush out of watching you take a hit or talking about it, or even creating situations that you might get caught up in.

    There are better people out there to spend your time with. But here is the catch. Love of drama can be contagious. We are all susceptible to it. Hence, 99% of TV shows and books. You almost need to detox from them in some respects. When you get around people who are “normal”, which is a relative term, or at least mostly drama free, they might seem rather bland to you at first. Unless the only interest they have is making toothpick sculptures, it’s not them, it’s you being slightly addicted to the drama people and needing to get used to what it feels like to be around calm, well adjusted people.

    Same thing goes for your choice in guys or a man’s choice in women. In my younger days I was very much into chicks with high drama potential. When I dated a woman that was not that way I found her kind of boring and felt something missing. It wasn’t her. It was me. Now, having had my fill and taken my lumps along the way, I very much appreciate a calm woman without a lot of garbage going on. When I encounter a drama queen I have no patience for it and really no interest in it. It’s not exciting, stimulating for fun to me anymore. It’s exhausting and annoying more than anything else. (Unless she has a really nice ass and perfect tits, then I can hang on for a few weeks.)

    I like chocolate. A lot. I can’t help it. However, I can say no thanks to a slice of chocolate cake, even a really awesome looking slice, because I know it’s bad for me.

    Oh, totally forgot to ask: What is time frame from when the bride stopped banging the musician guy to when she started getting engaged to Mr. Clueless? Maybe you said earlier but I missed it.

  43. Pdwalker, I’m already laughing. Bride just posted an article talking about male/female friendships, and how they don’t work out due to attraction. Then she wondered if she should rethink her friendships.

    ZLX1, promises, promises.

    In my case, creepy is reserved for the guy who stalked me. Unless a guy hits that point, not creepy.
    Most of my friends are a lot saner. They just don’t make for good stories.

    Time frame for bride? About a year and a half. I don’t think I’d mentioned the time, come to think of it.


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