Why She’s Silent About Why She’s Divorcing

A woman Jennifer knows is divorcing. Being a busybody that likes sticking his nose in, and relationships generally being my pet interest…

Athol:  “Why is she divorcing?”

Jennifer: “Don’t know. All I know is that she’s divorcing.”

Athol:  “She isn’t blaming him for anything?”

Jennifer: “No, just keeping it all very quiet.”

Athol: “She cheated then.”

Jennifer: “Huh? What makes you say that?”

Athol: “If he was doing anything wrong, she would have told everyone in the world what it was. Which means she did something wrong… and it’s over. So he caught her cheating.”

Jennifer: “Wow that’s a bit of a leap. Just because she isn’t running him down doesn’t mean she cheated.”

Athol: “Can I have lunch with her then?”

Jennifer: “$%^& NO!”

Athol: “Why?”

Jennifer: “Okay so she must have cheated.”

Athol: “Exactly.”

Jennifer: “Yeah yeah.”

 

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Comments

  1. Dasugo says:

    Why cant you have lunch with her? it would be good to get perspective on why the marriage is over.

  2. Michael maier says:

    Is this a repeat post? I could have sworn I read you saying this before.

  3. VH says:

    Interesting. Usually I just say “it just didn’t work out” whether they or I were the instigator. I wouldn’t want to talk about it either way, unless I was with a close friend.

  4. pdwalker says:

    Because if she is a cheater, she’s capable of doing it again.

  5. taterearl says:

    Heh…it’s funny when you can convince women that you are right by using their intuition against them.

  6. Candice says:

    They may have an agreement not to make their marrige breakdown public and thus maintain their dignity among friends and relatives. One of them may be gay. She may not wish to hurt her kids by saying hurtful things about their father. It’s best not to assume anything.

  7. taterearl says:

    She’s hurting the kids by getting divorced much more than saying anything bad about the father.

    And no matter how much you try to keep a divorce under wraps, it’ll come up as to why they are divorcing.

    Athol is right…if the guy had done anything wrong she’d be screaming from the rooftops. The support system would come in and she’d be comforted. Women either go quiet when they are in the wrong….or blame the guy for making them do the wrong thing.

  8. Alpha_BeatSpectrum says:

    Well she probably cheated cause she was unhaaaaaapy sooo, its still the poor beta saps fault.

  9. Rico says:

    “They may have an agreement not to make their marrige breakdown public and thus maintain their dignity among friends and relatives. ”

    Sounds like what one of my best friends said when his marriage crumbled.

    A couple of years later the truth came out – she cheated.

  10. whatmeworry says:

    Spot on.
    Another possibility…..he came out of the closet.

  11. taterearl says:

    He came out of the closet…I give that a less than 1% probability. Women have better gaydar than men and unless the guy is a public peter puffer she would probably stick through it because she didn’t have any other options.

  12. GC says:

    I’m with Candice – it’s possible that she wants to handle things in a dignified manner. Not certain, but possible. Some people still try to do what’s best for others, even in very difficult situations.

  13. Rich says:

    Damn it hurts when orange juice shoots out of my nose…

  14. Serenity says:

    Sorry, Athol, way wrong on this. It’s obvious to anyone with eyes that he was low desire and wasn’t giving her the sex she wanted. She doesn’t want to publicly humiliate him or have people think she’s so much of a loser that her own husband doesn’t desire her. I’m really surprised that you didn’t see this. lol

    We all bring our own filters to every situation.

  15. RedPillWifey says:

    There are other scenarios, but Athol’s assumption is probably correct 90% of the time.

  16. Most of the women are like, “no, she didn’t cheat, he must be gay or something.” Team Woman to the rescue.

  17. Karen says:

    “She’s hurting the kids by getting divorced much more than saying anything bad about the father.”

    So perhaps your preference is she stays married to the kids father and says bad things about him?

    Impossible as it is to believe there are women who don’t fit the sweeping bitter generalizations of your broad paintbrush. She could be dignified, have class and truly prefer not to smear the children’s father. She could be in shock and unable to articulate anything, and she could be experiencing shame for the failure of her marriage and not want to discuss it. She could be co-dependent; co-dependents are usually the last to divorce, it’s a shock for everyone and then they keep their mouth shut as they are still “protecting” the other party. And, she could have gotten caught in an affair. But, leaping to the ‘manospheres’ – one size fits all” blame schtick gets tiring and ignorant.

  18. Serenity says:

    @RedPillWifey I agree with you. Given Athol’s line of work, he sees a whole lot of situations and has great insight. I was being mostly tongue-in-cheek, but I do also think that we all have filters through which we view reality.

    No one knows the history of this couple’s relationship. I think the same thing when I hear of a guy who has cheated on his wife. Definitely not right, but…. How many years did she spend refusing him? How much did he try to get her to see that things weren’t working for him? Did she care? Relationships are complex, and I think when we jump to simplistic conclusions, we do people a dis-service.

    Not that Athol usually tends to do that.

  19. taterearl says:

    She’s probably divorcing him because she is way too satisfied by him and just can’t handle all the joy in her life.

    That’s about as plausible as the gay angle.

  20. Anonymous age 70 says:

    From 1984 till 1993, I supplied no-fee counseling to an estimated 1,600+ men involving divorce issues, and also suicide counseling.

    I was not like the women who counsel women. I was very judgemental with men, because the male world is judgemental, so it is not right to give men a pass for stupid when they need solid advice.

    Some men were adulterers. Some were violent. Some were boorish. But, most American men are awfully beta, and most divorce did not involve male misbehavior at all, contrary to common myths.

    My observation was that most divorces filed in the absence of obvious male misconduct virtually 100% involved female adultery. Period. There is no such thing as women “wanting to find themselves,” nor “needing space.” Those are code words for, “I found a guy who is a better lover and it would be nice if you dropped dead.” And, the divorce was not filed before she slept with the other man.

    In a few cases, I worked with the woman involved, and knew who the other man was. But, the cuckolded man would tell me, “No, I don’t think she has another man. She is not that way. I don’t understand what her problem is.” Heh, heh.

  21. RedPillWifey says:

    @Serenity Most definitely. I find myself doing the same thing. The idea that a man who cheats is just an awful, evil person and his wife did nothing to deserve that was very blue-pill ingrained in me, but now when I hear those stories, I wonder…

  22. Milf in Training says:

    taterearl, gaydar can be notoriously inaccurate.

    I know mine was … and the same went from lots of our mutual friends, including some who knew him for decades. Including some who were gay themselves. My ex hid it well.

    But you notice, I’m not silent. I on’t shout about why I’m divorced from the rooftops, but if someone asks, I tell them.

  23. @Karen

    “But, leaping to the ‘manospheres’ – one size fits all” blame schtick gets tiring and ignorant.” Here’s a novel idea, let’s go back to the previous schtick… it’s all the man’s fault. It’s all so nice and comfortable when there’s a handy man to blame – no need for critical thinking, a particular ideology is upheld, and there’s also no need to break out of a 50 (or so) year rut. Yeah, let’s do that and watch marriage and committed relationships continue to rot from the cancerous ideology that always blames men.

  24. enlightened1 says:

    Milf in training & Serenity- Thank you for your intelligent and thoughtful responses. Too often on these blogs one must wade through the bitter male commentary of “it’s always her fault,” or, “if she gets a divorce she doesn’t care about the children” and my personal favorite, “all women are alike.” For the most part I keep silent as these vitriolic men are suffering from their failed relationships and still haven’t learned about accountability and their part in their relationship failure. I also kept silent during and after my divorce. As a mother I will do whatever it takes to protect my children and revealing that my ex is gay would be very damaging to my teen boys at this point in their lives. That information would be shattering and cause confusion and doubts about themselves. And anyway, it’s not why we divorced-but it did contribute! :)
    Please take note all you gay doubters; men who are gay who get married are heavily invested in looking straight and no one finding out. They are frequently leaders in church groups and harshly anti-gay themselves. WARNING: My gay ex is out there going to christian singles groups and making a lot of noise about his un-holy ex who divorced him. He will not have sex with you before you get married because he is a Godly man…..and, um…..he will have the barest minimum sex with you after…..and, it will somehow be your fault.

  25. Serenity says:

    @enlightened1 A lot of people in pain. I think we all tend to lash out at the most convenient targets. I would say that most of us reading Athol’s blog are here because of problems in our marriages/LTR’s, and have a great deal of anger.

    Sorry to hear of your hurt and your children’s. Especially sorry to hear that your ex is using Christianity as a vehicle for deception.

    Have you considered joining the Forum? Members there tend to be less harsh and more compassionate than those commenting on the blog itself.

  26. Badger says:

    Oh for crying out loud, the comments are like a parody of a Spearhead post – the women of the brood coming up with any, any possible plausible deniability scenario to take the onus off the woman’s philandering. What really nails it for me is how even Jennifer – a sweet, honest, reasonable lady – couldn’t admit the fact of the matter that the lady in question had done wrong until Athol pulled a Jedi mind prick on her.

    It would be tragic if it wasn’t so predictable.

  27. enlightened1 says:

    The Private Man, Badger et al,
    So, how does it feel to continue to be the victim? Is it empowering? I understand your anger at feminism. Many of us women are angry at what we have been robbed of too. But, blaming all women is polarizing and weakens your arguments. Plus, you sound stupid-do you even read the comments? Let’s try a new ideology; How about men take responsibility for the emotional, physical, spiritual health of their relationships, be captains, set standards in their homes for good behavior and quit blaming women. But wait….all men are alike and if we examine history through literature it started with Adam in the garden blaming Eve for giving him the fruit, oh! and then he blamed God for giving him the women. This has been going on a while….no wonder we had a feminist movement. Yuck.

  28. enlightened1 says:

    Serenity,

    Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll check it out. I’ve been studying divorce, feminism and religion in juxtapose for awhile and just recently started surfing the different manosphere blogs and it is fascinating. It could actually result in a new positive ideology if the men could distinguish feminism as a philosophy from women in particular. It’s encouraging that blogs like Athol’s are leading men and women toward being accountable.

  29. taterearl says:

    Occam’s razor ladies. When she doesn’t seek comfort through talking which is how you ladies deal with a big issues, then it is probably on her that something went down.

    Until the day women leave their man because he is secretly gay becomes more common than women leaving their man because she cheated with someone of the opposite sex…I’m going with the lady cheating angle. But if a statistically insignificant scenario keeps you warm at night…by all means believe it.

  30. dhurka says:

    This is quite funny to me. All these ladies are offended because some men, in some diverse locations around the world, are judging a woman who they have never met. What a perfect demonstration of the team woman concept. The only thing we can say about her is that she is divorcing. That is not a good thing and it should be judged harshly in the absence of mitigating factors. But instead the ladies are rushing to think up all the less likely scenarios where the man is to blame.

    There is a 90% plus chance that this is either a frivorce or a cheating wife. Given the propensity of women to badmouth ex husbands I find the chances that this is mostly his fault to be vanishingly small. But still, no man you don’t know can judge a woman you don’t know ever. Otherwise those men are being victims and stupid and just like the feminists. This is exactly why men tend to equate feminism with all women.

  31. taterearl says:

    “But wait….all men are alike and if we examine history through literature it started with Adam in the garden blaming Eve for giving him the fruit, oh! and then he blamed God for giving him the women. ”

    I noticed you conveniently forgot that Eve blamed the serpent for taking a bite of the apple. But in case you didn’t notice…The devil (or whomever else a person blames for their wrongdoings) doesn’t fly with God’s judgement. God was fair…we all got into a muck, but he punished accordingly. Eve listened to the devil over God, Adam listened to Eve over God. Adam was a beta chump and look where that got us. That’s why a man has to lead a woman away from the serpents of life.

  32. 2manypasswords says:

    I’m not convinced Jennifer’s friend really cheated. With most women, if a friend of theirs was divorcing & they were telling their husband about it, I think they would say something more like “OMG!!! Velma cheated on Shaggy & now they’re getting divorced!! I hope they don’t get nasty about this court, otherwise Scooby will need canine counseling for the rest of his life! If you ever cheat on me, you better hope I don’t find out about it!!”

  33. enlightened1 says:

    tatarearl-
    Glad you brought that up! :) I didn’t mention it because I thought it would be too provocative for you; You’re right, Eve blamed the serpent because she was deceived. She believed what the serpent told her over what God told her. She switched God’s. Adam was not deceived. He was just plain disobedient. He took the easy road and through Eve under the bus blaming her for his own lack of leadership. The whole earth was cursed because of his actions or inactions (sound familiar?). The curse on Eve was to be subject to her husband and to have pain in childbirth; which leads one to believe that prior to this they were co-rulers of equality in the garden.
    God does not punish. He is not fair; he is just. We are not punished for our sins; we are punished by them. And yes, I agree. A wise man will lead his mate away from snares.

  34. enlightened1 says:

    Dhurka-

    Eh hem….your “manosphere biased ignorance” (MBI) is showing! Hmm… I have decided to create my own acronyms as with the frequency of the ignorance I’m going to need them! Clarification: There is not one post here blaming the man for anything. Nor is anyone saying she didn’t cheat. Neither are any of us women holding hands and singing Kumbaya. The whole point of the post was humorous in that “the woman” is silent and Athol said “she cheated” and Jennifer said “that was a leap.” I don’t believe Jennifer ever conceded, she just wisely “kept her mouth shut” (Yeah, yeah), so Athol wouldn’t insist on taking the woman out to lunch! We just plain don’t have any information to go on. But, for sure, let’s hang her by her thumbs because she is a woman and she’s getting a divorce therefor ALL woman are cheaters. Because A + C = F. BTW Athol – you HAVE to take her to lunch now or at least encourage Jennifer to do some espionage work! Come on! What do you have to lose? All these men here have already convicted her. Of course if it turns out she didn’t cheat then she will just be an anomaly. :)

  35. dhurka says:

    Enlightened –

    I will happily admit to being biased. I do attempt to be rational but like everyone often fail. However it is entirely rational to be biased against women. With the laws the way they are I only have to be wrong about one woman once, to have my life ruined. In my everyday life I can’t safely give women the benefit of the doubt, otherwise I will be wrong sometimes and the consequences could be disastrous for me. Therefore being biased against women is an entirely rational and logical defense mechanism. Being wrong once has already cost me about six years of hard work. One more mistake and I’ll be homeless and eating dog food.

  36. dhurka says:

    Oh and by the way, I still think the dynamic of this thread is pretty funny. Come on admit it. The chances that the man was gay is much smaller than the chance that she cheated. The chances that the man was the major problem is small also considering the tendency of women to throw the man under the bus with gossip even when he has done nothing major wrong.

    I have never in my life heard women propose these sort of far-fetched scenarios in defense of a man. Yes there is a chance you are right. But there is certainly a team woman dynamic going on here – even if you are right. Us manoshere men do have an undeniable team man dynamic. We learned from the masters and it makes our sphere stronger. It helps keep us (me) sane. I’d rather be laughing about it than getting angry. Isn’t that what you would prefer.

  37. Peregrine John says:

    Heh. Bluffs are for calling. Well done, Athol.

  38. Sparrow says:

    At the moment, all the conclusions drawn are based on past experiences and extrapolation. While the experience is valuable, based on the data given about this woman (got a divorce, won’t give reasons) you’re immediately jumping to an assumption.
    Seems a bit premature.
    Yes, I am female. So if you want to judge me for sticking up for the lady in the post, you may. All I want to do is point out that jumping to conclusions in the absence of hard data is a bit much and give a possible reason. That, and any number of readers seem to view this nameless woman as a substitute for the woman who has hurt them or a friend of theirs and judge her as a representative of That Witch Who Hurt Them.

    An alternative explanation that may be true? Pride. She doesn’t want to be seen as emotionally vulnerable by everyone around her and so won’t show that she’s hurting.

  39. Charles says:

    In declaring that a divorcee who is silent about the reasons for her divorce has cheated, Athol is proffering a reliable heuristic – that is, a rule of thumb that works. It takes more than one divorcee keeping her mouth shut about her gay ex to make the rule unreliable. The rule isn’t a universal statement, but it is a good generalization.

    And honestly, how many women divorced from their gay husbands really keep their mouths shut about it? How many cheating ex-wives will turn up on this thread and say that they cheated? For that matter, how many divorced women will say, “I blame myself,” at all? That last question is part of Athol’s main point, and why his proffered heuristic works – women don’t blame themselves as a general rule, they leave that to men.

  40. MrHappyHat says:

    I’d REEEEEEEAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLYYYY like to see a follow-up post with the real reason for the divorce.

  41. Alpha_BeatSpectrum says:

    Erm…. I’m pretty sure Adam and Eve was a fairy tale…

  42. @alphabeat: What makes you so sure?

  43. Athol Kay says:

    @Alpha Mission – The science is pretty settled on that question.

  44. Peregrine John says:

    Either way, leaving out half of the “moral of the story” is pretty lame – *especially* if it’s a fable.

  45. I’ve heard evolutionists say that there must have been one man and one woman that propagated the human race. That must be what you’re talking about

  46. Charles says:

    There is a mitochondrial Eve and a y-chromosomal Adam, but, as I understand it, they did not live during the same millenium.

  47. Athol Kay says:

    @Alpha Mission Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#Evidence_from_molecular_biology and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolutionary_genetics

    This is something that scientists can readily observe *now*. If you want to believe in one man one woman plonked on the earth to fill it up with people, you have to ignore foundational principles of multiple scientific fields to do so.

  48. enlightened1 says:

    Seriously….you’re using wikipedia? Tell me you’re not doing that? Academician are throwing up in their mouths. There is so much evidence to the contrary for mitochondrial DNA. Evolution is a faith based hypothesis. Although being an atheist requires a lot of faith. :)

  49. @Athol: Assertions built on assumptions. The math world doesn’t tolerate that kind of methodology, and neither should the science world.

  50. Athol Kay says:

    @Alpha Mission and Enlightned1: Just so we’re clear, my writing is ultimately based on the Theory of Evolution and much of the underpinning of Game in a general sense springs from Evolutionary Psychology. My writing doesn’t make any sense without it. As everything I write about is assertions built on assumptions and potentially causes throwing up in your mouth… I do wonder why you bother wasting your time with it.

    I do know the woman in question in the post. GNO Queen.

  51. Peregrine John says:

    But it does provide a way, which apparently works, to hijack a thread and change the subject.

  52. @Athol: The manosphere brings back to light and confirms what the Bible has said all along about men and women. I reasonably get offended when some random dude goes for a sucker punch about my worldview. Of course I’m going to say something about it.

  53. Athol Kay says:

    @Alpha Mission: I’m not some random dude, this is my house. Enough.

  54. enlightened1 says:

    No problems with your views on atheism or evolutionary biology. I understand it’s your philosophical basis. I do cringe when people site wikipedia. Further; I don’t believe Evolutionary Psychology excludes other world views. You have your particular lens and it has never been a waste of my time; on the contrary it has always been enlightening and I enjoy what you contribute to my own philosophical explorations. I am not taking umbrage with your philosophies. This IS your house and I enjoy being a guest here but, if you knew how they published wikipedia articles and the standards for publication you might pause before sighting them.

  55. @Athol: I wasn’t talking about you. I was talking about alphabetaspectrum.

  56. Peregrine John says:

    Citing. You’re citing them. Site is a noun, a location, and not a verb. Sight is an ability or, as a verb, to use the ability. To cite is to make reference to something.

    Oy.

  57. enlightened1 says:

    LOL! If my kids saw this they’d laugh themselves silly! I too am a grammar cop and only last week I used poles instead of polls!! Sheesh. Thanks for the humility check.

  58. Andrew not the Saint says:

    Man you people are all friggin stupid. Just kidding, not that stupid… :)

    This post tells much more about Jennifer than about her friend

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